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Posted: 8/31/2001 7:54:46 PM EDT
[#1]
Right back at 'em!
[img]albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=992958&a=8202577&p=50338945[/img] |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 8:01:02 PM EDT
[#2]
to any LEO on here:
Can you actually defend civilian law enforcemnet carrying M-60's? Where do we draw the line? TOW missles? BTW, the Peacekeeper (the vehicle in the photo) is vulnerable to 30-06 AP, FWIW. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 8:19:26 PM EDT
[#3]
Don't worry, ill come over with a 20mm lathi.
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Posted: 8/31/2001 8:24:00 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: to any LEO on here: BTW, the Peacekeeper (the vehicle in the photo) is vulnerable to 30-06 AP, FWIW. No wonder they don't like 50s!! Levels the field a bit. |
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Posted: 9/1/2001 5:01:43 AM EDT
[#5]
WTF does a sherrifs dept need and armored vehicle with an m60 mounted on it for? I can see ZERO legitamate LE use for that. Unless of course you consider holding off hordes of pissed off gun owners.
That setup just seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen in a residential area. Not to mention collateral injuries from the dumass that opens up with it in a populated area. too bad this guy didn't have a 50 in the window. |
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Posted: 9/1/2001 5:25:23 AM EDT
[#6]
I just got my list of Curio firearms I am allowed to buy. I can buy WWI Anti-tank rifles legally. How cool is that?
Where do you buy Anti-tank rifles? I haven't seen them in the SOG ad. |
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Posted: 9/1/2001 5:39:06 AM EDT
[#7]
Hmmmmmmm if I had to hold them off I think the M60 would be a problem ….
Although 10 rounds of 40mm tear gas would slow them down.. |
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Posted: 9/1/2001 7:00:44 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: Hmmmmmmm if I had to hold them off I think the M60 would be a problem …. Although 10 rounds of 40mm tear gas would slow them down.. Especially if you apply tactics from the lessons learned at Waco, & SoCal yesterday. Make sure the tear gas is of the incendiary variety.... One through the hatch, anybody??? |
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Posted: 9/1/2001 7:09:23 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: to any LEO on here: Can you actually defend civilian law enforcemnet carrying M-60's? Where do we draw the line? TOW missles? BTW, the Peacekeeper (the vehicle in the photo) is vulnerable to 30-06 AP, FWIW. Hmmmmmm, Damn good question. Any LEO's care to comment ??? OH, and BTW, Please tell me again the differences between LEO's and the military ??? |
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Posted: 9/1/2001 7:15:48 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: OH, and BTW, Please tell me again the differences between LEO's and the military ??? The military is more likely to act with good judgement. In yesterday's event, they probably would have tossed flash-bang grenades (similar to LEO [i]"diversionary devices"[/i]) through the windows and cleared the house room by room. [i]As opposed to the LEO "burn it to the ground" approach.... I bet they learned it from watching the final scene of "Young Guns"[/i] |
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Posted: 9/1/2001 12:09:12 PM EDT
[#11]
FWIW...
The SD Sheriff's Dept. does not own any 60's, 249's, etc (and I can't name any LE Agency that does...waaaay too much liability). That's NOT an operational photo. It's called staged publicity (altho' in bad taste IMO). I've seen this kind of thing before, especially when someone gets themselves a new toy from another agency, they "dress up" to show it off. Relax, not everything's a conspiracy. And in a barricade situation, waiting them out is preferrable to going in. That's a last resort. That whole "buring things down" bull is just plain stupid sounding anymore. -SARguy |
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Posted: 9/1/2001 12:19:36 PM EDT
[#12]
The police deserve to use any military equipment they want as it helps them return home safely to their families at night.
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Posted: 9/1/2001 12:28:24 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: FWIW... The SD Sheriff's Dept. does not own any 60's, 249's, etc (and I can't name any LE Agency that does...waaaay too much liability). That's NOT an operational photo. It's called staged publicity (altho' in bad taste IMO). I've seen this kind of thing before, especially when someone gets themselves a new toy from another agency, they "dress up" to show it off. Relax, not everything's a conspiracy. And in a barricade situation, waiting them out is preferrable to going in. That's a last resort. That whole "buring things down" bull is just plain stupid sounding anymore. -SARguy [img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/SPECTRE%2F575304%2Ejpg[/img] Does it still look like a staged publicity photo SARguy ??? This is a closer shot of the top of that welcome wagon. |
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Posted: 9/1/2001 12:49:38 PM EDT
[#14]
Which Sheriffs Dept is this?
I must agree that civilian LE needs not this type of armament. [img]http://www.ar15.com/members/albums/SPECTRE%2F575304%2Ejpg[/img] [i][b]"If you're not part of the Solution,' you're part of the problem"[/i][/b] sgb |
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Posted: 9/1/2001 1:07:57 PM EDT
[#15]
The M-60 is on a L.A.County Sheriff vehicle. Some of the others are L.A.P.D.
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Posted: 9/1/2001 1:16:31 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: Does it still look like a staged publicity photo SARguy ??? This is a closer shot of the top of that welcome wagon. Well, at the risk of sounding rational here... 1.) Where did you get the photos? I'd like the original source so I can judge for myself. I don't put much stock in photos without documentation. 2.) The likelihood of a civilian agency having M-60's is remote. From both a PR and an operational standpoint it's taboo. 60's would bring way too much liability to a dept... something a city attorney would never allow. 3.) My unit has trained with SWAT guys. Guess what? We've run weapons familiarization with them. Why? In case things like that are stolen from us so they know how to operate (i.e. make safe) the weapon. 4.) I'm not saying SWAT needs this kind of weapon. But the fact is, this is something that would not stand. A dept would never bring anything like this out operationally. There's no use for something like that in SWAT opreations and teams know it. 5.) It;s not some scheme to put machineguns, rockets, etc into LE hands. Again, from a liability standpoint, no city would do that. -SARguy |
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Posted: 9/1/2001 1:16:39 PM EDT
[#17]
Next thing you know, in the not too distant future, we'll all be safe and snug with PD and SO APCs on every corner dutifully scanning their fields of fire with their 20MM autocannons. Yup, safe and snug...
