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Posted: 4/11/2006 11:55:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 1:01:56 PM EDT by bastiat]
And it's illustrated here just as well as it is on democratic underground.

We've turned into a nation of pathetic, petty, wimps who want the government to step into private, voluntary relationships because somewhere, somehow, it "just isn't fair".

Your large employer doesn't pay you enough, doesn't respect you, wants you do work harder? Fine, form a union. But that's not good enough. You need the government to FORCE the company to deal with the union, instead of giving the owner(s) of that company the FREEDOM to say "no, I don't want to deal with a union."

You don't like cigarette smoke but you want to go to a bar? Well, lobby your local government to strip the business owner of the right to choose whether or not they want to allow smoking! IT'S YOUR MOTHERFUCKING RIGHT!!! WHO CARES WHO PAYS THE MORTGAGE, THE TAXES, THE EMPLOYEES AND ALL THE OTHER BILLS!!! YOU DON'T LIKE SMOKE!!! SCREW THE BUSINESS OWNER!!!

There are countless examples out in the world and right here on this board. Don't like how you're being treated in a voluntary relationship with any other party? Hell, don't exercise your right to walk out and find greener pastures. Don't make sacrifices in order to get what you want. That's not the American way anymore. The American way is to get enough people or money to influence politicians to FORCE the other guy to do things the way you want! And if they don't do it your way, they should be fined and thrown in jail! Why should you have to work or suffer when you can make the other guy suffer at the point of a government gun???

Hooray for freedom!!! Well, not the other guy's freedom, but my freedom! Screw the other guy if he's doing something I don't like!!!

We're fucked, and we're the ones causing it. But most people will never see it - just complain about the loss of freedom, then lobby for someone else to lose theirs.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 11:57:35 AM EDT
Well. Damn.


I just really can't add anything to that at all.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 11:58:24 AM EDT
Who pissed in your cornflakes this morning?
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:00:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 12:03:40 PM EDT by gaspain]
Nobody in the world is truely free. Can you drive 150 mph down the center of town and not get hog tied? No you cant. You are only as free as the society that you belong to allows. Your definition of freedom is ultimatley just a huge version of selfishness. As long as you live with people nearby then you have to respect them too and their safety.


edit: After reading your post a few times to again. I retract the above. You are not selfish.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:00:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MagKnightX:
Who pissed in your cornflakes this morning?



Is something I said not true?
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:00:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bastiat:
We're fucked.............



Yes we are.......................and when it falls apart I'm going to laugh at the idiots who say "What happened? What caused this?".................because they will starve!!!.....and I could care less!
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:01:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bastiat:
And it's illustrated here just as well as it is on democratic underground.

We've turned into a nation of pathetic, petty, wimps who want the government to step into private, voluntary relationships because somewhere, somehow, it "just isn't fair".

Your large employer doesn't pay you enough, doesn't respect you, wants you do work harder? Fine, form a union. But that's not good enough. You need the government to FORCE the company to deal with the union, instead of giving the owner(s) of that company the FREEDOM to say "no, I don't want to deal with a union."

You don't like cigarette smoke but you want to go to a bar? Well, lobby your local government to strip the business owner of the right to choose whether or not they want to allow smoking! IT'S YOUR MOTHERFUCKING RIGHT!!! WHO CARES WHO PAYS THE MORTGAGE, THE TAXES, THE EMPLOYEES AND ALL THE OTHER BILLS!!! YOU DON'T LIKE SMOKE!!! SCREW THE BUSINESS OWNER!!!

There are countless examples out in the world and right here on this board. Don't like how you're being treated in a voluntary relationship with any other party? Hell, don't exercise your right to walk out and find greener pastures. Don't make sacrifices in order to get what you want. That's not the American way anymore. The American way is to get enough people or money to influence politicians to FORCE the other guy to do things the way you want! And if they don't do it your way, they should be fined and thrown in jail! Why should you have to work or suffer when you can make the other guy suffer at the point of a government gun???

Hooray for freedom!!! Well, not the other guy's freedom, but my freedom! Screw the other guy if he's doing something I don't like!!!

We're fucked, and we're the ones causing it. But most people will never see it - just complain about the loss of freedom, then lobby for someone else to lose theirs.



