Kid kills himself because school wont allow him to protest... Gun control charges pressed!! WTF? - Page 2

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Kid kills himself because school wont allow him to protest... Gun control charges pressed!! WTF? (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 4/12/2006 9:27:12 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
Quoted:

...Do I agree with CA's draconian safe storage laws? NO. They way I understand it a gun has to be locked up, unloaded, seperate from ammo, which also has to be locked up....

The law says no such thing.

What do they say? It's also why I said "the way I understand it"........................

Posted: 4/12/2006 9:28:29 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Quoted:
The article says Ontario.

It's Canada.

Rational thought stops at the border.

It might be Ontario, CA....

local.google.com/local?f=q&hl=en&q=ontario,+ca&ll=34.063333,-117.65&spn=0.832768,1.73584

East of LA

Posted: 4/12/2006 9:31:07 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Japan has more suicides then the US and has total gun control. the MYTH that restricting access to guns stops suicides is flat out lie.

Tell us about "child" suicides. Not middle aged, or elderly folks.........................

And again, I didn't say restricting guns would stop suicide. I even pointed out hanging seems to account for a bunch of suicides. But that people would have to work a bit harder to get the job done.

Next, you still haven't addressed the bad press, and statistics, etc. that can be used against gun owners when a CHILD committs suicide with a gun a parent LEFT UNSECURED.

Posted: 4/12/2006 9:35:14 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Quoted:

Japan has more suicides then the US and has total gun control. the MYTH that restricting access to guns stops suicides is flat out lie.

Tell us about "child" suicides. Not middle aged, or elderly folks.........................

And again, I didn't say restricting guns would stop suicide. I even pointed out hanging seems to account for a bunch of suicides. But that people would have to work a bit harder to get the job done.

Next, you still haven't addressed the bad press, and statistics, etc. that can be used against gun owners when a CHILD committs suicide with a gun a parent LEFT UNSECURED.

A lot of Japanese suicides occur when a child "fails" in school. So your attempt to make a subset that supports your argument has failed.

NEXT!

Posted: 4/12/2006 9:37:18 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

...What do they say? It's also why I said "the way I understand it"........................

It says a couple of things. The AG's Web site is running very slow today, so I'll summarize from memory:

- When you buy a firearm you have to also purchase a trigger lock. If you can certify that you own a state approved gun storage device (e.g. a safe), you are exempt from the trigger lock requirement.

- If a kid gets hold of one of your guns and kills or injures someone with it, you may be liable criminally if the state can show that you were negligent in how you stored your weapon.

The law does not dictate how to store your weapons in your own home. You can keep them all lying around loaded if you wish, but if a kid gets one and shoots someone you will be in deep yogurt without a spoon.

Posted: 4/12/2006 9:38:36 AM EDT

[#6]

IIRC isn't their exemption if the child has to commit a criminal act, such as breaking into your home, to get the gun?

Posted: 4/12/2006 9:39:39 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

IIRC isn't their exemption if the child has to commit a criminal act, such as breaking into your home, to get the gun?

It's not that specific IIRC.

Posted: 4/12/2006 9:40:15 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Japan has more suicides then the US and has total gun control. the MYTH that restricting access to guns stops suicides is flat out lie.

Tell us about "child" suicides. Not middle aged, or elderly folks.........................

And again, I didn't say restricting guns would stop suicide. I even pointed out hanging seems to account for a bunch of suicides. But that people would have to work a bit harder to get the job done.

Next, you still haven't addressed the bad press, and statistics, etc. that can be used against gun owners when a CHILD committs suicide with a gun a parent LEFT UNSECURED.

A lot of Japanese suicides occur when a child "fails" in school. So your attempt to make a subset that supports your argument has failed.

NEXT!

Great, NOW GENIUS, WHERE DID I SAY RESTRICTING ACCESS TO GUNS WOULD STOP SUICIDE. I DIDN'T. GET IT?

I SAID THAT RESTRICTING ACCESS TO GUNS WOULD KEEP GUN OWNERS FROM HAVING TO DEAL WITH THE BAD PRESS, STATISTICS ETC. WHEN A CHILD COMMITS SUICIDE WITH A GUN.

NOW TRY AND ARGUE THAT POINT, NOT ONE YOU MADE UP.

