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Posted: 4/11/2006 3:06:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 3:35:30 PM EDT by miamilightning]
bfieldburt's previous post (linked here ) about the CFR's desire to 'eliminate' the northern and southern border of the U.S. by 2010 got me thinking. We here at arfcom often get chided for our 'wet-dream' SHTF fantasies - evidenced by the inumerable 'what round is best for looters' or 'would you ever surrender your weapons' type posts. But, recent events like the immigration protests and our government's complete and utter (and puzzling) capitulation to the illegals demands are starting to make me believe that such a draconian ceding of our sovereignty to some ethereal 'North American Community' is not only possible but inevitable. Is that a SHTF scenerio?

QUESTION: Would:

a) Americans, on the whole, stand for this?

b) You stand for this?

I'm not sure I could live to see the day that the dreams of our Founding Fathers are finally and completely killed and, as a lover of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, not do SOMETHING.

What say you?
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:08:22 PM EDT
i don't think that would fly. americans would be exercizing their TRUE 2A rights at that point
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:15:03 PM EDT
I'd like to think so, N_T, but I'm not so sure....
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:16:09 PM EDT
wont matter after 2012
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:24:29 PM EDT
Sounds to me like they want to turn North America in something like the European Union. If so, then it won't be a total surrender of sovergeinty, there will still be a shell left to make people feel comfortable that their nation hasn't been eliminated. In that case:

A) Yes, I think that people will "stand" go for it, if by "stand" you mean sit back and let it happen with out saying a word.

B) HELLZ NO!
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:31:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Sounds to me like they want to turn North America in something like the European Union. If so, then it won't be a total surrender of sovergeinty, there will still be a shell left to make people feel comfortable that their nation hasn't been eliminated. In that case:

A) Yes, I think that people will "stand" go for it, if by "stand" you mean sit back and let it happen with out saying a word.

B) HELLZ NO!



Jefferson, Paine, Madison, et al never envisioned this nation as a 'shell'. Is that Paul Revere I hear......
"To Arms! To Arms!"
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:33:25 PM EDT

What say you?


Que?
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:39:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By miamilightning:
We here at arfcom often get chided for our 'wet-dream' SHTF fantasies



Since NO any chiding is only done by people with NO grasp of reality

I've had several conversations with sheeple that showed me that even
THEY understand how bad it can get and how quick it can happen

As far as the "one country" concept, OUR .gov is NOT interested in our opinion anymore...........
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:44:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:


As far as the "one country" concept, OUR .gov is NOT interested in our opinion anymore...........



Thomas Jefferson: "All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. "

Our silence is deafening.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:55:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 3:56:42 PM EDT by 22bad]

Originally Posted By miamilightning:

Originally Posted By 22bad:


As far as the "one country" concept, OUR .gov is NOT interested in our opinion anymore...........



Thomas Jefferson: "All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. "

Our silence is deafening.



For the past year I have read interviews from MANY legislators, they all say pretty much the same thing
They all say "everywhere I go the most important issue that voters want to discuss is illegal immigration"

The entire country is telling them, they are just not concerned with OUR opinion, they think illegals will re-elect them
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 4:04:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By st0newall:
wont matter after 2012



Yeah...I've got a two year supply of ammo.....I'll be just fine
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 4:13:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By azhammer:

Originally Posted By st0newall:
wont matter after 2012



Yeah...I've got a two year supply of ammo.....I'll be just fine



Ditto. Wife used to think I was nuts. Now she reminds me that I haven't bought the extra cartridges for the emergency water filter yet. She's a believer. (and a keeper)
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 4:25:56 PM EDT
You ain't losing you Norther Border, WE don't want your easterners flocking up here, we have enough Fucking Liberals, and don't get me started on those goddamned dirty Hippies!!!!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 4:36:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By miamilightning:

Originally Posted By azhammer:

Originally Posted By st0newall:
wont matter after 2012



Yeah...I've got a two year supply of ammo.....I'll be just fine



Ditto. Wife used to think I was nuts. Now she reminds me that I haven't bought the extra cartridges for the emergency water filter yet. She's a believer. (and a keeper)




Can you explain the 2012 thing???
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 6:43:53 PM EDT
Mayan calendar mysteriously 'ends' on December 2012.

