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Posted: 8/19/2001 5:24:31 PM EDT
I GOT TO FLY IN A P-51!!!![<]:)] This guy had one with two seater used to ref. the air races in Reno NV. I have allways liked P-51s my it was Grandad's job to keeo them in the air and he would talk about the planes for hr.s now I got fly in one and it was the coolest thing Ever. I did really like samll planes but it was so cool I did not think about it tell in was back down. Any one have some thing to add? May be one of you guys got your hands on one in WW2.
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 5:32:34 PM EDT
kick ass plane. kinda favor the corsair though.
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 5:42:03 PM EDT
I have flown in a TF-51, a P-51D two seater. It was very loud, very hot, and very cramped. I loved every second of it! [8D]
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 5:53:45 PM EDT
i had a cousin killed in a p-51 over france. downed by ground fire while engaged in straffing the huns. when his body was recovered (the germans actually exchanged dead pilots...early in the war), they found a m.g. round passed thru his heart...he was dead before the radiator hit the dirt. ever since i learned about him, i have loved the fast little mustang!
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 6:03:08 PM EDT
There is a company in Russia that, for $10,000, (excluding airfare) offers 3 days hotel, ground training, and a 2hr flight (I THINK it's 2hrs) in an active-duty Mig-29. That would be pretty kick-ass. Maybe when I win the lottery....
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 6:03:22 PM EDT
Yep.. Nothing like twelve cylinders, that buzzing idle, and the smell of avgas, and prestone.. They make that neat whistling sound, I've only heard from Merlin powered aircraft.. Mustang, Spitfire, and the one Hawker Hurricane I had a chance to fondle, they all did it.. Odd, but very cool.. Meplat
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 7:47:30 PM EDT
A few years ago I read (in Air Power) that the RAF still had 2 Hurricane's on active flight status...!
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 7:57:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jj: kick ass plane. kinda favor the corsair though.
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me too! Corsair is one fast bitch.
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 7:58:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2001 9:28:48 AM EDT by aod308]
My grandfather flew in a B-17 for most of WWII he said the P-51's got the shit shot outa 'em. [edited for my gross stupidity]
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 8:17:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By a2car: P-51 : best damn fighter ever!
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Thats a pretty bold statement. I would vote for the F-15E. However the 51 sure is nice.
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 8:23:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RipMeyer:
Originally Posted By a2car: P-51 : best damn fighter ever!
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Thats a pretty bold statement. I would vote for the F-15E. However the 51 sure is nice.
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I would have to go with Rocky Marciano! [:D]
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 8:24:27 PM EDT
I kinda of like the slow but deadly A-1 Skyraiders.
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 8:54:57 PM EDT
A few years ago, I was sitting on a cliff overlooking the beach near Santa Cruz, about 50-60 feet off the sand. The sound I heard gave the goose bumps; 4 P-51s at what had to be full throttle, "strafed" beach goers! As I was on the cliff, the planes were at eye level for me. Just like in the scene from "Empire of the Sun", one of the pilots waved to me. Oh, my favorite plane is the FW-190/Ta-152; flies higher/faster/farther than anything the Allies had at the time. Paul
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 2:53:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By aod308: My grandfather flew in a B-52 for most of WWII he said the P-51's got the shit shot outa 'em.
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[b]???[/b] [>:/]
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 4:27:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By aod308: My grandfather flew in a B-52 for most of WWII he said the P-51's got the shit shot outa 'em.
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Sorry.....NO B52`s in WW2.........
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 4:29:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By a2car: I GOT TO FLY IN A P-51!!!![<]:)] This guy had one with two seater used to ref. the air races in Reno NV. I have allways liked P-51s my it was Grandad's job to keeo them in the air and he would talk about the planes for hr.s now I got fly in one and it was the coolest thing Ever. I did really like samll planes but it was so cool I did not think about it tell in was back down. Any one have some thing to add? May be one of you guys got your hands on one in WW2.