Bravo!! Well said..
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:03:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gaspain:
Nobody in the world is truely free. Can you drive 150 mph down the center of town and not get hog tied? No you cant. You are only as free as the society that you belong to allows. Your definition of freedom is ultimatley just a huge version of selfishness. As long as you live with people nearby then you have to respect them too and their safety.



No, it's not. The road analogy is false, mainly because it is a PUBLIC venue that needs to have a set of rules that everyone follows in order for it to work efficiently.

A better analogy would be to support my case, where I own 5,000 acres and set up a race track where people can drive 150mph if they choose. But some people are scared of going that fast but they still want to be on the track,so they lobby the government to force me to lower the max speed to 50 mph so the people who are afraid to go 150 can still go on MY track.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:04:13 PM EDT
I think this quote from Thomas Jefferson sums of your article.
"The majority, oppressing an individual, is guilty of a crime, abuses its strength, and by acting on the law of the strongest breaks up the foundations of society."
-- Thomas Jefferson
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:04:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By gaspain:
Nobody in the world is truely free. Can you drive 150 mph down the center of town and not get hog tied? No you cant. You are only as free as the society that you belong to allows. Your definition of freedom is ultimatley just a huge version of selfishness. As long as you live with people nearby then you have to respect them too and their safety.



No, it's not. The road analogy is false, mainly because it is a PUBLIC venue that needs to have a set of rules that everyone follows in order for it to work efficiently.

A better analogy would be to support my case, where I own 5,000 acres and set up a race track where people can drive 150mph if they choose. But some people are scared of going that fast but they still want to be on the track,so they lobby the government to force me to lower the max speed to 50 mph so the people who are afraid to go 150 can still go on MY track.



Yes, agreed. How do we fix this?
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:04:39 PM EDT
FUCK-N-A............
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:05:44 PM EDT
That is what we all have become, all BS aside !
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:07:10 PM EDT
Also, Your "race track" really isnt yours. Because the .gov still owns the land that it is on. And they let you stay there by paying taxes on it. Think not? then dont pay your property taxes and see how long it takes for them to take their land back.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:09:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By copenhagen:
I think this quote from Thomas Jefferson sums of your article.
"The majority, oppressing an individual, is guilty of a crime, abuses its strength, and by acting on the law of the strongest breaks up the foundations of society."
-- Thomas Jefferson



damn I love that guy. I wish we had a candidate that could speak like that today.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:12:04 PM EDT
Nice rant. You hit it square on the head.


Sig line material right there.

Hooray for freedom!!! Well, not the other guy's freedom, but my freedom! Screw the other guy if he's doing something I don't like!!!
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:12:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gaspain:

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By gaspain:
Nobody in the world is truely free. Can you drive 150 mph down the center of town and not get hog tied? No you cant. You are only as free as the society that you belong to allows. Your definition of freedom is ultimatley just a huge version of selfishness. As long as you live with people nearby then you have to respect them too and their safety.



No, it's not. The road analogy is false, mainly because it is a PUBLIC venue that needs to have a set of rules that everyone follows in order for it to work efficiently.

A better analogy would be to support my case, where I own 5,000 acres and set up a race track where people can drive 150mph if they choose. But some people are scared of going that fast but they still want to be on the track,so they lobby the government to force me to lower the max speed to 50 mph so the people who are afraid to go 150 can still go on MY track.



Yes, agreed. How do we fix this?



Honestly, I don't think it really can be fixed at this point. The country will keep abriging freedoms and punishing producers because it buys votes. It would be next to impossible, because you would need a coordinated effort to do several things:

1. Get the rinos out of the republican party - stop enacting the liberal agenda from our own side
2. End the government monopoly on education / indoctrination - stop raising kids that believe this is how america is supposed to be
3. Gain control of media outlets- you control the medium, you control the message. That means conservative investors need to invest in the new media, the old media, television and movie productions, and music. First stop the liberal pandering from the media, and put forward people like John Stossel who tell the truth about things.
4. Once you have those things in place, you can build on the red-state base to take solid control of both houses of congress and the presidency, and the supreme court. Then you actively work to purge statist rules and return to a true states right / original intent model of government.