Paging Art Bell...
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 6:48:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TacticalPenguin:
You ain't losing you Norther Border, WE don't want your easterners flocking up here, we have enough Fucking Liberals, and don't get me started on those goddamned dirty Hippies!!!!!!!!!!!

He he.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 6:54:04 PM EDT
I don't know man, I kmow there are some bad times ahead bro's. Its just too bad we are so scattered around the nation
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 6:55:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:
i don't think that would fly. americans would be exercizing their TRUE 2A rights at that point



only a few from this site, the reason being the militia is not anarchy, it is not a bunch of bowman's assassinating their enemies, the militia is the people in their own neighborhoods organizing and electing competent officers, training in public, and swearing an oath to defend natural rights.

Government is not coming to the rescue, organize, train, equip, elect officers, for youself or continue into chaos and anarchy and feudalism.

Link Posted: 4/11/2006 6:57:01 PM EDT
I'ld be willing to absorb Western Canada and the Maritimes into the US, They can keep Ontario and Quebec.

I think a far more likely scenario is a total collapse of Mexico into some kind of semi-anarchic gawd-awful mess. We would then absorb Baja into the US as a Commonwealth similar to Puerto Rico.

Baja has the size and population that absorbtion wouldn't be too bad, if we could keep the flood of Mexicans trying to escape the mess from getting into Baja first.

But Americans being the nice guys we are if Mexico realy tanks it really really bad, we'ld probably try to help them out. Or for pragmatic reasons, an uncontrolled Mexico in ruins on our Southern Border would cause problems making those of day seem like the good old days. And it's not like there aren't a few governments that wouldn't love to see that happen.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 7:19:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 7:21:54 PM EDT by lippo]

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:
i don't think that would fly. americans would be exercizing their TRUE 2A rights at that point



only a few from this site, the reason being the militia is not anarchy, it is not a bunch of bowman's assassinating their enemies, the militia is the people in their own neighborhoods organizing and electing competent officers, training in public, and swearing an oath to defend natural rights.

Government is not coming to the rescue, organize, train, equip, elect officers, for youself or continue into chaos and anarchy and feudalism.





Strat, I love to read your posts and I respect the true patriotism that you have, but I seriously doubt the highlighted would or could happen.

First, most people don't have a clue what are natural Rights. And even if you enlightened them on them, 99% wouldn't be willing to lay down their life for them.

Second, the militia will never be organized like it was back during the Revolution or before it. With our media today, the way people don't even know their neighbors and how the government will exert control..."true patriots" trying to uphold our Consitution and our natural Rights will be categorized as terrorists and will be rounded up by even some of the LEO's on this site. The real killer of this country, which will bring it down to it's knees, lives here and controls it today. And it has a far more sophisticated intellegence than you give it credit for.

Third, all gun owners do is argue. Crap, just getting a get together shoot is a major undertaking here. Getting bands of patriots together working for one cause is probably not going to happen. Face it, most Americans are too busy with their jobs and trying to get the money to pay for that next six pack, to worry about what's going on in this country. People get pissed, but hardly do anything about it. Me? I decided to have my own personal rally. I went down to my US Senators office...personally...to hand them facts on illegals and how they are destroying our country. IN PERSON. Phone calls don't do jack. Our legislators have recognized this...illegals have rallies...American's just piss and moan...and then don't do anything about it. So who's going to probably win? The illegals.

Man, I am just as pissed about all of this as you are, but if we are to live in a country of laws and people are suppose to follow them...then "us" law abiding citizens will always get screwed over. Plain and simple. I don't feel like going to jail at this time, nor do I want to in the future. But if SHTF or EOTWAWKI, then like you said, it's every man for himself and his family. Until then, if politicians don't feel the sting of their votes and legislation, then they won't learn. Period.