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"The epitome of propeller driven aircraft"............[:)]
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 4:32:14 AM EDT
My grandfather flew in a B-52 for most of WWII
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WOW!
he said the P-51's got the shit shot outa 'em
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Another WOW! I like the A1 Skyraider too but it was meant for ground attack. The P-51 was a real good fighter for its time. Without it, the allied wouldn't win the air war over Germany.
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 4:32:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AR18: I kinda of like the slow but deadly A-1 Skyraiders.
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Skyraiders were capable of carrying a heavier bombload than b17`s!........[:)]
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 6:40:22 AM EDT
E-V-E-R ? I don't think so. Best of WWII, but not ever...not even close.
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 6:47:22 AM EDT
I prefer the P-47 thunderbolt but the -51 was instrumental in the bomber escort roll. Planerench out.
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 6:55:42 AM EDT
Bet yall didn't know that the "P" in P-51 stands for Ponyboy did ya? Yep, old grandad Ponyboy designed the whole thing and his 51st design was accepted by the military. Michael
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 7:10:03 AM EDT
Try riding the Tigercat (Grumman F7F-3). Got to ride in that cramped observers position during an airshow 3 years ago. What a BLAST!!! A P-47D & F6F on our wing. 36 cylinders (18 x 2) sounds a lot more busy than just 12... The Tigercat didn't see much service, with jets coming into service...but what a screamer it was! [img]http://www.airzoo.org/images/f7f2_small.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 7:19:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Vectorer: Try riding the Tigercat (Grumman F7F-3). Got to ride in that cramped observers position during an airshow 3 years ago. What a BLAST!!! A P-47D & F6F on our wing. 36 cylinders (18 x 2) sounds a lot more busy than just 12... The Tigercat didn't see much service, with jets coming into service...but what a screamer it was! [img]http://www.airzoo.org/images/f7f2_small.jpg[/img]
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One HELL of a airplane....was in a siuation of bad timing for it to become popular.....it was the basic airframe for one of the jets....voodoo I believe.........
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 7:29:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Vectorer: Try riding the Tigercat
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Now that is a rare thrill indeed!
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 7:35:40 AM EDT
B-52's in WW-2? No wonder we won the war!
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 7:39:19 AM EDT
REALLY easy to get sick in the back seat on a hot summer airshow day...that's all I know.
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 9:20:37 AM EDT
Awww...come on guys, give em a break on the B-52's. He probably means the B-25 Mitchell. I've known P-51 and P-47 drivers and it was amusing to hear the P-47 pilot tell me that the reason he flew P-47's in Europe is he had too many buddies crash in France from a single hit to the radiator in the P-51. Most of his work was low level and he'd bring his brid shot full of holes. Sadly, I've only sat in them. No seat time.
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 9:31:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2001 9:30:10 AM EDT by aod308]
Oop's, sorry I should really know better, I don't know how I mixed 'em up I feel so foolish. Must of been drinking you know [:)]. B17 [edited spelling]
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 11:04:17 AM EDT
"My grandfather flew in a B-17 for most of WWII he said the P-51's got the shit shot outa 'em" Thats why there so damn bad they got shot up and still kicked butt
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 11:11:26 AM EDT
History channel ran a piece on the P51 last nite. I liked the drop away extended range tanks. If they saw German fighters they would drop away these tanks so they would be in fighter trim....
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 11:13:29 AM EDT
Lucky Bastard!
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 1:42:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Meplat: Yep.. Nothing like twelve cylinders, that buzzing idle, and the smell of avgas, and prestone.. [i]They make that neat whistling sound,[/i] I've only heard from Merlin powered aircraft.. Mustang, Spitfire, and the one Hawker Hurricane I had a chance to fondle, they all did it.. Odd, but very cool.. Meplat
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i know just what you are talking about! makes my heart race, and my hair stand on end! heard a recording of a bf109 that made a similar sound.(original german, not the spanish one with the merlin.) a little tinnier, though. sounded a bit like gears at very high speed to me.i believe it's produced by the SUPERCHARGERS! LOVE IT!
