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Posted: 9/1/2001 2:26:48 PM EDT
I caught the end of a video where some investigators pull out a scorched rifle frame from the rubble. It is obviously a scoped Rem 700 bolt action. Did they show anything else yet? I know that they "claim" that there was a machine gun. I won't believe it until I see it. If not, 150 rounds from a bolt action would be like a new world record or something. Beck probably got a heart attack from working the bolt so fast. So far it looks like the only fully automatic weapons used in the shootout was from the BATF. I have a feeling that Beck was hit and wounded during the exchange. And bled to death or was unconscious before the fire, that's why no one came out.
Link Posted: 9/1/2001 2:35:07 PM EDT
I saw the pic. The agent was holding it for the cameras like "See we told you he had guns and was a very bad, bad man" I watched everything even before the fire started. When the news lady said "They threw in more teargas and you can see the smoke" I really started watching. I am not very bright but new right away that tear gas does not give off black smoke like burning carpet does. This was from the upstairs window. Not once was it mentioned that anyone heard ammo igniting. In Rapid City,SD 3yrs ago this spring a huge gun shop burned. People said you could hear ammo popping and ruptured cases were landing several blocks away. Guess his stockpile wasn't big enough.
Link Posted: 9/1/2001 2:50:41 PM EDT
cases landing several blocks away??? I've thrown 22lr, 308, 8mm etc into a fire and all it does it pop. Might move a few inches. Blocks??? WTF.
Link Posted: 9/1/2001 2:54:20 PM EDT
"Deeley said authorities have found at least four firearms and "scores of magazines for a variety of weapons, which makes them reasonably sure they're going to find more weapons." Four... They are "reasonably sure"... How anyone can defend these people and their actions defies understanding.
Link Posted: 9/1/2001 3:31:31 PM EDT
"scores of magazines for a variety of weapons...." Wow, they actually said "magazines" instead of clips.
Link Posted: 9/1/2001 3:46:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2001 3:46:07 PM EDT by X--Kill]
Ohhhhhhhhhhhh I feel like such a bad criminal now.
Link Posted: 9/1/2001 7:18:06 PM EDT
He was a "convicted" felon, right??
Link Posted: 9/1/2001 7:31:45 PM EDT
7- Did not see it for myself just heresay. The local news showed ruptured cases laying on the street on the evening news. Do not know how far away these were from the building as they did not show a shot of casing in relation to building. A couple of people told me there were casings that far away so am only repeating. Thousands of rounds went up so don't know if something else blew these out of the building or what.
Link Posted: 9/1/2001 7:33:14 PM EDT
My local news said the charred corpse was found laying on top of an "assault weapon". And in my case, I have scores of magazines for EACH of my SUR's.
Link Posted: 9/1/2001 7:34:49 PM EDT
he fired on police. Chances are most of us innocent people don't fire at police, we just say "fuck off, NO you can't see my guns"
Link Posted: 9/1/2001 8:05:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By platform389: "Deeley said authorities have found at least four firearms and "scores of magazines for a variety of weapons, which makes them reasonably sure they're going to find more weapons." Four... They are "reasonably sure"... How anyone can defend these people and their actions defies understanding.
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Possession of one is a felony for this guy. That's enough to justify service of a felony warrant on the guy (PC for the warrant evidently existed, from what I have seen, and certainly from looking at the events that unfolded). He should get a pass 'cause he likes firearms? That's bullsh*t. You and I live by the same rules, like it or not. I see nothing wrong with LE doing their job and I certainly would not defend a convicted felon, apparently continuing his criminal carreer, who fires on and kills someone trying to do that job. We should choose our fights wisely.
Link Posted: 9/1/2001 10:26:40 PM EDT
They just released more info on the news. 4 guns found... 2 pistols... 1 shotgun... 1 bolt action...The only gun I've seen on video BTW... and a bunch of assault rifles??? wait a minute..2+1+1=4...something doesn't add up here? Where are these machine guns mentioned in every news report? And the words "ARSENAL" and "BECK STARTED THE FIRE" always lead these stories. I am not going to be picking one side or the other until I get the whole story. If Beck was a felon, then F'm. If he was being persecuted by the ATF then...?
Link Posted: 9/1/2001 11:55:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Sodie: I am not going to be picking one side or the other until I get the whole story. If Beck was a felon, then F'm. If he was being persecuted by the ATF then...?
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That's the approach I'm taking. However, I still have to wonder what the BATF was even doing there. Give it some time. The real story will come out. At this point, I hope he truly was a felon/scumbag. That way, the evidence shows that ownership prohibition doesn't work on criminals, thus all the more reason for law abiding folks to have access to a means of self defense. But if it's more BATF "tricks" I hope Ashcroft has the nads to hang'em high....