Until SHTF or otherwise, training and organization is for fun and is really a pipe dream. What we need is those underground SF guys (if they actually exist) to start feeding the hogs. Then the politicians will take notice. Until that time, you might as well realize we are going to be screwed. Because ALL politicians are LIARS and THIEVES. Period.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 7:24:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:

Originally Posted By miamilightning:
We here at arfcom often get chided for our 'wet-dream' SHTF fantasies



Since NO any chiding is only done by people with NO grasp of reality

I've had several conversations with sheeple that showed me that even
THEY understand how bad it can get and how quick it can happen

As far as the "one country" concept, OUR .gov is NOT interested in our opinion anymore...........




+1


(you hit the nail on the head)
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 7:38:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lippo:


First, most people don't have a clue what are natural Rights. And even if you enlightened them on them, 99% wouldn't be willing to lay down their life for them.

Second, the militia will never be organized like it was back during the Revolution or before it. With our media today, the way people don't even know their neighbors and how the government will exert control..."true patriots" trying to uphold our Consitution and our natural Rights will be categorized as terrorists and will be rounded up by even some of the LEO's on this site. The real killer of this country, which will bring it down to it's knees, lives here and controls it today. And it has a far more sophisticated intellegence than you give it credit for.



Agreed it is not easy but that does not mean I will concede the fight without exhausting every possible option however remote.

People are still comfortable, the demand for remedy only exists a small afflicted minority but working with that group I have a few very interested neighbors that are willing to do more than talk.

On the armed services and police issue there are also sympathetic consciences.

We will never restore America to what it never was in the last century, a limited constitutional republic with an educated electorit, but we can create small instructor cadres capable of rapidly training people as the necessity dictates.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:01:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:

Originally Posted By lippo:


First, most people don't have a clue what are natural Rights. And even if you enlightened them on them, 99% wouldn't be willing to lay down their life for them.

Second, the militia will never be organized like it was back during the Revolution or before it. With our media today, the way people don't even know their neighbors and how the government will exert control..."true patriots" trying to uphold our Consitution and our natural Rights will be categorized as terrorists and will be rounded up by even some of the LEO's on this site. The real killer of this country, which will bring it down to it's knees, lives here and controls it today. And it has a far more sophisticated intellegence than you give it credit for.



Agreed it is not easy but that does not mean I will concede the fight without exhausting every possible option however remote.

People are still comfortable, the demand for remedy only exists a small afflicted minority but working with that group I have a few very interested neighbors that are willing to do more than talk.

On the armed services and police issue there are also sympathetic consciences. (I hope you are right. But the more time goes along, the less I believe it.)

We will never restore America to what it never was in the last century, a limited constitutional republic with an educated electorit, but we can create small instructor cadres capable of rapidly training people as the necessity dictates.



Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:09:56 PM EDT
Mexicans are too proud of their homeland to have it become part of the U.S.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:20:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 8:20:52 PM EDT by Special-K]

Originally Posted By Silesius:
Mexicans are too proud of their homeland to have it become part of the U.S.




You don't seriously believe that, do you? I mean, you're kidding. Right???......



I think I'll go out and buy more 'rainy day' stuff tomorrow. I don't know if it will really happen, but preparing will at least make me feel a little better about it.


-K
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:22:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:

Originally Posted By miamilightning:
We here at arfcom often get chided for our 'wet-dream' SHTF fantasies



Since NO any chiding is only done by people with NO grasp of reality

I've had several conversations with sheeple that showed me that even
THEY understand how bad it can get and how quick it can happen

As far as the "one country" concept, OUR .gov is NOT interested in our opinion anymore...........



