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Posted: 4/6/2006 7:41:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 1:12:16 PM EDT by legalese77]
I recently had some work done on my very old house which is in desperate need of renovation. Specifically, I had a bathroom demo'd out to the studs and joists and had it completely overhauled. First, I'll post pictures taken of the bathroom before construction and redacted copies of the agreed upon work proposal.

For the poll: Given the before pictures and the bid presented, would you expect the floors and walls to be square, level and plumb or would you not expect it as it does not explicitly state such in the proposal.

If your answer is no to any or all of the questions, why not? How out of level or unsquare does something have to be to be unacceptable? Is 1/4 inch every 10 feet ok? what about 1/4 foot?

I have all sorts of in progress and post construction pictures to share if there is any interest.





BEFORE pictures







Link Posted: 4/6/2006 7:43:37 PM EDT
were there any illegal aliens on the construction crew?

they're just building the unlevel floors that americans won't!
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 7:44:18 PM EDT
good luck! i worked on a renovation for a buddy's house over the summer. total PITA, and everything was always behind schedule, over budget, and fucked up. just do the country a favor and don't hire any illegals, no matter how cheap they may be
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 7:45:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:
were there any illegal aliens on the construction crew?

they're just building the unlevel floors that americans won't!



No... all locals whose native tongue is American English.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 7:52:46 PM EDT
CLEAN YOUR LENS
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 7:53:18 PM EDT
No construction is ever perfect. That said, your sheetrock work looks pretty bad with lots of short edges, bowed ceiling, etc. etc.

If your ceiling and walls are bowed, it is not realistic to expect the sheetrock to be level and plumb, but it could look a lot better than it does. The proposal also talks about "prep" work on the walls and floors and this should include the work required to make the finish product look acceptable to the average person.

It isn't going to ever be perfect, but it should be better than it is.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 7:55:28 PM EDT
Down payment is too high,
1/3 down on signing = $1466.00
1/3 in the middle $1466.00
1/3 on completion $1468.00 = $4400.00

Also what are the shelves being made from?
You need to put a finer point on details.
you need to set a completion date and penalty of sorts if not completed by that date.
You need rethink every single contingency that could arise.
You need to protect yourself above all.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 7:57:53 PM EDT
Whoever is 'rocking the place must be smokin rock.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:00:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 11:06:35 AM EDT by legalese77]

Originally Posted By jrzy:
Also what are the shelves being made from?
You need to put a finer point on details.
you need to set a completion date and penalty of sorts if not completed by that date.
You need rethink every single contingency that could arise.
You need to protect yourself above all.



The job is already 'completed' It was 'finished' the day I was told it would be.

The shelves were to be of oak. They were never actually constructed. Ultimately, I bought two oak veneer linen cabinets to fill the space.

I'll get into that more later but for now, I want to know how level, square and plumb should I expect things to be given the before pictures and the bid.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:06:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2006 8:07:02 PM EDT by jrzy]
Did this guy tile over the 3/4 CDX?

Who's workmanship is this in the pics?
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:06:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By legalese77:

Originally Posted By jrzy:
Also what are the shelves being made from?
You need to put a finer point on details.
you need to set a completion date and penalty of sorts if not completed by that date.
You need rethink every single contingency that could arise.
You need to protect yourself above all.



The job is already 'completed' It was 'finished' the day I was told it would be.

The shelves were to be of oak. They were never actually constructed. Ultimately, I bought two oak veneer linen cabinets to fill the space....that is part of what brings about this little thread.

I'll get into that more later but for now, I want to know how level, square and plumb should I expect things to be given the before pictures and the bid.




How much beer did you buy the crew ? I'm serious, I used to work with my uncle (a general contractor) when I was in high school and most of those guys would do better work when they had a decent buzz. Downing a six pack during lunch hour was the norm. Motivation comes in many different forms.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:07:08 PM EDT
without specifying the type of materials, the quality of materials and the name brands of materials, you could have a house built with dollar store junk...our disability bath had to be completely done because the guy used crappy grout which discolored and flaked, he used poor caulk which came off in a week, he used plastic fittings which bent and broke when used and a counter top with knicks in it; We had to get our own fixtures and have the whole tile floor done over again...and the shower was too steep and small to use for a true disability shower.

don't be embarrassed to get specifics and exact types...

