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Posted: 4/11/2006 8:04:39 AM EDT
With all of the threads about illegals lately, I thought I'd throw up a poll to satisfy my curiosity about WHY everyone hates them so much.

Depending on the thread topic and author, you get a wide variety of responses about what exactly is so bad about these people.

Since this is my poll, I'll give my position:

Illegal aliens are only a bad thing so long as we are a socialist nation. Since we are socialist, it's a very very big problem, and they are placing many economic and social strains on our nation. The fact that we're so PC and accomodating leads to the fact that they won't learn English because they don't have to. If there weren't any more government benefits and you had to be a citizen to get a DL, I doubt the concept of immigration would even be on the list of things to worry about.

JMHO, but I want to see what the rest of you think.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:10:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 8:10:23 AM EDT by NAM]
they are ILLEGAL aliens.

they are not here LEGALLY.

That's my primary problem with em.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:13:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 8:13:35 AM EDT by readytorock556]
Because I hate tacos and all they stand for!
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:15:44 AM EDT
Their furniture falls out of their trucks on the freeway. That's dangerous.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:17:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NAM:
they are ILLEGAL aliens.

they are not here LEGALLY.

That's my primary problem with em.



yup
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:19:29 AM EDT
First of all because they're illegal.

Second would be all of the above on the poll except speaking english. America has no declared national language unlike most other countries so I really can't be upset about that.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:20:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NAM:
they are ILLEGAL aliens.

they are not here LEGALLY.

That's my primary problem with em.



+1
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:24:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NAM:
they are ILLEGAL aliens.

they are not here LEGALLY.

That's my primary problem with em.



yep.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:24:38 AM EDT
Also there is a huge constitutional problem with the amnesty issue. I thought one of our primary priciples in the country was "all men are created equal" and from that principle flows the idea of equal enforcement of the law for everyone. So what about all the people who want to emigrate legally, are already here and jump through hoops every year to stay and so on? Do they get amnesty too? It's just manifestly unfair to the folks who are trying to go about citizenship the right way.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:26:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NAM:
they are ILLEGAL aliens.

they are not here LEGALLY.

That's my primary problem with em.



+1

And the statement "Illegal aliens are only a bad thing so long as we are a socialist nation." is flat out wrong. Countless murders, robberires, rapes, drunk driving fatalities, etc, have resulted from ilegal aliens. That's because when they come here ILLEGALLY, there is no screening and enforcement mechanism - meaning bad apples can come through just as easily as the good apples. Which is why having ILLEGAL aliens is wrong to its very core. It is not dependant on being a 'socialist nation'.

Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:31:26 AM EDT
They will steal just about anything that isn't nailed down.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:32:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NAM:
they are ILLEGAL aliens.

they are not here LEGALLY.

That's my primary problem with em.



THIS should be a POLL CHOICE.....

If you are willing to come into a country illegally, how many of our other laws are you gonna break????
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:32:54 AM EDT
What's wrong? Nothing. Yesterday they marched here demanding the same "rights" as citizens. (Voting to come).

OK. I want to give them the same rights I enjoy. If I break several Federal laws I have to right to X amount of time in the slammer. Only fair they should enjoy the same or I get to choose which laws I can ignore.

Since I took biology in school and not chemistry, my own little meth lab is out. I'd settle for some automatic weapons. Hell, even the Iranians can tote RPGs.

Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:34:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NAM:
they are ILLEGAL aliens.

they are not here LEGALLY.

That's my primary problem with em.


spot on Brother! My wife and her family came here legally, absolutely love the USA and support it to the fullest (My wife is former USAF, where I met her, and her brother is also USAF, I work with him). The inlaws also actively contribute to society, SIL is a straight A student in HS, MIL is a Nurse, and FIL works in maintinence.

There is a set amount of people who can come in from each country, and thats the way it should be. My inlaws waited for 10 years to get their OK.

Illegals of ALL ETHNICITY should be kicked out, no questions. If they are going to try and legalize the mexicans, then they damn well better do the same for every illegal in the country.

my spelling be damned, those are my thoughts!

