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Posted: 4/11/2006 6:14:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 6:15:08 AM EDT by captainpooby]
I havent seen the show but this article was in the Trib and I thought you guys might be interested. This guys sounds like another Andy McNabb.


Logan Fitch, Haney's former Delta squadron commander, said Haney's comments and conduct since he left the military more than a decade ago have earned him "persona non grata" status. He is banned from Delta facilities, reunions and commemorative events.

"I don't know of any [ex-Delta troops] who are sympathetic to Haney," said Fitch, who joined Delta shortly after Burruss did.

"I have no problem with him capitalizing on his experience, but he should be factual. I view him as a crass opportunist interested in personal gain," he said.




Delta Force Vets Dismiss Claims Of 'The Unit' Writer
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 6:30:47 AM EDT
I read his book, and actually liked it.. but now it will go in the trash....
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 6:39:22 AM EDT
There are many who feel the same way about Richard Marcinko.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 6:41:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 6:52:02 AM EDT by Hellhound]
Interesting read, I found the part that I put in bold to be very interesting.....


news.tbo.com/news/metro/MGBMS7AKVLE.html

Delta Force Vets Dismiss Claims Of 'The Unit' Writer
Skip directly to the full story.
By RICHARD LARDNER rlardner@tampatrib.com


Eric Haney has made much out of his time as a member of Delta Force, America's clandestine counterterrorism outfit.

Way too much, according to former Delta Force officers and operators, who say Haney has embellished his résumé and fabricated other parts of his military career on his way to becoming an acclaimed author and a key contributor to the CBS television series "The Unit."

Now, as Haney's star rises in Hollywood and throughout the mainstream media, those who served with him say they've had enough. They're going public with withering critiques, describing Haney as a self-serving pretender seeking fame and money.

"It's always disturbing when a former member of the organization does something that lacks integrity," said retired Army Lt. Col. Lewis "Bucky" Burruss, who was assigned to Delta in November 1977 when the organization was formally activated.

Logan Fitch, Haney's former Delta squadron commander, said Haney's comments and conduct since he left the military more than a decade ago have earned him "persona non grata" status. He is banned from Delta facilities, reunions and commemorative events.

"I don't know of any [ex-Delta troops] who are sympathetic to Haney," said Fitch, who joined Delta shortly after Burruss did.

"I have no problem with him capitalizing on his experience, but he should be factual. I view him as a crass opportunist interested in personal gain," he said.

"The Unit," which premiered March 7 and has received solid Nielsen ratings, is based on Haney's autobiography, "Inside Delta Force." The show airs Tuesday evenings, and Haney is the program's supervising producer, technical adviser and co-writer.

Published in May 2002, "Inside Delta Force" advertises Haney as a "founding member" of the organization.

The book is filled with gripping accounts of Delta's brutal physical and psychological training regimen, the tight bonds forged among the troops, and top-secret missions to desolate locations, including the failed 1980 attempt to rescue U.S. hostages in Iran.

One of the most compelling episodes involves a Nicaraguan-born Army Green Beret whom Haney befriended while both were trying out for Delta in the fall of 1978. Five years later, Haney wrote, he would encounter this U.S. soldier-turned-Sandinista commando on a mountaintop in Honduras and kill him with a rifle shot during an intense firefight.

Burruss said he has never read Haney's book and never will. He's certain, though, the episode did not occur.

"It didn't happen. Period," said Burruss, who became Delta's deputy commander in June 1983 and spent nine years with the supersecret organization.

Mel Wick agreed with Burruss. Wick was assigned to Delta in November 1977 and served 16 years with the unit. He spent the last 3 1/2 as Delta's highest-ranking enlisted operator.

"He did not encounter his 'selection course roommate' - or anyone else - in the jungles of Central America and kill him," Wick wrote in a March 8 e-mail to the Fox News Channel's Bill O'Reilly after Haney appeared on "The O'Reilly Factor."

Haney "consistently takes credit for missions he was never on and things he never did in his book and in his public appearances," Wick's message said.

Wick provided the e-mail to The Tampa Tribune but declined to comment further.

Haney did not respond to a request for an interview, but provided a brief comment through his literary agent, Frank Weimann.