Once they are into the job they may want to start cutting corners to save money and you don't want them to be able to.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:10:59 PM EDT
this is something that you really can do on your own for a tenth of the price, that is if you have the time and desire. this is the kind of work i'm doing now, and you'd be suprised at how easy it really is. if you contract it, these guys will have it done inside of three days and leave you wondering...get other estimates!!! we bought this old house too.......and i'm still wondering,.....
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:11:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LANCEMAN:

Originally Posted By legalese77:

Originally Posted By jrzy:
Also what are the shelves being made from?
You need to put a finer point on details.
you need to set a completion date and penalty of sorts if not completed by that date.
You need rethink every single contingency that could arise.
You need to protect yourself above all.



The job is already 'completed' It was 'finished' the day I was told it would be.

The shelves were to be of oak. They were never actually constructed. Ultimately, I bought two oak veneer linen cabinets to fill the space....that is part of what brings about this little thread.

I'll get into that more later but for now, I want to know how level, square and plumb should I expect things to be given the before pictures and the bid.




How much beer did you buy the crew ? I'm serious, I used to work with my uncle (a general contractor) when I was in high school and most of those guys would do better work when they had a decent buzz. Downing a six pack during lunch hour was the norm. Motivation comes in many different forms.




Every crew that ever worked for me was sober or fired PERIOD!
A crew who drinks during working hours will put you out of business , either by Workman's comp suits or suing you and the company you own for allowing it.
These guys work more than 10 feet off the ground and work with power tools.
Who else thinks it's OK for the guys building your house to drink during the work day/
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:12:19 PM EDT
I do things myself, I learned to run wire,frame,insulate,hang drywall and mud and tape,install floors,windows,etc. because I refuse to pay anyone any money for almost anything,my basement cost me around $500. and yes it looks pro. This is no shot at you, I just believe in doing things myself and I get alot of satisfaction from it. Try it ,you might like it.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:14:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2006 8:21:26 PM EDT by legalese77]
These are before pictures. BEFORE any work started. I just what to know what one would expect as a result given the bid and this garbage to start with.

As far as doing it myself. It took a plumber, an electrician and 2-3 guys 8 full workdays and several partial days to complete the project. I could not have possibly put in full 8 hour days on the project nor could I have completed as much work per hour as they did. I would have been without bathing facilities potentially for months.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:18:18 PM EDT
Well that explains it,I thought this was the completed work,in which case I would refuse to pay,so how does it look now?
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:18:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By legalese77:
These are before pictures. BEFORE any work started. I just what to know what one would expect as a result given the bid and this garbage to start with.

I for one need the after pics in detail to give you an answer based on my expertise.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:18:54 PM EDT
I think if the contractor saw the before area, that he should have checked the walls and floor for plumb/level, and stated problems in his bid.

If you are expecting him to go into a house that on the whole is neither level nor plumb and frame/complete his work to perfection, it probably will not happen, besides, it would look funny.

On the other hand, if the walls and floors are decent to begin with, then all the new work should be also. I would never write plumb and level on a bid, it is implied and expected as industry standards to be built that way.

Referal, referal, referal.

Steven
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:21:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jrzy:

Originally Posted By LANCEMAN:

Originally Posted By legalese77:

Originally Posted By jrzy:
Also what are the shelves being made from?
You need to put a finer point on details.
you need to set a completion date and penalty of sorts if not completed by that date.
You need rethink every single contingency that could arise.
You need to protect yourself above all.



The job is already 'completed' It was 'finished' the day I was told it would be.

The shelves were to be of oak. They were never actually constructed. Ultimately, I bought two oak veneer linen cabinets to fill the space....that is part of what brings about this little thread.

I'll get into that more later but for now, I want to know how level, square and plumb should I expect things to be given the before pictures and the bid.




How much beer did you buy the crew ? I'm serious, I used to work with my uncle (a general contractor) when I was in high school and most of those guys would do better work when they had a decent buzz. Downing a six pack during lunch hour was the norm. Motivation comes in many different forms.