Crash in Tikrit
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:34:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By readytorock556:
Because I hate tacos and all they stand for!




what about the bald tacos. You don't like them???? I can't get enough bald taco
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:36:28 AM EDT
Because illegal immigration is caused by other countries dumping their unwanted people on the US. These unwanted people are the result of stagnant economic development in foreign lands.

Why should my tax dollars be used to benefit a foreign dictator?
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:39:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jmzd4:

what about the bald tacos. You don't like them???? I can't get enough bald taco



I'm having taco withdrawal... 3 months and no pink taco, no pie, no fur burger... one month to go and I'm outa this hell hole! sucks for the wifey when I get home
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:39:48 AM EDT
Here's something to think about....

The number the media has been throwing around is "11 million" illegal aliens. But how do they know?

Other groups are saying it is probably closer to 20 million.

What is the population of Mexico? Around 100 million?

So that would mean that 1 in 5 Mexicans is now in the U.S. illegally...

Holy, hell. That, my friends, is call AN INVASION.

I have no problem with legal immigrants...they've made this country great.

Illegal aliens are going to destroy this country however.

That is why I dislike what they are doing.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:40:52 AM EDT
OK, my take on the issue.

If they are not here legally, they are being paid under the table cash wages far below what you and I would consider a suitable standard of living. Since they are living in poverty, they attract companies that target extremely low-income brackets. In turn, the neighborhood gets trashed, turns to crap and filled with crime, and you have a town within a town.

Then, the surrounding area says, "Hey! Look at all this business we are missing!" Now, everything is printed in another language, is extremely low quality so they can afford the products, and that in turn attracts even more poverty. Poverty attracts crime.

I have every best wish for a man or woman that won't sit on their lazy ass and is willing to work to try and make a decent living. The problem with illegal immigration, however, is that no matter how much they want to work, they are driving their own wages DOWN with the Home Depot parking lot rent-me-for-a-day laborers. When you drive wages DOWN, you encourage others to do the same, import crime and lower standards of living, and make skilled people settle for lower wages that, invariably, make the corporation more money while the worker gets less for their efforts.

Benefits go away, the job market is now flooded with cheap labor, and the quality people who want to be paid what they're worth and not live around crime find other areas to market their skills. Hence, you now have an assimilation of the very problems they ran to America to escape.

In essence, it is a transference of problems from one location to the next. There is no solution, because no one collective group looked at the big picture and proferred a solution. It is a band-aid on a wound that needs many stiches.

Now, if people were not willing to make $4 an hour for menial labor, the market would dry up and employers would increase base pays. They still make a hefty profit, but the worker increases their take to have money to spend on their off time. The economy prospers. The neighborhoods are cleaner, better, and crime finds other places to dig their fangs.

In the end, giving INTO a society prospers everyone, while taking advantage of a society is only a short-term fix to an ever-widening problem.

Come here legally. Work like the rest of us, for a fair wage and putting taxes back into the system. Save some money. Buy a bass boat. Drink beer over a BBQ with friends on the weekend. Doesn't matter to me what color your skin is. And be proud of your heritage.

But be even more proud you are now part of the solution, rather than a part of the problem. That's what I consider a man should do. I require it from everyone.

There's my opinion on the matter.

I have no problem with Latinos. I have a problem with problems that have no long-term solutions.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:47:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NAM:
they are ILLEGAL aliens.

they are not here LEGALLY.

That's my primary problem with em.



+ another.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:50:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NAM:
they are ILLEGAL aliens.

they are not here LEGALLY.

That's my primary problem with em.



+1

I think you're on to something NAM.

Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:59:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By NAM:
they are ILLEGAL aliens.

they are not here LEGALLY.

That's my primary problem with em.



+1

And the statement "Illegal aliens are only a bad thing so long as we are a socialist nation." is flat out wrong. Countless murders, robberires, rapes, drunk driving fatalities, etc, have resulted from ilegal aliens. That's because when they come here ILLEGALLY, there is no screening and enforcement mechanism - meaning bad apples can come through just as easily as the good apples. Which is why having ILLEGAL aliens is wrong to its very core. It is not dependant on being a 'socialist nation'.





