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Posted: 8/19/2001 5:23:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/19/2001 5:23:22 AM EDT by DavidC]
It's not an AR, but... I had been looking for a 308 semi-auto to use as a plinnker with the large amount of surplus 308 I've accumulated (and is still being sold, for the most part). I have an AR-10T and a built M1A, neither of which I was willing to subject to cheap ammo, so I hit a gunshow two weeks ago to look for one of the inexpensive semiauto 308's I've seen advertised lately (CETME, L1A1, or G3). I ended up with a CETME for $479 ($503 out the door, taxes, NICs, etc.) The rifle looked good (its wood furiture looks very nice) and it came with 3 magazines (2 -20 round, 1 -5 round) and a German plastic 2 mag pouch. I am very happy with the rifle so far. I've put about 200 rounds through it. It shoots pretty much to point of aim, I've had no FTF or FTE problmes, and its recoil is very soft for a 308 auto (this is my first experience with the roller action). Even though the guns are CAI assembled, they've actually done a good job with these (far better than the POS L1A1 I got from them 2 years ago). The receivers are stainless steel, finished black to match the rest of the guns, and upon close inspection, the parts seemed NIB when I disassembled the rifle before shooting. I'm so satisfied with the rifle I'm planning on picking up another one at a very large PA gunshow being held next weekend. I've also taken advantage of a deal at TAPCO for 20 magazines (new) for $4.99 each. Given that they work in the HK91 and G3 as well as the CETME, I doubt they will lose any value (see[url]http://www.tapco.com/store/prodinfo.asp?number=MAG8601&variation=&aitem=7&mitem=16&back=yes[/url]) Cruffler's review of the CETME can be found at [url]http://www.cruffler.com/review-july-00.html[/url] This CETME deal will likely be one of those that you look back on in a few years and kick yourself for not jumping on. [FYI - I have no connection with anyone selling these items - edited to fix the URLs]
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 6:48:31 AM EDT
Thanks for the links DavidC. I went to the gun show here in Austin yesterday. I am looking for CETME or a Portuguese G-3. Nobody had either. My kid got a couple of Pokemon cards though. Does anyone have any hands on experience with the Portuguese G-3? Semper Fi
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 7:00:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 7:02:51 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 7:32:29 AM EDT
DavidC - Awww crap. Now you've got me thinking about getting a CETME. Damnit. Why is it that everytime I talk to you, I have to add another gun to my "must buy" list? Its starting to get to be a pretty long list; if you don't let up, I'm going to have to stop talking to you. [:)] I should probably ask this at HKpro, since the subguns.com boards are down, but do you know if the trigger pack and bolt is the same as a G3? I'm thinking with my registered HK sear, these may work out to be a better platform for a cheap full-auto blaster than a Greek or Portugese HK clone, and definitely better than a real HK for just cheap blasting fun.
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 9:00:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Duffy: DavidC, will HK91 furniture fit the CETME?
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Yeah, What he said. I Don't really like the wood stock. A wood stock on a M14 is nice but not this one. I guess i am used to the HK black look.
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 9:20:03 AM EDT
SOG Has them on M_A_J_O_R blowout right now for $399 FFL with 2 mags.. Mags are pretty cheap too.. So, $399 + $15 ship + FFL Transfer costs gets you a big-time butt kickin rifle. I believe they are CAI receivers. Interesting note. When MARS imported CETME sporters in the 60's, they were insanely expensive. They only reason they are so cheap now is because the amount of kits imported exceeded the demand at the time. These guns will surely rise in price as time continues. Fun Fact about the CETME- It generates more velocity than the G3 since it unlocks at a substantially higher pressure, thus generating more gas/energy transfer to the projectile before the bolt allows it to escape through the receiver.
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 9:29:13 AM EDT
Here for those who want to know if they can fit G3 or HK91 stocks on a cetme: [url]http://mwdg3.homestead.com/CETME.html[/url]
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 9:39:05 AM EDT
Duffy - I don't believe that you can just swap furniture for the HK/G3 stuff. There are sufficient differences to keep it from working. I have read messages from people that have modded the HK style wide fore end to work, but it is not a reversible mod. Shaggy - We'll hook you up next Saturday [;)] I'm pretty sure that your FA parts won't work in the CETME. Why not just get one of the $500 G3 parts guns? PVFD304 - I normally don't like wood on these style rifles, but the CETME really looks good, especially when compared to the plastic furniture on an L1A1 or G3 clone. Landon - Since I know the dealers are paying $399 for the gun, I'm willing to give them a reasonable profit. Since it would cost ~ $40-$50 for shippng and transfer I figure that the dealer is making ~10-15% on the gun. If we can't afford that small margin to keep an FFL in business, there won't be many FFL's left in a few years. That's not a dig, just my opinion.
