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Posted: 4/11/2006 7:55:49 PM EDT
Could a new party grow fast in the current political enviornment?


Think about the current state of affairs.

Republicans are now the party of pork spending and clearly lack resolve to actually implement change.
Democrats are just out of touch in many cases, and outright socialists in most cases.
Libertarians, two words border and military
Greens, I am at a loss for words.
Constitution = Fundamentalism


Crux issues

Constitutional rights (all of them)
Representation
Border / immigration / INS reform
Spending
Tax reform
Bereaucrasy
Military deployment and policy abroad
Centralization and growth of Government
States rights / Federalization
Gun Control
United Nations


Your thoughts? Platform on the above?
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 7:56:42 PM EDT
the Libertarians could really clean up if they actually dropped the whole dope deal and focused on these issues
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 7:59:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
the Libertarians could really clean up if they actually dropped the whole dope deal and focused on these issues




Thier platform

Border = Open wider
Military = The less the better and strictly defensive.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 7:59:55 PM EDT
That port deal alone had me thinking someday the Gov't would just sell the country off to China and retire to Aspen.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:00:59 PM EDT

The time is ripe for a third party if ever there was one.

I am going Constitution Party
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:01:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Silesius:
That port deal alone had me thinking someday the Gov't would just sell the country off to China and retire to Aspen.



Would have backed the port deal in hindsight heh? ChiComs get more ports and still no cheap AKs.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:04:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
The time is ripe for a third party if ever there was one.

I am going Constitution Party



Ok how many non fundies can they attract or fundies for that matter. Assuming of course a majority of fundies knew who they were and what they stood for? Long odds just on name recognition much less anything else. Got 10million freinds?
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:06:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 8:09:46 PM EDT by PromptCritical]
In defense of the Libertarians, the open border wouldn't be all that bad, because if they had their way there would be no way for the immigrants to suck on the govt. teat. They would have to either become productive citizens or starve. The only remaining issue would be the security aspects, which they are naive about, to say the least...

WHat we really should do, is co-opt a current party, since they will already have the groundwork set up. The libertarians would be my first choice because I mostly agree with the platform, with the exception of the open borders policy, and the anti military views. I think if we could get in there, convince them to lay off on opening the borders totally, and convince them that there's nothing wrong with a strong military, just how it's used (like guns), they might just be viable. The real trick is breaking the backs of the dems and republicans...
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:06:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
The time is ripe for a third party if ever there was one.

I am going Constitution Party



Ok how many non fundies can they attract or fundies for that matter. Assuming of course a majority of fundies knew who they were and what they stood for? Long odds just on name recognition much less anything else. Got 10million freinds?



Looking to the future.

Probably too late but I will NEVER vote for a Republican again. NEVER.
And socialists are absolutely out of the question.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:11:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PromptCritical:
In defense of the Libertarians, the open border wouldn't be all that bad, because if they had their way there would be no way for the immigrants to suck on the govt. teat. They would have to either become productive citizens or starve. The only remaining issue would be the security aspects, which they are naive about, to say the least...



I love and support the idea and would even call myself more Libertarian than Conservative but this is about herding the masses support on the issues. Short of killing all of Soc Sec age you will never convince voters to cut gov charity. The other thing that scares me about the LP is thier absolute aversion to use of force to affect change. Short of China invading CONUS people like Ron Paul would never use force.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:14:16 PM EDT
Libertarian National Convention is being held here in Portland. I might just go for shits and giggles, but it cost $98 just to attend...
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:15:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
The time is ripe for a third party if ever there was one.

I am going Constitution Party



Ok how many non fundies can they attract or fundies for that matter. Assuming of course a majority of fundies knew who they were and what they stood for? Long odds just on name recognition much less anything else. Got 10million freinds?



Looking to the future.

Probably too late but I will NEVER vote for a Republican again. NEVER.
And socialists are absolutely out of the question.




If you are willing to accept an open boarder your a Libertarian.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:32:23 PM EDT
Bump for more. How about platforms for the above issues?
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:34:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
The time is ripe for a third party if ever there was one.

I am going Constitution Party



That makes two of us. www.constitutionparty.com/
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:42:53 PM EDT
Does not the Constitution Party wish to force everyone to live in the US under biblical law?

Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:45:22 PM EDT
Time for talk is over - BRICK FIRE MISSION
Get motivated - Stop the banter and do somthing befor its to late. Tell everyone you meet to get on board.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:47:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MidnightRambler:
Does not the Constitution Party wish to force everyone to live in the US under biblical law?




Define force and what level of it is acceptable?
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:47:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 9:51:34 PM EDT by copenhagen]
The constitution expresses forbids a state sponsored religion. The constitution guarantees the right to worship any religion. The answer would be no. edit---------This is off of the constitution party web site.
Religious Freedom

Article I of the Bill of Rights reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

Our Constitution grants no authority to the federal government either to grant or deny the religious expressions of the people in any place. Both the First and Tenth Amendments forbid such tyranny.

We call upon all branches of government to cease their attacks on the religious liberties of the people and the states, regardless of the forum in which these liberties are exercised.

We assert that any form of taxation on churches and other religious organizations is a direct and dangerous step toward state control of the church. Such intrusion is prohibited by the Constitution and must be halted.

We assert that private organizations such as the Boy Scouts of America, can determine their own membership, volunteers, and employment based on their oaths and creeds.

Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:48:04 PM EDT
My understanding is they wish to invoke biblical law and rewrite the US laws to reflect it.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 11:25:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MidnightRambler:
My understanding is they wish to invoke biblical law and rewrite the US laws to reflect it.



