So let's say, just for academic reasons, I had an AR-15 carbine (M4 styple bbl with 2 1/2 mini y-comp) and 200 rounds along with a Mossberg Crusier pistol gripped 12ga shotgun with about 100 rounds of #00 buckshot/#9 birdshot...would that be considered a stockpile or an arsenal?

Hey guys I think alot of you are missing the point.
If I am not mistaken the fellow was a felon.
If I am correct then he had no business with any firearms.
He shot and killed a Deputy who was going about his business in a lawful manner.
The media always seizes upon a tragedy to promote the antigun agenda.
My prayers are with the family of that Deputy.

Why is the government always the bad guy to some of you guys?

And by the way
Am I stockpiling weapons and ammo? I have over 250 firearms and at least 50,000 rounds of ammo and the components to load twice that much.
Do I have an arsenal?
Hell no, I have well stocked Gunshop.

Sparky 315

Here  are a few things to consider.

1 He was going to be arrested for “stock piling weapons”.  There has been no mention to my knowledge of anyone saying he was being arrested for being a felon in possession of firearms. Those are two completely different things. The stock piling of weapons angle in unconstitutional at best and tyrannical at worst. If the latter is the case then the enforcement agencies involved, blew it big time in regards to how RKBA supporters will look at this.

2 According to what the news reports say, a neighbor or neighbors said that he was impersonating a canine officer. Obviously none of us know the exact details of this but the stories don’t say that the impersonation was in the commission of a crime. Also the reports don’t indicate that any official complaint had been filed.

When a warrant is served is a result of a crime being committed. I haven’t yet seen anything that indicates that there has been any investigation on the impersonation angle with evidence supporting a warrant. I haven’t heard anything to support that idea except as a side note.

I have no doubt that there is much more to this story. However when a house gets burned to the ground, and a citizen dies in it, there needs to be more explanation to it than what has been provided so far.

When supposed LEOs like OLY M4 get on the thread and spout off with Liberal nonsense. They also bring scrutiny of the RKBA supporters to a higher level in cases like this.

None of my stocks are in a pile, so I couldn't be "stockpiling", by definition.[XX(]  (On the contrary, they are vertically stacked against the wall.  This makes me a *stackpiler*)

Some observations:

A.  The cops are wearing ski masks, carrying German submachine guns, have bags of assault grenades, and practice "dynamic entry" -- bursting into your door spraying 9mm and tossing grenades.

B.  The cops job is to (used to be) seize the suspect for the court system to deal with, not burn him out.  Have you guys ever noticed that the MOUT style tactics result in paramilitary assault troops burning out "strongpoints"?  That is what the US army's MOUT manual RECOMMENDS.

C. And so, when you dress up your cops and equip them like assault commandos, don't be surprised when they act like assault troops burning out the enemy.  Guess who the enemy is they aim to burn out?  Bingo!


This all comes under the heading of the militarization of the police.

When the government burns YOUR house down:
- the guy on the radio will be overheard saying "He's burning his own house down!"

- another official will mention to the media that you are a rapist, or child molester or tax protestor, or felon or had a drug lab or were spanking your kids, or lived in a "compound" or are a seperatist or...

- the media will air interviews with your mouthy liberal woman neighbor saying "I saw him taking 8 cased rifles and arm loads of ammo to the shooting range every weekend.  He also complained about big government..."

When the cops and the media and your liberal woman neighbor finish assasinating your character, you will sound like another Dahmer who "just got what he deserved".

--------

Isn't burning down a crime scene considered Obstruction of Justice, or evidence tampering or something?


----------

Erasmus, just killin' time in the Warsaw Ghetto..  I mean today's California.

Killing is not the answer. No It would have to be an Appeals Court. Do you think it makes it more or less likely that day will come when you applaud the killing of a LEO??




I understand I don't want a ban and the current law is just goofy. The more LEO's know about the law and are effected by it the less likely they are to support it. Many line LEO's are RKBA types.



Good point, wait I don't get to use my AR as a duty weapon, so I would be one of those untrustworthy civilians.

sgtar15  

Erasmus

You have pretty much the way nailed it.

This guy probably deserved the warrant. But as usual we are told one thing at first, and then he become a bigger and bigger criminal as his house burns down.

People from the law enforcement side say just give up and have your day in court.
Unless you have had your head in the sand for the past twenty years, statistically you will lose a gun issue in court, or will die of old age waiting to be heard.
Over the same twenty years there has been plenty of work in the political side of things to insure our RKBA, but we still get pushed back further and further.

