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Posted: 8/20/2001 4:23:46 PM EDT
Has anyone here ever shot one these things in real life? From what I have read, it is one of the first small arms to ever outclass any available optics... Meaning it can accuratley shoot out to distances further than practical rifle optics can magnify... (Their site talks about 3000 yard shots) Anyone heard the word on these?
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 4:27:57 PM EDT
Gimme!
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 4:37:31 PM EDT
Sounds McFun!
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 5:26:40 PM EDT
Landon: The place to look for info is: [url]http://www.biggerhammer.net/barrett/wwwboard/[/url] Do a search on "Chey-Tac" and "Triggerfifty". Triggerfifty is the guy that wrote the book: "Hard Target Interdiction, the complete .50 cal sniper course". He is involved in the development of the .408 Chey-Tac. Apparently several patents have come out of the development, and optics companies are having to re-design for a 2000+ yard accurate cartridge. The round itself has an INCREASE in ballistic coefficient at a distance (don't ask me to explain it, either). One of the main reasons for it's accuracy is that it remains supersonic (doesn't destabilize as soon as other rounds when they go subsonic) for 1500+ yards. Yes, the optics are NOT up to the task of 2000+ yard shooting, except under the best of conditions. AFARR
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 5:32:52 PM EDT
I should add a couple of things-- EDM Arms--the "Windrunner" people have a single shot .50 action for sale, and will reportedly be making a single shot action for the .408 Chey-Tac. About $1200-1500 for the .50 single shot action, so figure the Chey-Tac will run about the same. K & P may make barrels and assemble the rifle--a completed rifle on the Windrunner single shot action runs about $2800 ($1300 action, $1500 stock, barrel, etc.). The Chey-Tac may run more if it is a take-down system as is a strong possibility. However, to maximize the round, you will need to spend $1500 or more for a premier optical system (a new Nightforce or US Optics designed for the round). AFARR
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 6:03:01 PM EDT
It's said to be supersonic at 3300 yards.
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 10:45:45 PM EDT
The test reports I've read basically said that they quit testing when they could no longer see or aquire the target in their optics. 3,000 + yards. Amazing stuff. I've been looking at the Ferret .50, but I'd like to have one in this round. I wonder how much ammo would cost?
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 11:31:04 PM EDT
It will be banned from civilian ownership and sold only to law enforcement and military.
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 5:14:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2001 5:49:51 AM EDT by Landon]
Originally Posted By greentimber: I've been looking at the Ferret .50, but I'd like to have one in this round. I wonder how much ammo would cost?
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Ammo will be strictly Roll Your Own for a while, i'm guessin. I love my .50, and is [b]realitivley[/b] cheap to shoot in the scale of bigbig bores. It costs much less than a factory .338 Laupa, or any of the other factory loaded big rounds. If i'm not mistaken, the whole ball of wax was is based around a .50 BMG round, so you can figure that even once they get the tooling up and going, CNC's programmed, it will still cost as much if not more than any given 50 ...
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 5:50:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2001 6:34:13 AM EDT by FrankSquid]
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 6:00:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2001 5:55:59 AM EDT by Landon]
Originally Posted By AFARR: However, to maximize the round, you will need to spend $1500 or more for a premier optical system (a new Nightforce or US Optics designed for the round). AFARR
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No doubt. Not to mention how many of us really have access to 1-1/2 or 2 miles of safe, open shooting space to really work the thing out to it's potential? I'm guessin, not too many..
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 6:56:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Landon:
Originally Posted By greentimber: I've been looking at the Ferret .50, but I'd like to have one in this round. I wonder how much ammo would cost?
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Ammo will be strictly Roll Your Own for a while, i'm guessin. I love my .50, and is [b]realitivley[/b] cheap to shoot in the scale of bigbig bores. It costs much less than a factory .338 Laupa, or any of the other factory loaded big rounds. If i'm not mistaken, the whole ball of wax was is based around a .50 BMG round, so you can figure that even once they get the tooling up and going, CNC's programmed, it will still cost as much if not more than any given 50 ...
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The round is based on the .505 Gibs. The brass is not simply necked down. It is newly drawn brass and has been beefed up to withstand the higher pressures. From what I have read, the concept of the .408 was to develope a precision longrange tactical weapon system that gives comparable extended range performance vs the .50 BMG, in a more compact package. Also, because the ammo is smaller and lighter, more ammo can be carried into the field by the operator. [url]www.cheyennetactical.com/index2.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 7:16:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 7:36:40 AM EDT
Hmmmm... 505 Gibbs? Now that I hear that, I am more inclined to lean towards FrankSquid's thinking about the Mach 5... I would think that with the proper .375 Spitzer design, and utilizing the .50 BMG case capacity to it's fullest, it could exceed the Chey-Tac as far as distance abillity... Maybe not with hard target interdiction, but it makes sense to me that with a lighter bullet, and a greater case capacity (The Mach), it would range better. Hmmmm.... I'll call Klaus at State and see what he has to say about this.