We have enough home-grown criminals. We do NOT need to import more criminals. It would be difficult enough to have a child killed by a domestic criminal. Now imagine that criminal came into the US from another country and killed your child. I can only imagine the shitstorm visited upon such a criminal. At that point, the .GOV would be the least of their worries.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:02:37 AM EDT
Where is the all of the above button?
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:02:48 AM EDT
The reason I didn't add "They are here illegally" as a poll choice is because we all agree on that. They are ILLEGAL aliens by definition. My poll is more along the lines of beyond that, what is the primary problem?
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:06:55 AM EDT
I have problems with them using .gov benefits my taxes pay for when they DONT pay taxes, plus they are here ILLEGALLY. It also pisses me off that they dont speak english, declared language or not, if you live in America you should speak English. Keep your native tongue amongst yourselves, if your talkin' to me better do it in english
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:07:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rugerp345:
It would be difficult enough to have a child killed by a domestic criminal. Now imagine that criminal came into the US from another country and killed your child. I can only imagine the shitstorm visited upon such a criminal. At that point, the .GOV would be the least of their worries.



For the record, I hate illegal immigration and feel like they're just as bad as the welfare leeches, whether they're working or not. If they're not paying taxes, they shouldn't be living here.

That being said, if someone kills my child I won't somehow be comforted by the fact that they're an American citizen. That illegal alien is no more or less evil than anyone else who would kill a kid.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:09:32 AM EDT
Because they're not citizens. Becoming a citizen requires that you foreswear allegiance to any other country, and that you adopt the beliefs and language of the US. They're here for a job, for the most part, and the mere fact of holding a job does not mean you are a citizen.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:10:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By verticalgain:
The reason I didn't add "They are here illegally" as a poll choice is because we all agree on that. They are ILLEGAL aliens by definition. My poll is more along the lines of beyond that, what is the primary problem?



The primary problem cannot be defined with a poll consisting of a few options.

It is defined by a compilation of complications that arise when a society degrades morally, financially, and in unity for the "better tomorrow." See my original post to this thread for elaboration on that statement, but the simple answer if that every problem has both a solution and a chance to enlarge. The problem is getting bigger, not smaller, and our socio-economic standards are lowered everday in the name of politics. That is not acceptable.

You cannot heap problems on problems and acheive any satisfactory results.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:11:25 AM EDT
They don't pay taxes that I do.

Otherwise I don't give two mexican jumping beans...they do work that some Americans won't do....
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:11:40 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:14:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By richardh247:
OK, my take on the issue.

If they are not here legally, they are being paid under the table cash wages far below what you and I would consider a suitable standard of living. Since they are living in poverty, they attract companies that target extremely low-income brackets. In turn, the neighborhood gets trashed, turns to crap and filled with crime, and you have a town within a town.



+ alot

Illegal immagration has created an impoverished class with language and culture seperating them. How long before that class revolts. Right now?
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:26:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By verticalgain:

Originally Posted By rugerp345:
It would be difficult enough to have a child killed by a domestic criminal. Now imagine that criminal came into the US from another country and killed your child. I can only imagine the shitstorm visited upon such a criminal. At that point, the .GOV would be the least of their worries.



For the record, I hate illegal immigration and feel like they're just as bad as the welfare leeches, whether they're working or not. If they're not paying taxes, they shouldn't be living here.

That being said, if someone kills my child I won't somehow be comforted by the fact that they're an American citizen. That illegal alien is no more or less evil than anyone else who would kill a kid.



I would not be COMFORTED. Never said it would be BETTER. I was merely pointing out that if my child was killed by an American, I would let the American judicial system give out punishment. But I see no reason to give an illegal alien who is a murderer any benefit of our court system. They ignore our laws when they enter the country illegal. They murder, rape, rob, drive drunk, deal drugs, don't pay taxes, etc. If they kill an American citizen, that citizen's family should be allowed to take retribution. These outlaws should not have the protection of the law. They CHOOSE to live OUTSIDE of the LAW ! That is where they shall stay.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:40:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rugerp345:
I would not be COMFORTED. Never said it would be BETTER. I was merely pointing out that if my child was killed by an American, I would let the American judicial system give out punishment. But I see no reason to give an illegal alien who is a murderer any benefit of our court system. They ignore our laws when they enter the country illegal. They murder, rape, rob, drive drunk, deal drugs, don't pay taxes, etc. If they kill an American citizen, that citizen's family should be allowed to take retribution. These outlaws should not have the protection of the law. They CHOOSE to live OUTSIDE of the LAW ! That is where they shall stay.



