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Posted: 8/24/2001 9:50:57 PM EDT
Arrgh!!! I can't decide! I have a glock 22 2nd generation frame. I have two holsters for it, 3 hi cap mags, night sites, the works. It has never failed me in any way, and I love having 15 + 1. Trouble is, it feels like sh*t in my hand. I have never gotten comfortable with it. I've tried slip-on grips and they make it worse. A while ago I tried my friend's Springfield 1911 and I loved it. I was more accurate with it then the glock. But 7 + 1 cuts my capicity in half. I've also heard stories that some 1911's can be unreliable. I got the glock private sale from a another friend (no paperwork), which is another reason to hang on to it. I've agonized over this for weeks. I don't want both. Would you guys ditch the glock for the 1911? Should I keep the hi cap mags? HELP!
Link Posted: 8/24/2001 9:53:50 PM EDT
If you can shoot better with the 1911, there's no need for the hi-cap crutch.
Link Posted: 8/24/2001 9:54:38 PM EDT
I am going to answer your question. The Glock is a better weapon than the 1911 in so many ways, one can simply say it's "better" without having to go into the details. The 1911 is the equivilent of a very modern blackpowder gun, with it's single action, single stack design. There is only 1 valid reason to choose a 1911 over a Glock, or a similar modern gun. That is the reason you gave. If the Glock dosn't fit your hand right, sell it, and get a gun that does. No matter how modern, or fancy, if the gun dosn't suit you, get something that does.
Link Posted: 8/24/2001 10:11:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/24/2001 10:17:33 PM EDT
keep the glock and buy a COLT 1911 Landon the things you say is 1911 blashphemy, and could "git ya strung up"
Link Posted: 8/24/2001 10:17:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SGB: Every major combat handgun shooter uses a 1911
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Pavel Dimvakov of the Czech Rep uses a CZ. Mip Dentchluer of Israel uses an UZI made pistol. The only reason the 1911 is so popular amongst American handgunners is because it's homegrown. Not because it's the best. The CZ is to Europe what the 1911 is to the US. Your Glock is fine, but if you want a 1911, get one. Matter of fact, I have one I want to swap.
Link Posted: 8/24/2001 10:29:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Landon: Your Glock is fine, but if you want a 1911, get one. Matter of fact, I have one I want to swap.
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Do tell...
Link Posted: 8/24/2001 10:30:38 PM EDT
the reason why the 1911 is popular that it can be BUILT!!! a glock cant. ive heard of more kabooms with glocks than 1911s one thing i dont get, you can pay $500 for a glock, half plastic/half metal OR pay the same price for a colt 1911 which is ALL machined metal -- seems to me the half plastic guns should be half price ?
Link Posted: 8/24/2001 11:03:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2001 11:03:33 PM EDT by Landon]
Er, LAGunman, Glocks don't need to be "Built". They are fine right out of the box. Yes, 1911's are all machined metal. But, today, in the year 2001, we are in the polymer age. Planes used to have propellers, and cars used to be horses. Now, while a prop plane can still fly, and a horse can still transport, we have since made advances. Same applies to guns. Advances in materials, advances in design (For christs sake, the 1911 dosn't even have a feed ramp!) and so on. The 1911 is a relic. So, you keep buying box stock 1911's and sinking $$$ into them. My Glocks and HS2000's work fine right out of the box.
Link Posted: 8/25/2001 12:09:35 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/25/2001 12:14:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By VA-gunnut: Why not just send the Glock out to have the grip reduced. I hear that it will give you the feel you are looking for.
Thats the first I've heard of that. My hands are plenty large (I can almost palm a full size basketball) Could you provide a link or something? Much thanks.
Link Posted: 8/25/2001 12:28:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/25/2001 12:56:52 AM EDT
The CZ is to Europe what the 1911 is to the US.
