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Posted: 4/9/2006 9:15:36 PM EDT
I was wondering about this. Does each state have it's own munitions storage facilities for it's National Guard, or would they have to go to a federal storage site in case of disaster/insurrection/zombies/watever?



-K
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 9:23:16 PM EDT
Why do you want to know?
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 9:25:45 PM EDT
They are stored under each state capitol
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 4:11:04 AM EDT
The basement of the Alamo.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 4:13:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 4:13:30 AM EDT by HarrySacz]
I think that each unit has their own stash, i have been to the armory here and they did have a nice collection behind the steel cage.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:05:33 AM EDT
No ammo is stored at the armory. We draw ours from the nearest Federal facility as needed.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:23:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
No ammo is stored at the armory. We draw ours from the nearest Federal facility as needed.




+1

Same thing when I was in.

If America was really whacked or was invaded by zomies, it would take at least 24 hours for the National Guard to be able to issue weapons to it's soldiers. We didn't even have the bolts for the weapons at the Armory. If someone stole an M16, the bolt wouldn't be in it, making it immediately ineffective, unless you had your own bolt.

Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:34:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By lippo:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
No ammo is stored at the armory. We draw ours from the nearest Federal facility as needed.




+1

Same thing when I was in.

If America was really whacked or was invaded by zomies, it would take at least 24 hours for the National Guard to be able to issue weapons to it's soldiers. We didn't even have the bolts for the weapons at the Armory. If someone stole an M16, the bolt wouldn't be in it, making it immediately ineffective, unless you had your own bolt.




Big surprise here.

IIRC on 9-11-01 we had four F-16's aloft , two of which were unarmed , protecting the whole country. I guess we haven't learned anything from Pearl Harbor, let alone 9-11.

Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:42:27 AM EDT
Join then you can know everything you ever wanted to know.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:42:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By weptek911:
Big surprise here.

IIRC on 9-11-01 we had four F-16's aloft , two of which were unarmed , protecting the whole country. I guess we haven't learned anything from Pearl Harbor, let alone 9-11.



It will take hours for any Guard unit to be available in any crisis. Even on 9-11 with a lot of guys self-reporting to the unit it took hours. In that time, arrangements can be made to get needed supplies to the unit. The pencil pushers see liability when they hear about stuff like ammo being stored on site.

And of course, if an NCO or two actually has the foresight to lay in a stash of just in case ammo, they get spanked for it.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:55:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
No ammo is stored at the armory. We draw ours from the nearest Federal facility Walmart as needed.




Fixed it for ya.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:57:42 AM EDT
Our local Armory is the company HQ for a company of the 29th ID and they have small arms, small arms ammo and I believe some grenades stored there. Was told this by the company commander.

I don't know if they have ammo on site because they are near DC or not.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 6:05:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rebel_rifle:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
No ammo is stored at the armory. We draw ours from the nearest Federal facility Walmart as needed.




Fixed it for ya.


Uh, no. No non-.mil ammo allowed down a barrel of a military weapon. Years ago I bought a couple cases of 5.56 Black Hills ammo for a few of the guys to practice with because we couldn't get any ammo to practice with prior to qual, and they had a cow. Same thing happened a few years later when I wanted to get some practice in with M9s. As much as they talk about being able to get practice ammo in and all of that, its simply not available through channels ( which even when they tell you its available through channels, its a 2 year process to get it ), but they wont let you shoot non-mil stuff.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 6:10:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By rebel_rifle:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
No ammo is stored at the armory. We draw ours from the nearest Federal facility Walmart as needed.




Fixed it for ya.


Uh, no. No non-.mil ammo allowed down a barrel of a military weapon. Years ago I bought a couple cases of 5.56 Black Hills ammo for a few of the guys to practice with because we couldn't get any ammo to practice with prior to qual, and they had a cow. Same thing happened a few years later when I wanted to get some practice in with M9s. As much as they talk about being able to get practice ammo in and all of that, its simply not available through channels ( which even when they tell you its available through channels, its a 2 year process to get it ), but they wont let you shoot non-mil stuff.



Your not supposed to tell them you got it from Wallmart.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 6:55:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FunYun1983:
Your not supposed to tell them you got it from Wallmart.


How much .mil ammo do you see Walmart selling?
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 9:26:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 10:03:02 AM EDT by Bohr_Adam]

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By rebel_rifle:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
No ammo is stored at the armory. We draw ours from the nearest Federal facility Walmart as needed.




Fixed it for ya.