Every crew that ever worked for me was sober or fired PERIOD!
A crew who drinks during working hours will put you out of business , either by Workman's comp suits or suing you and the company you own for allowing it.
These guys work more than 10 feet off the ground and work with power tools.
Who else thinks it's OK for the guys building your house to drink during the work day/



Just relating an experience from the real world. I didn't even mention the roofers/framers who smoked weed all day or the other guys who could easily make the "Faces of Meth" pictorial. Thats what I remember from 10-15 years ago. I know a couple of guys who run various demolition/construction crews around here and it is all they can do to find people who will show up everyday, some have resorted to hiring questionable (illegal alien) help.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:23:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jrzy:

Originally Posted By legalese77:
These are before pictures. BEFORE any work started. I just what to know what one would expect as a result given the bid and this garbage to start with.

I for one need the after pics in detail to give you an answer based on my expertise.



It's not necessary to know what the finished product is to say what should be expected. That's what I wanna know. What is an appropriate expectation? You might gather that I am unsatisfied with the actual result.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:27:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By legalese77:

Originally Posted By jrzy:

Originally Posted By legalese77:
These are before pictures. BEFORE any work started. I just what to know what one would expect as a result given the bid and this garbage to start with.

I for one need the after pics in detail to give you an answer based on my expertise.



It's not necessary to know what the finished product is to say what should be expected. That's what I wanna know. What is an appropriate expectation? You might gather that I am unsatisfied with the actual result.



Yes it is from my point of view.
Never mind thats what i get for trying to help.

Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:33:01 PM EDT
if you insist:


the big picture:




Detail:

See how the linen cabinets set? The cabinets are true....wonder why they lean?




Hmmmmm....the problem? One corner, then the other...






Believe it or not, this cabinet is flush against the wall at the floor




Ummm, is grout supposed to have these little divots? And what are those scratches in the marble?





Here's a deeper scratch in the marble... wonder where the trim piece is?





a better view of that gem of a scratch...maybe brand new marble comes this way?




What about this way?





Hmmm, why are the wall tiles on the left longer than the ones on the right? It's almost as if the floor is crooked...




Strange that the vanity top penetrates the wall. What do I know about construction, though...as long as it's even, right?




hmmm, er, well... I'm sure they meant to do that





trash left on site


Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:37:07 PM EDT
Didn't mean to rant in your thread a little before, sorry about that.

I would expect things to be level, plumb and squared. There isn't much excuse if that is not the case. Most people I know in construction still take some sort of pride in their work because that means their reputation and future jobs. No excuse for things not being "right". I would get on the contractors ass to make it right on his dime.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:38:52 PM EDT
I think you should get a lawyer. That is unacceptable.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:41:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By legalese77:
if you insist:


the big picture:

i2.tinypic.com/t6t3te.jpg


Detail:

See how the linen cabinets set? The cabinets are true....wonder why they lean?

i2.tinypic.com/syugr4.jpg


Hmmmmm....the problem? One corner, then the other...

i2.tinypic.com/szu1iq.jpg
i2.tinypic.com/szu23a.jpg



Believe it or not, this cabinet is flush against the wall at the floor

img97.imageshack.us/img97/263/leaningtower4vl.jpg


Ummm, is grout supposed to have these little divots? And what are those scratches in the marble?

i2.tinypic.com/syugwk.jpg



Here's a deeper scratch in the marble... wonder where the trim piece is?

i2.tinypic.com/syuh45.jpg



a better view of that gem of a scratch...maybe brand new marble comes this way?

i2.tinypic.com/syui3t.jpg]


What about this way?

i2.tinypic.com/szu3ht.jpg



Hmmm, why are the wall tiles on the left longer than the ones on the right? It's almost as if the floor is crooked...

i2.tinypic.com/syui6g.jpg


Strange that the vanity top penetrates the wall. What do I know about construction, though...as long as it's even, right?

i2.tinypic.com/syujk7.jpg]


hmmm, er, well... I'm sure they meant to do that

i2.tinypic.com/syujqe.jpg



trash left on site

i2.tinypic.com/t6t4kz.jpg



That is one of the worst jobs I have ever seen. I have seen people on drugs and drunk do great work everyday of their lives, there is no excuse for that. I hope you plan legal action of some sort, that is unacceptable.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:41:34 PM EDT


The person taking on the job has a responsibility to inform you there are unforeseen add ons.
In this case Stevie Wonder could have foreseen the added cost and informed you the floors are not level and and the job needs to be done right "we need to level the floors first".
you have a cause of action and you might even be able to tap his insurance co for the added costs.
Incidentally the redo might exceed the initial costs.