Link Posted: 9/2/2001 12:13:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By operatorerror: My local news said the charred corpse was found laying on top of an "assault weapon".
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Hmm. "From my cold dead hands..." I saw an interview where the atf guy said they found an AR15, AK, handguns and a shotgun.
Link Posted: 9/2/2001 12:52:33 AM EDT
And I am willing to bet that when the numbers are run they were all stolen. He had gone back to fencing stolen goods again and he was telling people he was a cop to explain why he was carrying a gun all the time and frequently carrying unboxed long arms in and out. Till somone called his bluff and actually checked on him.
Link Posted: 9/2/2001 3:22:41 AM EDT
[url]http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-090201shoot.story[/url] Officials said they found three assault rifles in the ashes, including an [b]AK-47 and AR-15, as well as a shotgun, a .380-caliber semiautomatic pistol and other handguns, and large amounts of ammunition.[/b] They said they also found an old CHP badge near the body believed to be Beck's. F'KN BS. Did anyone actually see the alleged "AR15" and "AK47" yet? Come on, tell us "assault rifle" eXperts what the third alleged "assault rifle" was. I have "Jane's GUNS" right here in front of me. Guess the sheeple have been trained to recognize scary names of the AR15 and AK47. They are not capable of comprehending what the third one is.
Link Posted: 9/2/2001 3:27:48 AM EDT
BTW- Everything in is an "assault rifle" and that scoped Remington 700 constitutes a "sniper rifle" when it hits the news. 150 rounds from a bolt action would make Lee Harvey Oswald proud.
Link Posted: 9/2/2001 3:30:05 AM EDT
[img]http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2001/US/09/01/losangeles.sniper/top.rubble.beck.ap.jpg[/img]
Originally quoted by James Beck: I have no assault rifles!!!!
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Link Posted: 9/2/2001 3:54:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2001 4:01:09 AM EDT by sgtar15]
From [url]http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-090201shoot.story[/url] [b]Early in the battle, Beck allegedly shot and killed Kuredjian, who suffered a head wound while trying to provide cover to deputies pinned down in the fusillade, authorities said. The deputy arrived a few minutes after the shooting started and was hit almost immediately, [i]as he crouched behind an SUV four houses down from the Beck home[/i], officials said. Authorities said they believe Beck shot Kuredjian from an upstairs window, although they were still gathering information about the killing. "No one saw Beck shoot Jake," said Sheriff's Lt. Carl Deeley. "People right next to him just saw him go down. There were so many shots going off; it's hard to tell where they are coming from."[/b] Question--If the LEO was [i]behind[/i] a SUV then how can we be sure that it wasn,t friendly fire that hit him?? Will they be doing a ballistic test on this LEO?? and.... [b]Kincaid said the ATF will aggressively review all tactics used by the agents........ ....."We are going through this very meticulously. I'm not saying we did anything wrong, but if we can do something better I want to find out how to do that," Kincaid said.[/b] Well this puts me at eaze!! The ATF will be invetigating themselves. Now I know we will get the whole truth and nothing but the truth about what really happened. Sounds to me like they already know they f-ed up and are already planning a coverup. Double [-!-!-] the ATF! sgtar15
Link Posted: 9/2/2001 5:10:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BCBUD: he fired on police. Chances are most of us innocent people don't fire at police, we just say "fuck off, NO you can't see my guns"
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By firing on the Police, he WAS telling them you can't see my guns !!! Jay Arizona "Life is hard: It's harder if you're stupid"
Link Posted: 9/2/2001 5:33:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2001 5:35:35 AM EDT by AC_Doctor]
So Beck was a " sniper " if he had used the scoped Remington 700. If he did not have this weapon in his possesion, and he had an assault rifle, he would have been just the usual " gun wacko ". Anyways, just because he shot the Deputy with the 700, just does not make him a sniper, like CNN ( Communist News Network ) was reporting. Off topic, great words to live by, CAR15M4, LOL..... !!!!!! ( Life is hard, its harder if you are stupid )
Link Posted: 9/2/2001 6:27:53 AM EDT
I wonder why the neighbor reported Beck to the police just because he claimed to be a LEO and had a gun. What probable cause was there to report him? It's similar to your neighbor, seeing that you own a rifle, calls the police.