"I have nothing but respect for my former comrades," Haney said. "But I stand by everything in my book."

Weimann, an agent with The Literary Group International in New York, said Haney "doesn't feel the need to engage in pointless rhetoric."

"This is a newer version of Swift Boating," Weimann said, referring to the campaign by Navy Vietnam veterans to discredit 2004 presidential candidate John Kerry's military service.

Before joining Delta Force, Haney was an Army Ranger. William Sears, a retired staff sergeant who served with him in the 1st Ranger Battalion, said Haney is being criticized unfairly.

"Eric is not a liar. He's not anti-American," Sears said. "The fact that he's got a different opinion is what has gotten him into trouble with these people."

No Co-Founders
To those unfamiliar with the Delta fraternity, Haney casting himself as one of Delta's founding members might seem a minor infraction, a question of semantics. To those present at the creation, however, the claim is blasphemy.

"The only founder of the Delta Force was Charlie Beckwith," Burruss said. "There were no co-founders."

Haney was assigned to Delta in December 1978, according to Burruss, nearly 13 months after the organization was established. Haney would not become a qualified Delta operator until mid-1979.

Beckwith, a charismatic and controversial Army colonel, risked his career fighting for a more flexible special operations organization - one able to adapt quickly to unconventional threats such as an airplane hijacking.

Eventually, top military leaders directed Beckwith to create a counterterrorism team that would specialize in quick-strike, hostage-rescue missions. The hypersecret unit was named 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment-Delta. More simply, it was called Delta Force.

Beckwith died of natural causes in 1994 at age 65.

His daughter, Connie Beckwith Howe, has kept close ties with many of the soldiers picked by Beckwith to get Delta up and running. She has never met or spoken to Haney.

"People think he helped my dad start the unit, and he didn't," she said. "I haven't read Haney's book, and I don't care to."

Haney spent eight years with Delta Force, according to his book. In 1986, because of the mental and physical demands of the job, he was wrestling with whether to stay. Then, in rapid order, he received promotions to sergeant major and then command sergeant major, the highest rank an enlisted soldier can achieve in the Army.

With room for only one command sergeant major at Delta, Haney said the decision effectively was made for him. He asked for an assignment with an infantry unit and eventually retired from the Army in 1990.

A page from one of his final Delta efficiency reports is reprinted in his book. Haney is called an "outstanding" member of the organization, a soldier who is "tough, quiet and exceptionally talented."

Who thought so highly of Haney is not known, however, because the rater's name is not included on the document.

Average Performer
Wick said Haney never got above a four-man team leader position with Delta. His promotions to sergeant major and command sergeant major came after he left the organization, Wick said.

"He was a mediocre performer at best and not highly regarded by other unit members," Wick wrote in his e-mail to O'Reilly. "He liked to talk about how good he was instead of living it everyday."

Given Delta's demanding standards, mediocre would have made Haney a star in almost any other combat unit, Wick said, alluding to the caliber of Delta's personnel.

Released less than a year after the Sept. 11 attacks, "Inside Delta Force" received stellar reviews for providing a still-stunned American public with insights about the elite organization that was tracking Osama bin Laden and his al-Qaida associates.

With his counterterrorism background and willingness to share details, Haney began appearing on national radio and television news programs, including "The O'Reilly Factor," "Inside Edition" and "Larry King Live."

In 2003, Haney met and began working with writer/director David Mamet on one of Mamet's film projects. That led to a creative collaboration that resulted in "The Unit," according to information posted on the CBS Web site.

The action drama "follows a covert team of Special Forces operatives as they risk their lives on undercover missions around the globe, while their families maintain the home front, protecting their husbands' secrets," according to CBS.

The network has ordered 13 episodes of the program.

20th Century Fox Television is producing "The Unit." Company spokesman Chris Alexander would not say how much Haney is being paid, citing a longstanding practice of not discussing contract compensation.

Beyond the show, Haney has emerged as a sharp critic of the war in Iraq, telling the Los Angeles Daily News last month that President Bush had launched an "utter debacle" and "may well have started the third world war."

Credibility Questioned
Fitch, the former Delta squadron commander, said Haney's credibility to make such statements is undermined by inaccuracies in his book.

