Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 4/11/2006 12:42:13 PM EDT
Lets say a person failed a drug test in the reserves would they notify his chain of command in federal law enforcement that he is a user.

or will a shitbag continue to carry his badge. Would it be out of line for someone in his military chain of command talk to his higher ups.

In any other career it wouldn't be a issue but this is LE work here...
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:44:52 PM EDT
depends. i just got the drug briefing for AD personnel* and the basic gist is to handle first offenses at the lowest level. that means that the individual is sent to counseling, gets an ass chewing, ect, but no legal action. repeat offenses obviously increase the punishment.

*yes, i know i'm not active duty, but as part of the "prep for AD" curriculum, i get all the mandatory briefings (suicide awareness, sexual assault, drugs, LOAC, UCMJ, ect)
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:51:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 12:58:55 PM EDT by Chairborne]

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:
depends. i just got the drug briefing for AD personnel* and the basic gist is to handle first offenses at the lowest level. that means that the individual is sent to counseling, gets an ass chewing, ect, but no legal action. repeat offenses obviously increase the punishment.





Pop positive in the USAF and your ass will be out so fast your head will spin. There is no "ass chewing" you will be straight to the ADC to have your rights read. I've seen plenty of idiot pot smokers and meth heads kicked to the curb. There is NO second chance in the AF, the Army, well, I know they give one sometimes.


ETA: To answer the original poster's question. I doubt the chain of command would routinely release that information (privacy act and all) to an employer. If the person in question receives a less than honorable discharge though, the employer might want to know why.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:53:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:57:47 PM EDT
If he failed a test, fuck him. He's nothing but a stat for someone else. If the military doesn't notify his chain, you should. That's what OIG is for. I don't want to be anywhere near someone doing that.

Steve
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 1:04:03 PM EDT
So what your saying is that this guy is a Fed, and in the Reserves, and is doing Illegal drugs?

I would hope that the dipshits CO would report him. If he is an NCO he needs to be reduced and kicked out, and that will have repercussions on his Security clearance and all the assorted and sundry stuff associated with it.

Link Posted: 4/11/2006 1:28:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PSYWAR1-0:
So what your saying is that this guy is a Fed, and in the Reserves, and is doing Illegal drugs?





Pretty fucking mindblowing huh?
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 1:33:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 1:39:00 PM EDT by dugedug]

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:
depends. i just got the drug briefing for AD personnel* and the basic gist is to handle first offenses at the lowest level. that means that the individual is sent to counseling, gets an ass chewing, ect, but no legal action. repeat offenses obviously increase the punishment.


*yes, i know i'm not active duty, but as part of the "prep for AD" curriculum, i get all the mandatory briefings (suicide awareness, sexual assault, drugs, LOAC, UCMJ, ect)



What you get is an abreviated, dumbed down, not all inclusive version not meant to scare. What you describe is if someone is hitting the boose to much(without a dui...) and it is starting to cause a noticeable effect on their work performance in the shop/area.


My shop super tested positive for weed a few months before I got out. ~18 years in. He was a great guy. His daughters are the ones that smoked. He still got busted down to staff from master and booted.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 2:36:55 PM EDT
anyone else?
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 2:42:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
Lets say a person failed a drug test in the reserves would they notify his chain of command in federal law enforcement that he is a user.

or will a shitbag continue to carry his badge. Would it be out of line for someone in his military chain of command talk to his higher ups.

In any other career it wouldn't be a issue but this is LE work here...



Depends on the unit...

For AD, I've seen a private fail a drug test in BCT & graduate with nothing more than a company grade Article 15

I've also seen another private get sent to jail for the first offense (different unit)....

Like pretty much everything but major felonies in the military, it depends on your CO's attitude towards the offense...
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 2:45:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
Lets say a person failed a drug test in the reserves would they notify his chain of command in federal law enforcement that he is a user.

or will a shitbag continue to carry his badge. Would it be out of line for someone in his military chain of command talk to his higher ups.

