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Posted: 8/24/2001 2:33:48 AM EDT
Ok I meet this guy today that thinks the NAR is a big sale out.So he tells me all about the Gun Owners of America(goa) and how they are sooooooo much better at giting things done. I whent to the GOA web site and they say the same thing. Give me some feed back here I don't know what to think.Befor I jump to the GOA I damn well better be doing the right thing but I will if they get the job done.
Link Posted: 8/24/2001 4:47:28 AM EDT
I am a member of both organizations. I joined the NRA to support their safety, education, range development, etc. programs. I do not give to ILA or PVF. I joined the GOA because they are the no-compromise group that protects our RKBA. They engage only in lobbying.
Link Posted: 8/24/2001 5:08:21 AM EDT
Well, since you asked.... First I like GOA's stance and both organization are needed but the truth is GOA hasn't gotten anything done. With GOA's stance the only thing that they can do is to kill a bill, both pro-gun and anti-gun. GOA issued a statement about Michigan's new shall issue CCW, totally blasting it saying it was the worst law that they had ever seen passed and that we would be better without it. When I checked to see what GOA did to help Michigan get a good shall issue CCW law, I found out that they didn't do one damn thing. They didn't even alert their members that shall issue CCW was even being discussed in Michigan. WTF type of organization is this when they will not even notify their members of what is going on in their state. The fact that they did absolutely nothing and then complain about the results, really pisses me off. And how dare they say that I would be better off if I had no right to carry a firearm than if I had a right with a couple restrictions. When I asked them about this, they never replied. On the other hand, I feel the NRA is too soft sometimes and leans towards making sure they don't offend the "hunters and sportsmen" who see no reason people should own an AR-15. Rumor has it that the NRA is not going to make a big deal out of the AW ban sunset and that they are expecting it to be renewed. But instead of complaining about what the NRA won't do, I would suggest joining them and letting them know where you stand and what you feel is important.
Link Posted: 8/24/2001 6:26:29 AM EDT
GOA talks tough, but they do not have the clout they say they have. The NRA is responsible for helping to put Bush in office. The GOA can talk no compromise, but that does not happen in politics. This is the real world, sometimes you have to bargain.
Link Posted: 8/24/2001 6:28:43 AM EDT
I think if you convert part of your subject to lowercase letters, then you'll have an accurate statement. In other words, "gun owners of America versus the NRA." I've never understood why people who go out into the woods and kill animals are the sacred cow of gun politics for the NRA. That wasn't the intention of the second amendment. I grew-up being told, and I still believe, that the second was simply there to protect the first. I don't remember hunting being mentioned in the constitution.
With GOA's stance the only thing that they can do is to kill a bill, both pro-gun and anti-gun.
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Some of us might feel that killing every single gun-related bill is a good idea. Other than a (very) few CCW state laws, how many favorable gun-related laws have you seen? Maybe I'm just old and cynical, but I'm tired of politics. To turn this discussion from complaints to action, what gun organization do you guys think most represents our views? I want an organization that would be the opposite of, for example, South Carolina GrassRoots. They're great at talking about laws, but don't care a bit about making sure that existing pro-gun owner laws already on the books are enforced. I guess that's because you can raise more money by making noise about scary new bills than you can about dull details like making sure the state police process CWP applications.
Link Posted: 8/24/2001 8:20:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2001 8:21:58 AM EDT by KBaker]
To paraphrase some of the comments above: The NRA is willing to "compromise" (i.e. give up some of our rights) in order to prevent even worse legislation from passing. This is the "death-by-a-thousand-cuts" method, but it is slower than the alternative. The NRA leadership views the GOA as a Quixotic organization that cannot achieve anyting useful except diverting money from the NRA coffers. The GOA never met a gun law it liked - period. The GOA leadership veiws the NRA as the Anti-Christ. It has no power to get anything repealed, but it has had some success in getting some legislation killed. I belong to both groups, and am considering joining Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (JPFO). They are mostly interested in educating the public. As far as I am concerned, THAT is the most important thing that can be done. The NRA is too badly demonized by the media and the GOA is just too far out for Jane Soccermom to relate too. Besides, how can the media demonize the JPFO? (Edited because I'm dyslexic and it's J[b]PF[/b]O)
Link Posted: 8/24/2001 9:03:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SWIRE: Well, since you asked.... On the other hand, I feel the NRA is too soft sometimes and leans towards making sure they don't offend the "hunters and sportsmen" who see no reason people should own an AR-15. Rumor has it that the NRA is not going to make a big deal out of the AW ban sunset and that they are expecting it to be renewed.
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I joined the NRA three weeks ago, and when I did one of the things I received was a little folding card titled "NRA Firearm Facts 2001: The Right to Keep and Bear Arms." In it, it list several different gun related topics, one of which is current issues. The last issues is as follows" [B]The federal "assault weapon" law affects firearms never widely used in crime, a fact noted by a study conducted by Congress [The Urban Institue, "Impact Evaluations of the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act of 1994," 3/13/1997.] The law unfairly restricts semi-automatic rifles which have for decades been widely used in organized target shooting events and with which, for national defense purposes, citizens should be able to maintain familiarity and proficiency. The law expires in Sept. 2004."[/B] That is the section, verbatim, and I hope the NRA does not get mad at me for reproducing it here. It does appear they are aware of it, and at least state they are against it. Hopefully that translates into them lobbying to make sure it stays dead once it sunsets in 2004. -- God Bless Texas
Link Posted: 8/24/2001 9:52:39 AM EDT
NRA is the most effective organization. But we must not let our internal differences become fuel for the anits. I do not hunt, yet regularly thank my hunter friends for keeping those damn deer under control. I do not shoot clays, but do go out with a friend as it helps me use my riot gun. I am bothered alittle by the lackluster attitude towards black guns, since that is my interest. But that only goes internal, not outside of the gun family. I am a Life NRA, We are the NRA!