When Delta Force landed in the Iranian desert in April 1980 to stage the rescue of more than 50 Americans taken hostage months earlier, the Americans encountered a bus full of civilians traveling down a dirt road.

The bus was stopped and boarded by Delta operators. According to Haney's account, Fitch led the way. As he neared the rear of the bus, a young Iranian "jumped up and punched Logan in the nose," Haney wrote.

That never happened, Fitch said.

"If someone had hit me, I probably would have shot him," he said.

"I read 'Inside Delta Force' once, put it down in disgust and haven't picked it up since," Fitch said.


Dick Davis spent 15 years in Delta Force, succeeding Wick as the unit's command sergeant major in 1994. Davis said Haney has been trying to profit from his Delta experience since the mid-1990s, when he tried to claim copyright to the organization's emblem, a sword overlaid by a triangle-shaped thunderbolt.

Other individuals were responsible for the logo design, Davis said, and Haney's claim was rejected.

Haney's book revealed too much about the organization's inner workings, potentially putting people and programs at risk, he said.

"I don't have a lot time for Eric Haney," Davis said. "What he has done is break faith with the troops."

In a statement to The Tampa Tribune, the top spokesman at U.S. Special Operations Command noted that service members who have access to classified information are required to sign an agreement stating they will not disclose that information.

But Army Col. Sam Taylor would not say whether Haney's book violated that agreement. Military authorities were not given an opportunity to review "Inside Delta Force" before it was published, he said, but the command "and other government entities" did review it afterward.

Those authorities determined, "based on various factors, that no further action was warranted at that time," Taylor said.

"The book may, as with all books that purport to reveal historical events from an individual perspective, be biased, incomplete, contain elements of questionable accuracy or simply be wrong," he said. "Socom does not intend to specifically identify those areas."
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 6:58:50 AM EDT
Boy, that article doesn't pull any punches.


Link Posted: 4/11/2006 7:01:26 AM EDT
He's living the Hollywood life, making Hollywood money. I doubt that he gives a shit what they think of him.

CO
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 7:05:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Gopher:
There are many who feel the same way about Richard Marcinko.




I've met Dick a few times, and he is quite possibly the nicest guy I have ever met. From what I understood is that he is welcome to all SEAL reunion's, and is still quite respected.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 7:06:47 AM EDT
I posted a while back that Haney had pulled a Hackworth and sold out...but I was wrong. He's gone beyond Hack. Trying to fucking patent the Delta emblem???? What an idiot.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 7:07:55 AM EDT
Reminds me of Maurey Povichwhen a mother swears up and down that the man on the show IS her "baby daddy" and that there is no possible way that anybody else can be the father because she didn't have sex with anybody else, all while waiting for Maurey to announce the DNA results. Then Maurey provides the results and everybody knows she's a liar.

Why would somebody lie about something that is apparently easily verifiable with others and can ruin their career? I wonder if this will ruin this guy's.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 7:09:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fiend:

Originally Posted By Gopher:
There are many who feel the same way about Richard Marcinko.




I've met Dick a few times, and he is quite possibly the nicest guy I have ever met. From what I understood is that he is welcome to all SEAL reunion's, and is still quite respected.



I read a few of his books, including the biography and the fictional works. I always wonder how much was embelished, but I have no idea how much if any.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 7:14:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 7:45:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fiend:

Originally Posted By Gopher:
There are many who feel the same way about Richard Marcinko.




I've met Dick a few times, and he is quite possibly the nicest guy I have ever met. From what I understood is that he is welcome to all SEAL reunion's, and is still quite respected.




I saw Marcinko on Jesse Ventura's TV show once. They seemed to be quite good friends.

Last question Jesse asked him was "How long would it take him to find Bin Laden" if he had the resources. He said "A month. But dont ask me any questions when I get back."
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 7:54:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Alien:

Originally Posted By fiend:

Originally Posted By Gopher:
There are many who feel the same way about Richard Marcinko.




I've met Dick a few times, and he is quite possibly the nicest guy I have ever met. From what I understood is that he is welcome to all SEAL reunion's, and is still quite respected.