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 2:00:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2001 1:58:23 PM EDT by pbrstreetgang]
[img]http://home.munich.netsurf.de/Robert.Sander/fw190d9.jpg[/img] i couldn't resist a pic of my favorite! fw190 dora-9!!
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 2:14:24 PM EDT
P-51....Sounds like a blast! My father is an avid Spitfire fan, a couple years ago he got to fly in a dual (later model) equipped Spit. He spent around $800.00 for the pleasure...but it was a lifelong dream for him and he loved every minute. Sunday he took his first sail plain ride. He's talking about getting in a local sail plane club now! We both fly, I'm not current now. He is! He flies every week. Mostly work related customer flights...but he also still flies and competes in aerobatics. Oh, did I say he turned 70 in June?
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 4:16:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By a2car: "My grandfather flew in a B-17 for most of WWII he said the P-51's got the shit shot outa 'em" Thats why there so damn bad they got shot up and still kicked butt
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I think you mean a P-47.
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 4:33:15 PM EDT
I can't remember which General said it, but the quote went something like: "The P-51 will do everthing the Spitfire can, but the Spit will do it for 15 minutes and the Mustang will do it for [i]eight hours[/i]." And [b]that's[/b] what made it a great fighter.
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 5:23:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By KBaker: I can't remember which General said it, but the quote went something like: "The P-51 will do everthing the Spitfire can, but the Spit will do it for 15 minutes and the Mustang will do it for [i]eight hours[/i]." And [b]that's[/b] what made it a great fighter.
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They had the same engine, P-51 had a better wing and held more gas.
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 5:35:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2001 5:32:47 PM EDT by 700PSS]
The Spit (through the Mk.IX) would eat the P-51 alive in a low speed scrap with it's lighter wing loading. The P-51 was the better fighter for a high speed, energy management type of dogfight with it's laminar flow wing and faster dive. Although any Griffon engined Spit (Mk.XII and up) could give the P-51 a run for it's money in this kind of fight too. The thing that made the P-51 stand out among the crowd of great fighters was it's effective range.
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 9:42:39 PM EDT
Just had to put in my vote for the Best WWII Fighter: P38 Lightning. faster, turned quicker, and had an extra engine to bring you home.
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 9:49:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By M15A2:
Originally Posted By RipMeyer:
Originally Posted By a2car: P-51 : best damn fighter ever!
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Thats a pretty bold statement. I would vote for the F-15E. However the 51 sure is nice.
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I would have to go with Rocky Marciano! [:D]
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Every time we talk bout boxin, white man gotsta pull Rocky Marciano out his ass.
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 11:19:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By pbrstreetgang: [img]http://home.munich.netsurf.de/Robert.Sander/fw190d9.jpg[/img] i couldn't resist a pic of my favorite! fw190 dora-9!!
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They didn't call it the "Butcher Bird" for nothing!!
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 1:07:41 AM EDT
Personal favorites, P38 lightning, and F6F Hellcat, P38, Long range, great firepower, Twin engines, a bit cold, but it served through the entire war. The P51, really served only in the latter half, by the time they were converted to escort, much of the Luffwaffe, had been pretty badly mauled. F6F, the Wildcat held the line, the Hellcat marched back. In two word TURKEY SHOOT TMA
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 1:17:19 AM EDT
"The P51, really served only in the latter half" By us but the Brits had them for years with the old motor. They used them to win the battel of Britan.
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 1:27:23 AM EDT
The old engine was a alison, not really up to the task, very tempermental.P51A's were very manuverlbe at lower levels, but up high they died, Good match for the FW190, TMA
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 12:06:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Maxim08: The old engine was a alison, not really up to the task, very tempermental.
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Allison engines were one of the most reliable liquid cooled powerplants ever designed. Only the lack of a supercharger hampered the Mustang (and Airacobra) at high altitude.
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 1:58:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 700PSS:
Originally Posted By Maxim08: The old engine was a alison, not really up to the task, very tempermental.
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Allison engines were one of the most reliable liquid cooled powerplants ever designed. Only the lack of a supercharger hampered the Mustang (and Airacobra) at high altitude.