Link Posted: 9/2/2001 6:48:12 AM EDT
You say, that they haven't really found any weapons that they can hold in the air and say "See this really was Justified" look at these "Evil - Fully Semi-Automatic - Bolt Action - Assault Machine Guns". Not to worry, as we speak, the "Evidence" from "Waco" is on it's way to be "Planted".
Link Posted: 9/2/2001 6:55:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2001 6:55:47 AM EDT by Bat21]
Originally Posted By Chaingun: I wonder why the neighbor reported Beck to the police just because he claimed to be a LEO and had a gun. What probable cause was there to report him? It's similar to your neighbor, seeing that you own a rifle, calls the police. [/quote That's why, in a previous post, all I said was "Brown Shirts" This appears, to be a trend, in this country, to have your neighbor "Taken Out" because his cat crapped on his lawn.
Link Posted: 9/2/2001 9:58:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sgtar15: [b]Kincaid said the ATF will aggressively review all tactics used by the agents........ ....."We are going through this very meticulously. I'm not saying we did anything wrong, but if we can do something better I want to find out how to do that," Kincaid said.[/b]
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BATF technique improvement #1: Find a source of teargas canisters that also spread some fuel upon bursting, and that have a much hotter burn, to cut down on agent overtime by decreasing the time required to burn down a residence.
Link Posted: 9/2/2001 11:50:19 AM EDT
From Foxnews .com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Investigators Find Remains of Man Believed to Have Shot L.A. County Sheriff's Deputy SANTA CLARITA, Calif. — Investigators found human remains believed to be those of James Beck on Saturday in the burnt shell of the home where the one-time police officer barricaded himself during a deadly gun battle. The remains were lying on top of an assault rifle. A second rifle was within reach, said Los Angeles County sheriff's Lt. Carl Deeley. Beck is believed to have killed 40-year-old Los Angeles County sheriff's deputy Hagop "Jake" Kuredjian during a dramatic siege Friday. The human remains were found six hours after investigators began to search through the rubble. They also retrieved more weapons and a charred police badge. Beck, 35, allegedly fired 150 rounds at federal officers and sheriff's officials who tried to serve a search warrant at his home in this affluent city 22 miles north of Los Angeles. Authorities obtained the warrant after a neighbor called the U.S. Marshals Service to report suspicions that Beck was stockpiling weapons and falsely claiming to be a U.S. Marshal. "They were afraid of this guy out there. He was just acting too goofy to be a law enforcement officer like he claimed," said William Woolsey, spokesman for the Marshals Service. It was unclear Saturday if Beck started the blaze that destroyed his home after the gunfight or if it was sparked by tear gas fired into the house. It wasn't the first time Beck had tangled with the law. Police records show he had numerous prior convictions for burglary, receiving stolen property and impersonating a police officer. Beck did have a law enforcement background. He was a police officer from June 1987 to August 1988 but was fired for failure to satisfactorily complete his probation period, Arcadia Chief Dave Hinig said. Beck's criminal record along with neighbors' suspicions, brought Los Angeles County sheriff's deputies, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms agents and federal marshals to his home Friday. Beck answered his door but stormed back inside. Witnesses said he began shooting when officers shouted for him to come outside. Several residents of the upscale neighborhood said Beck often socialized with them but never at his own home. They often saw him walking a German shepherd, and he told at least one neighbor he trained police dogs. "He seemed like a pretty friendly guy, but I always thought something was a little different about him," said neighbor Debra Frye --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Link Posted: 9/2/2001 11:56:34 AM EDT
The ATF is investigating the conduct of their Agents because they untruthfully claimed to the press that this was a ATF operation when it wasn't. Untill the shooting it was a US Marshals operation. After the shooting it was a LA County Sheriffs operation. The LA County Sheriff is who burned this house down, NOT the ATF. I can only confirm from the media the presence of two ATF agents at the scene and they were only there because other agencies called them in. The AFV's, M60's, Grenade Launchers and all those guys in body armor were LA County Sheriffs SWAT. And unless Becks corpse has a bullet in it they are going to get their ass sued for letting him burn- just like the LAPD got suied for letting one of the North Hollywood bank robbers bleed to death in the street.
Link Posted: 9/2/2001 12:39:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BCBUD: he fired on police. Chances are most of us innocent people don't fire at police, we just say "fuck off, NO you can't see my guns"
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And after that, when they smash your door in? Norm
Link Posted: 9/2/2001 12:45:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Norm_G:
Originally Posted By BCBUD: he fired on police. Chances are most of us innocent people don't fire at police, we just say "fuck off, NO you can't see my guns"
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And after that, when they smash your door in? Norm
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If you are a convicted Felon, then yes. But the thing is, no on kicked his door in, the US Marshal actually knocked on his door and asked to speek with him outside. Which is what US Marshals ususally do when interviewing someone with no history of violence. This time it bit them and he opened fire. Still it looks like Beck may not have killed anyone now, that the Sheriffs deputy may have been killed by a fellow deputy. I have lived in SoCal, I know how the LACSO works, this is the sort of thing that they would do to cover up a blue on blue incident that could get them sued big time.
