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Posted: 4/12/2006 6:45:27 AM EDT
My dealer has a Marlin 45-70 lever in stock.
Good for hunting yes. Is this round over the top for BG protection?
Ammo is pricey too.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 6:47:54 AM EDT
load it with federal hydra shocks.

(assuming that is possible, im not a realoder)
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 6:52:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MTUSA:
My dealer has a Marlin 45-70 lever in stock.
Good for hunting yes. Is this round over the top for BG protection?
Ammo is pricey too.



Hunting- Big Stuff
BG Protection- OTT!
Ammo $- Only factory ammo is expensive. It's cheaper if you handload.


Originally Posted By blackbag223:
load it with federal hydra shocks.

(assuming that is possible, im not a realoder)



Not possible. .45 pistol bullets have a diameter of .451-.452. .45 rifle bullets have a diameter of .458.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 6:55:12 AM EDT
Not a weapon I'd use for in-home protection. WAAAAY to much penetration and muzzle blast.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 6:56:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/12/2006 7:01:40 AM EDT by BOBK48]
45-70 been around a long time. In a Marlin they can be loadedup pretty hot should be able to take anything in North America with the right loads. If you want to use it as a home defense weapon it's really a heavy duty round maybe too heavy!
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 7:10:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/12/2006 7:11:42 AM EDT by MTUSA]

Originally Posted By Forest:
Not a weapon I'd use for in-home protection. WAAAAY to much penetration and muzzle blast.




I'm thinking more of an outdoor SHTF supplemental rifle to the AR and shotty.
Also I weigh in @ 160lbs. Is recoil stought?
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 7:12:57 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 7:13:40 AM EDT
For home protection you could decrease the powder and load up shot or a light bullet, but it's not the intended purpose. It's a good big game hunting round.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 7:13:53 AM EDT
The .45-70 Government

By Chuck Hawks



The traditional .45-70 factory load is a 405 grain bullet (BC .214, SD .272) at a MV of 1330 fps, and a ME of 1590 ft. lbs. This is a very moderate load that kills well because of the penetration of its big, heavy bullet. It has been used on all North American game, but today should be restricted to use at close range.

In an attempt to improve the low pressure .45-70 load, the factories have been loading a 300 grain JHP bullet (BC .171, SD .204) at around 1,810 fps. At that velocity, according to Remington figures, the ME is 2182 ft. lbs.

The trajectory of this load allows a scoped rifle to be sighted as follows: +3" at 82 yards, +2.7" at 100 yards, -3" at 162 yards, and -10.2" at 200 yards. This makes the 45-70 about a 162 yard rifle for use on deer size game.

Pertinent information about the .45-70 includes that it accepts standard .458" diameter bullets, has a COL of 2.55", a maximum case length of 2.105", and a SAAMI MAP of 28,000 cup.

Reloaders with modern single shot rifles can safely exceed the official COL as long as the bullet is not jammed into the rifling when the cartridge is chambered. The bullets in reloads to be used in magazine fed rifles are usually roll crimped in place, but loads intended for single shot rifles need not be crimped.

Handloaders with modern Marlin lever action rifles have pioneered the use of high pressure (+P) .45-70 loads, as the modern Marlin 1895 action is much stronger than the Trapdoor Springfield action or reproductions there of. Lever action rifles are limited to bullets weighing about 400 grains, as heavier (and thus longer) bullets will not feed through their actions.

The owners of modern single shot rifles, such as the Ruger No. 1 and Browning 1885 High Wall, can safely take the pressure limit even higher, and can use 500 grain bullets. The result is loads that tread on the heels of some African safari cartridges.

The handloader will normally load bullets of 300, 350, 400 and 500 grains, although other bullet weights in the same general ballpark are available. I have had some experience reloading the .45-70 with all of the above bullets, and I have found that IMR 3031, a traditional powder choice for the cartridge, gives excellent performance with all bullet weights.

According to the sixth edition of the Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading, 40.9 grains of IMR 3031 powder can drive a Hornady 300 grain JHP bullet to a MV of 1300 fps, and 52.0 grains of IMR 3031 can drive the same bullet to a MV of 1800 fps. This essentially duplicates the factory loads, and does not exceed the SAAMI specified MAP. These and the Hornady loads to follow used Winchester brass and Federal 210 primers.

The second level of loads are for modern Marlin 1895 lever action rifles. In these loads pressures can run up to 40,000 cup. These reloads can drive a Hornady 350 grain bullet to a MV of 1400 fps with 45.2 grains of IMR 3031 powder, and a MV of 1900 fps in front of 56.1 grains of IMR 3031. These velocities were taken in the 22" barrel of a Marlin 1895 rifle. According to the Hornady Handbook, Sixth Edition, these loads are adequate for ". . . any North American game at moderate range."

The final selection of .45-70 reloads are for strong bolt action or single shot rifles that can take pressures running up to 50,000 cup. In such rifles 55.4 grains of IMR 3031 can give the Hornady 350 grain bullets a MV of 2000 fps, and 59.6 grains a MV of 2200 fps. These loads were chronographed in the 22" barrel of a Ruger No.1 rifle.

For the utmost in penetration on very large animals, the 500 grain Hornady RN or FMJ-RN bullets on top of 44.1 grains of IMR 3031 results in a MV of 1500 fps, and a maximum load of 53.1 grains of IMR 3031 can drive these 500 grain bullets to a MV of 1800 fps. Again, these high pressure loads were tested from the 22" barrel of a Ruger No. 1 rifle.

I can tell you from experience that these heavy loads kick like the devil, but they make the .45-70 a serious "stopping" caliber.

Link Posted: 4/12/2006 7:20:44 AM EDT
Which one?

40-70 and 45-70 are both old Sharps calibers and "both" listed in your post above.

Mike

ps - 45-70 has been well covered
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 7:21:02 AM EDT
Perhaps the Marlin 1894 (44mag) or the Marlin 1894C (357 mag)
will be the SHTF sibling to the AR and shotty.
Nasty ballistics from the 40-70. Good round indeed but not for BG's.
Thanks for the great intel.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 7:27:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MTUSA:
Perhaps the Marlin 1894 (44mag) or the Marlin 1894C (357 mag)
will be the SHTF sibling to the AR and shotty.
Nasty ballistics from the 40-70. Good round indeed but not for BG's.
Thanks for the great intel.



I have a Sharps Sporting rifle in 45-70, great rifle that I can hit targets out to 500 yds on a regular basis with only the irons.

My Lever gun, like my pistols are in 45LC. I think a lever gun in 45-70 is a bit of overkill, but 45LC and 45-70 are great rounds that you can handreload with BP if need be without having to worry if you had an extra grain or 2 of powder in them.

Link Posted: 4/12/2006 3:05:38 PM EDT
The 45-70 is why you probably don't have too many buffaloe or native americans hanging around in your neighborhood.

Recoil Stout? YES

Overkill for BGs? YES at ranges under 300 yards

Are 45-70s fun to shoot? YES

In the house or around the neighborhood? NO

Most factory 45-70 loads in smokeless powder are loaded down to (hopefully) prevent kabooms in Trapdoors or similar vintage or similar steel guns. In a stronger action, as noted they can be really really oomphed up to the "Yah gotta be fricking kidding, I ain't gonna shoot that again.!!!" power and recoil level.

For comparison, the original blackpowder load used almost twice as much powder under a bullet more than twice as heavy of the legendary 45 Colt.
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