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Say again?? CZ is popular over here because they are relatively cheap. But most men who served in the military over here used the Browning FN HiPower and the .30M1 carbine and or M1 Garand until late fifties. After that HiPower and FAL. Right now, most popular weapons are the Glock17 and C7/C8. The AR15 is the most popular rifle/carbine to own right now, probably only matched by the SIG's/AUG's and HK93
Link Posted: 8/25/2001 1:18:33 AM EDT
dillweed -- should go over to the 1911forums and check things out there, before making the decision. if a 1911 aint your thing then go for a SIG. Just another 1911 fan here, FYI 1911 does NOT need a feed ramp. if it did it would have one, 90 years of history, serving many branchs of the military around the world, and several world wars. it dont get much better than that, and the guns popularity has only gotten better in recent years. if ya need a feed ramp then get the barrel ramped, need a hi cap gun get a para ordinance. i recently got my first custom 1911, and on the same day shot a glock 22. there is NO comparison a tuned 1911 trigger kicks ass over a glock trigger any day. i couldnt hit shit with the glock either, and comparison groups showed the 1911 was just as accurate if not more so than the glock. it was also quite difficult griping the glock after my hand grew comfy on the grip of a 1911 (different grip angles). the glock is a good gun and will be around for a long time, but id like to see a new design come out of glock instead of the carbon copy guns with different calibers that they been spitting out for over a decade. heck ...my dad owns 6 glocks now(just got another), SIGs, and carries a S&W for work, and owns over a dozen various 1911s. and even he says ya cant beat a 1911. [b]LONG LIVE THE 1911[/b]
Link Posted: 8/25/2001 1:25:03 AM EDT
Personally I would keep the 22 and save up and buy a 1911. I am a recent convert to 1911 fandom from being a glock fan. There is nothing like a nice single action trigger, puts the glock mush to shame. Get a full size Kimber BTW. [:D]
Link Posted: 8/25/2001 3:14:40 AM EDT
Get the 1911 man it;s still the best damn gun ever. Now to fare I have not had one for some time but I wanted the high caps and don't DA 1911s so I got a Glock(don't DA any thing) But if I could have any thing I wanted I would go are back to 1911.
Link Posted: 8/25/2001 3:31:43 AM EDT
dill-- I just did (waiting on the funds for the Glock to show up) the same thing. The gun I am selling is a Glock 22 also. I already have a Kimber full sized and a Colt Commander, so I probably won't get another 1911. I will probably wind up with another Beretta 92. I will keep my Glock 20, because it is a 10 mm. But the 22 just didn't "do" it for me--the Glock trigger is "different"--not crisp and clean like a good single action or long and regular like a good double action. I have never taken the time to practice, practice, practice with the Glock--and that is what you really have to do to get proficient with it. The Glock is a good gun in and of itself, but the 1911 fits me much better. I also learned to shoot on a Taurus 99, so I am very comfortable with a Beretta also. The money from the Glock will be much better spent on another Beretta, or towards another favorite--the HK P7. AFARR
Link Posted: 8/25/2001 4:14:19 AM EDT
keep the g22 and find you another pistol.also a sure fire way to fall in love all over again is to shoot a large frame Glock say a 21.now that fu%*ing thing is big but hey its a double stack .45
Link Posted: 8/25/2001 4:54:32 AM EDT
Yes, 1911's are all machined metal. But, today, in the year 2001, we are in the polymer age
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We are also in the age of "alternative lifestyles." That doesn't mean homosexuality is better than heterosexuality. I intend to keep my (female) wife. 1911 or Glock; male or female: It's a personal choice. Eddie
Link Posted: 8/25/2001 5:06:04 AM EDT
If you shoot the 1911 better, get it. You won't regret it.
Link Posted: 8/25/2001 5:06:53 AM EDT
NEVER, EVER GET RID OF A GUN! That being said, get a 1911, especially a Kimber. If you like that Springfield and it shoots well, get it. It is a good one to be cherished! I think 1911s have it all over Glocks. Glock triggers just suck.
