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Posted: 4/4/2006 7:39:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2006 9:50:39 PM EDT by Fly-Navy]
F/A-18F making a F-22 its bitch.

Link Posted: 4/4/2006 7:40:13 PM EDT
I hear tone....
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 7:40:46 PM EDT
bah! i reject your reality and maintain my own!
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 7:47:56 PM EDT
The planes are only good as the guys in the cockpit.

I am surprised they would let something like that out.

Kind of puts everything into perspective for the guys crying about retiring the F14.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 7:48:54 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 7:50:34 PM EDT
actually if you think about it, that's not really a bitch slap at all. the raptor is passing in front of the site, but it is not really a shootable angle. that's a split second of vulnerability right there
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 7:50:52 PM EDT
Is that X Box or X Box 2?
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 7:52:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2006 7:52:55 PM EDT by Fly-Navy]

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:
actually if you think about it, that's not really a bitch slap at all. the raptor is passing in front of the site, but it is not really a shootable angle. that's a split second of vulnerability right there



Shootable angle? It's called a snap-shot. It's a valid shot and it'll kill you. 20mm hurts. Most gun shots are snap shots, not tracking shots.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 7:53:26 PM EDT
The F-22a would have knocked the superbug out of the sky before it was in visual range, maybe as much as 150 miles out once we have the liscence to build the BAE ramjet powered Metor air to air missile, or 250 miles out once ATK has their Scramjet powered AAM in production. The key to winning air wars in the future will be AWACS and Space Based Radar covereage to use hypersonic missiles to knock down European and Chinese aircraft beyond the effective range of their IRST and LIDAR sensors.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 7:55:16 PM EDT
I'm sure the F-22 was unable to use it's radar, had one engine out and the pilot was drugged because we all know it's invisibile and invincible.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 7:55:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Armed_Scientist:
The F-22a would have knocked the superbug out of the sky before it was in visual range, maybe as much as 150 miles out once we have the liscence to build the BAE ramjet powered Metor air to air missile, or 250 miles out once ATK has their Scramjet powered AAM in production. The key to winning air wars in the future will be AWACS and Space Based Radar covereage to use hypersonic missiles to knock down European and Chinese aircraft beyond the effective range of their IRST and LIDAR sensors.



Most engagements are WVR. Visual ID is a must in today's environment. Though I don't know if the F-22 has a camera system or not like the F-14 had.

Space Based Radar. That sounds neat, never heard of that idea.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 7:57:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:
actually if you think about it, that's not really a bitch slap at all. the raptor is passing in front of the site, but it is not really a shootable angle. that's a split second of vulnerability right there



Um no.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:02:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FieroLoki:
I hear tone....



not with guns you don't.



what wierd situation, though. high aspect, low g, both a/c nose low at very low airspeed. almost like the raptor stalled out and gave the bug a nice snapshot opportunity. the raptor pilot is giving the bug a lot of turning room help, and no one can question the bug's low-speed nose authority. i'd love to see the acmi on that fight.

that said, however, i'd need to see a good, in-plane gun track from the elbow before i'd acknowledge that the bug was "making the -22 its bitch"
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:03:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sirensong:

Originally Posted By FieroLoki:
I hear tone....



not with guns you don't.



what wierd situation, though. high aspect, low g, both a/c nose low at very low airspeed. almost like the raptor stalled out and gave the bug a nice snapshot opportunity. the raptor pilot is giving the bug a lot of turning room help, and no one can question the bug's low-speed nose authority. i'd love to see the acmi on that fight.

that said, however, i'd need to see a good, in-plane gun track from the elbow before i'd acknowledge that the bug was "making the -22 its bitch"



Hell, I couldnt tell if it was guns, missle or marshmellows.... I still hear a damn tone someplace, brb...........
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:05:53 PM EDT
The GUN is Xed out on the HUD.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:07:13 PM EDT
I'm not an expert by any means...but I don't think that is a F-22. Look at the trailing edge of the wing, it looks more like an Eagle than a Raptor.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:08:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
The GUN is Xed out on the HUD.