They seem to be very careful in avoiding that. Read their platform. They basically say that they will limit government to only that allowed by the constitution, but will also "encourage" the states to go in line with beliefs that step over the constitutional line. Read the abortion and drug sections. They basically admit that the fed cannot legislate in these areas, but they can encourage the states to do it. Basically saying, "We hate it, but don't have the power to ban it, so we really want the states to ban it." Sounds good to me. Give the states the power to do what they want, but the feds need to stay out of it.

So far, the only problem I have with the constitution party is their constant bombardment with religious stuff. Not knocking any religious people here, far from it. But I'm not so religious myself, and it gets kind of irritating having the dogma pushed at me.

I do like their statements about the military, however.

If I can just find a medium between the religiousness of the constitution party and the hippyness of the libertarians, I would be set.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 11:38:28 PM EDT
I'm seriously looking into the Constitution Party. I've check them out several years ago and they appeared very much snagged up on their religious basis for government. These days the religion seems to have taken a back seat and the principles of the party have taken a front seat. All I've read and experienced so far with them is positive.

I still have more research and thinking to do.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 11:42:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 11:42:46 PM EDT by swingset]
$$ and status quo dictates political power, not principles.....at least not this far into the game.

Things will have to devolve into near chaos to dislodge the 2-party system.

Want proof? Start a thread in GD proclaiming you're not voting Republican anymore, ever, and see how many people chastise you for it. If a 3rd party has a chance anywhere in America, it would be here on ARFcom, yet you'll see ample evidence it's not in the cards.

Sad.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 11:46:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
The time is ripe for a third party if ever there was one.

I am going Constitution Party



It's the closest, but the guy they ran last year was a joke.

I think we need to form the "not one fucking cent" party. Millions of taxPAYERS who make a stand that the government isn't going to get one fucking cent until it cleans up its act.

The government understands two things only: Power and money. They'll use their power to get your money.

Have a couple million producers (includign a few prime movers) go on a tax strike and they can't put them in jail. They won't have any fucking money to build the new jails they'd need.

Link Posted: 4/11/2006 11:57:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
The time is ripe for a third party if ever there was one.

I am going Constitution Party



It's the closest, but the guy they ran last year was a joke.

I think we need to form the "not one fucking cent" party. Millions of taxPAYERS who make a stand that the government isn't going to get one fucking cent until it cleans up its act.

The government understands two things only: Power and money. They'll use their power to get your money.

Have a couple million producers (includign a few prime movers) go on a tax strike and they can't put them in jail. They won't have any fucking money to build the new jails they'd need.




First you gotta get the money. Then you get the power. Then you get the women...
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 8:06:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
The time is ripe for a third party if ever there was one.

I am going Constitution Party



Ok how many non fundies can they attract or fundies for that matter. Assuming of course a majority of fundies knew who they were and what they stood for? Long odds just on name recognition much less anything else. Got 10million freinds?



Looking to the future.

Probably too late but I will NEVER vote for a Republican again. NEVER.
And socialists are absolutely out of the question.




If you are willing to accept an open boarder your a Libertarian.



I don't and I'm not.
Won't ever go for the Libertarian Party either.

We are really in a mess right now and I see no sign anyone even wants to try to straighten it all out. Talk about a lack of leadership...
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 8:20:11 AM EDT
we're looking down the barrel of a balkanized country with civil war and millions dead and forgin governments intertwined into our affairs.....probably won't happen in your lifetime but your children will definately suffer under some form of local war and the constitution will only be a subject of past history.


nice knowing all of you folks........time to fade away
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 2:48:46 PM EDT
Let's get Ted Nugent to form the Ted Nugent Party. I'll vote for him.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 5:53:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By stormwalker:
we're looking down the barrel of a balkanized country with civil war and millions dead and forgin governments intertwined into our affairs.....probably won't happen in your lifetime but your children will definately suffer under some form of local war and the constitution will only be a subject of past history.


nice knowing all of you folks........time to fade away



That's what I'm afraid of. It will go slowly downhill untill most of the population has grown up conditioned to accept it, then it will go to shit real fast...
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 6:25:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PromptCritical:

Originally Posted By stormwalker:
we're looking down the barrel of a balkanized country with civil war and millions dead and forgin governments intertwined into our affairs.....probably won't happen in your lifetime but your children will definately suffer under some form of local war and the constitution will only be a subject of past history.


nice knowing all of you folks........time to fade away



That's what I'm afraid of. It will go slowly downhill untill most of the population has grown up conditioned to accept it, then it will go to shit real fast...



There are so many variables ongoing right now that nobody can predict much of anything. Things could go to shit this summer, might take 10 years, 25 years. I can't see it going much beyond that though.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 9:26:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By PromptCritical:

Originally Posted By stormwalker:
we're looking down the barrel of a balkanized country with civil war and millions dead and forgin governments intertwined into our affairs.....probably won't happen in your lifetime but your children will definately suffer under some form of local war and the constitution will only be a subject of past history.


nice knowing all of you folks........time to fade away



That's what I'm afraid of. It will go slowly downhill untill most of the population has grown up conditioned to accept it, then it will go to shit real fast...



There are so many variables ongoing right now that nobody can predict much of anything. Things could go to shit this summer, might take 10 years, 25 years. I can't see it going much beyond that though.




My prediction we are subjects on par with the brits in 5 years, it does not matter who wins in 2008, our gun rights gone in ten years, and civil war within 15 years.
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