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Posted: 8/19/2001 12:17:42 AM EDT
I just found out that the Cop Shop I'm about to be working for issues us Glock 9's. Somebody tell me some reasons that the 9 isn't inferior to the .40 so I won't be so sad. Lie if you have to.
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 12:19:47 AM EDT
9 is a proven killing round. .40 on the other hand is preferred by L.E. because of the opposite. and btw one word HICAPS.
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 12:23:02 AM EDT
Advice already taken/considered long time ago. So what makes the 9mm a "proven killing round?" Not trying to rebuke, I'm really curious.
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 12:57:40 AM EDT
Are you limited to the type(s) of ammunition you are permitted to use? Or is the ammo issued by the dept.? There is a huge amount of choices out there in 9mm. The 9mm is not a .45, but I still wouldn't want to get hit by one. I know very little about 9mm, but there are many here who can help.
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 1:01:58 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 1:03:50 AM EDT
I don't know if we are limited to types of ammo, but I believe that the dept. issues ammo. I'm not an expert on 9mm either, but everybody I know that has carried both swears by the .40. You're right about not wanting to get hit by one, but I don't want to get hit by a .22 either. I've just always preferred the .40 (as well as several other rounds) to the 9 as far as performance and feel. The ballistic tests on it aren't the most impressive either.
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 6:31:16 AM EDT
Did you check with the guys at the Glock Talk website yet? My Dept. issues Glock 19's(or a S&W 5946) with Speer 124gr+P Gold Dot Hollow Points. I'm far from an expert on the 9mm as well but if the 9mm round is soooo bad then why do the SEALS use it still?
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 6:45:16 AM EDT
Just tell'em you'd like a Glock-18. 9mm-higher capacity mags. Should be able to fire aimed rounds quiker than other calibers do to lower recoil. Less likely to KB than with .40 cal. .40 cal. is 10mm's weak sister anyway.
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 7:03:39 AM EDT
I'm far from an expert on the 9mm as well but if the 9mm round is soooo bad then why do the SEALS use it still?
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9mm is the world wide standard (sorry to say) As a "local round" the 40 is a better pick.
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 9:04:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 3:13:11 PM EDT
Well as PVFD304 said, the nine is available everywhere. As for the Seal comment, on the Discovery Channel they explained the reason for the 9mm is that it "doesn't overpenetrate walls" when they have to do close quarter combat (clearing rooms). But this has been debated to death here on AR15 whether it is true or not. Personally I prefer the 9 over the .45. I tend to have faster follow up shots. Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement. If you can consistantly put a round at center of mass you win. Or if you are good and consistantly do a head shot, it doesn't matter what you have .22 to .50 you win. Plus it is a cheaper round. This is especially important to a police force. Budget is truely the deciding factor for the majority of all purchases, contracts. Remember the lowest bid wins!
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 3:26:09 PM EDT
While shot placement IS the most important factor, there is nothing wrong with a 9mm that a .45 won't fix
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 3:27:20 PM EDT
Guzzler, Faster follow up shots? I don't think so. About three months ago myself and 7 other officers were at the range. We tried to see how many rounds we could we could put into the target in two seconds. We used a PAC timer. Most of the guys shoot 9's and 40's, while I shoot a .45. They were getting about 4 to 6 shots in two seconds. The first time I got 7 rounds in 1.95 seconds and the second time I fired 8 rounds in 2.03 seconds. If you can got faster follow up from a 9, let me know. SK
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 3:43:17 PM EDT
9mms are fine with the right ammo and good marksmanship. PROs:17 rd mags add up fast, as bet you know you can have a butt load of ammo. The light recoil makes for a more stable platform under tough conditions. CONs: 9mms may not really bother a guy on crank and you will need to put the hole mag in him, very bad press. Guys with 45s will pick on you.
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 6:34:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/19/2001 6:36:04 PM EDT by Sparky315]
If you get to pick your own ammo (which is unlikely), go with the Cor-bon 115-grain +P, the Federal 9BPLE 115-grain +P+, or the Federal 9BP 115-grain HP. If you're stuck with a department-issued 147-grain load, you're fucked. Carry their load 'til you're off probation, then buy one of the above loads and carry it instead. A letter in your file for non-approved ammo is better than getting dead. Those loads I listed will perform as well against people as most .45 loads. The 147-grain loads flat suck. Find out if your department has an alternate weapons policy. My department issues Glock 9's and 45's, but I can carry a personally-owned .40 if I wish. Lots of departments are adopting this approach. Good luck! BTW, the stuff about SEAL's using 9mm because it won't go through walls in CQB scenarios is a bunch of shite. I don't doubt that's what the TV said, but once again, they got it wrong. 9mm ball and almost all factory hollowpoints will sizzle through multiple walls of common residential or business construction. They use it because it is the NATO standard and they can get it anywhere in the world.