In any other career it wouldn't be a issue but this is LE work here...



Depends on the unit...


Like pretty much everything but major felonies in the military, it depends on your CO's attitude towards the offense...



CO likes the guy and is fighting to keep him in, I think a person in his line of work shouldn't be high period.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 2:45:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1911greg:

Originally Posted By PSYWAR1-0:
So what your saying is that this guy is a Fed, and in the Reserves, and is doing Illegal drugs?





Pretty fucking mindblowing huh?


How do we know he didnt take scrip meds (legally) and fail the test. Nowadays common meds will pop hot on UA's.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 2:50:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1911greg:

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
Lets say a person failed a drug test in the reserves would they notify his chain of command in federal law enforcement that he is a user.

or will a shitbag continue to carry his badge. Would it be out of line for someone in his military chain of command talk to his higher ups.

In any other career it wouldn't be a issue but this is LE work here...



Depends on the unit...


Like pretty much everything but major felonies in the military, it depends on your CO's attitude towards the offense...



CO likes the guy and is fighting to keep him in, I think a person in his line of work shouldn't be high period.



Maybe they get high together? Anybody in a LE capacity doesn't need to be high. It just leads to worse situations.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 2:52:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:

Originally Posted By 1911greg:

Originally Posted By PSYWAR1-0:
So what your saying is that this guy is a Fed, and in the Reserves, and is doing Illegal drugs?





Pretty fucking mindblowing huh?


How do we know he didnt take scrip meds (legally) and fail the test. Nowadays common meds will pop hot on UA's.



Thats a good point, test said it was coke though any chance it was a prescribed drug?
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 2:55:41 PM EDT


I had a room dog get booted because he drank too much.



I haven't heard that term since I got out in 92. Thanks for the green flashback.



Now back to your regular programming.....
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 2:57:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 3:00:35 PM EDT by drjarhead]

Originally Posted By 1911greg:

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:

Originally Posted By 1911greg:

Originally Posted By PSYWAR1-0:
So what your saying is that this guy is a Fed, and in the Reserves, and is doing Illegal drugs?





Pretty fucking mindblowing huh?


How do we know he didnt take scrip meds (legally) and fail the test. Nowadays common meds will pop hot on UA's.



Thats a good point, test said it was coke though any chance it was a prescribed drug?



No

ETA:
Some docs, esp ENTs do very occassionally use pharm cocaine for hemostasis in procedures, nosebleeds, etc. Unlikely though, rarely used, when used is in very small amounts and there would be an easily verifiable record of that.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 2:59:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1911greg:

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:

Originally Posted By 1911greg:

Originally Posted By PSYWAR1-0:
So what your saying is that this guy is a Fed, and in the Reserves, and is doing Illegal drugs?





Pretty fucking mindblowing huh?


How do we know he didnt take scrip meds (legally) and fail the test. Nowadays common meds will pop hot on UA's.



Thats a good point, test said it was coke though any chance it was a prescribed drug?


Uhh, in that case it's not likely....
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:02:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dugedug:

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:
depends. i just got the drug briefing for AD personnel* and the basic gist is to handle first offenses at the lowest level. that means that the individual is sent to counseling, gets an ass chewing, ect, but no legal action. repeat offenses obviously increase the punishment.


*yes, i know i'm not active duty, but as part of the "prep for AD" curriculum, i get all the mandatory briefings (suicide awareness, sexual assault, drugs, LOAC, UCMJ, ect)



What you get is an abreviated, dumbed down, not all inclusive version not meant to scare. What you describe is if someone is hitting the boose to much(without a dui...) and it is starting to cause a noticeable effect on their work performance in the shop/area.


My shop super tested positive for weed a few months before I got out. ~18 years in. He was a great guy. His daughters are the ones that smoked. He still got busted down to staff from master and booted.



Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:03:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TxLawDog:

I had a room dog get booted because he drank too much.