Posted: 4/12/2006 9:44:21 AM EDT

[#9]

www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=86406119832+4+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve

e) This section shall not apply if any one of the following
circumstances exists:
(1) The child obtains the firearm as a result of an illegal entry
into any premises by any person.
(2) The firearm is kept in a locked container or in a location
that a reasonable person would believe to be secure.
(3) The firearm is locked with a locking device that has rendered
the firearm inoperable.
(4) The firearm is carried on the person within such a close range
that the individual can readily retrieve and use the firearm as if
carried on the person.
(5) The person is a peace officer or a member of the Armed Forces
or National Guard and the child obtains the firearm during, or
incidental to, the performance of the person's duties.
(6) The child obtains, or obtains and discharges, the firearm in a
lawful act of self-defense or defense of another person or persons.

It implies if you live alone or without children you can't be charged.

Posted: 4/12/2006 9:45:01 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You know it's Cali. law for trigger locks or a safe, I know it is, and I'll assume the father did also.

But where I am shaking my head and wondering... WTF is where I say "HELLO??? DOES ANYONE SEE THE BIG FUCKING ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM and no one is talking about it"

There is SO MUCH MORE going on than a bullshit trigger lock law that is going on. Kid was SET on killing himself... So if the kid used a steak knife this wouldnt be an issue?

Family is devastated that a child is dead and HEY!! HERE IS A GREAT IDEA... ARREST THE DAD AS HE IS MOURNING!!! FUCKING NICE!!!!

I SWEAR WTF are the lawmakers thinking?? REALLY!!!!!

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!!!

it's easier to scream "we need gun control" then it is to address the *real* problem. if we address the real problem, we will have to face things like "racism", "diversity", pollitical correctness", and all sorts of social programs and policies, as well as some fundimental truths that may not be all that palletable.

plus, consider that the people who scream gun control are usually the ones who are responsible for all the aforementioned topics.

THANK YOU!!!

You have put my thoughts eloquently into words that my emotions were not allowing me to. THAT is what I was trying to say!!!!

Eighth grader Anthony Soltero shot himself on Thursday, March 30, after the assistant principal at De Anza Middle School told him that he was going to prison for three years because of his involvement as an organizer of the April 28 school walk-outs to protest the anti-immigrant legislation in Washington. The vice principal also forbade Anthony from attending graduation activities and threatened to fine his mother for Anthony's truancy and participation in the student protests."

Anthony was learning about the importance of civic duties and rights in his eighth grade class. Ironically, he died because the vice principal at his school threatened him for speaking out and exercising those rights," Ms. Corales said today. "I want to speak out to other parents, whose children are attending the continuing protests this week. We have to let the schools know that they can't punish our children for exercising their rights."

FUCK GUN CONTROL, WE NEED TEACHER CONTROL

Posted: 4/12/2006 9:48:23 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Japan has more suicides then the US and has total gun control. the MYTH that restricting access to guns stops suicides is flat out lie.

Tell us about "child" suicides. Not middle aged, or elderly folks.........................

And again, I didn't say restricting guns would stop suicide. I even pointed out hanging seems to account for a bunch of suicides. But that people would have to work a bit harder to get the job done.

Next, you still haven't addressed the bad press, and statistics, etc. that can be used against gun owners when a CHILD committs suicide with a gun a parent LEFT UNSECURED.

A lot of Japanese suicides occur when a child "fails" in school. So your attempt to make a subset that supports your argument has failed.

NEXT!

Great, NOW GENIUS, WHERE DID I SAY RESTRICTING ACCESS TO GUNS WOULD STOP SUICIDE. I DIDN'T. GET IT?

I SAID THAT RESTRICTING ACCESS TO GUNS WOULD KEEP GUN OWNERS FROM HAVING TO DEAL WITH THE BAD PRESS, STATISTICS ETC. WHEN A CHILD COMMITS SUICIDE WITH A GUN.

NOW TRY AND ARGUE THAT POINT, NOT ONE YOU MADE UP.

You said "Tell us about "child" suicides. Not middle aged, or elderly folks........................."

implying the higher rates didn't have anything to do with children. You are wrong. And were PWNED.

Posting in caps doesn't make you right.

Please drive through.
NEXT!

Posted: 4/12/2006 9:53:19 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=86406119832+4+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve
e) This section shall not apply if any one of the following
circumstances exists:
(1) The child obtains the firearm as a result of an illegal entry
into any premises by any person....

It implies if you live alone or without children you can't be charged.

The next sub-paragraph after the part Tannim quoted says so explicitly:

(7) The person who keeps a loaded firearm on any premise that is
under his or her custody or control has no reasonable expectation,
based on objective facts and circumstances, that a child is likely to
be present on the premises.

