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Posted: 4/10/2006 7:52:06 PM EDT
Law-abiding citizens with the best intentions underestimate how hard it is to use a gun for self-defense successfully. Even highly-trained police officers lose control of their handguns; according to the FBI, 5 out of 41 law enforcement officers (12%) killed by gunfire in the line of duty in 1999 were killed by an adversary with the officer's own service weapon. And police officers know that the very sight of a gun can escalate a situation, so that instead of simply losing your wallet, you can lose your life. That's why almost every major law enforcement organization - including the International Brotherhood of Police Officers and the International Association of Chiefs of Police - opposes the weakening of CCW laws. (See Law Enforcement Relations)

Link Posted: 4/11/2006 5:41:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CRC:
Law-abiding citizens with the best intentions underestimate how hard it is to use a gun for self-defense successfully. Even highly-trained police officers lose control of their handguns; according to the FBI, 5 out of 41 law enforcement officers (12%) killed by gunfire in the line of duty in 1999 were killed by an adversary with the officer's own service weapon. And police officers know that the very sight of a gun can escalate a situation, so that instead of simply losing your wallet, you can lose your life. That's why almost every major law enforcement organization - including the International Brotherhood of Police Officers and the International Association of Chiefs of Police - opposes the weakening of CCW laws. (See Law Enforcement Relations)




I don't understand your question? And the highlighted part does not make sense to me..
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 5:47:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 5:55:59 AM EDT
YOu reallt expect any legitimate LE organization to back civilian carry on a national level?

Man.... I guess that W.C. Fields was right.

I was opposed to HR 218 from the start, but a lot of people thought it would lead to an expansion of rights for the little guy. We had a bunch of cops saying that, and I didn't believe a word of it.

THe FOP is opposed to civilian carry, the IACP is opposed to civilian carry, the IBPO is opposed and so on and so forth.. supposedly LEAA is gun friendly, but i haven't seen anything from them supporting civilian carry on the national level.

AS usual, the police have MORE rights than the little guy.....
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 5:56:39 AM EDT
They can kiss my ass in hell.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:52:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:55:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 8:56:15 AM EDT by NonConformist]
I think ALL Law Abiding Citizens should be able to carry however and whenever they want, in ALL 50 states.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:05:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 9:06:34 AM EDT by A_Free_Man]
International Brotherhood of Police Officers and the International Association of Chiefs of Police

Asshats, all of them. I don't trust any LEO that is a member of either of these groups.

I think ALL Law Abiding Citizens should be able to carry however and whenever they want, in ALL 50 states.

+1

(ETA) This is working well for Vermont and Alaska.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:06:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NonConformist:
I think ALL Law Abiding Citizens should be able to carry however and whenever they want, in ALL 50 states.



they can. you just have to deal with the man when he comes...


Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:23:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hydguy:
YOu reallt expect any legitimate LE organization to back civilian carry on a national level?

Man.... I guess that W.C. Fields was right.

I was opposed to HR 218 from the start, but a lot of people thought it would lead to an expansion of rights for the little guy. We had a bunch of cops saying that, and I didn't believe a word of it.

THe FOP is opposed to civilian carry, the IACP is opposed to civilian carry, the IBPO is opposed and so on and so forth.. supposedly LEAA is gun friendly, but i haven't seen anything from them supporting civilian carry on the national level.

AS usual, the police have MORE rights than the little guy.....



Did you look? www.leaa.org/Cops%20Versus%20Gun%20Control/copsversusguncon.html Took me all of 2 seconds.

First paragraph on their homepage.

Welcome to the Home of LEAA

The Law Enforcement Alliance of America (LEAA) is the nation's largest non-profit, non-partisan coalition of law enforcement professionals, crime victims, and concerned citizens united for justice. With a major focus on public education, LEAA is dedicated to providing hard facts and real-world insights into the world of law enforcement and the battle against violent crime. LEAA fights at every level of government for legislation that reduces violent crime while preserving the rights of honest citizens, particularly the right of self-defense.

Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:29:54 AM EDT
Some of the groups you are complaining about were opposed to the LEO nationwide carry bill, so its no surprise their opposition extends to similar non-LEO bills.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:14:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By Hydguy:
YOu reallt expect any legitimate LE organization to back civilian carry on a national level?

Man.... I guess that W.C. Fields was right.

I was opposed to HR 218 from the start, but a lot of people thought it would lead to an expansion of rights for the little guy. We had a bunch of cops saying that, and I didn't believe a word of it.

THe FOP is opposed to civilian carry, the IACP is opposed to civilian carry, the IBPO is opposed and so on and so forth.. supposedly LEAA is gun friendly, but i haven't seen anything from them supporting civilian carry on the national level.

AS usual, the police have MORE rights than the little guy.....



Did you look? www.leaa.org/Cops%20Versus%20Gun%20Control/copsversusguncon.html Took me all of 2 seconds.

First paragraph on their homepage.

Welcome to the Home of LEAA

The Law Enforcement Alliance of America (LEAA) is the nation's largest non-profit, non-partisan coalition of law enforcement professionals, crime victims, and concerned citizens united for justice. With a major focus on public education, LEAA is dedicated to providing hard facts and real-world insights into the world of law enforcement and the battle against violent crime. LEAA fights at every level of government for legislation that reduces violent crime while preserving the rights of honest citizens, particularly the right of self-defense.




Wow... a statement on a website.... Like I said, I haven't seen anything on the NATIONAL level..... The internet isn't the national level...where are their lobbiests? Are they activly persuing a national carry act for us lowley civilians?
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 4:15:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hydguy:

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By Hydguy:
YOu reallt expect any legitimate LE organization to back civilian carry on a national level?

Man.... I guess that W.C. Fields was right.

I was opposed to HR 218 from the start, but a lot of people thought it would lead to an expansion of rights for the little guy. We had a bunch of cops saying that, and I didn't believe a word of it.

THe FOP is opposed to civilian carry, the IACP is opposed to civilian carry, the IBPO is opposed and so on and so forth.. supposedly LEAA is gun friendly, but i haven't seen anything from them supporting civilian carry on the national level.

AS usual, the police have MORE rights than the little guy.....



Did you look? www.leaa.org/Cops%20Versus%20Gun%20Control/copsversusguncon.html Took me all of 2 seconds.

First paragraph on their homepage.

Welcome to the Home of LEAA

The Law Enforcement Alliance of America (LEAA) is the nation's largest non-profit, non-partisan coalition of law enforcement professionals, crime victims, and concerned citizens united for justice. With a major focus on public education, LEAA is dedicated to providing hard facts and real-world insights into the world of law enforcement and the battle against violent crime. LEAA fights at every level of government for legislation that reduces violent crime while preserving the rights of honest citizens, particularly the right of self-defense.




Wow... a statement on a website.... Like I said, I haven't seen anything on the NATIONAL level..... The internet isn't the national level...where are their lobbiests? Are they activly persuing a national carry act for us lowley civilians?



Yeah, I guess they should have someone over your house helping you clean your guns.

Is there anything else you need?

I guess their attempts to be a voice for law abiding citizens isn't enough. You should note your displeasure on the next check you send to them to help them continue their work.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 4:18:20 PM EDT
just about every LEO i have ever run into has been very pro-gun/pro CCW
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 4:26:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 4:34:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By Hydguy:

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By Hydguy:
YOu reallt expect any legitimate LE organization to back civilian carry on a national level?

Man.... I guess that W.C. Fields was right.

I was opposed to HR 218 from the start, but a lot of people thought it would lead to an expansion of rights for the little guy. We had a bunch of cops saying that, and I didn't believe a word of it.

THe FOP is opposed to civilian carry, the IACP is opposed to civilian carry, the IBPO is opposed and so on and so forth.. supposedly LEAA is gun friendly, but i haven't seen anything from them supporting civilian carry on the national level.

AS usual, the police have MORE rights than the little guy.....



Did you look? www.leaa.org/Cops%20Versus%20Gun%20Control/copsversusguncon.html Took me all of 2 seconds.

First paragraph on their homepage.