That's the only way I see things getting any better. Without a plan, we're going to just drift down the river towards full blown socialism and statism.

Personally, I'd like to try plan A, and have a plan B that includes my own private island where I can watch it all go to hell in a handbasket if plan A doesn't work.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:14:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gaspain:
Also, Your "race track" really isnt yours. Because the .gov still owns the land that it is on. And they let you stay there by paying taxes on it. Think not? then dont pay your property taxes and see how long it takes for them to take their land back.



I know, that's part of the problem. The perception that everything is in the purview of government, because it touches it somehow. Everything from property taxes to 'gun free school zones' because the government funds school lunch programs.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:14:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 12:15:11 PM EDT by The_Macallan]

Don't let it be forgot,
That once there was a spot,
For one brief shining moment,
That was known as Camelot.


Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:19:03 PM EDT
Ah but there's the Irish wit of beating them at their own game.... to wit, we've just been taught that if any group of 12 million do something that is considered 'illegal' but otherwise 'don't hurt anyone' the politicians will HAVE TO CAVE.

So should 12 million of us start to illegally import MACHINE GUNS - but not use them of course - wouldn't the BATF have to ignore it?

"Today we spend 6 hours loading magazines...Tomorrow we vote!"

(of course, the moment any white guy tried to play the same game any minority does, he'd be hung, drawn and quartered, have Hollywood make a nasty movie about him and get featured in children's history books as "that kook who broke the law") but let any minority break the law and the result is lionization, hero status, kudos from the pop culture and a blind eye from 'the man'.

So maybe it really does come down to sheer numbers... Maybe we really will have to mobilize 250,000 Minute men to the borders and begin buying up land down there to construct 'private' fences and walls.

Maybe we'll have to mobilize ASAP to insist that, fine, you give amnesty to 12 million illegals, you'd better damn well insist that voters present ironclad proof of citizenship at this November's election... biometrics and all.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:19:23 PM EDT
My freedom is more important than your good idea.

But of course, it isn't true and they all want their welfare mommy

It's over, we lost
excellent rant.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:20:28 PM EDT
Yes. Very true. I hope all the anti-drug people can get the clue too.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:29:45 PM EDT
right on, tag
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:43:49 PM EDT
You must fight to be free, if you are not activiely fighting to be free then by your own complicity you are being enslaved by someone that is willing to fight.

Even many of the members of this board have become effeminate and unwilling to fight the only enemy that has the power to oppress them, the corrupt goverment.

Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:49:35 PM EDT
What channel was the football game on tonight?
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:58:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dance:
What channel was the football game on tonight?



Bread and circuses are where it's at!

"Well, I can't build a shed on my own property because the government declared it a federal wetlands, even though it only is wet when it floods once every 10 years. Oooh, a new episode of American Idol is on tonight! Cool!"
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 2:03:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 2:03:58 PM EDT by STRATIOTES]
What gets described in these threads everytime they appear is that people prefer comfort to war, as long as it is possible to be more comfortable ignoring inconvenience, people will continue to do so.

When war is less painful than ignorance then the people will join the fight.

Afflict the comfortable must be the call to action.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 2:15:36 PM EDT
Get with the times…


This country went down the crapper right after they outlawed the duel…
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 2:23:28 PM EDT
It is a little inflammatory to say that we deserve it. There are plenty of Americans who don't deserve to be taken advantage of.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 2:32:01 PM EDT
u need to get laid or try mastrubating more often
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 2:33:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Silesius:
It is a little inflammatory to say that we deserve it. There are plenty of Americans who don't deserve to be taken advantage of.



Maybe plenty by number, but not by percentage.

Link Posted: 4/11/2006 2:33:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MagKnightX:
Who pissed in your cornflakes this morning?



Hilary Clinton, and she pisses standing up!
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 2:33:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Troll:
u need to get laid or try mastrubating more often



Thanks for your enlightening comments. Now hurry along, american idol is on tonight. I know you have a crush on simon.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 2:34:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 2:37:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them - Thomas Jefferson

(from my desktop background at work)



That lasted for about 125 years or so...
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 2:45:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bastiat:

1. Get the rinos out of the republican party - stop enacting the liberal agenda from our own side



RINOs like Bush who hands out billions to forgein countries and flushes hundreds of billions to rebuild the most corrupt sewer of a city in the nation? RINOs like Kay Bailey Hutchinson who wants to solve the illegal immigration problem by making more kinds of immigration legal and loosening restrictions on who can come here legally? Those RINOs?