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 9:42:04 AM EDT
David) I totally agree. Though there are exceptions. An example is my FFL, who if he dosn't stock a particular firearm, only asks me to pay the transfer fee to get it. So, that's all the gun cost me.
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 9:55:32 AM EDT
Cetme is the worst rifle I have ever bought and I was glad to get rid of it. Jamomatic thats all. GG
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 10:01:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Gun Guru: Cetme is the worst rifle I have ever bought and I was glad to get rid of it. Jamomatic thats all. GG
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I haven't has much luck with this type/style rifle either. I wish I could afford the real deal though.
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 10:03:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 10:10:00 AM EDT
They are definitely a crap shoot as is any American parts gun. But you will find that most any "jamming" can be corrected with basic skill, and a working knowledge of the gun. Sure, the occasionial probelms pop up that are either too expensive, or too labor intensive to make the gun worth it... But all guns have the occasionial lemon that is beyond practical repair. I tend to view US Parts guns as canvases for the gun tinkerer to work his art upon. They all tend to begin life needing some tweaking, and if you know what to do, it can yeild you a damn fine gun for a realitivley small pricetag.
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 10:10:27 AM EDT
Drats! I just bought a CETME for 599.00! That's not to bad though, if she works ok. I might be able to go out and shoot her the first time tomorrow. ever since Elian Gonzales was kidnapped, I had been thinking about a tough little .308 blaster. I hope this Spaniard fits the bill. Anybody else out there had any experience with Century CETMEs? I believe that they are now made with stainless steal receivers. I called up a guy at Arizona Response Systems and asked him about Springfield's SAR-8. He said to steer clear of them because of their aluminum receivers. God bless.
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 10:20:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/19/2001 10:17:01 AM EDT by DavidC]
Paul - Your comment reflects my past experience with Century and their L1A1 frankenguns. This CETME has been a completely different experience. Anyway... Here's the product description from the Century web site: CETME Semi-Auto Rifle, Cal. .308 NATO These rifles are assembled using new, original parts and selected U.S. parts so they conform to all U.S. Federal requirements. They feature a compensator for recoil reduction and fast target acquisition during semi-auto fire. The buttstock and handguard are of select hardwood. All CETME rifles, like the G3, are a roller lock, delay blow back, design with fluted chambers for reliable functioning even in the worst conditions. Every CETME rifle is headspaced and test fired before it is shipped. These are built using a precision cast, 17-4 stainless steel receiver. This receiver is produced using the latest vacuum cast technology by one of the leading aerospace casting firms in the U.S.A. Each casting is hot straightened to ensure flawless functioning and heat treated to 42-47 RC for superior strength and wear resistance. The rifle is finished with a baked on gray/black paint just like the H&K process. We have included attachments for mounting the German claw mounts. Comes with 2 - 20 rd. mags. and pouch. Barrel: 19.5", Overall: 40 3/4". Weight: 9.7 lbs. RI1007X Condition: New *Not available in CA. And here are a few more good links and actual user reviews of the guns: [url]http://www.geocities.com/yak23flora/html/cetme.html[/url] Another Cruffler review with good pictures that document disassembly: [url]http://www.cruffler.com/trivia-November00.html[/url] And a complete manual for the G3, most of which also applies to the CETME (same construction, slightly different parts): [url]http://user.icx.net/~jonesgil/G3MANUAL.HTM[/url]
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 10:31:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2001 5:17:09 AM EDT by Major-Murphy]
[url]http://www.gunsnammo.com/index_files/riflesmain2.htm[/url] $439.00
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 12:23:49 PM EDT
I find that the more I shoot my Cetme the more I like it, only wish that it was easier to clean.
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 2:29:08 PM EDT
$439 for a rifle that is essentially an HK91, sounds like a deal to me. Rather than pay a couple of grand for the HK I'll buy the original and get a CETME. I just hope the buzz about the Century is true and the CETME isn't like their other rifles.
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 3:53:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 4:17:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Landon: SOG Has them on M_A_J_O_R blowout right now for $399 FFL with 2 mags...
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Landon: Any reference to where you saw this deal? SGN? A website? Where? Where?! My last issue of SGN was July 9 and they're in there from SOG at $485 w/ 2 mags.