Link Posted: 8/25/2001 5:15:41 AM EDT
Try a friends 1911 and see if you fall in love. There is no "best gun" - I can hardly even see the point in this debate. The gun that [b]you[/b] shoot best and works reliably is [b]your[/b] "best gun". [:)] Case closed. Tyler
Link Posted: 8/25/2001 5:22:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:
Originally Posted By dillweed: Thats the first I've heard of that. My hands are plenty large (I can almost palm a full size basketball) Could you provide a link or something? Much thanks.
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I don't know a link off the top of my head. I believe the companies name is Robar. You send them the pistol and they rework the grip to give it a strait backstrap. It is supposed to be similiar to the 1911 in feel if I remember correctly. They do quality work from what I have heard. I myself like my G22 the way it is so I haven't tried it myself. If I find a link I will post it. I know I have seen there adds in some gun publications.
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I have 2 Sigs that I had refinished by Robar. They are state-of-the-art in everything they do! I highly recommend them! [url]http://www.robarguns.com[/url] Tyler
Link Posted: 8/25/2001 5:41:20 AM EDT
I have a Glock 23 I like it, but bought it on a cop discount from the regional dealer. It is a semiauto revolver. But we have had 1 blow up on the range. And that was with factory ammo. The 1911 is my prefered handgun for social work I have 3. It is tough easy to fix and eats handloads all day long. Each has their limitations but the 1911 is a better gun. As for technology, I have seen alot come an d go I prefer the ones that keep on going.....1911
Link Posted: 8/25/2001 6:01:06 AM EDT
I have a Glock 23 I like it, but bought it on a cop discount from the regional dealer. It is a semiauto revolver.
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I'm not familiar with those. Eddie
Link Posted: 8/25/2001 6:23:16 AM EDT
I like the glocks and 1911s but if I was going to spend 500 bones on either it would be the glock, specifically the G23. I shoot my buddies regullarly and it is one of the best gun I have shot. First time out I shot soup cans at 20yds, not bad I think for shooting an unfamilar gun. Yes the trigger is differant but it's a differant type of trigger people! Practice will make it no differant to you than any other. TylerD is right, the best gun for you is the one that SHOOTS best for you. I am also a huge fan of the Beretta 92s. BrenLover
Link Posted: 8/25/2001 9:04:19 AM EDT
Wait a year. HSarms should have out a .45 by then. I don't like the way glocks feel either, but the HS fits me like a glove. If the pricing for the HS guns stay the same, you should be able to sell your glock and get 2 HS 45's for it. You know what that means: Chow Yun Fat time!
Link Posted: 8/26/2001 1:34:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/26/2001 6:43:32 PM EDT
they are apples and oranges...tylerdurden and m16man are right on, the best gun for anyone is the gun that they like to shoot best. I own a glock 26, great little ccw gun. my best friend has a springfield 1911. i just love to shoot that gun! of course he likes to shoot my glock but both of us would take the 1911 if we could only have one gun. my advise to you, is to try your best to keep the glock and get a 1911 of your choice. you will love both and my best to you....
Link Posted: 8/26/2001 7:20:24 PM EDT
One hole to hell. The bigger the better! Good Luck
Link Posted: 8/26/2001 7:29:10 PM EDT
Glocks great for experts? Maybe it takes an expert to be precise with that trigger. But, I've never heard of an expert using one! Choosey shooters choose good triggers. Let me know when someone shoots a 1" 50 yard group with a Glock.
Link Posted: 8/26/2001 7:36:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/26/2001 7:46:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Landon: I am going to answer your question. The Glock is a better weapon than the 1911 in so many ways, one can simply say it's "better" without having to go into the details. The 1911 is the equivilent of a very modern blackpowder gun, with it's single action, single stack design.
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Base on what? Your opinion?
Link Posted: 8/26/2001 7:46:23 PM EDT
Go to a GSSF match you will see some very impressive shooters. KEEP THE GLOCK.......