Also the workmanship upon close inspection is fucked up.
The guy and or his crew are not craftsmen by a damn sight.

The money for the job $4400.00 is not much for that job if the job was done correctly but as it is it's not worth $400.00.

I hope I didn't offend you but you wanted and honest expert opinion and thats what I gave.

Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:42:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CRNUMBER:
I think you should get a lawyer. That is unacceptable.



+1 take more pcis too. They will help in court.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:43:31 PM EDT
I hate to ask this because I already know the answer but here goes:
Did you give him the final payment even after you saw this?
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:43:36 PM EDT
I wouldn't expect perfect on an old home unless I was paying plenty extra, but that's unnaceptable.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:45:37 PM EDT
Holy crap, when I said it would look funny I didn't mean THAT bad. That 'workmanship' is completely unacceptable. The Tile will have to come up and be replaced, and of course that means an almost total tear out.

The entire room/walls should have been furred out to allow for the settling of the old part of the house , was the house that bad to begin with?

Steven
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:52:40 PM EDT
That is the worst thing I've ever seen that someone paid money for.

Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:56:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2006 8:59:32 PM EDT by 19suburban96]
Cabinets should be level and plumb. They could have been shimmed to stand properly or scribed (cut to match the slope of the floor) to get them to sit properly. No excuse for scrathed marble floor. Their fault fully. Wall tile could have been cut neater along floor line to look more acceptable. The cultured marble vanity top could have been cut to fit the out of square opening. Additionally knowing the size of the top you had to install, the framing could have been adjusted to allow for a better fit. I could really tear this job apart but those are the main things that bother me right now. I've been building for coming on 30 years this june and it amazes me what people think is acceptable workmanship. I spent years learning to do jobs properly and watch assholes with no clue low bid jobs and screw people over. Sorry for your misfortune.


ETA
File a complaint with local BBB
File a complaint with state licensing agency
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:57:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
That is the worst thing I've ever seen that someone paid money for.




Heh, I will try to get the pics of the house the mexicans framed next to one of my specs. NONE of the valleys and hips ran parallel to each other. They ended up taking the entire roof off and started over. $$$$

Steven
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:58:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jrzy:
I hate to ask this because I already know the answer but here goes:
Did you give him the final payment even after you saw this?



+1
I would like to know as well.
James
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:59:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By schwindj:

Originally Posted By jrzy:
I hate to ask this because I already know the answer but here goes:
Did you give him the final payment even after you saw this?



+1
I would like to know as well.
James



I of course mean the job, not the comments in this thread.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 9:02:21 PM EDT
I, would.. NO wait, I won't say that.

I'd tell the... Damn it! No, no, not going there either.

Fuck, call a lawyer. Anyone who charges that much, and delivers such shitty work and doesn't have the decency to inform you that the workmanship is going to suffer due to structural shortcomings, if that is the case- just deserves a duck to take a giant dump on him and have to refund the entire project price. Yes, I said a duck!

If it was due to structural shortcomings, I'd expect to be made aware of the situation so that I could have the opportunity to have it done right THE FIRST TIME. This would obviously take more work and wages, but would negate the need for future teardown and correction or for me to be stuck with such a shit thundercloset.

To me, a true craftsman is a guy who does what he says he can do and gets it done right THE FIRST TIME. A craftsman may make an error here or there, say not understanding that something outside of his skills could effect his final product. But at that, they'd make it right.

Damn! You sir, hired yourself a CRAPsman; one who should never be allowed to remodel a Port-A-Potty let alone someone's bathroom to the tune of $4,000+ while using what I feel was not substandard cheap shit materials.

Whew, thank gawd I don't let other peoples' problems work me into a frenzy. That's me, always well detached from the situation.

Sly
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 9:06:41 PM EDT
That is fucking terrible work. That's so bad it looks like something I had done.