2. End the government monopoly on education / indoctrination - stop raising kids that believe this is how america is supposed to be


There are no private schools? There are no charter schools? You cannot home school? Ohhh. you want to eliminate public education completely so that only those who can afford to pay tuition at private schools and charter schools can get an education. People who work 2 or 3 minimum wage jobs don't deserve to have their children educated.


3. Gain control of media outlets- you control the medium, you control the message. That means conservative investors need to invest in the new media, the old media, television and movie productions, and music. First stop the liberal pandering from the media, and put forward people like John Stossel who tell the truth about things.


But aren't media outlets, publically traded and privately owned corporations? Aren't they funded by private investors? Isn't freedom of the press constitutionally protected? Ohhhh, you only believe in freedom of the press or freedom of corporations who are doing or saying things that you agree with. If you don't like the message, then by all means abridge their freedoms.


4. Once you have those things in place, you can build on the red-state base to take solid control of both houses of congress and the presidency, and the supreme court. Then you actively work to purge statist rules and return to a true states right / original intent model of government.


Forgive me, but don't the "Red States" currently controll both houses of congress and the presidency, and hasn't Bush appointed hundreds of conservatives to the Federal Courts, including 2 to the Supreme Court? And what have the Republicans in congress and the President done with their power? Interfered in the State of Florida's affairs over Terri Schiavo, mandated national standards for state issued ID, further federalized the National Guard and consolidated the Federal Law enforcement system into a more powerful arm of the Executive Branch of government. That'll do alot for state's rights.

As you usual, you have are all upset and you have a set of very poorly, uninformed demands.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:00:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By bastiat:

1. Get the rinos out of the republican party - stop enacting the liberal agenda from our own side



RINOs like Bush who hands out billions to forgein countries and flushes hundreds of billions to rebuild the most corrupt sewer of a city in the nation? RINOs like Kay Bailey Hutchinson who wants to solve the illegal immigration problem by making more kinds of immigration legal and loosening restrictions on who can come here legally? Those RINOs?



Yep, pretty much.




2. End the government monopoly on education / indoctrination - stop raising kids that believe this is how america is supposed to be


There are no private schools? There are no charter schools? You cannot home school? Ohhh. you want to eliminate public education completely so that only those who can afford to pay tuition at private schools and charter schools can get an education. People who work 2 or 3 minimum wage jobs don't deserve to have their children educated.



And people are taxed and have to pay twice for education - thru their taxes and then when they pay tuition.

If there's going to be public funded education, it shouldn't be run by the government. There should be VOUCHERS where the parents can decide which school to send their kids to. In the current system, most people are screwed just like you mentioned. You actually made my argument for me. Thanks.





3. Gain control of media outlets- you control the medium, you control the message. That means conservative investors need to invest in the new media, the old media, television and movie productions, and music. First stop the liberal pandering from the media, and put forward people like John Stossel who tell the truth about things.


But aren't media outlets, publically traded and privately owned corporations? Aren't they funded by private investors? Isn't freedom of the press constitutionally protected? Ohhhh, you only believe in freedom of the press or freedom of corporations who are doing or saying things that you agree with. If you don't like the message, then by all means abridge their freedoms.



Once again, you made my point. Conservatives need to make an actual effort to use the medium and control the message. Rupert murdoch is the only one who comes close in a news outlet. The rest will invest and just follow the formula for what has worked in the past. Most of them don't really care about what is said, just ROI. Instead they let the liberals run the show and advance their own liberal agendas, and fail to use the same power they have to advance a conservative agenda.



4. Once you have those things in place, you can build on the red-state base to take solid control of both houses of congress and the presidency, and the supreme court. Then you actively work to purge statist rules and return to a true states right / original intent model of government.