I haven't heard that term since I got out in 92. Thanks for the green flashback.



Now back to your regular programming.....



I thought my buddy and I started that back in '78.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:04:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By 1911greg:

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:

Originally Posted By 1911greg:

Originally Posted By PSYWAR1-0:
So what your saying is that this guy is a Fed, and in the Reserves, and is doing Illegal drugs?





Pretty fucking mindblowing huh?


How do we know he didnt take scrip meds (legally) and fail the test. Nowadays common meds will pop hot on UA's.



Thats a good point, test said it was coke though any chance it was a prescribed drug?



No

ETA:
Some docs, esp ENTs do very occassionally use pharm cocaine for hemostasis in procedures, nosebleeds, etc. Unlikely though, rarely used, when used is in very small amounts and there would be an easily verifiable record of that.



How about Codine? I have some liquid stuff I got after surgury and the amount I was supposed to take was like a teaspoon full. Took one teaspoon of it and never touched the crap again.
I guess almost 40oz worth is still sitting in the cabinet.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:05:39 PM EDT
whats a room dog?
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:10:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:13:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:14:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 3:14:48 PM EDT by STG77]
I know of only one guy who didn't get the boot after popping positive. He squared himself away after the incident, got a couple of meritorious promotions, even extended for a deployment. I don't know if they let him reenlist for another four or not.

Everyone else (probably 50+ in my unit) got the boot, some faster than others.

This was 2001-2005.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:14:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:

Originally Posted By 1911greg:

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:

Originally Posted By 1911greg:

Originally Posted By PSYWAR1-0:
So what your saying is that this guy is a Fed, and in the Reserves, and is doing Illegal drugs?



Pretty fucking mindblowing huh?


How do we know he didnt take scrip meds (legally) and fail the test. Nowadays common meds will pop hot on UA's.



Thats a good point, test said it was coke though any chance it was a prescribed drug?


Uhh, in that case it's not likely....



Doesn't coke wash out of your system in THREE DAYS?
If he can't quit long enough to pass a test he doesn't need to have a badge, he should be in pro sports
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:18:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:59:22 PM EDT
well unless he gets the boot he is probably going to stay a Fed.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 4:39:23 PM EDT
Depends on service and circumstance .
For instance circa 6 years ago AD USCG testifying to LSD use while active wouldn't rate a slap on the wrist even up here .
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 4:47:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 4:49:35 PM EDT by deadcat]
Come up hot on a UA for the Army and it will show up in your civilian record if someone pulls your record.

Also, you get a field grade Article 15 with the possibility or a Chapter 14-12c(seperation for major offense) depending on your chain of command.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 4:53:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dugedug:

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:
depends. i just got the drug briefing for AD personnel* and the basic gist is to handle first offenses at the lowest level. that means that the individual is sent to counseling, gets an ass chewing, ect, but no legal action. repeat offenses obviously increase the punishment.


*yes, i know i'm not active duty, but as part of the "prep for AD" curriculum, i get all the mandatory briefings (suicide awareness, sexual assault, drugs, LOAC, UCMJ, ect)



What you get is an abreviated, dumbed down, not all inclusive version not meant to scare. What you describe is if someone is hitting the boose to much(without a dui...) and it is starting to cause a noticeable effect on their work performance in the shop/area.


My shop super tested positive for weed a few months before I got out. ~18 years in. He was a great guy. His daughters are the ones that smoked. He still got busted down to staff from master and booted.



Come on........ Second-hand pot smoke ??? I'd be hard pressed to believe that one. He gt caught, plain and simple, methinks.


Link Posted: 4/11/2006 4:54:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By dugedug:

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:
depends. i just got the drug briefing for AD personnel* and the basic gist is to handle first offenses at the lowest level. that means that the individual is sent to counseling, gets an ass chewing, ect, but no legal action. repeat offenses obviously increase the punishment.


