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Posted: 4/12/2006 5:54:57 AM EDT
How can we fight a war on terror when we cant/wont secure our borders? I'm confused here we send troops overseas then we leave the back door wide fucking open?
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 5:56:17 AM EDT
Bring the troops back from Iraq and put them on the Mexcriment border!!!
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 6:00:22 AM EDT
WOT is a joke. terror is a strategy used by an enemy. you fight the enemy, not his tactics. mis-defined, mis-fought = you loose or at least you don't/can't win. like the WOD (war on drugs).

so we're not doing a good job fighting either. problem is we empatize too much with both the peoples from whom both of these problems originate. and therefore don't have the will to solve either problem.. so we fight the symptoms of the deseases and not the deseases.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 6:02:45 AM EDT
Its simple...the southern border will never be closed by the .gov

Why? Because they are fucking politicians and only care about votes. There are 12 million (low in my opinion) illegals here, and 40 million legals. Those are huge potential and real voter blocks. Thats all any of these scumbags care about.

Neither party will "disenfranchise" these huge blocks, thus we will be taken over by Aztlanders, and this country will fall.

Between Aztlanders to the south and muslims from within, this countries days are numbered I am afraid...unless a stand is taken.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 6:08:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/12/2006 6:09:24 AM EDT by mstennes]
But if we take a stand we are labeled terrorists or criminals which ever the DOJ/prosicutors and the media decide to go with. As I see it were basicly screwed, we do something we end up being labeled crazies, more anti gun laws, WE end up in jails and the fucking illegals are still out free roaming our country and using our system against us????? WTF is wrong with this picture????????
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 6:15:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mstennes:
But if we take a stand we are labeled terrorists or criminals which ever the DOJ/prosicutors and the media decide to go with. As I see it were basicly screwed, we do something we end up being labeled crazies, more anti gun laws, WE end up in jails and the fucking illegals are still out free roaming our country and using our system against us????? WTF is wrong with this picture????????



thank the "patriot" act and our wonderful president.

the war on terror is a joke. It is impossible to wage a WAR on terrorists.

the idiotic homeland security threat level indicator with all its pretty colors was nothing more than scare tactic from day one.

the sheeple (including many on this board) hide their heads when we hit "orange" and give up any rights they have in deferment to the almight POTUS...

inbtba
(in before the bush apologists)

Link Posted: 4/12/2006 6:23:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rob78:

Originally Posted By mstennes:
But if we take a stand we are labeled terrorists or criminals which ever the DOJ/prosicutors and the media decide to go with. As I see it were basicly screwed, we do something we end up being labeled crazies, more anti gun laws, WE end up in jails and the fucking illegals are still out free roaming our country and using our system against us????? WTF is wrong with this picture????????



thank the "patriot" act and our wonderful president.

the war on terror is a joke. It is impossible to wage a WAR on terrorists.

the idiotic homeland security threat level indicator with all its pretty colors was nothing more than scare tactic from day one.

the sheeple (including many on this board) hide their heads when we hit "orange" and give up any rights they have in deferment to the almight POTUS...

inbtba
(in before the bush apologists)




1: While the Patriot Act had some very objectionable parts to me, all in all, it provides the .gov with the ability to go after bad guys.

2: The war on terror a joke? We can't win it? Tell that to our troops overseas giving up life and limb so no more attacks occur here...

3: The Terror-o-meter isn't really meant for you or me. It's for the sheeple who prior to 9/11/01 didn't have a clue there were people out there trying to kill American citizens. The ones that said "Why would they do this to us?" thinking the rest of the world was like their suburban soccer-mom-and-dad lifestyles.

4: Not sure what you meant by your last paragraph unless it was just a . When the terror-o-meter hits orange **I** (And most Arfcommers, I do believe) won't be hiding my head and giving up rights... I'll be locking and loading.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 6:23:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mstennes:
But if we take a stand we are labeled terrorists or criminals which ever the DOJ/prosicutors and the media decide to go with. As I see it were basicly screwed, we do something we end up being labeled crazies, more anti gun laws, WE end up in jails and the fucking illegals are still out free roaming our country and using our system against us????? WTF is wrong with this picture????????



the problem is more easily solved at the ballot box. much easier to have a concerted political effort that votes out most/many of the dead-weight currently in office than to have an armed revolt. problem though requires leadership and structure though and i see none currently.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 6:25:10 AM EDT
the war on terror is a joke. It is impossible to wage a WAR on terrorists.

Disagree completely, they have the troops they have to have looking for bin laden in the mountainous regions, special ops, and that's a special ops mission, there's only so much to do in afghanistan at the present.
The reasons for being in iraq and the reasons it can benefit the u.s. are much deeper than a lot of people seem to know. It might not be the best on the ground situation there at the present but then it's a very hard war to wargame overall and they're looking at what can benefit the u.s. 5 or 10 years away,not just the present, or avenging the past.
Afghanistan amounts to a band aid on the bigger problem.
The u.s. has lots of problems though presently that's for certain.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 6:34:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:

Originally Posted By rob78:

Originally Posted By mstennes:
But if we take a stand we are labeled terrorists or criminals which ever the DOJ/prosicutors and the media decide to go with. As I see it were basicly screwed, we do something we end up being labeled crazies, more anti gun laws, WE end up in jails and the fucking illegals are still out free roaming our country and using our system against us????? WTF is wrong with this picture????????



thank the "patriot" act and our wonderful president.

the war on terror is a joke. It is impossible to wage a WAR on terrorists.

the idiotic homeland security threat level indicator with all its pretty colors was nothing more than scare tactic from day one.

the sheeple (including many on this board) hide their heads when we hit "orange" and give up any rights they have in deferment to the almight POTUS...

inbtba
(in before the bush apologists)




1: While the Patriot Act had some very objectionable parts to me, all in all, it provides the .gov with the ability to go after bad guys.