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 9:30:11 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 1:46:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 2:22:32 PM EDT
I think a lot of the potential accuracy of the Chey-Tac comes from the bullet design--it is not hard to push a bullet to SCREAMING velocities, but making a bullet that is stable and maintains that stability at long distances is the key. People have been wildcatting rounds for years. That being said, how about a Windrunner with interchangeable barrels (and a pair of dedicated scopes) in .50 BMG and in a .50 BMG necked down to .408 or .375 so it can use the same bullets. I am certain that the new bullet design will work for slightly smaller diameter bullets also--probably not into real small rounds, as they may have to be custom machined. AFARR
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 2:40:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2001 2:39:53 PM EDT by Landon]
Well, the .375 Rounds suffer from poor bullet design. They are meant to be more "smashers" rather than smooth sailers... That being said, the MACH-5's ability to compete with the Chey-Tac would rest on whether or not Klaus is willing to re-chamber the basic design, then, turn a more viable bullet on his lathe. He is an outstanding bulletmaker- His copper solid .50's are world class, but like $3.00 a pop (Just for the projectile!) Does anyone know is Clymer makes .50 size reamers?? I was going to build a .338 Laupa, but I may wildcat out an extra long .375 Holland barrel and chamber it to accept spitzer .375 in a necked .50 case. Lemme see... Barrel- $400 for a good one Reamer- For a .50 size wildcat? I'm guessin $200 .50 Action- $1000 So, all in all, it won't be too bad if I can get the rounds made, and blueprint the action correctly. I have a machinist friend who has been working with me on another project- I'll crank out some .3751 Diamater bullets with a 6.55X55 Swede spitzer bullet design and see how they turn out. I didn't phone Klaus at State yet about the Mach-5, but I will tommorow. Well, now that I think about it, I wonder if there any commercial .375 barrels that can withstand the pressures of the .50? Where does Klaus get his?? Anyone know? Are they Walther? Hmmm....
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 4:27:48 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 4:49:07 PM EDT
Landon, Lothar Walther barrels on the State Arms. Klaus is very busy, but may be interested in the project. If he can get .408 bbls, there should not be a problem in getting something chambered--you can get custom chamber reamers made. If you do contact State Arms, let me know. I live about 3 hours from there. I never got to see him when I got my KC2K--I had it shipped to my dealer. I would be very interested in a similar rifle. Using a .408 barrel with .50 BMG brass might be the way to go--it should generate about the same velocity as the Chey-Tac, can use the Lost River bullets, and I am sure Klaus can make bullets to that size. AFARR
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 5:13:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 5:30:19 PM EDT
That's what makes me wonder why the guys at Cheyenne Tactical used .505 Gibbs to base the round on?~!?! I mean, .50 has the capacity, and is much more commonplace... It has the stregnth too! The only thing I can think of is the .505 Gibbs I assume is rimmed, where the .50 is rimless, maybe that was an issue? Whatever it was, I would rather use .50 for no other reason than available actions, brass, and the like would all be a lot cheaper then re-designing from scratch like with the Chey-Tac, while still retaining the same abillities... The only problem would be suitable bullets meant for distance work.. Each would have to be made 1 at a time on a lathe. The current lot of factory .375 designs just aren't good enough for that kind of wildcat. Does anyone know if Klaus uses his own bullet design in the Mach-5, or does he use factory offerings>? Man. A .375 Wildcat with the proper round design al based on a .50 could be waaaaaaay viable, not to mention all the while staying in the .50 Price range.
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 6:14:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 6:18:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 6:28:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2001 6:24:21 PM EDT by Jack-B-Nymble]
Originally Posted By FrankSquid: From State Arms web site; "The MACH 5 is made from a .50 BMG Shell necked down to a .375 Cal. Test Results recorded solid bronze Bullets at incredible speeds exceeding 5300 feet per second." LMAO 5300 fps!!!! Bronze Bullet? It must be "Klause" made. Hey Landon, do you roll your own? I have a 9 1/2" Twist Barrel and want to start loading for it. I may start with RVO processed brass.
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I bought 200 pieces from RVO, 1rst class outfit! Also, see [url]www.patsreloading.com/patsrel/whatsnew.htm[/url] for projectiles and powder. Pat's a great guy to deal with.
Link Posted: 8/22/2001 10:33:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2001 10:29:54 PM EDT by M24Expert]
Hi Landon; Here's a pic of the Windrunner .408 CT used in the May 2001 tests in Idaho, the brass is .408 CT. Modifications to the weapon have been made since this photo was taken as a result of tests. [img]http://wsphotofews.excite.com/038/jk/Om/YT/EQ43077.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 8/22/2001 10:56:11 PM EDT
why not neck a 20mm vulcan down to 50 call it the 50 vulcan u could get some impressive velocity of of that thing i bet
Link Posted: 8/23/2001 2:33:12 AM EDT
Hey Landon, There was an excellent article in the May 2000 issue of "Tactical Shooter". Also for anyone whose interested they are being sold at www.gunsamerica.com in the Tactical Rifle section. Going price is $7,100 I think. HTH Michael NRA, HRA, GOA, JPFO
Link Posted: 8/23/2001 7:08:32 AM EDT
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