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 10:43:14 AM EDT
If its a Glock you are considering, I would stick with the 9mm. Extremely reliable, stay away from lead ball and Blazer ammo and you'll never have a problem. I've seen and read a lot of data concerning the other calibers, .40, 10mm and .45. These seem to be more prone to Kbooms due to the unsupported case. There are after market Glock barrels that you can buy tha fully support the case ends but I think this may reduce reliability, which was the reason why Glock removed that section of the breach to begin with. The best data that I've seen concerning 9mm's have been 124 grain hydroshocks. As for .40's, the best data I've seen are the 135 grain Corbons. These duplicate the ballistics of the .357 magnum. A lot of people like .40 s&w 155 grain HP's too.
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 10:57:45 AM EDT
Phrigid, If you point that Glock loaded up with 147grs at me, you'll find me face down on the tarmac blubbering for a nice safe jail cell with Rahim or Jermaine. I realize that the 9mm is not a popular choice in the LE community, and I assume that there is a real reason for the disdain. Still, stretch cavities, Facklerites and everything aside, LE 9mm loads seem to have comparable KE to the other calibers, unless you throw .45 Super or 10mm into the mix. It's the 1/2mv^2 thing. Just grab the shotgun or carbine when you jump out of the squad car. A pistol is a pistol, unless you carry a Contender or XP100 as a duty gun. Nomex suit on :)
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 11:08:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2001 11:05:55 AM EDT by vicg1]
this is the glock 9mm you need... 21 rounds down range in 3 bursts... right click and save to your pc... short mpeg. [url]http://vicg1.50megs.com/glock%20auto.mpg[/url]
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 12:10:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2001 12:27:46 PM EDT by cnatra]
CorBon! [url]www.corbon.com[/url] You'll have access to LE ammo but Corbon & I think Triton Hi-Vel makes some excellent 9mm loads. A 115gr JHP at 1350fps is a benchmark self defense load for 9mm & a 124gr bullet a 1200fps+ is another good load. Most loads that fast will be considered +p loads but that will be No problem for your G17/G19. P.S. also check out [url]www.ammoman.com[/url] he has good selection of +P+ 9mm ammo & the New Federal Expanding Full Metal Jacket(EFMJ). That ammo looks promising. also [url]www.triton-ammo.com[/url]
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 2:37:13 PM EDT
In response to several postings here: 1) SEALS like the 9mm b/c they have a habit of failure drilling everything that they shoot (2 to the chest, one to the head). Lightweight ammo means more to waste. Myself, I've always trained double tap between the eyes. Less ammo spent, better kill chance. In this situation, any ammo is good as long as you can hit what you're aiming at. 2) Yes the .40 is the little sister to the 10. The 10 has way too much penetration for many situations (not to say that it isn't a good round). That's why the FBI went back to the .45. Would you believe that a sergeant at the dept. told me that the.40 is a "trash round" because it has "too much compression?" Whatever the hell that means. I'm not really against the 9 per se, there are just other rounds that I would prefer to carry for a reactive duty gun. Thus endeth the rant.
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 3:49:48 PM EDT
Guys with 45s will pick on you.
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HAHA Don't enter a pissing contest with a 9...You'll lose every time.
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 4:39:39 PM EDT
The .40 S&W stands for short and weak. The 9mm on the other hand has been known to destroy small villages when the primary target is missed. You are every bit as well armed with a 9mm then you are with a the main gun from an A-10. The 9mm has a 100% first round kill at well over 300 miles and has no recoil. The latest generation of 9mm is fire and forget meaning that it reads your mind and engages the target (or village) that you intend to destroy. Plus its more economical. [puke]
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 5:08:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MR09: Guzzler, Faster follow up shots? I don't think so. About three months ago myself and 7 other officers were at the range. We tried to see how many rounds we could we could put into the target in two seconds. We used a PAC timer. Most of the guys shoot 9's and 40's, while I shoot a .45. They were getting about 4 to 6 shots in two seconds. The first time I got 7 rounds in 1.95 seconds and the second time I fired 8 rounds in 2.03 seconds. If you can got faster follow up from a 9, let me know. SK
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I have never timed myself. You may be right on your follow up shots. I was just saying Personally, I [i]feel[/i] I can do follow up shots faster. But many people have said that I am weird [;)]
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