So I was right?
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:11:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 275tv:
I'm not an expert by any means...but I don't think that is a F-22. Look at the trailing edge of the wing, it looks more like an Eagle than a Raptor.



looks like "they" got to the picture. now all i see is a red X
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:11:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Fly-Navy:

Originally Posted By Armed_Scientist:
The F-22a would have knocked the superbug out of the sky before it was in visual range, maybe as much as 150 miles out once we have the liscence to build the BAE ramjet powered Metor air to air missile, or 250 miles out once ATK has their Scramjet powered AAM in production. The key to winning air wars in the future will be AWACS and Space Based Radar covereage to use hypersonic missiles to knock down European and Chinese aircraft beyond the effective range of their IRST and LIDAR sensors.



Most engagements are WVR. Visual ID is a must in today's environment. Though I don't know if the F-22 has a camera system or not like the F-14 had.

Space Based Radar. That sounds neat, never heard of that idea.



Well the F-22a is designed to kick the door down so to speek with a near peer power (Read top of the line EU aircraft and integrated air defense systems or those of the near future chinese) as such I seriously doubt the ROE will call for visual ID, at least not in the first few days of the war. I think that BVR assasination of enemey aircrafts is the wave of the future. That being said, I'm still find it hard to belive that the a Raptor would be bested in a dogfight with a Super Hornet just for the sheer fact that the Raptors 2D trust vectoring should give it a major turning edge.

SBR is a Air Force program to replace or suplement AWACS with 24 hour coverage from space based milimeter to nanometer radar satilites in a low earth orbit constelation. Program specifics are sketchy as are all space aquisition programs but trust me when I say SBR will change the way we fight wars more so the GPS did.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:16:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Armed_Scientist:

Originally Posted By Fly-Navy:

Originally Posted By Armed_Scientist:
The F-22a would have knocked the superbug out of the sky before it was in visual range, maybe as much as 150 miles out once we have the liscence to build the BAE ramjet powered Metor air to air missile, or 250 miles out once ATK has their Scramjet powered AAM in production. The key to winning air wars in the future will be AWACS and Space Based Radar covereage to use hypersonic missiles to knock down European and Chinese aircraft beyond the effective range of their IRST and LIDAR sensors.



Most engagements are WVR. Visual ID is a must in today's environment. Though I don't know if the F-22 has a camera system or not like the F-14 had.

Space Based Radar. That sounds neat, never heard of that idea.



Well the F-22a is designed to kick the door down so to speek with a near peer power (Read top of the line EU aircraft and integrated air defense systems or those of the near future chinese) as such I seriously doubt the ROE will call for visual ID, at least not in the first few days of the war. I think that BVR assasination of enemey aircrafts is the wave of the future. That being said, I'm still find it hard to belive that the a Raptor would be bested in a dogfight with a Super Hornet just for the sheer fact that the Raptors 2D trust vectoring should give it a major turning edge.

SBR is a Air Force program to replace or suplement AWACS with 24 hour coverage from space based milimeter to nanometer radar satilites in a low earth orbit constelation. Program specifics are sketchy as are all space aquisition programs but trust me when I say SBR will change the way we fight wars more so the GPS did.



Lag time on that has got to be horrendous...

I'm rather cautious of anything that puts the radar set any further away than current AWACS...

Eventually you run into lag issues - radio waves only move so fast...
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:18:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
The GUN is Xed out on the HUD.



i may be incorrect, but i believe that the X is caused by either the lack of uploaded ammo (no round count indicator) or the master arm switch is set to off.

the gun is selected, as it is all gun symbology--LCOS reticle, reduced TD box (for declutter purposes), and last but not least, the fact that it says "gun" in the AA engagement mode spot.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:22:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 275tv:
I'm not an expert by any means...but I don't think that is a F-22. Look at the trailing edge of the wing, it looks more like an Eagle than a Raptor.



i thought the same at 1st, but look at the leading edge of the right intake--eagle's is square and further aft. could be mistaken about the aspect, and a lot of detail is lost in the hud clutter, but i'm pretty confident that it is a -22.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:22:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2006 8:25:04 PM EDT by Fly-Navy]

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
The GUN is Xed out on the HUD.



And it damn should be. Means the Master Arm is safed. The black square on the corner of the pic means the trigger is being pulled.