I read a few of his books, including the biography and the fictional works. I always wonder how much was embelished, but I have no idea how much if any.



I talked to a few guys from SEAL Team 8 that knew him a while ago, and they said that although some stuff was a little exagerrated his autobiography was pretty much spot-on. And I gotta agree with the original poster of this topic, while I know what fiend said holds true, you can't deny that there's a lot of people (base commanders from the Red Cell days, for example) that would rather he still be behind bars.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 7:58:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fiend:

Originally Posted By Gopher:
There are many who feel the same way about Richard Marcinko.


I've met Dick a few times, and he is quite possibly the nicest guy I have ever met. From what I understood is that he is welcome to all SEAL reunion's, and is still quite respected.


Met him several years back. That was one big dude!!
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:02:31 AM EDT
Due to the amount of "Baby'sMommaDramaEtc" on the "UNIT" (at least the three episodes I watched) I figgered the writers were all chicks...
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:03:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fiend:

Originally Posted By Gopher:
There are many who feel the same way about Richard Marcinko.




I've met Dick a few times, and he is quite possibly the nicest guy I have ever met. From what I understood is that he is welcome to all SEAL reunion's, and is still quite respected.



I second that, "Dick" is a true warrior badass!
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:10:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fiend:

Originally Posted By Gopher:
There are many who feel the same way about Richard Marcinko.




I've met Dick a few times, and he is quite possibly the nicest guy I have ever met. From what I understood is that he is welcome to all SEAL reunion's, and is still quite respected.



I have heard from others that he is a real nice guy... until he has too few many drinks.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:32:38 AM EDT
I met Logan Fitch a little more than twenty years ago, when I was interviewing with Merrill Lynch. At the time, Fitch had been with Merrill for a couple of years and was doing pretty well, given his relatively short time in the business.

During the interview, I remember looking at him and thinking (through my ex-bar bouncer perspective) that if I were wroking in a bar, I'd definitely keep an eye on him if he walked in. He appeared to be a guy who looks like he could really inflict some harm on a guy if he wanted to, and probably has done so at some point. His nose looked like a boxer's, and even though he was middle aged, there was no doubting his abilities.

A few years ago, I had read Haney's book as well as Beckwith's, both detailing the beginnings of Delta Force. I know it was in Beckwith's book, and possibly in Haney's that Logan Fitch was mentioned quite a few times. Apparently, he had broken his nose getting slammed into the door of a helicopter. One I read that acoount, I knew it was the same guy. The last I heard of him, he was still an investment advisor in Houston, but may be retired now.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:49:32 AM EDT
Guys I don't mean to say anything to discredit Marcinko. I have a buddy who is a friend of his and makes the retreats every year and he says he is a stand up guy.

When Rougue Warrior and Red Cell came out there were many in the SEAL and Spec Op's community who were saying the same things about him. Many were folks who had personal grudges against him or were jelous of his newfound fame and money. LEO's were saying the same about Joesph Waumbaugh in the early 70's when he wrote his books about the LAPD.

They were the first in the various groups to break "The Code of Silence" or the "whats said in the room stays in the room."

Enough truth to make some people nervous.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 10:05:08 AM EDT
I don't think it's because he embellishes the truth, but rather because he made public a lot of stuff that probably should have remained a mystery, at least for a few decades.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 10:11:45 AM EDT
I really don't know who to believe when these special ops types start arguing amongst themselves.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 10:15:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fiend:

Originally Posted By Gopher:
There are many who feel the same way about Richard Marcinko.




I've met Dick a few times, and he is quite possibly the nicest guy I have ever met.



I have met him too..........and he is friendly, informative and quite a character.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 10:21:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Gopher:
Guys I don't mean to say anything to discredit Marcinko. I have a buddy who is a friend of his and makes the retreats every year and he says he is a stand up guy.

When Rougue Warrior and Red Cell came out there were many in the SEAL and Spec Op's community who were saying the same things about him. Many were folks who had personal grudges against him or were jelous of his newfound fame and money. LEO's were saying the same about Joesph Waumbaugh in the early 70's when he wrote his books about the LAPD.

They were the first in the various groups to break "The Code of Silence" or the "whats said in the room stays in the room."

