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Posted: 4/4/2006 8:32:34 PM EDT
Always been curious as to when things went "on the record". I'm thinking that anything after the late 60's probably had some sort of documentation. Just curious for no reason whatsoever
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:33:55 PM EDT
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that all came about as a result of the 1968 GCA.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:42:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that all came about as a result of the 1968 GCA.



Federally yes, however in certain places (ie. Chicago) they had gun registration before that.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:48:20 PM EDT
There has been some sort of record keeping since the 1938 Federal Firearms Act. The bound book has been around since then. The only difference is that you could have interstate mail order sales before 1968, but the addresses sent to were logged in bound books.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:49:31 PM EDT
None, if you buy all your guns private party.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:49:45 PM EDT
Yeah '68 after the Kennedy assassinations is what I was thinking in regards to actual dealer records. Before that I doubt Sears and "JoeBob's Home Hardware" have anything that still exists.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:51:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LANCEMAN:
Yeah '68 after the Kennedy assassinations is what I was thinking in regards to actual dealer records. Before that I doubt Sears and "JoeBob's Home Hardware" have anything that still exists.

The FFA38 was somewhat effective though....they were able to trace Oswald's rifle all the way back to the importer. Still, I imagine the ATF got a lot stricter after the GCA68.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:52:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mgw1181:
There has been some sort of record keeping since the 1938 Federal Firearms Act. The bound book has been around since then. The only difference is that you could have interstate mail order sales before 1968, but the addresses sent to were logged in bound books.



Very interesting, thanks.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:53:58 PM EDT
I'm curious as to how the "forward trace" really works.

ATF can obviously trace a gun from the manufacturer, to the distributor, to the original FFL that sold it.

After that, it seems pretty iffy. Some guy buys a gun from his local FFL, then sells it on the internet. He ships it to an FFL in another state but doesn't keep any record of it. How is ATF going to trace it? Now imagine this gun passing through 5 or so owners. The chance of every one of them having record of who and where they sold it to is pretty slim.

Private sales are even more impossible to track, especially if there are no morons involved who want to make photocopies and/or bills of sale.

Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:58:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By STG77:
I'm curious as to how the "forward trace" really works.

ATF can obviously trace a gun from the manufacturer, to the distributor, to the original FFL that sold it.

After that, it seems pretty iffy. Some guy buys a gun from his local FFL, then sells it on the internet. He ships it to an FFL in another state but doesn't keep any record of it. How is ATF going to trace it? Now imagine this gun passing through 5 or so owners. The chance of every one of them having record of who and where they sold it to is pretty slim.

Private sales are even more impossible to track, especially if there are no morons involved who want to make photocopies and/or bills of sale.




That is what the ATF calls the "Gray area". In other words FTF sales. Their days are numbered IMO.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 9:09:00 PM EDT
When an FFL goes out of business do they turn their logs in to the BATFE?
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 9:16:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By triburst1:
When an FFL goes out of business do they turn their logs in to the BATFE?




yes except for C&Rs
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 9:21:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By triburst1:
When an FFL goes out of business do they turn their logs in to the BATFE?



Unless the logs have reached the expiration date, yes.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 9:21:38 PM EDT
I love having a C&R license, but if you look at it from the ATF's point of view they love it too. Think of all the "old" firearms (pre68) that are C&R. No record of a lot of those firearms exsist. Untill the cruffler logs it in to his bound book :(
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 9:22:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2006 9:23:19 PM EDT by Galland]
I've tried to get my mom to trade in her five shot .38 snubby for something nicer, but she will not do it. She values the lack of a paper trail above all other features. The gun was given to her by my grandfather. The idea that anyone could know what kind of guns she owns freaks her out. She has refused to get a concealed carry permit for the same reason. She thinks a cop might use her permit as an excuse to shoot her if she's ever pulled over.

Her fears are [mostly] unjustified, but I really can't blame her. She grew up in an era when serial numbers were merely a tool gun manufacturers used to keep track of inventory. And the cops and most politicians knew it was absolutely none of their business as to who owned what. Generations previous to mine enjoyed liberty and privacy to a degree that I suppose I'll never experience.

Galland
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 9:24:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By triburst1:
When an FFL goes out of business do they turn their logs in to the BATFE?



Unless the logs have reached the expiration date, yes.



I didn't know there was an expiration date. How long do they have to keep them?
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 9:27:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By triburst1:

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By triburst1:
When an FFL goes out of business do they turn their logs in to the BATFE?



Unless the logs have reached the expiration date, yes.



I didn't know there was an expiration date. How long do they have to keep them?



20 years IIRC.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 9:30:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 9:58:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Galland:
I've tried to get my mom to trade in her five shot .38 snubby for something nicer, but she will not do it. She values the lack of a paper trail above all other features. The gun was given to her by my grandfather. The idea that anyone could know what kind of guns she owns freaks her out. She has refused to get a concealed carry permit for the same reason. She thinks a cop might use her permit as an excuse to shoot her if she's ever pulled over.

Her fears are [mostly] unjustified, but I really can't blame her. She grew up in an era when serial numbers were merely a tool gun manufacturers used to keep track of inventory. And the cops and most politicians knew it was absolutely none of their business as to who owned what. Generations previous to mine enjoyed liberty and privacy to a degree that I suppose I'll never experience.

Galland



Nazis tattooed serial numbers on Jews to keep track of them.

Anytime government wants to keep track of something, it is time to be suspicious.
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