But lets be politically corrects, give up our rights, and obey the law just because it's the law. Screw moral responsibility, rights, or what it means to be an American.

Can't we all just along?  (with who?)

uuummmm, how about showing me when the ATF was one of the "goodguys" ????
How about telling me something our benevolent government does FOR us, and not TO us ???
[img]www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/shootout.gif[/img]

It's illegal for a felon to stockpile weapons. It sounds sinister, and probably got said for effect and a "sound bite". It was still illegal for him to do.



Impersonting an officer is a crime.



A warrant has to have probable cause that a crime was committed, a seach warrant can be issued with probable cause even if the suspect hasn't been charged with a crime.



Yup if being responsible for the result of your actions is a liberal idea so be it.

Why don't YOU tell us about all the times, good or bad that you've met ATF agents.

Since the government US, State, County, or local all derive power form the people... We do it to ourselves.

Schools, roads, trash pick-up, currency, consumer protection laws, lemon laws for cars, national defense, food safety standards, and clean/safe water standars to name a few.

[img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/SPECTRE%2F574609%2Ejpg[/img]
Hey Oly, how about telling me how the vehicle above can be used "for" us ???
As to your list of govt. services, I beleive this topic is concerning things other than the services you listed.
AND, as to me telling YOU about my encounters with the atf, My point was, can someone tell or show me any instance where the atf has done something good for us ???

Okay, I’ll concede to you that this particular guy obviously had some issues. I’ll concede that those issues probably required law enforcements involvement.  I’ll agree with you that based on what we are being told, it was a tragedy that LEO died.

That being said, let me ask you this. Exactly what do you find during a search that proves impersonation?

My problem here is that there is that all kinds of fluff has been added to this to make this seem like a really bad guy. If that is truly the case why was this encounter started the way it was?
Where I’m from if someone is suspected of a “gun crime” the whole world shows up from the git go.

As for your last comment. I see no one accepting responsibility for any results here. Everyone is assigning blame. You and I included.
You however equated being alone the same as being a nut case. That my friend is being a Liberal.

I think if my family, or your family was in serious danger, from a feloniuous act of another, I would want the police to have a means to deal with the BG's. Sending Barney F in just gets more trouble.

How many bad encounter have YOU had with the ATF?? Let's go pony up, you like to talk about them, what's your basis?? New reports of incidnets that happened states away from you?? Tell us what you have actually witnessed!!

Is that a friggen M60 on top of that armored car?  Holy [heavy].

Kharn

OK that is all that I was really after.



General stuff, badges, uniforms, blue/red lights that can be mounted in cars, or a particular type of car.

Specifics, a type of gun or leather gear described by a witness. Trace material left form a vicitm in the suspects car. A vehicle with specific appearance or damage. Civilain type clothe the "detective" was wearing during the impersonation.



Guns are neutral, good people have no problems with guns, bad people or dumb-asses can be dangersous with guns in different ways. My understanding is that the put up a perimeter and called him on the phone, probably to mininmize the SWAT over-agressive approach appearence, and to mininmize the chance a face to face shoot-out. Didn't work that way, shooting starts, ATF agent injured, Deputy responds and is killed. LE has to contact people. they tried to lower the risk it didn't work. As for how, why, when, where, etc they decdided to proceed I have no idea really.

No, No one is a nut case for being alone or having guns. Being a failed police officer, convicted felon, police impersonator, who shoots it out with the cops when they try to serve a warrant make him a nut case. Part of that is the resentment I feel for how many people on this board wanted to call him a hero, which he ain't. I gotta call 'em like I see 'em

This is true.  And if you read the affidavit for the Waco warrant, you know how easy it is to fake probable cause.  Unfortunately there are too many judges who got their degree from the  OLY-M4gery school of "in government we trust".

The affidavit for this particular inferno should make interesting reading, when it becomes available.

I regret that I was glad at the time to see the SLA house go up in smoke.  It's unfortunate when it takes seeing that it can happen to somebody who is (if not like you) at least more aligned with your politics, to bring it all home.

No, If the suspect commited the crimes and the warrant is issued on the basis of evidence, fact, and testimony, the judge issued the warrant, get is served.

If the warrant is issued on shoddy information, with the DA's office not objectively reviewing the case before presenting it to a judge, that's bad.

If the warrant is issued based on perjury, or intetionally hiding exculpatory evidence, that's criminal.