In most places, I believe small claims court goes to $5000. That might be your best bet, rather than paying a lawyer to sue them - and spend $4000 to TRY to get $4400 back from some asshole who will just refuse to pay anyway. At least in small claims court, your costs are pretty low, and so you're not out as much if the bastards refuse to pay.

Link Posted: 4/6/2006 9:11:49 PM EDT
Even if there were structural issues, they can be compensated for.

That is truly unacceptable. I really hope you didn't make final payment without a walkthrough.

Out of curiosity did you walkthrough at the end of each day and perhaps during the job? Some of those problems should have been evident prior to completion of the job....
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 9:12:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2006 9:17:11 PM EDT by jrzy]
This is one of the bathrooms I did in a house I did over in jersey.









This job done in red western cedar was about 12 K
I forgot the last pic for that bathroom LOL



Link Posted: 4/7/2006 6:06:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 6:31:45 AM EDT by legalese77]

Originally Posted By jrzy:

The person taking on the job has a responsibility to inform you there are unforeseen add ons.
In this case Stevie Wonder could have foreseen the added cost and informed you the floors are not level and and the job needs to be done right "we need to level the floors first".



I agree. It is obvious that a 100 y/o+ brick two story will not be particularly level or square. I have $5,500.00 in hardware, fixtures, tub, shower doors, etc in addition to the builder, electrician and plumber work. I can't imagine why he'd think I'd spend that many thousands of dollars only to do it half ass but I wouldn't spend a few hundred more to do it right. Had he said "for this money, I can't promise that everything will be real level or square. Such and such are the potential consequences." it might be a different story.

I NEVER set a budget for him. He is now claiming that leveling and squaring are extra and that he knew money was an issue. It didn't become an issue until I found out I needed half down. Even then all I said was "I need a couple of weeks to put that cash together" and in a couple of weeks, I had it.




Also the workmanship upon close inspection is fucked up.
The guy and or his crew are not craftsmen by a damn sight.



When I criticized the tile job he said "now you're just being nitpicky"

When I asked about the scratches, he first tried to blame me for damaging the tiles in transporting them from the store (so...your guys would install damaged tiles withhout bothering to mention it?)

When I told him that the scratched matched adjacent tiles and therefore the damage had to take place POST installation he tried to blame it on the plumber and electrician. I saw those guys working in their socks and they have worked for me before. They are both METICULOUS. It was not the plumber or electrician. Besides, the damage was there before they showed up the following Monday and Tuesday (builder finished last Friday) to do follow up work.




The money for the job $4400.00 is not much for that job if the job was done correctly but as it is it's not worth $400.00.



You have to remember, this isn't jersey. Things are much cheaper here. The average annual gross income for a full time employee is about 25k or so. The 2 story 5 bedroom brick with full basement on 7 acres and 5 dilapidated outbuildings cost a measly 85K.

Contractor proposal plus extras $4,750
Hardware, fixtures, etc. $5,500
Electrician $300
Plumber - still waiting on the bill...still doing some finish work and work elsewhere in the house.

Total without plumbing: $10,550 or 12% of the entire value of the real estate.



I hope I didn't offend you but you wanted and honest expert opinion and thats what I gave.



Not at all. I appreciate it.


Incidentally, there were $350.00 in extras. First on the invoice for 'extras'? Level the floor with lumber



Originally Posted By gaspain:

Originally Posted By CRNUMBER:
I think you should get a lawyer. That is unacceptable.



+1 take more pcis too. They will help in court.



I have lots more. I also took about 4 or 5 every day at the end of each work day. I'll post the rest as time permits.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 7:04:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 7:05:58 AM EDT by legalese77]
Pictures of bathroom at conclusion of work day 1





This is a closet door for the next room over. The backside of the closet abutted the bathroom. The closet was demo'd to make room for linen storage in the bathroom.



notice that much of the floor is out




Link Posted: 4/7/2006 7:09:21 AM EDT
legalese77
Did you see the bathroom pics I posted above?
That bathroom ran about 12 thousand dollars.
It has an oak vanity, custom oak large mirror, top of the line 4 x 7 Jacuzzi and red western cedar.
It has a low profile elongated bowl toilet.oak floors refinished.
Custom on job site built ladder staircase, cedar hatch.