Enough truth to make some people nervous.



Yup. I can't help but notice that this kind of a thing appears to be a recurring trend with most authors with SOF histories.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 10:24:29 AM EDT
IIRC, Col Beckwith's first choice for an Delta was OUBETA's Granddad Maj Dick Meadows. Haney couldn't even wear Dick Meadows jock strap.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 10:28:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 10:30:01 AM EDT by Mister44]
er -nm
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 10:47:33 AM EDT
From a pure entertainment angle, The Unit is a decent show relative to the other crap on TV. It is better than Dallas Swat which is guaranteed to put you to sleep within 20 minutes. There is nothing educational about it because of the silly crap that comes out of their mouths and little entertaining about it as it moves pretty slow.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 10:51:06 AM EDT
i thought dick meadows was hired by beckwith as some sort of contractor ? that he didnt actualy go threw selection or anything like that. The fact that Haney served his country in Delta and the Rangers lets me think he has earned the right to say what he wants. I do remember reading about how all the SEALs hated Marcinko when his books came out and how he never did any of that shit. I think its a few a jelouse guys pissed that some one did something they wished they had.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 11:02:16 AM EDT
I don't see anything other than sour grapes here. The guy was an operator for 10 years, I doubt they tolerate mediocre.

As for embellishment, show me a soldier, cop, or foreman that doesn't "perfect" stories the more often they are told.

Now, fabricating participation in missions he wasn't on, that's another story.

Hard to tell who's telling the truth here, but as others have observed, this criticism seems par for the course whenever someone from the inside decides to cash in.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 11:10:53 AM EDT
The tricky thing about it is that most of the stuff can never be truly verified.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 11:15:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CITADELGRAD87:
I don't see anything other than sour grapes here. The guy was an operator for 10 years, I doubt they tolerate mediocre.

As for embellishment, show me a soldier, cop, or foreman that doesn't "perfect" stories the more often they are told.

Now, fabricating participation in missions he wasn't on, that's another story.

Hard to tell who's telling the truth here, but as others have observed, this criticism seems par for the course whenever someone from the inside decides to cash in.



What was meant is that Haney was mediocre- for a Delta guy.

A few days ago I was watching this Paul Newman interview and in it he was talking about how time changes perception. The example was he and a few guys from WWII had gotten together to talk about old times, and that none of them could agree on any details of events that they had all participated in together. Pretty interesting when viewing this sort of thing.

Cheers
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 11:32:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CITADELGRAD87:
The guy was an operator for 10 years, I doubt they tolerate mediocre.



We had a guy on our tactical team for 10 years. His job was to go get lunch, make sammiches, do paperwork, haul water, reserve the range, and load magazines.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 11:36:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CITADELGRAD87:

Hard to tell who's telling the truth here, but as others have observed, this criticism seems par for the course whenever someone from the inside decides to cash in.

Ya, who knows what's real and what's not? But I'll still watch "The Unit", because it's entertaining and that's the only reason I watch it anyway.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 11:53:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CITADELGRAD87:
I don't see anything other than sour grapes here.



Nothing "sour grapes" about the fact that Haney tried to fucking copyright the Delta insignia. What an asshat.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:08:59 PM EDT
Has anyone from any of these types of units ever been successful in writing or movies and not ended up having similar comments from other members of the unit made about him?
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:30:19 PM EDT
A few things about Marcinko as I understand them...

Don't forget ONLY Rogue Warrior was non-fiction....the rest (other than his management books) were all strictly fiction based a bit on current events and threats. So obviously there was tons of embellishment in them. Fun reads but not to be thought of as truth...

But Rogue Warrior was pretty spot on factually, but written with a certain dramatic flair.

Marcinko inflicted a lot of black eyes to higher ups during the Red Cell days, and a lot of Navy Brass hate him for that.

I would guess a lot of Team guys might not like the notariety (sp?) that the books have caused, and there might be some jealousy there...I don't know.

I guess it depends whether people believe him to be a thief, or just set up for a fall. Personally I believe he was set up by a pissed off establishment. True unconventional warriors always seem to be black sheep....
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:36:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Avenging_Parrot:
Has anyone from any of these types of units ever been successful in writing or movies and not ended up having similar comments from other members of the unit made about him?