If the Judge doesn't question the information presented to him before issuing a warrant, again bad.

If the Judge issues a warrant without being satisfied the State has met their burden that;s criminal.

If the warrant is served on a subject who decides to resist forcibly and is injured or killed by the police lawfully attempting to aprehend the suspect, that is life in the big city.

If the suspect is beaten, injured, or killed becasuse the police don't really want to take him "peaceful like", that is a crime.

I only post this to show where I got the notion of your beliefs.

While I don’t feel this guy is in the right, I also don’t feel the action was warranted. And I believe that is really the point here. If as you said, there was a mass gathering of LE and a parameter set up, what exactly was going thru the planners mind? Why not confront this guy in a less volatile scenario. Why do it in a neighborhood? Why not have the proper PR already in place?

I don’t have the answers to that and neither do you. While cheering over a dead cop is wrong , so is supporting a tactic that has never worked. Through our TV screens this looks and sounds no different than Waco, Ruby Ridge etc. This tactic is wrong, and to support it only serves to increase the bad feelings being expressed.

Perimeters work all the time. Because then you either send an officer up to the door or give the "target" a call. They may check to see if a perimeter is in place, but generally when most people no they have no escape routes they give up, discretion is the better part of valor.

Where would you suggest confronting him?? Work, other people will be there. When he drives out of the neighborhood?? If he's in a vehicle what about the people that could be endangered in case of a high speed chase??

Oly, I have no real experience with the atf other than what I read, hear or see in the media. with that being said, I would submit to you that I dont need that contact to see a problem.
At what point would you say a certain weapon is not suited to police actions ??? At what point should the police step aside and call in the National Guard ???
I would think that any situation which would warrant a M-60 or anything larger should be handled by someone else.
Like it or not, LEO's play soldier way too often and that is the image which disturbs most people. When we are shown pictures of LEO's hiding behind cowards masks, toting heavy weaponry and using military tactics, the respect level takes a huge hit.

While yes it appears to be true that this man was a "FELON" in "ILLEGAL" possession of firearms the question I ask is this:
After being convicted of a felony,sentenced and serving your time haven't you know paid for your crime?Under the U.S. Constitution most of the "FELON'S" Constitutional rights are still intact with the exception of his 2nd Amendment right and I believe the right to vote.Why is this?Is it in the interest of "PUBLIC SAFETY"?Does the Constitution say that there is a right to being safe?Are not all of our rights absolute?Yes I know the comparison will be made to shouting fire in a crowded theatre.I read an editorial piece in American Handgunner several months back that addressed this issue and it really gave me some food for thought regarding our rights and how "The Government" views them and has eroded them.

So you trust the media for thourough unbiased reporting?? Do you think the media reports when things go right??

The same people who complain about SWAT will say that the USMC/USA/NG/AR can't be used for civilain law enforcement missions. Not to mention there response time is way to long and they really aren't trained in arrest tactics.

When an cop has been shot by a subject that apperently has C-III weapons, or suitably powerful semi-AW's yes an M-60 may be apropriate. It's not the weapons, it is how they are used.

If you want to argue about the apropriate use of SWAT etc. it's been done, and a lot of people will say that LEA's need the capability, they just don't like the number of missions SWAT has or the lack of oversight. Sending SWAT into a situation where the barricaded subject is still actively shooting is probably more apropriate than a lot of other SWAT jobs.

NO this is not a payment plan, you never "work off" murder, manslughter, homicide by drunk driving. Nor will there be a payment plan for sexual assualt, of children or adults. Kidnapping, armed robbery, or causing great bodily harm by battering someone. You destroyed other peoples lives, there is no "paying your debt".

There are lots of others like burglary, defiling someone elses home, that may not be violent per se but will always be in the mind of the victim.

If your moral compass is so screwed up you think it is ok to go around committing felonies I wonder what kind of judgement you would have with a firearm.

Individuals are responsible for their actions. If they don't want to be barred from owning firearms don't commit felonies. You got to pick what is important to you.

Sure parameters work, but this guy is suspected of having a large volumes of fire power. He can’t take it everywhere with him.
I think you need to take a step back for a moment and look at it from outside the department.
If you wish to continue to support another screw up it is truly your right. Be aware that when you do so, LE is judged by public opinion. That has been done thoroughly on this thread. If you want this guy to be judged, than you need to get him in the court room. If no one can figure out how to do this, then this type of encounter needs to be postponed until a better solution is reached.
Regardless of what this guy did or didn’t do, the rest of the country has make judgments on what they do know.
What they know is that David Koresch was suspected of having illegal automatic weapons. His house was burned down, and the weapons were not found. Now he was guilty of something else.
Perhaps to you this looks like something completely different. But to a lot of people who have to make decisions on news reports and spin jobs, this is awfully suspicious.