Uh, no. No non-.mil ammo allowed down a barrel of a military weapon. Years ago I bought a couple cases of 5.56 Black Hills ammo for a few of the guys to practice with because we couldn't get any ammo to practice with prior to qual, and they had a cow. Same thing happened a few years later when I wanted to get some practice in with M9s. As much as they talk about being able to get practice ammo in and all of that, its simply not available through channels ( which even when they tell you its available through channels, its a 2 year process to get it ), but they wont let you shoot non-mil stuff.



Please quite trying go to apply your NY state BS you experienced across the whole National Guard, or Army in general.

"Just in case" small arms ammo is specifically authorized in the regs for storage in arms rooms, and I know of at least one occasion where a unit has resorted to the ol' Wal-Mart ASP to get training ammo (the O-4 S-3 sought me out for guidance, I told him the wally world ammo would work fine - I was a 2LT at the time. Nobody else ever found out. All the NCOs that fucked up the ammo forecast and range planning in the S-3 shop - and are supposed to "make it happen" - could only keep whining that we need to just reschedule - so yeah, I get a kick out of your subtle NCO vs. officer jab there).

It sounds like your unit was incompetently run at some level, Training ammo IS very easy to get, the problem is in the forecasting and planning. You also are authorized force protection ammo in your arms room, and it strikes me as borderline criminally negligent for a National Guard unit not to have any. It's not enough to launch an assualt, but plenty to arm a small guard force or security detail while coordinating to draw your ABL.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 9:28:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By lippo:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
No ammo is stored at the armory. We draw ours from the nearest Federal facility as needed.



+1

Same thing when I was in.

If America was really whacked or was invaded by zomies, it would take at least 24 hours for the National Guard to be able to issue weapons to it's soldiers. We didn't even have the bolts for the weapons at the Armory. If someone stole an M16, the bolt wouldn't be in it, making it immediately ineffective, unless you had your own bolt.


No need for invasions of any sort, during the 1992 So. Central L.A. Riots, part of the problem of deploying the National Guard was govt had zero ammo and lock-out plates for the rifles(the Posse Commitaus Act forbades the miltary from having fully automatic weapons on soil USofA). The govt just couldn't go down to a gun store and buy some ammo, because it had to be "authorized" ammo. It took the govt a minimum of 24 hours to get the ammo and lock-out plates, and that was a costly delay.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 9:32:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By lippo:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
No ammo is stored at the armory. We draw ours from the nearest Federal facility as needed.




+1

Same thing when I was in.

If America was really whacked or was invaded by zomies, it would take at least 24 hours for the National Guard to be able to issue weapons to it's soldiers. We didn't even have the bolts for the weapons at the Armory. If someone stole an M16, the bolt wouldn't be in it, making it immediately ineffective, unless you had your own bolt.




Even with the Libtard definition of the 2nd amendment, you could make a case that this is against the constitution.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 9:33:16 AM EDT
Ready ammunition of the Swiss Army.

Every soldier equipped with the Sig 550 assault rifle is issued 50 rounds of ammunition in a sealed box, to be opened only upon alert. The ammunition is then loaded into magazines for use by the militiaman should any needs arise while he is en route to join his unit.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 9:34:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By weptek911:
IIRC on 9-11-01 we had four F-16's aloft , two of which were unarmed , protecting the whole country. I guess we haven't learned anything from Pearl Harbor, let alone 9-11.


I believe that F-16s from the VTANG were the first to arrive over NY on 9/11...they were most definitely armed.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 9:34:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By warlord:

Originally Posted By lippo:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
No ammo is stored at the armory. We draw ours from the nearest Federal facility as needed.



+1

Same thing when I was in.

If America was really whacked or was invaded by zomies, it would take at least 24 hours for the National Guard to be able to issue weapons to it's soldiers. We didn't even have the bolts for the weapons at the Armory. If someone stole an M16, the bolt wouldn't be in it, making it immediately ineffective, unless you had your own bolt.


No need for invasions of any sort, during the 1992 So. Central L.A. Riots, part of the problem of deploying the National Guard was govt had zero ammo and lock-out plates for the rifles(the Posse Commitaus Act forbades the miltary from having fully automatic weapons on soil USofA). The govt just couldn't go down to a gun store and buy some ammo, because it had to be "authorized" ammo. It took the govt a minimum of 24 hours to get the ammo and lock-out plates, and that was a costly delay.



I'd like you to point out where in the Posse Comitatus Act is anything relating to what weapons are allowed by the National Guard, acting under the authority of the Governor.