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Actually, the p39 was a fairly succesful fighter, mostly in the hands of russians. Guess they were`nt quite as scared of the driveshaft between the leg thing.....allison`s WERE used in many succesful applications....just that the rrm`s were rated at higher "war emergency" horsepower, and since the supermarine outfit had a lot of say in the p51 development, add the proven performance of the spitfires, also the time limitations as they were, the rrmerlins got the nod....[:)]
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 11:44:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2001 3:18:43 AM EDT by 700PSS]
Originally Posted By black-guns: Actually, the p39 was a fairly succesful fighter, mostly in the hands of russians. Guess they were`nt quite as scared of the driveshaft between the leg thing.....allison`s WERE used in many succesful applications....just that the rrm`s were rated at higher "war emergency" horsepower, and since the supermarine outfit had a lot of say in the p51 development, add the proven performance of the spitfires, also the time limitations as they were, the rrmerlins got the nod....[:)]
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I never said the P-39 wasn't successful, I just said it was no good above 15,000ft, like the Allison engined Mustangs. The Russians loved the P-39 because they used their air force mainly for ground attack, and the 37mm cannon in the prop hub worked well on German armor. The later Mustangs became successful fighters because the Merlin engines had multi-stage superchargers, able to adjust for for more efficient running at high altitude. The Brits had plenty of Merlins available, so to try to improve performance of the Mustang, they shoved one in it. It was more a happy accident than a well thought out plan. Since the Brits had already done the engineering for the conversion, Packard was licensed to build Merlins in the US, and the rest is history. If the supply of supercharged Allisons wasn't going into P-38s, and if the Mustang was originally intended to be a high altitude escort fighter, then they probably would have had supercharged Allisons in the first place, making them into the excellent fighter they became from the get-go. None of this is intended as a slam on the Merlin (in fact it's my 2nd favorite power plant to hear in the air, the P & W R-2800 series being my favorite), I felt the need to defend the Allison. The Allison engines that are still flying today are about the most reliable warbird powerplants out there.
Link Posted: 8/22/2001 3:47:18 AM EDT
And I didn`t think I meant that you said it.........carefully read my post which, I thought, was a confirmation of allison succeses in wartime.......anyway.....tell ME why the brits decided on p38 (allisons) WITHOUT turbo`s?????????????? does`nt make sense.....war does`nt make sense....PERIOD
Link Posted: 8/22/2001 4:50:49 AM EDT
The Brits ordered about 150 P-38s in 1940, with 20mm Hispano cannons replacing the 37mm Oldsmobile cannons of the early P-38s. Unfortunately for the Brits, the State Department prohibited export of the F2 turbocharged Allison and their P-38s were equipped with C15 Allisons sans turbo. These were promptly rejected by the Brits so Lockheed brought them up to US standard and they entered service with the US Army Air Corps.
Link Posted: 8/22/2001 4:59:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By a2car: "The P51, really served only in the latter half" By us but the Brits had them for years with the old motor. They used them to win the battel of Britan.
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The first Mustang arrived in England in November, 1941. The Battle of Britain was over well before then. The RAF Mustangs were assigned to the RAF Army Co-operation Command, and used for ground attack almost exclusively.
Link Posted: 8/22/2001 5:02:09 AM EDT
I have to vote for the Hawker Sea Fury, a close relative to the Hawker Tempest which was probably the best ground attack aircraft of the war. Imagine a plane with light wing loading, size of a P-51, 4 20mm cannon, and approx 2x the HP of a P51! 500MPH in level flight. Came to late in the war to see service but set several records and lasted as the Royal Navy's front line fighter into the 50's. The first couple Mig 15 of the Korean War was shot down by one. The mainstay along with P51s for reno racing. Pretty rare today as well I like it so much I bought the plans to make a balsa/fiberglass R/C model with a 90" wingspan, 10ci engine, retracts, flaps, bomb drop etc. I have gotten a couple magazines and websites that have lots of pics and action shots. BrenLover
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