Link Posted: 9/2/2001 4:12:47 PM EDT
One thing I learned a long time ago is when I'm about to go to the range, I pull the truck into the garage, close the garage door, load up and the leave. When I get back, I pull into the garage, close the garage door, and unload. Living in the PRK it's unwise to advertise that you're a gun owner. People here are so stupid, if they see a gun they automatically you're a bad ass or a psycho. None of my neighbors know I'm a shooter and I plan to keep it that way.
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 7:42:00 PM EDT
"He seemed like a pretty friendly guy, but I always thought something was a little different about him," said neighbor Debra Frye
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Well, hell, what more do you [u]need[/u]?
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 8:57:26 PM EDT
[url]http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010903/us/warrant_shootout_21.html[/url] [b]Calif. Standoff Probe Raises Questions[/b] SANTA CLARITA, Calif. (AP) - The investigation into a deadly California standoff has raised questions about whether the suspect fired the bullet that killed a deputy or whether the officer was mistakenly hit by a fellow lawman. The standoff began Friday morning when officers tried to serve a search warrant at the home of James Allen Beck, a convicted felon who allegedly impersonated a U.S. marshal and was building a weapons cache. It ended with a ball of flames and a hail of bullets. Beck and sheriff's Deputy Hagop ``Jake'' Kuredjian both died But now there are apparently doubts about who fired the shot that killed the deputy. The Los Angeles Times reported Sunday that the investigation has raised such questions. ``I am quite sure that is something we're going to look into, because it's not clear he was shot by Beck,'' sheriff's Sgt. Paul Patterson told The Associated Press in an interview Sunday. But Sheriff's Lt. Carl Deeley said there is ``absolutely no doubt'' that Kuredjian was killed by Beck. He told KCBS-TV that the angles of the shots prove they came from Beck. Deeley also said Beck apologized during the negotiations for shooting the deputy. Autopsy results Saturday showed Kuredjian died of a single gunshot wound to the head. He had been struck while crouching behind an SUV parked on the street four houses down from Beck, the Times reported. As authorities approached the home, Beck began shooting at officers. The exchange of gunfire startled neighbors, especially those who said they saw officers firing at the wrong house. [b]Homes on either side of Beck's house were riddled with bullet holes, including one where a couple and their 30-hour-old newborn cowered. ``Three bullets came through the (front) window, the master closets and into the master bathroom,'' said Phil Lombardi, the baby's father. ``It was very traumatic. My wife wasn't coping with it. I was trying to comfort her with the newborn child,'' he said[/b]. The total number of rounds fired was unclear and authorities would not give an estimate. ``It was a very extensive gun battle. We have to wait to see what was collected at scene,'' sheriff's Sgt. Patterson said. The three-hour exchange ended after tear gas projectiles were shot into Beck's house and a fire erupted. Flames quickly engulfed the home, burning it to the ground. But authorities were still unclear how the fire began. Investigators discovered a body believed to be Beck's. But the coroner's office said an autopsy would not be conducted until at least Tuesday. Two assault rifles, a shotgun, a semiautomatic pistol and other handguns were collected from the ashes.
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 10:51:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By prk:
"He seemed like a pretty friendly guy, but I always thought something was a little different about him," said neighbor Debra Frye
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Well, hell, what more do you [u]need[/u]?
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If you are the LACSO and you are hearing this from the wives of other LEO's (the LA Times said on Sunday that many LEO's have homes in that neighborhood) then no you dont need any more. Its silly but its true.
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 6:32:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SDwhirlwind: I saw the pic. The agent was holding it for the cameras like "See we told you he had guns and was a very bad, bad man" I watched everything even before the fire started. When the news lady said "They threw in more teargas and you can see the smoke" I really started watching. I am not very bright but new right away that tear gas does not give off black smoke like burning carpet does. This was from the upstairs window. Not once was it mentioned that anyone heard ammo igniting. In Rapid City,SD 3yrs ago this spring a huge gun shop burned. People said you could hear ammo popping and ruptured cases were landing several blocks away. Guess his stockpile wasn't big enough.
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Off topic, but which store? I tried out for RCPD about 8 years ago; not a bad little place, given that its mostly a tourist place....
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