Don’t be your own worst enemy.

On TV one of the neighbors said he heard a "semiautomatic machinegun."  Shows you how well the anti-gun crowd in Kalif have done a good job in making everyone think a semi-auto weapon is a machinegun.

What bugs me about these cops is how hard they try to be Army...check out some pics of these wannabes during the siege and youll see what i mean...

[img]http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2001-08/575219.jpg[/img]
Comrade Nikolai and Comrade Boris rolling into your neighborhood

[img]http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2001-08/575290.jpg[/img]
oooh..oooh I get to shoot my new AR!!

[img]http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2001-08/573747.jpg[/img]
When the movie Blackhawk Down comes out you can just hear these Delta wannabes whine that their department needs Littlebird helicopters too.

[img]http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2001-08/575304.jpg[/img]
A military wannabe manning the pig on his wannabe APC.  Funny how the civilians make the US Army national guard install blocks on the selector switches of their weapons when called for riots to prevent them from going burst/auto and yet they allow cops to use M60s.

No, we konw now that he was ready to violently resist and had the menas to do so. Did they know that before?? Did he previously resist them??

Plus like I said before they ATF/SO has to work within the law. The can't simply detain him at work to serve the search warrant, false imprisonment.

This is people dealing with people. People are predictable and capable of wildly unpredictable behavior. You can never eliminate the possibilty of someone effectivley resisting. It is more often a question of whether the suspect wants to resist and how much force he is willing to use to resist.

NO, this is not people dealing with people !!! When these guys put on their wannabe suits, they put on a military attitude with it, and act accordingly.
Take a good look at the pics above Oly, Is  that OK with you ??? A big part of a police department is community and public relations. When the public see's this type of response, the image they have of LEO's a bad one.

Spectre, I'm trying to discuss this incident.

As I Understand it:

1) The ATF had a Federal Search Warrant
2) The ATF set up a perimeter around the target house.
3) The ATF called the guy and notified him of the warrant.
(I don't have any info on how the ATF guys were dressed. But the didn't try the "dynamic entry")
4) Beck responds by shooting from his house.
5) ATF guy injured.
6) Deputy responds to the "shots fired", apparently had been on patrol.
7) Deputy killed by Beck.

Beck, a felon, has firearms, illegal to posses as a felon.

SO decides after all this, that the guy shooting from his house needs to be countered by SWAT. SWAT wasn't sent into this until Beck had already killed a Deputy.

Yeah, it is ok with me if things are so bad armed police officers are getting killed and their weapons are no effective in the encounter, yes let's take it up a notch. No one should ever be able to fight LE to a draw. LE should never say "he's too tough let's go away until old age slows him down".

My people dealing with people was in response to your saying "this went wrong". Well there is always risk, in life, and in police work, nothing ever works out perfect. Humans are sometimes predictably and other times they are not.

OLY M4
Look at the post above. these are the images that we see. Any intellegent person would see that this is not acceptible in a neiborhood. You can’t say we took these precautions because we didn’t think he was a threat. Either he was perceived as a threat or he wasn’t. If you try to claim both you will be perceived as covering something up

Here’s a thought. Why not serve him as he is getting home.
Suspect in the open
At best will have a sidearm, but easily covered
Won’t be able to access other weapons
Won’t require armored vehicles.
Worst case scenario is resolved in seconds
No bad PR on TV for the cops from the people who now have all these images to form there own opinions.

Damn, the cops have M60s now? CPL_Punishment do you have a link to those pics?

Spectre, My understanding is SWAT was not there for the initial warrant attempt. Once the shooting started they were sent, this incident did last a few hours. They were even saying something about Deputies being "airlifted" to the scene.

What if he has no regular schedule?? How do you prevent the high speed chase when you try to stop him on the way home??  

yeah photos are from LA Times.com

[url]http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-pg-shoot.photogallery[/url]

Moscow
Baghdad
Beruit
Belfast
Santa Clarita....

Is it just me, or are they all starting to look the same.  Law enforcement with heavy firepower, apcs, and soon to be tanks(?) coming to your very own neighborhood.  When do they get the 155 howitzers to take out the REALLY bad guys.  Maybe they just need a couple of M113 Zippos and then they can really protect and serve.