Thanks for the clarification, I can agree with you on that one.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:45:14 AM EDT
my vote was "other"

as stated by someone else earlier,..they are ILLEGAL aliens, they are not here LEGALLY.



Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:53:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By verticalgain:

Originally Posted By rugerp345:
I would not be COMFORTED. Never said it would be BETTER. I was merely pointing out that if my child was killed by an American, I would let the American judicial system give out punishment. But I see no reason to give an illegal alien who is a murderer any benefit of our court system. They ignore our laws when they enter the country illegal. They murder, rape, rob, drive drunk, deal drugs, don't pay taxes, etc. If they kill an American citizen, that citizen's family should be allowed to take retribution. These outlaws should not have the protection of the law. They CHOOSE to live OUTSIDE of the LAW ! That is where they shall stay.



Thanks for the clarification, I can agree with you on that one.



Sorry about the confusion Vert. Thanks for not flaming me. I hope it never comes to what I have mentioned. But if it ever does, my mind is made up and I can live with my decision. Have a nice day, and go buy some more ammo.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:55:50 AM EDT
they are corrupting what the constitution stands for. they are ignoring the rule of law, taking rights they do not deserve, and bleeding our already strained social system dry.

if it werent for them, we might be better able to help americans who actually need the aid, like disabled veterans or senior citizens
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:57:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NAM:
they are ILLEGAL aliens.

they are not here LEGALLY.

That's my primary problem with em.


+1
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 10:04:08 AM EDT
You should have had all of the above. Shit their rapeing America.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 10:04:52 AM EDT
Their arrogance grates on my nerves, flaunting our laws and demanding all kinds of rights. I wouldn't walk into another country and demand special treatment or expect them to let me break their laws just because I need a job.

They are criminals by definition and they are not loyal to our country or its ideals. They are a dire threat to our way of life. They are the enemy.

Oh yeah, and take a look at all the shit they leave on our southern border. I'm no enviro-freak but that pisses me off. Someone should tell Greenpeace and all those groups about that.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 10:11:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 10:12:49 AM EDT by scrum]
Legal immigration #s are determined partly by what the infrastructure and job situation in the US can reasonably be expected to support. Illegal Immigrants go into the mix and functionally deny or delay law abiders who go through the process to LEGALLY immigrate here. The bottom line is if you are an advocate of ILLEGAL immigrants you are hurting LEGAL immigrants and are choosing the side of CRIMINALS.

It is as simple as that.

Signed,

Scrum the LEGAL immigrant.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 10:19:13 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 10:26:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 10:29:01 AM EDT by The_Macallan]
All of the above and more:

* massive and rapid loss of "American" culture and heritage,
* Balkanization of American society,
* general disregard for the rule of law,
* crushing effect on our education, prison and medical systems,
* falling English literacy rate and dumbing-down of the population,
* siphoning off billions in welfare while many citizens still struggle,
* skyrocketting property crimes,
* direct violent crimes,
* motor-vehicle accidents,
* motor-vehicle thefts,
* higher insurance premiums,
* higher medical premiums,
* more communicable diseases (like drug-resistant TB, AIDS, Hepatitis, influenza, dengue fever, etc.)
* greater drug trafficking and availability,
* depressed wages,
* neighborhood blight...

the list goes on.



Link Posted: 4/11/2006 10:31:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NAM:
they are ILLEGAL aliens.

they are not here LEGALLY.

That's my primary problem with em.



+1 million!!
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 10:41:57 AM EDT
Other

Two problems:

First is that they didn't get here legally like me and my family (I was naturalized as an American citizen when I was seventeen). I'm not a xenophobe, a racist, or anything remotely connected to either, but rewarding illegal behavior with American citizenship should be, ah....illegal.

Two: They're not as interested in becoming Americans and sharing and building our culture as much as they are being foreigners living in America, deriving whatever benfits they can avail themselves of from our country, and promoting the "hyphenated American" mentality that has been so destructive to this country.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 10:52:51 AM EDT
THIS WAS DISCUSSED ON RUSH LAST WEEK, SO I AM NOT TAKING CREDIT, BUT I BELIEVE IT IS VERY WELL REASONED....