Link Posted: 8/26/2001 7:54:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2001 8:07:04 PM EDT by QCMGR]
Originally Posted By Landon:
Originally Posted By SGB: Every major combat handgun shooter uses a 1911
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Pavel Dimvakov of the Czech Rep uses a CZ. Mip Dentchluer of Israel uses an UZI made pistol. The only reason the 1911 is so popular amongst American handgunners is because it's homegrown. Not because it's the best. The CZ is to Europe what the 1911 is to the US. Your Glock is fine, but if you want a 1911, get one. Matter of fact, I have one I want to swap.
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Funny thing, the CZ, Glock, etc. are based on the Browning operating principal and we all know J.M. Browning Designed the What? Lets see? Landon...say it....The 1911!
Link Posted: 8/26/2001 9:21:36 PM EDT
Keep the glock, and add the .45 They will peacfully coexist, and nirvanna will be achieved. Think how quick you could spend $500 on other bullshit and have nothing to show for it. The Kimbers don't rattle, but the others are good too.
Link Posted: 8/26/2001 9:37:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2001 9:38:57 PM EDT by BusMaster007]
Look at the Para LDA for a happy in between... .45; 10-shots; 1911 platform; no second strike capability either. Hmmm. Don't get rid of a gun was good advice, too. Glock makes .45's. The grip can be altered. Man, whatta dilemma! I'd wait a bit and do some serious homework. Check out the Beretta 8045 Cougar while you're at it and see if your hand likes it. 8+1. Second strike capable. You may like the way it works. Good luck.
Link Posted: 8/26/2001 10:15:57 PM EDT
Keep it, save up for the 1911, you'll be glad that you did. [heavy]
Link Posted: 8/27/2001 8:19:30 AM EDT
Get the gun that you shoot best, that will be your "best gun". I prefer the 1911 over any other handgun because that is the handgun that I shoot best and feels best in my hand. Landon said: "The 1911 is a relic. So, you keep buying box stock 1911's and sinking $$$ into them. My Glocks and HS2000's work fine right out of the box." My Springfield TRP 1911 is far from a relic, it incorporates new advances in metallurgy and machining. Yes the design is old but the gun is new. And I've not had to sink any dollars into it. It is perfect out of the box and has been 100% reliable and shoots more accurately than any Glock (17,20,21), Sig (220, 226) or HK (USP 45) I have had. I don't see the single stack as a disadavantage for civilian use either, most shoot-outs only last a few shots. My TRP holds 8+1, and I always carry a spare mag, if that can't handle the problem, then it's a problem a pistol can't take care of.
Link Posted: 8/27/2001 8:37:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/27/2001 8:38:08 AM EDT by ECS]
If you decide to get a 1911 pistol remember that the mainspring housing can be flat or arched. Try each one if you can and get the one that feels best. Currently the flat housing is in vogue but I shoot the arched one best so that's what I use. Also, with the 1911 design you can put different length triggers in if you want to vary the length of pull.
Link Posted: 8/27/2001 8:37:51 AM EDT
Pavel Dimvakov of the Czech Rep uses a CZ. Mip Dentchluer of Israel uses an UZI made pistol. The only reason the 1911 is so popular amongst American handgunners is because it's homegrown. Not because it's the best. The CZ is to Europe what the 1911 is to the US. Your Glock is fine, but if you want a 1911, get one. Matter of fact, I have one I want to swap. [/quote] The 1911 is superior to the various DA designs, and it is superior to the Glock. Single action triggers and good ergonomics is where it's at, and the 1911 has these. So do several other pistols: the CZ-75, Browning HP, and Sig P-210 come to mind. The CZ-75 has the option of double action, which is a nice touch for a "house gun", I suppose, but it isn't a major advantage. But the 1911 isn't popular here simply because it is homegrown. It is superior to the "modern designs". The only designs which can compete are those that are based upon it--like the CZ, HP, and P-210. So, you are probably correct that the 1911 isn't "best". The Europeans have made some varients of the 1911 which are pretty much as good, and which offer minor advantages and disadvantages.
Link Posted: 8/27/2001 8:43:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By VA-gunnut: This is the way it was explained to me. The Glock is a great gun for beginners and experts. It is all the folks in between that have a problem with them.