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 4:30:19 PM EDT
vent - Page 62 of the current Gun List has a SOG ad that lists the CTEME at $395 with 2 mags, part # SLG-CETME 1-800-944-GUNS
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 5:01:54 PM EDT
I wish I could buy a cetme, but Canada banned it... it and the G11 even though it never went into production... weird...
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 6:05:21 PM EDT
Here's my 1960's Modelo C Mars import. Note the "Sporting" style optics mounts specifically placed on these guns. I'd rate the build quality of this gun as on par, if not above that of an HK product. [IMG]http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=192182&a=1409106&p=48016863&Sequence=0&res=high[/IMG]
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 6:10:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DavidC: vent - Page 62 of the current Gun List has a SOG ad that lists the CTEME at $395 with 2 mags, part # SLG-CETME 1-800-944-GUNS
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Is SOG cetme a CIA or Hess made rifle?
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 6:15:50 PM EDT
As far as I understand it, they are all CIA guns. The difference is whether or not the gun in particular uses a Special Weapons or a Hesse receiver. I don't know for sure, but supposedly the Hesse receivered guns have a standard HK style drum rear sight whereas the SW receivers have the typical CETME flipover rear sights. Can anyone verify?
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 6:16:11 PM EDT
Ahhhhh! Just avoid confusion about what guns are crap and which are not, and just get a true HK91. Problem solved!
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 2:12:01 PM EDT
CIA has them for $409 with free shipping + spare 20rd mag and 5rd mag. New mags are 7.95
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 8:02:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2001 7:58:16 PM EDT by DavidC]
stubbs - Does this mean your fronting us all the difference in price between a $500 CETME and an $1800 HK91? Must have been a big lottery jackpot! [;)]
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 8:26:20 PM EDT
I've had my Century G3 since around Feb. of this year. The only problem was that they screwed up the trigger pack housing when they modified it. It caused the ejector to ride too low as the bolt passed over it causing a double feed of the spent round and a fresh round. I fixed this easily by Mig welding a bead on top of the ejector, finish machining it and re-installing it. I've never had a bit of trouble with this rifle since. Good bang for the buck, and is extremely accurate. From what I've heard about the stainless receivers, Century bought the rights to SW's tooling or something like that. Anyway, they are essentially SW receivers. The CETME receiver is identical to the G3 except for the rear sight assembly. My G3 came in with the CETME to the gun shop both ordered from Century.
Link Posted: 8/23/2001 12:09:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/23/2001 12:09:56 PM EDT by DavidC]
My 20-pack of new CETME /G3/ HK91 20-round magazines arrived today from Tapco. They look good, but the packaging left a little to be desired; they stacked all the mags in a box, with no packing material between each magazine, then filled the box with styrofoam peanuts. Anybody have a good suggestions for removing crushed styrofoam and the Spanish equivalent of cosmoline from 20 magazines? [:)] For $4.99 per mag (quantity 20+) they still are a great deal. Now if I can find some more good deals at the gun show this weekend...
Link Posted: 8/30/2001 6:40:55 PM EDT
I just received my CETME from Wholesale Guns-n-Ammo today. Before today I have only seen this rifle in pictures. Picking it up for the first time, I thought that my L1A1 had a better balance. I do like the wood stocks on the CETME better than the plastic ones of my L1A1. I hope I wasn't wrong in buying this rifle. I was going to get a STG-58, and then read about these on this board, so I figured to give it a shot. Now I am off to [url]www.tapco.com[/url] to buy more stuff I don't really need to complete this rifle package. When I was checking out their $4.99 mag (in lots of 20) deal, I seen they had the original slings in new condition for $9.99. While I am there, I might as well buy enough stuff to get one of those free coffee cups. If my G1 and L1A1 kits ever come off back order, I will have a set of 2 free cups. How do I know if i have a Special Weapons or Hesse receiver? My rear sight rotates around like a wheel. OSA
Link Posted: 8/30/2001 6:46:04 PM EDT
Hey, DavidC, is that a Calico M-951 in your name pic? I'm gald that there's other Calico fans on the board. [rail]
Link Posted: 8/30/2001 8:30:48 PM EDT
My under standing is to stay away from the hesse receives. just what i've heard from many sources. mmk
Link Posted: 8/30/2001 11:52:19 PM EDT
Hey guys, Looking for a high capacity plinker, can't afford an AR yet.. This a good choice? I was also thinking about using it for whitetail deer hunting >100 Yards.. Are scopes moutable on these? Thanks! -Jared
Link Posted: 8/31/2001 5:00:03 AM EDT
OSA - if it has the drum sight (G3/HK style) it's a Hesse receiver. While I would stay far away from Hesse receivered guns in most cases some of the posters on HK forums report that they work fine in the CETME. It's a stamped steel receiver, finished black. The SW/CIA receivers are stainless steel, finished black, with the original CETME paddle sight. The actual HK91 receiver is also stamped steel, finished black. Both receivers looks significantly better than those aluminium monstrosities turining up on some of the G3 clones (the big, oversized ones that even Sppringfield armory is using on their "new" SAR). Armed Scientist - Sorry, that was a badly squished picture of an AR10 [;)] Grizzly660 - They take the HK-style claw mount for scopes, which are pretty expensive. I wouldn't buy one instead of an AR (after all this IS AR15.COM), but if you're just looking for a plinker 308 semi-auto, it would be tough to find a better deal.