Think its far fetched? Yeah, just radical paranoia I guess...[rolleyes] |
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Posted: 9/1/2001 1:21:43 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Quoted: Does it still look like a staged publicity photo SARguy ??? This is a closer shot of the top of that welcome wagon. Well, at the risk of sounding rational here... 1.) Where did you get the photos? I'd like the original source so I can judge for myself. I don't put much stock in photos without documentation. 2.) The likelihood of a civilian agency having M-60's is remote. From both a PR and an operational standpoint it's taboo. 60's would bring way too much liability to a dept... something a city attorney would never allow. 3.) My unit has trained with SWAT guys. Guess what? We've run weapons familiarization with them. Why? In case things like that are stolen from us so they know how to operate (i.e. make safe) the weapon. 4.) I'm not saying SWAT needs this kind of weapon. But the fact is, this is something that would not stand. A dept would never bring anything like this out operationally. There's no use for something like that in SWAT opreations and teams know it. 5.) It;s not some scheme to put machineguns, rockets, etc into LE hands. Again, from a liability standpoint, no city would do that. -SARguy SARguy, L.A. Times. www.latimes.com/news/local/la-pg-shoot.photogallery |
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Posted: 9/1/2001 1:34:46 PM EDT
[#19]
Why is it that a M-60 would be bad PR and burning a house down isn't?
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Posted: 9/1/2001 1:41:00 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: Why is it that a M-60 would be bad PR and burning a house down isn't? Burning a house down? Oh, that's just their way... Its nothing personal. |
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Posted: 9/1/2001 2:35:05 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: 4.) I'm not saying SWAT needs this kind of weapon. But the fact is, this is something that would not stand. A dept would never bring anything like this out operationally. There's no use for something like that in SWAT opreations and teams know it. 5.) It;s not some scheme to put machineguns, rockets, etc into LE hands. Again, from a liability standpoint, no city would do that. -SARguy WTF are you talking about, SARguy? You'd be surprised at just how many law enforcement agencies have gotten APCs, machineguns, grenade launchers, and heaps upon heaps of TA50 and body armor from the military through the 1033/Northstar Program. Almost half of the state and local departments in the country have. It's public knowledge. You put your foot in your mouth this time. What teams did you say you worked with? The APCs definately have a use for downed officer and civilian rescue. |
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Posted: 9/1/2001 3:25:38 PM EDT
[#22]
That is overkill for any civillian LE agency to have an M-60 mounted to an armored vehicle in thier arsenal. Who are they expecting to use such a weapon on? The answer is you and me and anyone else they feel like. I was surprised to see the NYPD's ESU with MP-5's, but the M-60 series Machine Gun is without a doubt a pure military weapon designed for squads of Marines/Soldiers to use in WAR against the enemy. We are not the enemy. We are Americans. This is not like the handfull of civillians that can afford to own one, and go through the proper channels, pay the tax, and enjoy a day at the range. They are not in a position of authority, and own it for private use/fun. They are not making split second decisions concerning the public while sitting behind a belt fed. It is too easy for the LE agecy to justify the use of such a weapon in a tactical situation. I don't blame the LEO, but the government for allowing the LEO to be armed with such a weapon while at the same time, disarming all of it's citizens. Are we headed for another Revolution or what! It looks like our governments system of checks and balances went out the window, but only the few are even concerned about it.
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Posted: 9/1/2001 4:46:17 PM EDT
[#23]
Just to lighten the mood somewhat.
Can´t pinpoint the exact place or name of the perp, but someone who climbed atop a building and shot people from there, when the police were unable to stop him a CH46 was called and the M60D gunner made him swiss cheese. I read about that incident in John Plaster´s Ultimate Sniper, early 80s i think was the time of the incident. So, who says M60s don´t have a legitimate use in LE. [:)] Corrected some sad spelling there. |
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Posted: 9/1/2001 4:49:34 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: to any LEO on here: Can you actually defend civilian law enforcemnet carrying M-60's? Where do we draw the line? TOW missles? BTW, the Peacekeeper (the vehicle in the photo) is vulnerable to 30-06 AP, FWIW. Well since LEO's are civilians they shouldbe able to carry anything that other civilians could have. Why should they have to justify which weapons they carry to YOU. Next YOU will have to justify which weapons you have to THEM |
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Posted: 9/1/2001 4:57:03 PM EDT
[#25]
Nope, Police don't [u]need[/u] M 60's.
Civilian's don't [u]need[/u] Browning MG's either [img]http://www.ar15.com/images/postPics/garand_shooter.jpg[/img] Need has nothing to do with it. Civilians control the Police and make the rules. If you don't like the current rules then get involved in changing them, cause bitching about it here solves nothing. [i][b]"If you're not part of the Solution, you're part of the problem"[/i][/b] sgb |
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Posted: 9/1/2001 4:59:49 PM EDT
[#26]
Well I never anticipate the need for belt fed weapons.
But if you want to restrict the weapons civilian LE can own you are by extension restricting civilian ownership of weapons. |
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Posted: 9/1/2001 5:25:29 PM EDT
[#27]
Not to worry folks. When I was stationed at Minot in the 80's the missile cops used those in the field. If they break down as often as they did in North Dakota, They would never make it to the scene of the crime.
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