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I don't know of any experts who like them, but they are popular with bureaucrats and snot-nosed kids.
Link Posted: 8/27/2001 8:49:29 AM EDT
Find someone with a third gen frame. If you like the feel better, GLOCK will swap them out for you for a fee. The finger grips and thumb rest make a world of difference to me. Before I found out they would do this I sold my 2nd gen G23 to get a 3rd gen. If that doesn't work, get a gun that feels right and hits what you aim it at. I would try to do it without selling what you have. For those who don't like the GLOCK trigger, the G35 comes with a 3.5# trigger that is A LOT better than standard (for me). It can be installed as an upgrade pretty easily.
Link Posted: 8/27/2001 8:50:49 AM EDT
Colt 1911A MP special!! [sniper]
Link Posted: 8/27/2001 8:51:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DonS: The 1911 is superior to the various DA designs, and it is superior to the Glock.
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Hahahahaha... [:D] [b]NOT[/b] It is not in the gun, it is in the shooter. Tyler
Link Posted: 8/27/2001 8:52:20 AM EDT
On the "keep the Glock, buy the 1911" type of reply: unless you modify the Glock's grip, it will point very differently than the 1911. Consequently, it is foolish to put serious training into both. Anyone who is "good" with both can't be great with either. Quick target aquisition is where it's at, and to that end you want your serious pistols to point the same. If you end up with both, I propose only putting serious traning into [i]one[/i] of them, and since the 1911 will result in much better performance much quicker, that is probably the one you will use. The only reason I see for keeping the Glock is that you obtained it via a personal transaction. I assume you live in California. It's nice to have something the fascists don't know about.
Link Posted: 8/27/2001 9:02:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By tylerdurden1201:
Originally Posted By DonS: The 1911 is superior to the various DA designs, and it is superior to the Glock.
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Hahahahaha... [:D] [b]NOT[/b] It is not in the gun, it is in the shooter. Tyler
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No, it is due to both. A good shooter can get good groups from a weapon with a substandard trigger, but at the cost of going slower. Or, he can go just as fast, but he will sacrifize accuracy. Glocks and "modern" DA autos impose a handicap. True, a superior shooter may still win despite that handicap, if he is sufficiently better than his competition. But he has to overcome that handicap.
Link Posted: 8/27/2001 9:03:17 AM EDT
Try out a Sig P220. It, like the venerable 1911, is also chambered for the finest combat handgun round yet devised. It's light, if you're into that, but it's not made of plastic. It's DA/SA and it doesn't have the scratchy, twangy feel of a Glock trigger. It's also a John Browning design and you don't need to play the preban-hicap game (not that the mags are inexpensive, come to think of it...). Just a thought. Rich NRA, GOA, LEAA, CCRN
Link Posted: 8/27/2001 9:32:23 AM EDT
DonS Are you serious? Only concentrate on one cause you wont be great at both? That's like saying "If your a great kisser don't bother fuc%ing cause you wont be great at both, so why try", "If you own a car with an automatic, dont buy a stick, you will never drive it as well". It is the person! NOT the GUN. When I shot my buddies Glock the first time I went into in open minded (a rare commodity these days) and practiced till I got it down reasonably well. More practice will get me better. You cannot compare a tricked out $1000-$2000 19911 to a standard glock. They would be made to do two vary differnent things, 1911 target shooting, Glock Combat/Carry (I am not saying you couldn't use the 1911 for that as well) I like the 1911 quite well, it does feel nice, shoots a good round etc. I prefer the glock because it is IMHO better suited to concieled carry/combat use, it eliminates two fine motor skills typically used by 1911s which can slow you down under high stress. 1.) No seperate saftey to dissengage to shoot. Simply draw and shoot. 2.) No slide release required. This is technically true with the 1911 also but most shooters are trained and used to useing the lever. Glock slide release levers are not meant to be used in the same manner. Glock recommends grasping the slide pulling back and re-aquiring grip. I practice this method always when shooting the glock and it is easier, quicker, requires no sight to do and does not require the shifting of grip of the shooting hand. Just my observations and beliefs. I would keep the glock, save for the 1911 and practice with both until you become proficient. BrenLover
Link Posted: 8/27/2001 10:31:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By M16Man: DonS Are you serious? Only concentrate on one cause you wont be great at both? That's like saying "If your a great kisser don't bother fuc%ing cause you wont be great at both, so why try", "If you own a car with an automatic, dont buy a stick, you will never drive it as well".
