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Posted: 8/31/2001 8:28:15 AM EDT
[#1]
I believe you're referring to the Army Rangers who were killed in Mogadishu, in Somalia, back in 1993, during the Clinton presidency on one of his more famous 'meals on wheels' debacles.
Sure Bush the First started it, but Clinton kept it going long after it was necessary. Go to [url]http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/ambush/[/url] if you don't mind getting material from that left wing Frontline show on PBS! Eric The(IfYouCanCallItA'Presidency')Hun[>]:) |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 8:33:30 AM EDT
[#2]
This was on the board the other day:
[url]http://www.philly.com/packages/somalia/nov16/default16.asp[/url] Good site! Mike |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 8:34:35 AM EDT
[#3]
Read the book Blackhawk Down. Tells the whole story in vivid detail.
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Posted: 8/31/2001 8:39:00 AM EDT
[#4]
that's the one.
Thanks for the info. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 9:05:57 AM EDT
[#5]
Just got finished with Black Hawk Down. Despite the losses and everything going FUBAR it was a success, they completed their mission.
A few things I got out the book were: 1) Armored backup is a good thing to have in case you need it. 2) Troops should never leave their night vision behind even if it's a day light mission. 3) The SS109 round has the draw back of going straight through your target which makes it difficult to tell if you killed your target or not and will take several rounds to drop the target on the spot. 4) The U.S. needs to really think about getting involved in these internal conflicts of other countries if we're not willing to fully commit! [img]http://www.ncsg.org/topohat-small.jpg[/img] |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 9:23:18 AM EDT
[#6]
That's right, Sweep. We lost 18 brave, tough men that day, but losses among the Somalis were estimated at between 1000 and 1500.
Your four points are also spot-on. Freedom isn't free Semper Fidelis Jarhead out. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 9:26:48 AM EDT
[#7]
If I recall correctly, the Italian commander rejected requests for armor.
I still remember those guys being dragged through the street. Semper Fi! Ken Little |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 9:31:54 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: If I recall correctly, the Italian commander rejected requests for armor. I still remember those guys being dragged through the street. Semper Fi! Ken Little They ended up getting some Maylasians or something to drive their APCs in there, and Rangers had to hold guns to the vehicle commanders' heads, according to BHD. Of course, if Clinton and Aspin had un-assed the M1A1s and APCs that the ground commanders were begging for, we wouldn't be having this conversation now. Armor is a [b]necessity[/b] when attempting to pacify a built up area, especially when the locals are not heavily armed. RPGs and RPKs would have had the same affect on an M1A1 that the Polish Cavalry had on Panzers during the Blitzkrieg. I'll never forget the sight of those Rangers being drug through the streets and tossed around either. We should have brought in a bigger hammer at that point. Freedom isn't free Semper Fidelis Jarhead out. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 9:47:20 AM EDT
[#9]
One other FUBAR was to pull off the AC130s away. According to the TFRs i have spoken at [url]www.cinemayhem.com[/url] BHD forum, it could have made a decisive impact on the Somalis and their roadblocks, which would have aided for a more rapid exfil or the rapid arrival of backup.
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Posted: 8/31/2001 9:50:27 AM EDT
[#10]
i'm reading a book called MARS UNMASKED: THE CHANGING FACE OF URBAN WARFARE which brings up mogadishu as a reference to modern urban warfare and the snafu's of modern american urban tactics.
while i dont necessarily like the military training for MOUT, it will be necessary to our success in wars in the future. but at the same time, i agree with sweep, we dont need to be in most of the little conflicts we are involved in anyway. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 1:18:39 PM EDT
[#11]
As has been pointed out it wasn't the Marines and the SF snd Rangers (also a few PJs and SEALS) didn't get massacred but gave a very good account of themselves. One could make a good argument that it is they who did the massacring.
Lots of things could ahve helped, a mech/armor team in back-up, Spectre, a bn+ of the 101st with a heavy gunship compliment, and a MEU floating off the coast. Best would probably have been a foreing policy put togther by people with a collective IQ higher than 32 that weren't heavily into mind altering substances. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 6:42:06 PM EDT
[#12]
The Marines did some combined arms raids/attacks prior to the hand over of control to the Army. But when the Marines did the attacks, they had tanks, helos, LAVs, AMTRACs and grunt involved. That is the one benefits of always fighting as a MAGTF, we bring all the combat toys to play with us every time, vice having to go to the UN and ask for assistance to help American troops.
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