I am not so sure that is true, rather, I think we are a constantly shrinking minority whose voice is drowned out with the bleating of the sheep
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 12:51:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bubblehead597:

Originally Posted By 22bad:

Originally Posted By miamilightning:
We here at arfcom often get chided for our 'wet-dream' SHTF fantasies



Since NO any chiding is only done by people with NO grasp of reality

I've had several conversations with sheeple that showed me that even
THEY understand how bad it can get and how quick it can happen

As far as the "one country" concept, OUR .gov is NOT interested in our opinion anymore...........



I am not so sure that is true, rather, I think we are a constantly shrinking minority whose voice is drowned out with the bleating of the sheep




The government is only interested in those that scare them the most. Gun owners don't scare the government because most of us want to be law abiding citizens. There are MILLIONS of law breaking illegals that are willing to fight, these rallies are just the start if they don't get their way, and in trying to "keep the peace" the government will cow down to them.

Plain and simple with politics...the squeaky wheel that can run over you get's the grease.

We live in a Representative Republic based on a Constitution and Bill of Rights....yeah right.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 5:23:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lippo:

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:
i don't think that would fly. americans would be exercizing their TRUE 2A rights at that point



only a few from this site, the reason being the militia is not anarchy, it is not a bunch of bowman's assassinating their enemies, the militia is the people in their own neighborhoods organizing and electing competent officers, training in public, and swearing an oath to defend natural rights.

Government is not coming to the rescue, organize, train, equip, elect officers, for youself or continue into chaos and anarchy and feudalism.





Strat, I love to read your posts and I respect the true patriotism that you have, but I seriously doubt the highlighted would or could happen.

First, most people don't have a clue what are natural Rights. And even if you enlightened them on them, 99% wouldn't be willing to lay down their life for them.

Second, the militia will never be organized like it was back during the Revolution or before it. With our media today, the way people don't even know their neighbors and how the government will exert control..."true patriots" trying to uphold our Consitution and our natural Rights will be categorized as terrorists and will be rounded up by even some of the LEO's on this site. The real killer of this country, which will bring it down to it's knees, lives here and controls it today. And it has a far more sophisticated intellegence than you give it credit for.

Third, all gun owners do is argue. Crap, just getting a get together shoot is a major undertaking here. Getting bands of patriots together working for one cause is probably not going to happen. Face it, most Americans are too busy with their jobs and trying to get the money to pay for that next six pack, to worry about what's going on in this country. People get pissed, but hardly do anything about it. Me? I decided to have my own personal rally. I went down to my US Senators office...personally...to hand them facts on illegals and how they are destroying our country. IN PERSON. Phone calls don't do jack. Our legislators have recognized this...illegals have rallies...American's just piss and moan...and then don't do anything about it. So who's going to probably win? The illegals.

Man, I am just as pissed about all of this as you are, but if we are to live in a country of laws and people are suppose to follow them...then "us" law abiding citizens will always get screwed over. Plain and simple. I don't feel like going to jail at this time, nor do I want to in the future. But if SHTF or EOTWAWKI, then like you said, it's every man for himself and his family. Until then, if politicians don't feel the sting of their votes and legislation, then they won't learn. Period.

Until SHTF or otherwise, training and organization is for fun and is really a pipe dream. What we need is those underground SF guys (if they actually exist) to start feeding the hogs. Then the politicians will take notice. Until that time, you might as well realize we are going to be screwed. Because ALL politicians are LIARS and THIEVES. Period.



Sounds like 'Term Limits' by Vince Flynn - anyone read it?
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 5:31:47 PM EDT
How many people are actually LEFT in Mexico ???

As many of them that have crossed into the US, you'd think that whole country would be a ghost town by now.

Maybe we should all just waltz right into Mexico and start our own damned country from scratch...
There's probably fewer Mexicans in Mexico than what's in the US.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 5:33:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dragracer_Art:
How many people are actually LEFT in Mexico ???

As many of them that have crossed into the US, you'd think that whole country would be a ghost town by now.

Maybe we should all just waltz right into Mexico and start our own damned country from scratch...
There's probably fewer Mexicans in Mexico than what's in the US.

10% have made it across the boarder to date.
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