Oly, doesn't it bother you that lately more and more law enforcement needs APCs, now general purpose machine guns, whats next?  And if that doesn't work, should I be prepared to see an M60A3 tank rolling down the street to crush protestors, or to take out my neighbor because he might have a gun?  

Know lets look at the safety issue.  The houses pictured to me look like they have stucco walls.  If they used that M60, how many houses should we expect those .308 rounds to pass through?  I can see a sniper taking one well aimed thought out shot with a bolt, or semi-auto.  I can also see an application for sub-guns.  But when we start pulling in heavy maching guns, what is the thought behind that!?!

Seriously, if we look at the time in Indianapolis, when the swat team put themselves in their own cross fire shooting at a Tahoe driving between them.  Then we have Lubbock SWAT spraying 350+ rounds of ammo about a house without a target!

So when we see cops riding around in APCs with M60 machine guns on the top, that is a scary thought!!  So what if one of these guys opens up with that '60.  Just who are they protecting, where are all those bullets going? Should we feel safe!?!?

On another note, this makes the US look more like a police state and a whole lot less like  a country of free people!  

Edited to correct my attrocious grammar.

Well said [:D]

Yes APC's, MG's do bother me, not that LE's have them but how they are used and making sure proper oversight is in place.

But, don't ask me to justifiy why LE's want MG's, that is only one step removed from someone asking YOU why you need an AR-15, M-44, or '03 Springfield.

SWAT guys are cops they should be using the same use of force rules as the regular MK-I street cop. Regardless of the weaponry involved.

But there are MG's out there, perhaps that PD has justified the need to have their own MG's. I don't know I'm not trying to justifiy everything everyone does. I just jumped in here because of the glee some were expressing because a Deputy got killed near an ATF agent.

Body Found in Ruins
Authorities Said They Believed Gunman Died in Fire

By Raul Mora
The Associated Press


S A N T A   C L A R I T A, Calif., Sept. 1 — Investigators found human remains believed to be those of James Beck on Saturday in the burnt shell of the home where the one-time police officer barricaded himself during a deadly gun battle.  

The body thought to be that of Beck, who allegedly killed a Los Angeles County sheriff's deputy during a dramatic siege Friday morning, was found lying on top of an assault rifle. A second rifle was within reach, said Los Angeles County sheriff's Lt. Carl Deeley.
Investigators also found the remains of a dog, more weapons and a charred police badge.

"We just found a body. We found human remains we assume to be Beck's in the location," Deeley said around 12:30 p.m., six hours after investigators began to search through the rubble.

Beck, 35, allegedly fired about 150 rounds at federal officers and sheriff's officials who tried to serve a search warrant at his home in this affluent city 22 miles north of Los Angeles.

Authorities obtained the warrant about three weeks after a neighbor called the U.S. Marshals Service to report suspicions that Beck was stockpiling weapons and falsely claiming to be a U.S. Marshal.

"They were afraid of this guy out there. He was just acting too goofy to be a law enforcement officer like he claimed," said William Woolsey, public information officer for the Marshals Service in Los Angeles.

Fatally wounded in the gunfight was Los Angeles County Sheriff's deputy Hagop "Jake" Kuredjian, a 17-year department veteran. Kuredjian, 40, who co-workers said was like an older brother to fellow officers, had recently achieved a lifelong dream by becoming a motorcycle officer.

It remained unclear today if Beck started the blaze that destroyed his home after the gunfight, or if it was sparked by tear gas projectiles fired into the house.

It wasn't the first time Beck had tangled with the law.

Police records show he had numerous prior convictions for burglary, receiving stolen property and impersonating a police officer, among other things.

Beck did have a brief law enforcement background. He was an Arcadia police officer from June 1987 to August 1988 but was fired for failure to satisfactorily complete his probation period, Arcadia Chief Dave Hinig said.

Beck's criminal record, coupled with neighbors' suspicions, brought Los Angeles County sheriff's deputies, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms agents and federal marshals to his well-kept home.

Authorities said Beck answered his door at about 8:30 a.m. but stormed back inside. Witnesses said he began shooting when officers shouted for him to come outside.

Several residents of the upscale neighborhood known as Stevenson Ranch said Beck often socialized with them but never at his own home. They saw him walking his German Shepherd, and he told at least one neighbor he trained police dogs.