We are allowing a corrupt Mexican Government to stay in power because so many of the actual willing-to-work Mexican citizens are coming here, knowing there will be a bettter life, and no repercussions. This is going to allow a corrupt party to win the upcoming election (I don't know who he said they are) but the election is pretty close right now. This group allies with Chavez, and there is a very real chance that they will make a huge problem for us by raising the price (or even denying) oil imported by the US from those two countries.

Link Posted: 4/11/2006 10:56:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Leisure_Shoot:
THIS WAS DISCUSSED ON RUSH LAST WEEK, SO I AM NOT TAKING CREDIT, BUT I BELIEVE IT IS VERY WELL REASONED....

We are allowing a corrupt Mexican Government to stay in power because so many of the actual willing-to-work Mexican citizens are coming here, knowing there will be a bettter life, and no repercussions. This is going to allow a corrupt party to win the upcoming election (I don't know who he said they are) but the election is pretty close right now. This group allies with Chavez, and there is a very real chance that they will make a huge problem for us by raising the price (or even denying) oil imported by the US from those two countries.



When, in the grand history of Mexico, has there ever NOT be a thoroughly corrupt gov't that wasn't openly hostile to the United States of America?


Link Posted: 4/11/2006 11:05:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NAM:
they are ILLEGAL aliens.

they are not here LEGALLY.

That's my primary problem with em.



Make the H2A visa (ag worker) go from 60k a year to what ever number it should be. No citizenship or benefits for these workers. They finish up the contract and go home to Jamacia or Mexico or whereever.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 11:10:01 AM EDT
Hey Vertical,

I support the Minutemen, both financially and in my heart. I'm going out to Arizona next month and plan to sit on the border for a few days. Is anyone giving the Minutemen aid ??? Or sending faxes to their Senators to say how much we Don't want this amnesty crap ?! The MinutemanHQ.com site sent me an email whereby I could support them by sending blanket faxes to 100 senators for $29. I did send the faxes, my other issue is why are these Fat Cats still in Washington if so many of us think they suck in supporting the majority. Also, when was the last time you saw illegals working and reported them, this is my goal for the rest of this year nd beyond. Let's stay united on this cause......We Can Make A Difference !!!!

Jim
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 11:18:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NAM:
they are ILLEGAL aliens.

they are not here LEGALLY.

That's my primary problem with em.



That's my #1 problem and I have more...but if I listed them, I'd get banned.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 11:19:52 AM EDT
They are breaking the law, undermining our society and imposing thier lives and problems upon us.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 11:24:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Leisure_Shoot:
THIS WAS DISCUSSED ON RUSH LAST WEEK, SO I AM NOT TAKING CREDIT, BUT I BELIEVE IT IS VERY WELL REASONED....

We are allowing a corrupt Mexican Government to stay in power because so many of the actual willing-to-work Mexican citizens are coming here, knowing there will be a bettter life, and no repercussions. This is going to allow a corrupt party to win the upcoming election (I don't know who he said they are) but the election is pretty close right now. This group allies with Chavez, and there is a very real chance that they will make a huge problem for us by raising the price (or even denying) oil imported by the US from those two countries.




I was kicked out of my alma mater's team for the Harvard UN for espousing that logic. The same argument goes for most, if not all, supposed refugee immigration where there is no immediate and sure execution on return by the state.

FURTHER, it is ridiculous to call a group of people who comes into the borders with no intention to become part of the nation immigrants - they are simply migrants or non-immigrant visitors. A Nation cannot sustain an endless stream of non-immigrants posing as citizens - It destroys the nation and only leaves a shell state without commonality, and without commonality Rex Lex (the rule of law) is impossible. We are already seeing the destruction of the Republic by those who despise the Constitution. Supported by a growing stream of voting non-immigrants posing as citizens, these enemies of the Republic will succeed.

Noone who has read any history, any political or sociological works, any studies of relative and positive deprivation, any economics, ..., can possibly be sincere that the type of illegal immigration being protested for in these marches is good for America.
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