Posted: 4/12/2006 9:56:12 AM EDT

[#13]

even better

Posted: 4/12/2006 9:56:38 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
You said "Tell us about "child" suicides. Not middle aged, or elderly folks........................."

implying the higher rates didn't have anything to do with children. You are wrong. And were PWNED.

Posting in caps doesn't make you right.

Please drive through.
NEXT!

Yeah, you just can't argue the point that children committing sucide with guns, is bad press for gun owners.

I got you. When you don't have a leg to stand on change the arguement.

Even the statment you highlighted, still doesn't support your arguement that you made up.

Posted: 4/12/2006 11:23:10 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Quoted:

"The parent left out a weapon, which is open access and is against the law," (Ontario police Lt. John) Evans said.

That pretty much sums it up. The step father broke the law. It is a stupid retarded law, but a law none-the-less.

We don't know this for sure. The kid could have known where his father kept the keys to the safe/gunlocks and unlocked them.

Posted: 4/12/2006 12:24:25 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

"The parent left out a weapon, which is open access and is against the law," (Ontario police Lt. John) Evans said.

That pretty much sums it up. The step father broke the law. It is a stupid retarded law, but a law none-the-less.

We don't know this for sure. The kid could have known where his father kept the keys to the safe/gunlocks and unlocked them.

"Open access" is not against the law in Ontario or anywhere else in Cali, even when you have kids in the house. The law kicks in only when a kid picks up the gun and shoots someone.

Posted: 4/12/2006 12:38:51 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
I can't see how you guys are opposed to a law that clearly requires someone to be a responsible adult.

While there is little doubt in my mind that if he didn't have access to a gun, he would have still killed himself, the fact remains that the parents were negligent and allowed a minor access to a firearm and ammunition.

If it was YOUR kid visiting someone else's house you'd sue the parents and hold them responsible financially for this scenario. Why not make it criminal as well?

If you have children in your home, it is your responsibility to secure your firearms. If you don't do so, i'd call that criminal negligence. The parents SHOULD go to jail.

The only way we will ever be able to continue to own firearms in this country is if we are responsible. If you do not hold these parents responsible for their actions, how can you expect the gun grabbers NOT to punish us by taking our guns away completely?

Yes, we expect freedom in a free society, but we also expect that our citizens will use that freedom responsibly...and these people did not.

Maybe because we don't like the government interfering in every aspect of our lives.

So if your kid gets ahold of your antifreeze or bleach and kills themselves you should go to jail too?

Making everything a criminal offense does not solve problems or make the situation any better. These parents are probably devastated by the action their son took and their mistake for leaving a firearm out, and you think it is justice to throw them in jail? I think not.

Posted: 4/12/2006 12:45:47 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
OK so, kid wants to protest... schools says "no"
Kid is upset... goes home and kills himself.
Stepdad is in trouble for not locking his gun... WTF??

AM I MISSING SOMETHING HERE????????

Yeah, is a news story from Canada. Nothing to see here, move along.

Posted: 4/12/2006 12:47:22 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

"The parent left out a weapon, which is open access and is against the law," (Ontario police Lt. John) Evans said.

That pretty much sums it up. The step father broke the law. It is a stupid retarded law, but a law none-the-less.

We don't know this for sure. The kid could have known where his father kept the keys to the safe/gunlocks and unlocked them.

"Open access" is not against the law in Ontario or anywhere else in Cali, even when you have kids in the house. The law kicks in only when a kid picks up the gun and shoots someone.

So at the time of purchase you are required to have a state approved safe or purchase a trigger lock, but you don't have to actually use the safe or lock?

Posted: 4/12/2006 12:47:31 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Quoted:
...AM I MISSING SOMETHING HERE????????

Yeah, is a news story from Canada. Nothing to see here, move along.

Posted: 4/12/2006 12:48:05 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
...So at the time of purchase you are required to have a state approved safe or purchase a trigger lock, but you don't have to actually use the safe or lock?

Precisely.

Posted: 4/12/2006 12:59:39 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Jesus, that kid had balls. To kill himself in protest... shit.

BTW, where the fuck did this happen? Why does the article keep mentioning San Bernardino and Ontario - did it happen in Kali or in Canada?

What about that guy who killed himself because Bush got elected.

Survival of the fitest in action. Those who can't fight, die.