*yes, i know i'm not active duty, but as part of the "prep for AD" curriculum, i get all the mandatory briefings (suicide awareness, sexual assault, drugs, LOAC, UCMJ, ect)



What you get is an abreviated, dumbed down, not all inclusive version not meant to scare. What you describe is if someone is hitting the boose to much(without a dui...) and it is starting to cause a noticeable effect on their work performance in the shop/area.


My shop super tested positive for weed a few months before I got out. ~18 years in. He was a great guy. His daughters are the ones that smoked. He still got busted down to staff from master and booted.






What he said.

Current technology for drug screens is too good. There are two "usual" excuses that actually had a small amount of merit:

1. "I ate a bun with poppy seeds" - when coming up positive for opiates
2. "I was at a party and the room was full of pot smoke, but I didn't actually use" - when coming up positive for weed.

For weed and opiates, the level you have to hit to be considered positive under federal law is very high, high enough to rule out the above excuses. So if you pop positive, there is no doubt you actually used the indicated substances.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 4:54:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 5:00:14 PM EDT by gaspain]
I was in the Navy(as of a week ago, honorable thank you ) and we had(have) a zero tollerance rule. You pop, you are gone and with a dishonorable discharge, do not pass go....etc.

The fact of the urinalysis data is that it is confidential. So, no. The department he works at will never hear about it unless someone like his Commanding Officer phones his dept. and informs them.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 6:35:43 PM EDT
Where it may come up and bite him, and it's a round-about route. It gets reported as derogatory information and the Clearance Adjudication Authority (or whatever it's called these days) yanks his clearance. If he is working on some kind of program with the Feds (Customs, Homeland Security, Intel, etc) that requires a clearance and they sent the note to his department. Since Mr Schmuck has lost his clearance, he is no longer eligible to participate in theXXX program. Please re-assign him and assign a replacement." That will definitely get attention, or he may gete assigned to some kind of program and then gets a clearance denied.. You can be pretty damn sure a department that gets told one of their officers is not eligible for a clearnace is going to want to know why.

I can't think of any immediate notification route, unless the testing agency is so pissed at him they pass on the results, although that is probably illegal under CA law.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 6:42:06 PM EDT
Positive on the whiz quiz in my command is a straight up kick out the door. Had a guy that showed up for drill weekendabout 2 years ago, was on the hit list for a piss test. He disappeared for the rest of the weekend, made up some BS story about being sick, etc. Skipper kicked him out of the Navy the next drill weekend.. Mast, admin, out the door..

I would imagine this would fuck up any federal level job one might occupy..
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 6:51:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheKill:
[


Current technology for drug screens is too good. There are two "usual" excuses that actually had a small amount of merit:

1. "I ate a bun with poppy seeds" - when coming up positive for opiates
2. "I was at a party and the room was full of pot smoke, but I didn't actually use" - when coming up positive for weed.

For weed and opiates, the level you have to hit to be considered positive under federal law is very high, high enough to rule out the above excuses. So if you pop positive, there is no doubt you actually used the indicated substances.



Back in the 70s, poppy seeds, quinine water and some other shit would make you test hot. But you had to use a lot of it.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 6:58:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By piccolo:

Originally Posted By TheKill:
[


Current technology for drug screens is too good. There are two "usual" excuses that actually had a small amount of merit:

1. "I ate a bun with poppy seeds" - when coming up positive for opiates
2. "I was at a party and the room was full of pot smoke, but I didn't actually use" - when coming up positive for weed.

For weed and opiates, the level you have to hit to be considered positive under federal law is very high, high enough to rule out the above excuses. So if you pop positive, there is no doubt you actually used the indicated substances.



Back in the 70s, poppy seeds, quinine water and some other shit would make you test hot. But you had to use a lot of it.



this is a urine test, correct? i've read that some of the hair tests are incredibly sensitive and they have to be careful of the cutoff level so the testee doesn't flag positive from secondhand smoke and the like.
Top Top