There've been plenty of books written by former SEALs, SF, etc that have not had similar comments. Of course, most of them weren't exercises in dishonest self-aggrandizement.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:40:13 PM EDT
"The problem was, how do you find the people on the blacklist? It's not like you had their address and telephone number. The normal procedure would be to go into a village and just grab someone and say, 'Where's Nguyen so-and-so?' Half the time the people were so afraid they would say anything. Then a Phoenix team would take the informant, put a sandbag over his head, poke out two holes so he could see, put commo wire around his neck like a long leash, and walk him through the village and say, 'When we go by Nguyen's house scratch your head.' Then that night Phoenix would come back, knock on the door, and say, 'April Fool, motherfucker.' Whoever answered the door would get wasted. As far as they were concerned whoever answered was a Communist, including family members. Sometimes they'd come back to camp with ears to prove that they killed people."
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:42:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 12:45:16 PM EDT by AgentFork]
Didn't Haney whore himself out to the media as well?

I'm pretty sure he's anti-gun, and was on CNN once bitching about America's Army when it first came out, talking about how it could train kids to kill other people effectively. I've seen him as a talking head and as an authority on numerous news programs. I think he also claimed Americans shouldn't be able to own AR-15s after the whole Washington sniper ordeal.

archives.cnn.com/2002/US/South/10/24/sniper.bushmaster.rifle/index.html

Doesn't know much shit about Bushmaster either, apparently. I would love one for $500.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:44:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By Avenging_Parrot:
Has anyone from any of these types of units ever been successful in writing or movies and not ended up having similar comments from other members of the unit made about him?



There've been plenty of books written by former SEALs, SF, etc that have not had similar comments. Of course, most of them weren't exercises in dishonest self-aggrandizement.



But did any of those guys rise to fame in the popular press like McNabb or this guy?
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 2:55:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Avenging_Parrot:

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By Avenging_Parrot:
Has anyone from any of these types of units ever been successful in writing or movies and not ended up having similar comments from other members of the unit made about him?



There've been plenty of books written by former SEALs, SF, etc that have not had similar comments. Of course, most of them weren't exercises in dishonest self-aggrandizement.



But did any of those guys rise to fame in the popular press like McNabb or this guy?



I read an excellent book by an SF operator from Vietnam. I believe he was awarded the MOH because of his actions during an ambush, where he kept his other team members alive while gravely injured himself, over a period of several hours. The person's name escapes me, but I recall that after he received the medal, he wanted to stay in the action, and the higher-ups tricked him and they got him discharged because it would be bad publicity for a MOH recipient to get killed in action. I seem to recall he was held in very high regard and never criticized for writing about his experiences.

Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:01:24 PM EDT
i think i know what book your talking about....i hope it is and you can tell me the name of it cause i lost mine. Wasnt the guy a green beret and he was leading a team of montanyards or some mercs from china and he ends up getting shot in the stomache and the rest of his team is killed or cant fight on?
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:07:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 3:14:08 PM EDT by eodtech2000]

Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:

Originally Posted By Avenging_Parrot:

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By Avenging_Parrot:
Has anyone from any of these types of units ever been successful in writing or movies and not ended up having similar comments from other members of the unit made about him?



There've been plenty of books written by former SEALs, SF, etc that have not had similar comments. Of course, most of them weren't exercises in dishonest self-aggrandizement.



But did any of those guys rise to fame in the popular press like McNabb or this guy?



I read an excellent book by an SF operator from Vietnam. I believe he was awarded the MOH because of his actions during an ambush, where he kept his other team members alive while gravely injured himself, over a period of several hours. The person's name escapes me, but I recall that after he received the medal, he wanted to stay in the action, and the higher-ups tricked him and they got him discharged because it would be bad publicity for a MOH recipient to get killed in action. I seem to recall he was held in very high regard and never criticized for writing about his experiences.