2: The war on terror a joke? We can't win it? Tell that to our troops overseas giving up life and limb so no more attacks occur here...
3: The Terror-o-meter isn't really meant for you or me. It's for the sheeple who prior to 9/11/01 didn't have a clue there were people out there trying to kill American citizens. The ones that said "Why would they do this to us?" thinking the rest of the world was like their suburban soccer-mom-and-dad lifestyles.

4: Not sure what you meant by your last paragraph unless it was just a . When the terror-o-meter hits orange **I** (And most Arfcommers, I do believe) won't be hiding my head and giving up rights... I'll be locking and loading.



Don't misunderstand me, I appreciate what our soldiers are doing.

IMO our efforts should have been focused in Afghanistan with covert operations extending into our "allies" (Syria et al) territory.

Instead we're fighting several battles along multiple fronts (as many as three soon to be four) and our troops are over-extended.

I realize that I'm no war strategist, but I feel that our leader is a dud. Plain and simple. He's done nothing to better the interests of our wonderful nation.

Yes I was trolling for responses with the last paragraph. I'm tired, need more coffee, and am sick and fucking tired of the apathy our common man exudes.

Mmebers of this board are certainly active, but how many forget the fight afte they log off to eat a Big Mac???

Link Posted: 4/12/2006 6:47:40 AM EDT
my guess is they do have lots of ops over borders that people don't suspect, that's what special ops do, the best missions are the 1s people will never know about.
The troops are thin, but not much they can really do about it, that's a u.s. problem, not a adminastration problem. A lot of youths simply don't seem to have much patriotism and I read something on military.com a few weeks ago about how such a higher % of youths anymore are not eligible for service. But the u.s. still has to fight the wars.
And while bush hasn't done everything the way we'd all prefer, this adminastration has had a lot of real situations. Clinton ignored the terror threat and downsized the military.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 8:16:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rob78:

-snip-

Don't misunderstand me, I appreciate what our soldiers are doing.

IMO our efforts should have been focused in Afghanistan with covert operations extending into our "allies" (Syria et al) territory.

Instead we're fighting several battles along multiple fronts (as many as three soon to be four) and our troops are over-extended.

I realize that I'm no war strategist, but I feel that our leader is a dud. Plain and simple. He's done nothing to better the interests of our wonderful nation.

Yes I was trolling for responses with the last paragraph. I'm tired, need more coffee, and am sick and fucking tired of the apathy our common man exudes.

Mmebers of this board are certainly active, but how many forget the fight afte they log off to eat a Big Mac???




Heres the point, while you and I and other like minded people see that the southern border IS essential to the war on terror to keep muslim "terrorist" scumbags from sneaking in, the .gov does not see it that way, they see millions of potential voters.

We are fighting the war on terror, in Afghanistan, and Iraq....we have killed thousand and thousands of muslim "terrorist" scumbags who if left to other devices might have been thinking of new ways to aatack the US mainland.

But the allure of potential voters to the scumbag politicians (95% or better of them) outweighs the potential dangers from both possible muslim "terrorist" scumbags and the invasion of scumbag illegal mexicans and others from south of the border.

They are selling our country down the river for votes....the gov does not work anymore, and it certainly isn't for the people anymore, unless you are some scumbag that wants a socialist gov to take of you from cradle to grave....

And don't say the ballot box is a better way to solve the problem, because it isn't. Under the current form, pretty much all politicians are ensnared by the same system, and become just as corrupt and morally bankrupt. The solution as I see it shall not speak its name so as not to offend the CoC.....
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 1:13:46 PM EDT
I may have a different take on this.
I see the Immigration issue as a distraction to the WOT. As the Ropers watch they think we are distracted from them. Then the flash bang comes in the door.
It is like a majician they distract with one hand while they do something with the other.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 1:40:31 PM EDT
I think people are missing the primary motivation for the immigration reform.

It isn't just about votes and cheap labor, it's about population growth and demographics. It isn't a coincidence IMO that this comes about now, shortly after interest rates hit a bottom after a two decade gradual declining trend, and just before the boomers start to retire en-masse.

Left/right politics aside, this economy and this government are entirely dependent on monetary and social welfare systems that could only be described as Ponzi schemes if anyone other than the government were operating them. When the politicians say we need these workers for our economy, what they really mean is we need these people investing in the ponzi schemes to keep them from failing. Like all ponzis they ARE going to fail, the only question is will it be now or later, and how much will we sacrifice to put it off a few months or years.

This is about preserving the current monetary regime and the welfare/warfare state it makes possible, the chain of cause and effect goes back decades, to the new deal and the federal reserve act that spawned it.

There are no solutions to these effects without addressing the underlying causes, and addressing the monetary and social welfare issues is going to be VERY difficult and painful for everyone, which is why it won't be addressed by a democratic government.
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