In fact the Posse Comitatus Act does not apply to the National Guard, while acting under the authority of the Governor, at all.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 9:35:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 9:39:51 AM EDT by pzjgr]

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By rebel_rifle:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
No ammo is stored at the armory. We draw ours from the nearest Federal facility Walmart as needed.




Fixed it for ya.


Uh, no. No non-.mil ammo allowed down a barrel of a military weapon. Years ago I bought a couple cases of 5.56 Black Hills ammo for a few of the guys to practice with because we couldn't get any ammo to practice with prior to qual, and they had a cow. Same thing happened a few years later when I wanted to get some practice in with M9s. As much as they talk about being able to get practice ammo in and all of that, its simply not available through channels ( which even when they tell you its available through channels, its a 2 year process to get it ), but they wont let you shoot non-mil stuff.



Shit, While the guard unit I was in was always able to get plenty of training ammo (although as tankers, we didn't need a whole lot of 5.56)...the ROTC Battalion I was in was always very short of blanks....usually 1 box of 20 issued to each cadet for a weekend FTX....which ain't shit.

So I used to order blanks 500 rounds at a time from a big ammo supplier (I forget the name, this was around '90-'91) and was always well prepared...our Company Commander was a LID Captain, he didn't care, he encouraged it....

ETA Oh, and whenever we needed live ammo or M-60's for FTX'x or live fires...we would draw them from the Masten Street Armory, which is where HHC, 127th Armor was located...so they had in house live weapons and ammo for sure...
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 9:44:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 9:44:53 AM EDT by Bohr_Adam]

Originally Posted By warlord:

Originally Posted By lippo:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
No ammo is stored at the armory. We draw ours from the nearest Federal facility as needed.



+1

Same thing when I was in.

If America was really whacked or was invaded by zomies, it would take at least 24 hours for the National Guard to be able to issue weapons to it's soldiers. We didn't even have the bolts for the weapons at the Armory. If someone stole an M16, the bolt wouldn't be in it, making it immediately ineffective, unless you had your own bolt.


No need for invasions of any sort, during the 1992 So. Central L.A. Riots, part of the problem of deploying the National Guard was govt had zero ammo and lock-out plates for the rifles(the Posse Commitaus Act forbades the miltary from having fully automatic weapons on soil USofA). The govt just couldn't go down to a gun store and buy some ammo, because it had to be "authorized" ammo. It took the govt a minimum of 24 hours to get the ammo and lock-out plates, and that was a costly delay.



WTF?

For a board that makes fun of the gun show commando "knowledge" - this place is starting to sound more and more like that.

The lock out plates had NOTHING to do with Posse Commitatus, Posse Commitatus does NOT effect the National Guard, and any private with a functional thumb could break off the lock out plates.

Link Posted: 4/10/2006 9:53:07 AM EDT
I had some punk kid that just transfered into my MP unit from Las Vegas and another MOS tell me that we were not allowed full auto weapons because we couldn't shoot US citizens with them. We were turning in some M16A2's we had just cleaned and after I got done laughing at him I gave him the following to consider:

1. Look into the Arms Room. See those racks of M249's, Mk19's and M2's? That rifle you just cleaned is auto too. What do you think three round burst is?

2. This is Texas and most of the guys in this unit are regular Police Officers of one variety or another. You try shooting a US citizen without some substantial justification and we'll shoot you.

3. Don't believe every bit of bullshit that you are told by a 55y.o. PAC or supply E5.

He described his last unit's M16's and how the selector was blocked off by some device. I picked up a TM and showed him the Riot Control attachment and told him we didn't stock those.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 9:56:45 AM EDT
From what i understand from a friend of mine that's in the guard, they are able to be ready and deployed anywhere in the state in less then 6 hours. That would intend that they have their ammo on hand. I know he has also said that their weapons are stored at their unit's location.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 9:59:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:

Originally Posted By warlord:

Originally Posted By lippo:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
No ammo is stored at the armory. We draw ours from the nearest Federal facility as needed.



+1

Same thing when I was in.

If America was really whacked or was invaded by zomies, it would take at least 24 hours for the National Guard to be able to issue weapons to it's soldiers. We didn't even have the bolts for the weapons at the Armory. If someone stole an M16, the bolt wouldn't be in it, making it immediately ineffective, unless you had your own bolt.


No need for invasions of any sort, during the 1992 So. Central L.A. Riots, part of the problem of deploying the National Guard was govt had zero ammo and lock-out plates for the rifles(the Posse Commitaus Act forbades the miltary from having fully automatic weapons on soil USofA). The govt just couldn't go down to a gun store and buy some ammo, because it had to be "authorized" ammo. It took the govt a minimum of 24 hours to get the ammo and lock-out plates, and that was a costly delay.