Link Posted: 8/24/2001 10:05:31 AM EDT
The NRA is the ONLY pro-gun group with the FINANCIAL clout to get things done in DC. I agree with GOA's view that gun laws are bad(mostly, we DO need gun laws that are aimed ONLY at criminal use).
Link Posted: 8/24/2001 10:16:18 AM EDT
Ditto timh70.
Link Posted: 8/24/2001 10:47:53 AM EDT
"mostly, we DO need gun laws that are aimed ONLY at criminal use" Crap like this is the only thing than makes me think that maybe the NRA is not so great. Most peopel in the NRA think this way and it's BULKL SHIT! it has NEVER been ok for criminals to have guns!!!!!! not 1776 and not now. Why in Gods name whould you let there foot in the door? No law will make a criminal do or not do a damn thing come on! we all know that. I just about had all the hunter crap I can stand thats why I am thinking about going to the GOA,even if the GOA is not some great it will make the NRA cut the crap if we start to leave. What will old Chuck say now "they can have my gun if they compromise out of my cold dead fingers"
Link Posted: 8/24/2001 11:06:03 AM EDT
I am a proud Life member of the NRA and it is good to see some dialogue that is not NRA bashing. I truely believe, were it not for NRA, we would not be enjoying the freedoms we have to own guns today. I believe in what GOA wants to do but they are ineffective. NRA is our only hope, so I will stand behind them 100%. Thanks, Jim Hall
Link Posted: 8/24/2001 1:28:38 PM EDT
instead of bitching about the NRA, how about lobbying them to represent "assualt weapon" owners as much as they represent hunters. Join and send a letter with your dues. The NRA at least has some say in washington instead of dividing ourselves, let's get them to work for us.
Link Posted: 8/24/2001 1:34:46 PM EDT
Man if knew the damn letters I have sent them. I don't want to give up on them but I fel a lil like I was BSed in to Joinning.
Link Posted: 8/24/2001 5:32:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2001 5:34:03 PM EDT by timh70]
Originally Posted By a2car: "mostly, we DO need gun laws that are aimed ONLY at criminal use" Crap like this is the only thing than makes me think that maybe the NRA is not so great. Most peopel in the NRA think this way and it's BULKL SHIT! it has NEVER been ok for criminals to have guns!!!!!! not 1776 and not now. Why in Gods name whould you let there foot in the door? No law will make a criminal do or not do a damn thing come on! we all know that. I just about had all the hunter crap I can stand thats why I am thinking about going to the GOA,even if the GOA is not some great it will make the NRA cut the crap if we start to leave. What will old Chuck say now "they can have my gun if they compromise out of my cold dead fingers"
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a2car, the Constitution itself sets precedence for laws against felons owning guns. So, the ONLY way to enforce that is with a law. If there is no law, there is no criminal. But I DO NOT support any law restricting a law abiding citizen from owning or buying as many guns as he/she wishes, or having to wait.
Link Posted: 8/24/2001 8:39:29 PM EDT
Whether each one of us is a member of the NRA and/or GOA, etc is not the question. The question is, what have each of us done personally besides contributing to ILA or GOA to promote our 2nd Amendment rights. Did each of us personally campaigned for a pro-gun candidate or against an anti-gun candidate? The NRA and GOA can only be in so many places at once, but each of us can be where they are not. The anti-gunners are waging a personal battle against each of us gunners. In their minds, when they defeat a NRA/GOA sponsored legislation, in their minds they have defeated each one of us personally. So the antis have taken off their glove and slapped us across the face, and dared the gunners, so what are you going to do about it.
Link Posted: 8/25/2001 3:07:03 AM EDT
"the Constitution itself sets precedence for laws against felons owning guns" THATS THE DAMN LAW AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH TRHATS WHAT I MEAN @#$%^&*()*&^%$#@$%&*()*&^%$#%^&*() IT'S NOT!!! OK FOR THEM TO HAVE GUNS!! DAMN THE CONSTITUTION DOSE NOT NEED TO BE FIXED IT'S FINE AND IF WE STICK TO IT..................F-E-L-O-N-S C-A-N N-O-T H-A-V-E G-U-N-S EVER! So why in God's name do we ned more laws to say the same thing? This is the cry baby crap that makes so mad at the NRA. Under the Constitution the bad guys can't have any guns for ever, so what if we pass a new law they can't have then for ever and ever. @#$%^&*()*&^%$#@$%&*())*&^ you where a public school kid....right?
Link Posted: 8/26/2001 11:57:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2001 11:57:34 AM EDT by timh70]
read below.
Link Posted: 8/26/2001 11:57:12 AM EDT
Who the fuck do you think you are talking to?? A fucking idiot?? No. I was a military brat so i've had public and private, along with DOD schooling. The Constution states that from a FEDERAL standpoint that felons cannot own guns, so states pass laws that support that, and also set the level of punishment for the crime. Where the fuck did YOU go to school??
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