My care-o-meter is broken. All of this shit, I just don't care anymore. Fuck this kid and the stupid people in this country. I am ashamed of being an American right now. All of this illegal bullshit is nothing but a shit sandwich and we will be forced to all take a big bite of it.

Illegals are going to be granted ammensty, just like under Reagan and nobody will do anything about it. NOTHING. Piss and moan, piss and moan and in the end...bend over and take it like a good boy.

Most of you get down on me because I keep saying "ALL policitians are bad". ARE YOU SEEING IT YET? WELL?

We have the best form of government and it's been corrupted and all we can do is go to work, get pissed and hope Walmart has what we went in there for.

Everyone in the government...

...Americans

Get it?

Posted: 4/12/2006 1:53:18 PM EDT

[#23]

Was the family US citizens or were they illegal aliens? I sorta want to know this. If they were illegal aliens, my sympathy is diminished.

Posted: 4/12/2006 1:56:55 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Quoted:
You know it's Cali. law for trigger locks or a safe, I know it is, and I'll assume the father did also.

But where I am shaking my head and wondering... WTF is where I say "HELLO??? DOES ANYONE SEE THE BIG FUCKING ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM and no one is talking about it"

There is SO MUCH MORE going on than a bullshit trigger lock law that is going on. Kid was SET on killing himself... So if the kid used a steak knife this wouldnt be an issue?

Family is devastated that a child is dead and HEY!! HERE IS A GREAT IDEA... ARREST THE DAD AS HE IS MOURNING!!! FUCKING NICE!!!!

I SWEAR WTF are the lawmakers thinking?? REALLY!!!!!

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!!!

X 11billion

Posted: 4/12/2006 2:02:40 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You know it's Cali. law for trigger locks or a safe, I know it is, and I'll assume the father did also.

But where I am shaking my head and wondering... WTF is where I say "HELLO??? DOES ANYONE SEE THE BIG FUCKING ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM and no one is talking about it"

There is SO MUCH MORE going on than a bullshit trigger lock law that is going on. Kid was SET on killing himself... So if the kid used a steak knife this wouldnt be an issue?

Family is devastated that a child is dead and HEY!! HERE IS A GREAT IDEA... ARREST THE DAD AS HE IS MOURNING!!! FUCKING NICE!!!!

I SWEAR WTF are the lawmakers thinking?? REALLY!!!!!

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!!!

How do you know the kid was "set on killing himself"? How many kids act impulsively w/o thinking through the consequences of their actions?

Even if he is "set on killing himself", if his parents knew that, wouldn't them leaving an unsecure weapon around be WORSE than if he was "stable"?

Even if he is "set on killing himself", why make it easy for him to succeed?

If all guns were gone tommorow morning,what would we ban next?

boxcutters

Posted: 4/12/2006 2:32:52 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
OK so, kid wants to protest... schools says "no"
Kid is upset... goes home and kills himself.
Stepdad is in trouble for not locking his gun... WTF??

AM I MISSING SOMETHING HERE????????

ONTARIO - .

That's all the farther I needed to go to answer your question.

Posted: 4/12/2006 4:14:43 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Quoted:
You said "Tell us about "child" suicides. Not middle aged, or elderly folks........................."

implying the higher rates didn't have anything to do with children. You are wrong. And were PWNED.

Posting in caps doesn't make you right.

Please drive through.
NEXT!

Yeah, you just can't argue the point that children committing sucide with guns, is bad press for gun owners.

I got you. When you don't have a leg to stand on change the arguement.

Even the statment you highlighted, still doesn't support your arguement that you made up.

The sun rises in the east. The moon is made of green cheese. Water's chemical formula is H2O.

I SAID 2 THINGS YOU'RE NOT DISPUTING. MY POST IS CORRECT BECAUSE I POST IN ALL CAPS.

Your other points are irrelevant because I wasn't addressing them. You are trying to shift the argument becuase you got owned. PERIOD. You tried to spin and failed. Therefore you try to shift focus.

It doesn't change you were wrong. Point in another direction and shouting OMG, LOOK AT THAT isn't working.

NEXT

Posted: 4/12/2006 9:51:28 PM EDT

[#28]

My dad kept his rifles in the closet and the trigger lock was the FEAR THAT HE WOULD KICK MY ASS IF I TOUCHED THE GUNS!

He taught me at age 7 .. "DONT SCREW WITH THE GUNS>>> THEY KILL"

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Kid kills himself because school wont allow him to protest... Gun control charges pressed!! WTF? (Page 2 of 2)

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