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Since both pistols point differently, you cannot truely master both. When you get past the basics of slowfire and get into fast target aquistion drills, this becomes apparent. Gunfights can be won or lost on fractions of a second, so it makes sense to me to maximize your performance. Something you won't do if you switch between guns that point differently. The sex anaolgy is a poor one; kissing and fuc%ing don't rely and the same fine tuned training that combat shooting does, and practicing one does not degrade the other. If I practice with my 1911, on the other hand, when I try rapid target aquistion with a Glock I'm poiting high when I flash the sight picture. If I got good with the Glock, I'd no doubt be pointing the 1911 low. If I got "good" with both, I'd have to spend some amount of time during presentation figuring out which one I was using (Couscous knowledge of which I am carrying will not be enough).
Originally Posted By M16Man: It is the person! NOT the GUN.
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It is both. The person is more important than the gun, so you are almost right. However, by training with different systems the person is degrading his performance.
Originally Posted By M16Man: When I shot my buddies Glock the first time I went into in open minded (a rare commodity these days) and practiced till I got it down reasonably well. More practice will get me better.
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When I shot Glocks slowfire, they were fine. They were less accurate than a 1911, but that was OK. It is when I tried them in rapid target aquistion drills (and may to man duels) that I realized they were not for me. I did not approach Glocks with a closed mind. In fact, I thought they would be a good stand in for a 1911 under certain circumstances like backpacking and sailing, where plastic would be an advantage.
Originally Posted By M16Man: You cannot compare a tricked out $1000-$2000 19911 to a standard glock. They would be made to do two vary differnent things, 1911 target shooting, Glock Combat/Carry (I am not saying you couldn't use the 1911 for that as well)
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A 1911 doesn't need to cost $1000 to out shoot the Glock. A Kimber will do it out of the box, and at most a Springfield will need a trigger job.
Link Posted: 8/27/2001 10:37:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By M16Man: I prefer the glock because . . . it eliminates two fine motor skills typically used by 1911s which can slow you down under high stress. 1.) No seperate saftey to dissengage to shoot. Simply draw and shoot.
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The 1911's safety is properly disengaged during presentation. Done correctly, it does not slow the user down one bit. It has to be practiced until it is automatic. However, this doesn't require more time to practice, since it is done as part of your normal practice routine. The Glock's safety is part of the final trigger pull--it will [i]always[/i] slow you down. I suppose it is true that the Glock does provide you with one less thing to fumble, but it does so by making the most critical thing--trigger squeeze--easier to fumble.
Originally Posted By M16Man: 2.) No slide release required. This is technically true with the 1911 also but most shooters are trained and used to useing the lever. Glock slide release levers are not meant to be used in the same manner. Glock recommends grasping the slide pulling back and re-aquiring grip. I practice this method always when shooting the glock and it is easier, quicker, requires no sight to do and does not require the shifting of grip of the shooting hand.
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If you are happy doing it this way, you can do it with a 1911, too. Myself, I'm left handed and the 1911s slide release is within the grasp of my index finger. No need for me to shift my hand to release the slide. However, I don't see this as one of the more important aspect of combat pistolcraft. If I spent a whole 1911 magazine and haven't solved my immediate problems, they probably are not solvable with a pistol, anyway, at least not by me . . . If you prefer Glocks, by all means use them. Just don't make the mistake of trying to maximize your proficiency with both. Owning both is OK, I suppose, I like toys just like anyone else. [b]But if you are serious about your combat shooting, choose one type and do your training with that![/b]
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