Forgive me, but don't the "Red States" currently controll both houses of congress and the presidency, and hasn't Bush appointed hundreds of conservatives to the Federal Courts, including 2 to the Supreme Court? And what have the Republicans in congress and the President done with their power? Interfered in the State of Florida's affairs over Terri Schiavo, mandated national standards for state issued ID, further federalized the National Guard and consolidated the Federal Law enforcement system into a more powerful arm of the Executive Branch of government. That'll do alot for state's rights.



And it goes back to getting the rinos (And I include statists in the rino column) out of the republican party, and turning it back into a true limited government party.



As you usual, you have are all upset and you have a set of very poorly, uninformed demands.



As usual, you've made a post of silly points either without thinking through what you've written, or reading my original post the way YOU wanted it to be read, instead of what I actually wrote, just so you can be argumentative.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:06:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:


There are no private schools? There are no charter schools? You cannot home school? Ohhh. you want to eliminate public education completely so that only those who can afford to pay tuition at private schools and charter schools can get an education. People who work 2 or 3 minimum wage jobs don't deserve to have their children educated. .



No they are not my children and I have no financial obligation to fund their education, I do choose of my own volition to donate my time to teach but it never be government enforced upon me against my will.

My only demand would be the enforcement of the first 10 bill of rights!

Reforming the FCC for unlicensed political speech on certain bands should be a high priority though, the government selectivley deciding on who gets a license and who does not is a violation of the first amendment.

Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:14:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 3:25:48 PM EDT by pv74]
I agree, this country is going to hell much faster than I thought it was...

I cannot even watch the news without getting upset..I have to turn it off...

Liberal communist pussies, enviro weenies, RINOs, asshat lawyers, fat lazy people who think they are entitled to everything, welfare shwoogies, and illegal aliens are destroying this country...




Sorry, thats how I really feel


Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:36:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
Don't let it be forgot,
That once there was a spot,
For one brief shining moment,
That was known as Camelot.





Perfect post........

because freedom is relative and a free society is like Camlot....fictional.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:40:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 4:06:11 PM EDT by StonerStudent]

Originally Posted By pv74:
I agree, this country is going to hell much faster than I thought it was...

I cannot even watch the news without getting upset..I have to turn it off...

Liberal communist pussies, enviro weenies, RINOs, asshat lawyers, fat lazy people who think they are entitled to everything, welfare shwoogies, and illegal aliens are destroying this country...




Sorry, thats how I really feel




and over at DU they are posting the same thing....well except for the last part anyway.


so whose really winning anyway?....the politicians.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:58:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By gaspain:
Nobody in the world is truely free. Can you drive 150 mph down the center of town and not get hog tied? No you cant. You are only as free as the society that you belong to allows. Your definition of freedom is ultimatley just a huge version of selfishness. As long as you live with people nearby then you have to respect them too and their safety.



No, it's not. The road analogy is false, mainly because it is a PUBLIC venue that needs to have a set of rules that everyone follows in order for it to work efficiently.

A better analogy would be to support my case, where I own 5,000 acres and set up a race track where people can drive 150mph if they choose. But some people are scared of going that fast but they still want to be on the track,so they lobby the government to force me to lower the max speed to 50 mph so the people who are afraid to go 150 can still go on MY track.



Yeah but your little arguement cuts both ways don't it? You only get pissed when people step on what you perceive as YOUR rights but what about when the Gov't imposes your view of things on other people? You probably dont have any problem when that happens now do you?
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:59:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By t-stox:

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By gaspain:
Nobody in the world is truely free. Can you drive 150 mph down the center of town and not get hog tied? No you cant. You are only as free as the society that you belong to allows. Your definition of freedom is ultimatley just a huge version of selfishness. As long as you live with people nearby then you have to respect them too and their safety.



No, it's not. The road analogy is false, mainly because it is a PUBLIC venue that needs to have a set of rules that everyone follows in order for it to work efficiently.

A better analogy would be to support my case, where I own 5,000 acres and set up a race track where people can drive 150mph if they choose. But some people are scared of going that fast but they still want to be on the track,so they lobby the government to force me to lower the max speed to 50 mph so the people who are afraid to go 150 can still go on MY track.



Yeah but your little arguement cuts both ways don't it? You only get pissed when people step on what you perceive as YOUR rights but what about when the Gov't imposes your view of things on other people? You probably dont have any problem when that happens now do you?



wow, great post troll boy. Got any examples???
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