Welcome to the Home of LEAA

The Law Enforcement Alliance of America (LEAA) is the nation's largest non-profit, non-partisan coalition of law enforcement professionals, crime victims, and concerned citizens united for justice. With a major focus on public education, LEAA is dedicated to providing hard facts and real-world insights into the world of law enforcement and the battle against violent crime. LEAA fights at every level of government for legislation that reduces violent crime while preserving the rights of honest citizens, particularly the right of self-defense.




Wow... a statement on a website.... Like I said, I haven't seen anything on the NATIONAL level..... The internet isn't the national level...where are their lobbiests? Are they activly persuing a national carry act for us lowley civilians?



Yeah, I guess they should have someone over your house helping you clean your guns.

Is there anything else you need?

I guess their attempts to be a voice for law abiding citizens isn't enough. You should note your displeasure on the next check you send to them to help them continue their work.



Well.... Where are you? My guns are still dirty.......

Like I said, A statement on a website means nothing. Cops got theirs, so that is all that matters.... After all, it's more important that COPS go home after their shift..........

I said when the bill was passed that we, the non special status ones, would get hung out to dry, and what has happened?
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 4:39:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:
just about every LEO i have ever run into has been very pro-gun/pro CCW


You don't live in a large northeastern city.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 6:10:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hydguy:

Well.... Where are you? My guns are still dirty.......

Like I said, A statement on a website means nothing. Cops got theirs, so that is all that matters.... After all, it's more important that COPS go home after their shift..........

I said when the bill was passed that we, the non special status ones, would get hung out to dry, and what has happened?



Yeah, I think the real problem is becoming apparent in your posts. You have serious "little man" issues.

Where did they "hang you out to dry"? Next, if they don't suppoert "self defense rights" for all, why would they put it on their website? Why would they post that they want to protect law abiding citizens Rights?

That's right, politically, if they weren't for it, they wouldn't post it. They gain nothing by posting those views, unless they actually believe in them.

What has the NRA or GOA done for you recently. What laws have been overturned as a direct result of thier influence? Or kept from becoming law in the first place? Post an all inclusive list.

Link Posted: 4/11/2006 6:21:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 6:22:43 PM EDT by Sukebe]

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:
just about every LEO i have ever run into has been very pro-gun/pro CCW



most i have met don't really care.



I've never seen a cop make a fuss over a citizen rightfully using a gun for self defense. However, I've never seen but a few make any effort to support CCW for everyone. Also, I've never seen but a few speak out against it. Most are just like everyone else when it comes to politics. If it doesn't effect them, they aren't interested. When CCW for Ohio became an issue, me and some like minded others signed some petitions, made some phone calls and expressed our support. I imagine quite a few non LEO's did the same for HR 218. Those who opposed it? Well, they're no better than cops who oppose CCW.

Show me a national CCW bill for everyone and I'll support it. But don't cry because I have it and you don't. Get to work on it. We did.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 6:30:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hydguy:

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By Hydguy:

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By Hydguy:
YOu reallt expect any legitimate LE organization to back civilian carry on a national level?

Man.... I guess that W.C. Fields was right.

I was opposed to HR 218 from the start, but a lot of people thought it would lead to an expansion of rights for the little guy. We had a bunch of cops saying that, and I didn't believe a word of it.

THe FOP is opposed to civilian carry, the IACP is opposed to civilian carry, the IBPO is opposed and so on and so forth.. supposedly LEAA is gun friendly, but i haven't seen anything from them supporting civilian carry on the national level.

AS usual, the police have MORE rights than the little guy.....



Did you look? www.leaa.org/Cops%20Versus%20Gun%20Control/copsversusguncon.html Took me all of 2 seconds.

First paragraph on their homepage.

Welcome to the Home of LEAA

The Law Enforcement Alliance of America (LEAA) is the nation's largest non-profit, non-partisan coalition of law enforcement professionals, crime victims, and concerned citizens united for justice. With a major focus on public education, LEAA is dedicated to providing hard facts and real-world insights into the world of law enforcement and the battle against violent crime. LEAA fights at every level of government for legislation that reduces violent crime while preserving the rights of honest citizens, particularly the right of self-defense.