Nothing but pure craftsmanship in that bathroom and every bit of molding in that bathroom is hand crafted by us, they don't make cedar molding, we made it.

I guess thats why I was always busy in jersey.
Good jobs for a fair amount.
That bathroom is about 5 years old, the cost of things go up, I'd say if I did that bathroom today it would be about 16 K and thats still cheap for that bathroom.

You need two things, you need an expert in remodel who is not going to be doing the work over so he has nothing to gain by testifying and you need estimates from contractors for the "redo"

In Court the impartiality of your expert goes a long way.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 7:12:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 7:12:57 AM EDT by jrzy]
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 7:17:18 AM EDT
The builder should have immediately noticed the existing walls were out of square and brought it to your attention. Houses do settle and there may be foundation problems to go with your out of square walls which should have been addressed first. Any good builder would have told you this. At the very least the walls should have been scabbed out to be level, not a difficult thing to do. I don't see him trying to make it right, considering he doesn't want to admit their even is a problem. A lawsuit is your only recourse at this point.

BTW we have been dealing with this problem too. My parents bought an 60yo farm house that was moved at one point with a poor foundation. We have had to get multiple builders to get it done right.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 7:22:33 AM EDT
lawyer up...



I am sorry that this happened to you.


it's hard to find good general contractors around here as well.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 7:26:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 7:53:42 AM EDT by BillofRights]
I have worked on old, crooked houses and can tell you that trying to get things square is frustrating. If you do make it plumb and square, it will Look crooked, compared to the rest of the house.

I can't give you an opinion on your job, because of this damned dialup. I'll try later.

OK, I had to take the time to look after the horrible reviews.

Well, it's not pretty. The open joints should have been caulked. Using large square tile on an out-of -square bathroom was not smart. Was that your choice, of theirs?

The scratched tile should be replaced if it will not "buff right out"

Overall, the worksmanship is not impressive. Very little pride in worksmanship

You bought the whole place for less than 85,000. Keep in mind, you can only polish a turd so much.

If you want that house to look nice, be prepared to get deeply involved and spend serious money. It might be cheaper to just demolish it and rebuild.

BTW, Your bathroom may be ugly, but I spent 3x more and would trade you straight up if I could.

Old house on 7 acres: 85,000
Substandard bathroom renevation: 4,400
Ability to shoot .22's in your backyard: Priceless
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 7:27:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 7:30:22 AM EDT by Cleatus]
looks like the sub floor was pretty torn up- that should have been removed and leveled and new sub flooring put down- this shoud have been a no-brainer. Walls are more difficult to square up, but not impossible and any contractor worth his salt would have at least attempted. Those cabinets are an abortion- F-that. I cannot believe they even remotely think thats ok. just garbage.

I am sorry, but I would consider a lawyer or at LEAST small claims.

I feel bad for ya. nothing worse than having a contractor not care.

Both my cement and wallboard contractors were teh suxxor- both left before fully completing the job.

Hint for EVERYONE- spell it out in writing every detail you can think of-no matter how small and dont pay sheet until its done and up to your total satisfaction.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:18:24 AM EDT
I don't know what to say here. This is my field (industry) and construction work should automatically be understood that it will installed plumb/level/straight and without damaged/defects to new materials. Trash should be hauled off the site and there should be a clean up daily and a major clean up when the job is done. I worked for a firm that specialized in Historic Restoration and have worked in old and older structures. Being an old structure is no excuse for out of plumb/level work. This is cause for non payment. I have to admit that I didn't read completely thru the thread but the photos speak for themselves. Take more photo's of the stuff if you plan on lawyering up. Make a CD. Just because they have a chainsaw in the back of their truck and chick running Microsoft Word doesn't make them a contractor. Did they have a set of drawings to go by? Or were they just working off of an idea?
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:27:19 AM EDT
That's why I do it myself. It's not about the money, it's about the result.


I would not pay them and I would take legal action against them. And I would take the money and a weeks vacation and do the job yourself.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:49:43 AM EDT
I'm a rank amateur and MY work beats that hands down.
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