I'd like you to point out where in the Posse Comitatus Act is anything relating to what weapons are allowed by the National Guard, acting under the authority of the Governor.

In fact the Posse Comitatus Act does not apply to the National Guard, while acting under the authority of the Governor, at all.



Obviously, you need to put in some more time on internet gun boards. Everybody knows that under the Geneva Convention, the NG can go full auto, but only against materiel, so they shoot at the looters' crack pipes and zippers.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 10:03:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:

Originally Posted By warlord:

Originally Posted By lippo:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
No ammo is stored at the armory. We draw ours from the nearest Federal facility as needed.



+1

Same thing when I was in.

If America was really whacked or was invaded by zomies, it would take at least 24 hours for the National Guard to be able to issue weapons to it's soldiers. We didn't even have the bolts for the weapons at the Armory. If someone stole an M16, the bolt wouldn't be in it, making it immediately ineffective, unless you had your own bolt.


No need for invasions of any sort, during the 1992 So. Central L.A. Riots, part of the problem of deploying the National Guard was govt had zero ammo and lock-out plates for the rifles(the Posse Commitaus Act forbades the miltary from having fully automatic weapons on soil USofA). The govt just couldn't go down to a gun store and buy some ammo, because it had to be "authorized" ammo. It took the govt a minimum of 24 hours to get the ammo and lock-out plates, and that was a costly delay.



I'd like you to point out where in the Posse Comitatus Act is anything relating to what weapons are allowed by the National Guard, acting under the authority of the Governor.

In fact the Posse Comitatus Act does not apply to the National Guard, while acting under the authority of the Governor, at all.



Obviously, you need to put in some more time on internet gun boards. Everybody knows that under the Geneva Convention, the NG can go full auto, but only against materiel, so they shoot at the looters' crack pipes and zippers.



I thought that went without saying.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 10:31:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Smak101:
From what i understand from a friend of mine that's in the guard, they are able to be ready and deployed anywhere in the state in less then 6 hours. That would intend that they have their ammo on hand. I know he has also said that their weapons are stored at their unit's location.

Yes,some do some don't! Always saw M-16s,M-60s stored in the arms room(and I was an armorer,hated it,cause I was part of Supply Section),yes,there was usually one case of ammo,LOCKED in a box. Also,the bolts(# for each M-16/M-60)were also LOCKED in a strong box. M-16s and M-60s were locked in a rack(20,I think,been awhile! We had one supply SGT who could pick up a rack w/M-16s and load them onto a 5-ton).

We also had M-14s for the state NG target team(40 of them)quietly collecting dust.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 11:47:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 11:50:08 AM EDT by Garand_Shooter]
Every USAR center I have been in had enough to secure the center if need be while more was procured. In fact, weapons are not supposed to be transported without an armed escort at least in my RRC.

Not as much as I usually had rolling around loose in my trunk, but they do have ammo.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 6:13:11 PM EDT
In my Navy Reserve Units we had to procure our own ammo probably about 75% of the time. But that was in the 80's. Things started turning around in 89 for some units, and then the discussions in 90/91 made things easier to get to shoot.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 9:09:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By rebel_rifle:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
No ammo is stored at the armory. We draw ours from the nearest Federal facility Walmart as needed.




Fixed it for ya.


Uh, no. No non-.mil ammo allowed down a barrel of a military weapon. Years ago I bought a couple cases of 5.56 Black Hills ammo for a few of the guys to practice with because we couldn't get any ammo to practice with prior to qual, and they had a cow. Same thing happened a few years later when I wanted to get some practice in with M9s. As much as they talk about being able to get practice ammo in and all of that, its simply not available through channels ( which even when they tell you its available through channels, its a 2 year process to get it ), but they wont let you shoot non-mil stuff.




I recall being at the zero range in Ft. Hood one day. A bunch of Lt.s walked up and they were all carrying winchester white box that I'm assuming they got from Wally World. I remember seeing this with 9mm also.



-K
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 9:19:10 PM EDT
NG units are most definitely whipped in terms of ammo and readiness.

After 9/11, the checkpoint at our armory consisted of two Buck privates with M-16's and no ammo or magazines in site.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 9:40:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 9:41:18 PM EDT by Bohr_Adam]

Originally Posted By Silesius:
NG units are most definitely whipped in terms of ammo and readiness.

After 9/11, the checkpoint at our armory consisted of two Buck privates with M-16's and no ammo or magazines in site.



So far the pattern I'm seeing is this is a NY or CA thing. It might help us if you divulge the state to which you are referring.
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