Wow... a statement on a website.... Like I said, I haven't seen anything on the NATIONAL level..... The internet isn't the national level...where are their lobbiests? Are they activly persuing a national carry act for us lowley civilians?



Yeah, I guess they should have someone over your house helping you clean your guns.

Is there anything else you need?

I guess their attempts to be a voice for law abiding citizens isn't enough. You should note your displeasure on the next check you send to them to help them continue their work.



Well.... Where are you? My guns are still dirty.......

Like I said, A statement on a website means nothing. Cops got theirs, so that is all that matters.... After all, it's more important that COPS go home after their shift..........

I said when the bill was passed that we, the non special status ones, would get hung out to dry, and what has happened?



Look back at the original thread when this bill was first presented here. I think it was CRC.

I'll say it once again,

I TOLD YOU SO. LAW ABIDING CITIZENS ARE ONCE AGAIN SCREWED!!!!

HS1
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 6:50:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By Hydguy:

Well.... Where are you? My guns are still dirty.......

Like I said, A statement on a website means nothing. Cops got theirs, so that is all that matters.... After all, it's more important that COPS go home after their shift..........

I said when the bill was passed that we, the non special status ones, would get hung out to dry, and what has happened?



Yeah, I think the real problem is becoming apparent in your posts. You have serious "little man" issues.

Where did they "hang you out to dry"? Next, if they don't suppoert "self defense rights" for all, why would they put it on their website? Why would they post that they want to protect law abiding citizens Rights?

That's right, politically, if they weren't for it, they wouldn't post it. They gain nothing by posting those views, unless they actually believe in them.

What has the NRA or GOA done for you recently. What laws have been overturned as a direct result of thier influence? Or kept from becoming law in the first place? Post an all inclusive list.




I get the e-mail alerts from the NRA, and it seems that they have done quite a bit. The sunsetting of the AWB for starters. Not a member of GOA. But the group that I most strongly support is VCDL. And they have done a lot for gun owners in VA, and have started to dabble in federal issues. And what has the FOP, IBOP, IACP, and the other 'respectable' law enforcement idiots done? You can spout all the crap about 'rank and file', but that doesn't cut it. Those orginizations represent the police. And you are the police. If they don't represent your views, replace the people.

I will give credit to LEAA, because they at least put up a statement, but statements don't do much. The NRA spent a lot of money helping elect officials that support our rights, unlike your orginizations.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 11:41:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sukebe:

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:
just about every LEO i have ever run into has been very pro-gun/pro CCW



most i have met don't really care.



I've never seen a cop make a fuss over a citizen rightfully using a gun for self defense. However, I've never seen but a few make any effort to support CCW for everyone. Also, I've never seen but a few speak out against it. Most are just like everyone else when it comes to politics. If it doesn't effect them, they aren't interested. When CCW for Ohio became an issue, me and some like minded others signed some petitions, made some phone calls and expressed our support. I imagine quite a few non LEO's did the same for HR 218. Those who opposed it? Well, they're no better than cops who oppose CCW.

Show me a national CCW bill for everyone and I'll support it. But don't cry because I have it and you don't. Get to work on it. We did.



I bet most cops don't even know HR 218 passed.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 11:55:15 AM EDT
Well, this is very obviously a TROLL post....by an anti for sure.

First, as an ex member of the IACP & a 30 plus year vet CLEO I can say with no little base of knowledge that the IACP is and will always be on the anti side of this issue. You just have to understand the base of it's membership to catch my meaning, most are the "3 piece suit" type of police chiefs that will above all else be politically correct. Fellows, the guy, or broad, that posted this is for aure a troll..


By the way, that percentage of officers killed via their own piece is a virtually static figure, as such hi's bounced back & forth from 12 to 15 for the last FORTY years!


Just remember, the IACP opposes ANYONE other than them having guns. & they don't even really trust each other.....A real bunch of goddamned phonys & big government control freaks!

Link Posted: 4/12/2006 12:03:54 PM EDT
I posted this from the Brady Campaign's law enforcment site.
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