Not Franklin D. Miller by any chance? He was drugged and they threw him on a plane out of Vietnam, he was on his 7th tour, the Army didn't want to see a MOH awardee get killed. He was very bitter about that, he loved Vietnam, his Yards, and ASSKICKING. He eventually came to realize bitterness wasn't helping his situation back in Garrison, he started teaching all who wanted to learn the tricks of the trade. Doug Miller is one of the few who can be mentioned in the same breath as Dick Meadows, Maj Plastor recalls Doug Miller as one of only two SF members (the other is MOH awardee IIRC also and a major asskicker also) who had absolutely NO FEAR no matter how hairy the Op got.

Doug Miller passed away from pancreatic cancer a few years ago.

ETA: I met CSM Franklin "Doug" Miller at Schofield Barracks back in 1991. He was your typical SF type, laid back but in his case you could tell there was something "different" about him, you could tell he was bad news to mess with. He told me he loved to train Soldiers and teach them the tricks and methods that could save their lives in combat. He was a natural storyteller too, when he spoke of his days in Vietnam, you almost felt like you were with him.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:12:15 PM EDT
yep thats the book i was talking about.....truly amazing.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:19:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HillBillySniper:
yep thats the book i was talking about.....truly amazing.



Here is his MOH citation, makes my hair on my neck stand up every time I read it.


United States Military Advisory Command Vietnam

Studies and Observations Group

Distinguished himself on 5 January 1970, as team leader of a joint American-Vietnamese long-range reconnaissance patrol operating deep within enemy territory in Cambodia. During the patrol, one of the team members tripped a hostile booby trap, wounding four soldiers. Sergeant Miller, knowing that the explosion would alert the enemy, quickly administered first aid to the wounded and directed the team into positions across a small stream at the base of a steep hill. Within a few minutes, the lead element of an estimated platoon-sized enemy force was moving toward his location. Sergeant Miller directed the small team to move up the hill to a more secure position while he remained alone, separated from the patrol to meet the attack. Sergeant Miller single-handedly repulsed two determined attacks by the superior enemy force and caused them to withdraw in disorder. He rejoined his team, established contact with a forward air controller and arranged the evacuation of his patrol. Sergeant Miller reconnoitered the route to the only suitable extraction location and led his men through the enemy controlled jungle to the site. As the helicopter hovered to pick up the patrol, a savage automatic weapon and rocket propelled grenade attack against the beleaguered team drove off the rescue helicopter. Sergeant Miller led the team in a valiant defense, driving the enemy back. Seriously wounded and every team member a casualty, Sergeant Miller moved his men to a more protected location. He again moved forward to single-handedly meet the hostile attackers. From his forward exposed position, he gallantly repelled two attacks by the enemy until a friendly relief force arrived.




Here is Doug with his brother during the MOH ceremony, he is real thin as he was recovering from his wounds. Doug's brother was in SF and was the radio operater on the Son Tay raid.

Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:28:09 PM EDT
didnt he get shot in the stomache and was puking up blood?
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 4:01:59 PM EDT
That's too bad, because I heard him interviewed on local radio, and he made

it sound that he was above the "Hollywood" crap and was going to keep the

"Unit" truthful.

Well, another disappointment.

GM
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 4:10:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HillBillySniper:
didnt he get shot in the stomache and was puking up blood?



Through the lung.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 4:21:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Coop_K:
I really don't know who to believe when these special ops types start arguing amongst themselves.




And THAT...... Is most likely, EXACTLY what they want.....


Hard to filter truth from fiction any when everybody and their grandmother is calling each other liars.


I've no doubt it's all as intended. Keep us guessing, and buying the books
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 4:37:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JB69:

Originally Posted By Coop_K:
I really don't know who to believe when these special ops types start arguing amongst themselves.




And THAT...... Is most likely, EXACTLY what they want.....


Hard to filter truth from fiction any when everybody and their grandmother is calling each other liars.


I've no doubt it's all as intended. Keep us guessing, and buying the books



One's reputation is everything in that community, they are normally very reserved but they do not tolerate people who claim shit they did not do or didn't happen very well.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 11:19:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Coop_K:
I really don't know who to believe when these special ops types start arguing amongst themselves.



Believe whoever isn't making a shitload of money off of what they say.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 2:28:57 PM EDT
Gee...I was right again. This is getting monotonous.
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