Link Posted: 9/2/2001 2:46:39 PM EDT
Here is a picture of my new CETME, between my L1A1 and AR10. I just got done cleaning all the metal shavings, sand and dried oil out of it. I cleaned each part and lightly lubed them before reassembling. I used Tetra Grease on the trigger group, working it in as I dry fired it. The trigger is still heavy, but smoother. [img]oldspfldarmory.homestead.com/files/762a.jpg[/img] left to right: L1A1 on IMBEL receiver, CETME, ArmaLite AR10 A2 I was looking them all over and still think I like the FAL a little better. OSA
Link Posted: 9/2/2001 2:56:26 PM EDT
Acetone will disolve those foam peanuts and benzene will get rid of the cosmoline if you can get your hands on any (but try not to get too much benzene on yourself....it's bad stuff).
Link Posted: 9/22/2001 7:36:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/22/2001 7:36:55 PM EDT by recon]
www.gunsnammo.com now has there SW receiver Cetme's for $398.99 with free shipping!
Link Posted: 9/23/2001 4:13:21 PM EDT
Okay, you guys got me. I went and bought one of the paddle sight style today. Looks really nice for what it costs. Of course I had to take it apart right. Did you guys get owners manuals with yours? I didn't so I have a couple of questions: How and what do you lube it with? I cleaned all the nasty packing grease out, wiped the innards down with CLP, and put a light grease (Super Lube) on the bolt assembly where it rides the receiver. I also noticed that regardless of wether or not I have a dummy round in the chamber, if the bolt assembly doesn't slam hard enough forward there is space open on the underside of the bolt assembly where I think a person sticks the feeler gauge to check for the headpace. I hope I described that right. Is there any chance the thing can go off when it is not fully in battery or won't the firing pin reach (sort of like an AR). Do they break in over time? All that fresh parkerizing inside is slowing things down I imagine. I just don't want to be paranoid every time I pull the trigger. Final questions: How do you adjust for windage? Were your's pretty close for windage already? I take mine to the range tomorrow, wish me luck!
Link Posted: 9/23/2001 4:22:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DavidC: My 20-pack of new CETME /G3/ HK91 20-round magazines arrived today from Tapco. They look good, but the packaging left a little to be desired; they stacked all the mags in a box, with no packing material between each magazine, then filled the box with styrofoam peanuts. Anybody have a good suggestions for removing crushed styrofoam and the Spanish equivalent of cosmoline from 20 magazines? [:)] For $4.99 per mag (quantity 20+) they still are a great deal. Now if I can find some more good deals at the gun show this weekend...
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When my magazines came, they were wrapped up with newspaper in pairs. OSA
Link Posted: 9/23/2001 7:53:55 PM EDT
Most people say the gun needs a good breaking in period. You can probably shorten that break in if you manually cycle the gun a couple hundred times. Something to do during the commercials :)
Link Posted: 9/23/2001 8:09:21 PM EDT
Leafy - Some of the folks on the HK boards have been refering to the "mandatory 400 action cycles" before the guns smooths out. Mine was a few less than that, but not many [;)] When I first got mine it almost took two hands to cycle the action. After a hundred or so manual cycles, I got to the point where I could cycle it easily with my left hand only. After about 50 rounds theough it, it smoothed out significantly. Now I'm hoping to get a G3 this weekend, just to round out my 308 (7.62x51) MBR collection (AR-10, M14 (M1A), FAL, CETME, so far). Am I missing any?
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