"It was kind of strange because he never seemed to have a uniform on or anything," said Teri Cerino, who lives across the street. "Some of us kind of suspected there were problems with him."

Oh yeah, that article...

see this post: [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=48554[/url]

Well, let me get this straight.....My neighbor says I am stockpiling weapons, and someone says I am saying I'm a LEO.
YUP, sounds like agood reason to raid the place !!!!
If thats all it takes, then we all better get ready for the same treatment.

Most people on this board claim to be strict Constitutionalists, but yet you and others have questioned this very thing.  If the Constitution says it, is that not good enough?  See, the anti's try to pick and choose which parts of the Constitution are valid, are you doing the same thing?

"Brown Shirts"

NO!! If you are going to post my quote post all of it and don't take it out of context.You are totally ignorant of the point I am making.

First of all let me say you are an incredibly naive little person.
If you do not like the laws and the sentencing then change them.
Second not all felonies are of the type you have described in your flowery Liberal way.
I know Liberal's like you only feel and don't think nor understand the intent of the Bill of Rights.
My moral compass as you put it needs no adjusting from ilk like you.
I have handled myself quite well with firearms in the past and surely will continue to do so.
Why don't you educate yourself on the Bill of Rights and then maybe,possibly you might be able to respond in a way that is not indicative of your years in front of the TV watching Oprah.

By the way what is "manslughter" and "assualt"?

I'm liberal for holding people accountable for their actions.

Got me there oh that stings.

Yes I failed HS typing.

Let me tell you about your naive little ways very few people are ever convicted on the first felony they are accused of unless it was a mindless, disgusting crime against a person. So get of your soap box and join the rest of us in reality.

Nextly, I serious doubt the Founding Fathers had a big sense of humor about the dregs that victimized others. I seriously doubt that any of the FF's would forgive someone for murder or rape. I also think they would have little use for someone who committed "honor" crimes forgery, etc. Because people were only as good as their word.

What is your conviction for?

Well other than a few speeding tickets through the years I have had no other dealings with the Judicial System.
Look,there are certainly people that commit crimes that deserve DEATH.
Therefore they will not be owning any guns.
There are others that have been convicted of a felony that you know is based on a law that is ridiculous.
Possession of over an ounce of Marijuana is a felony.
Should such a person lose one of their Constitutional rights for life due to a conviction for breaking such a law?If so,why that one and none of the others?
Can you give me a rational,logical reason and not an emotional one.
You know the type: "It's for the children".

We belong to a society, a society of laws and rules there are social responses when you violate rules. There are societal consequences when you violate laws.

Rights can be restricted, voting, holding public office. Find me the part of the Constitution that says life is fair.

Each person is repsonsible for their actions. If you know that you want to own firearms, then that should be reason enough to avoid committing a felonious act.

Rights also entail responsiblities. If you are a convicted felon you have shown through your behavior that you can not respect other people, other people's property, or societies rules, or combinations thereof.

They kick people out of the military for felonious acts. Why shouldn't you be kicked out of the militia for the same types of acts?? Since the militia aspect is essenstial to the "keep and bear arms", once you are excluded from the militia you are relieved from the rights and responsibilities of that post.

Well, I expect to catch some heat for this..

Sure, the guy may have been a felon, and probably shot that cop.
However, this does not give the local constabulary the right to use quasi military weaponry, nor tactics to force this person out.

Many times, the manufactures of ferret rounds, OC, or CN gas grenades, and flash/bangs have stated that these can constitute a fire hazard..

Even if the combination of the ignition of his carpeting, and the OC gas forced him out, was it right to possibly endanger the surrounding properties in order to speedily apprehend this person? Many "what Ifs" could be played here..
Would simply cutting off his power, and waiting for him to come out, or self destruct without police assistance been so hard for them to do?

Also, what happened to "Due Process"? Yes, he MAY have committed crimes. Now he is dead, maybe by his own hand, maybe not.. The point is, this is NOT how police are supposed to act.

No, I don't want officers to be unarmed, or underarmed. Yes, I do see the need for "No Knock" warrants.. But not a deployment of armed armor. The pictures so far have been of an "Enforcer", and a "V-100/150" armored car..
One, the Enforcer clearly is mounting a loaded M-60. Sorry, but there is no way a department is going to convince me that they NEED a belt fed on their APC. If things are so bad that the police need such, well, that's what local detachments of the National Guard are for.  

This escalating "Us-VS-Them" mentality that exists between the police, and the public is not a healthy sign..

Meplat