And it's an F-22 alright. Look at the shape of the wing and the intakes.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:23:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:

Originally Posted By 275tv:
I'm not an expert by any means...but I don't think that is a F-22. Look at the trailing edge of the wing, it looks more like an Eagle than a Raptor.



looks like "they" got to the picture. now all i see is a red X



My internet connection is being squirelly and that's run off my web server. I don't have another place to put it, so if someone wants to upload it to somehwere else I can redirect the link...
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:24:17 PM EDT
(Countdown to Andy) 5-4-3-2-1-.......
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:24:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sirensong:
what wierd situation, though. high aspect, low g, both a/c nose low at very low airspeed. almost like the raptor stalled out and gave the bug a nice snapshot opportunity. the raptor pilot is giving the bug a lot of turning room help, and no one can question the bug's low-speed nose authority. i'd love to see the acmi on that fight.



Not a weird situation at all... happens more than you'd think. Not all fights are high G, high speed.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:25:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By Armed_Scientist:

Originally Posted By Fly-Navy:

Originally Posted By Armed_Scientist:
The F-22a would have knocked the superbug out of the sky before it was in visual range, maybe as much as 150 miles out once we have the liscence to build the BAE ramjet powered Metor air to air missile, or 250 miles out once ATK has their Scramjet powered AAM in production. The key to winning air wars in the future will be AWACS and Space Based Radar covereage to use hypersonic missiles to knock down European and Chinese aircraft beyond the effective range of their IRST and LIDAR sensors.



Most engagements are WVR. Visual ID is a must in today's environment. Though I don't know if the F-22 has a camera system or not like the F-14 had.

Space Based Radar. That sounds neat, never heard of that idea.



Well the F-22a is designed to kick the door down so to speek with a near peer power (Read top of the line EU aircraft and integrated air defense systems or those of the near future chinese) as such I seriously doubt the ROE will call for visual ID, at least not in the first few days of the war. I think that BVR assasination of enemey aircrafts is the wave of the future. That being said, I'm still find it hard to belive that the a Raptor would be bested in a dogfight with a Super Hornet just for the sheer fact that the Raptors 2D trust vectoring should give it a major turning edge.

SBR is a Air Force program to replace or suplement AWACS with 24 hour coverage from space based milimeter to nanometer radar satilites in a low earth orbit constelation. Program specifics are sketchy as are all space aquisition programs but trust me when I say SBR will change the way we fight wars more so the GPS did.



Lag time on that has got to be horrendous...

I'm rather cautious of anything that puts the radar set any further away than current AWACS...

Eventually you run into lag issues - radio waves only move so fast...



Well IR laser links between the sats in the constelation and the Tsat constelation that will be up at that point (Tsat is replaceing the old MILSTAR constelation) giving us 100s or 1000s of times the bandwidth the military C3I network now uses, so time lags between command and control in the continental US and the sat should only be on the order of 50ms, and as far as info downlinked to F-22s, or QF-45s, or Superbugs or whatever toys we are playing with the data just has to be good enough to get our scram jet powered AAMs into with LIDAR distance of the target and then their onboard processors can do the rest.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:25:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2006 8:31:54 PM EDT by clement]

Originally Posted By 275tv:
I'm not an expert by any means...but I don't think that is a F-22. Look at the trailing edge of the wing, it looks more like an Eagle than a Raptor.



I was thinking the same, the picture isn't nearly good enough quality for me to ident that jet. Torwards the rear of the airplane where the back of the wing lines up with the tail looks more like an f-15 than an F-22 to me.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:26:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sirensong:

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
The GUN is Xed out on the HUD.



i may be incorrect, but i believe that the X is caused by either the lack of uploaded ammo (no round count indicator) or the master arm switch is set to off.

the gun is selected, as it is all gun symbology--LCOS reticle, reduced TD box (for declutter purposes), and last but not least, the fact that it says "gun" in the AA engagement mode spot.



It would probably look bad on a fitrep to shoot down an F-22. Maybe that's the tanker version of the F-22?
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:27:19 PM EDT
Eh, whatever. The Brewster Buffalo is really the best airplane of all time, but we just developed these new planes as sweethear business deals for lockheed martin...
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:27:30 PM EDT
15090 pounds of gas at 900 feet doing 200 +kia with a VVI of 210 feet per? in a hard right turn at 1100 Z or 2100 Z.

Close?
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:30:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KA3B:
15090 pounds of gas at 900 feet doing 200 +kia with a VVI of 210 feet per? in a hard right turn at 1100 Z or 2100 Z.

Close?



15090 feet of altitude, 900 feet of seperation, 183 knots, not sure what the 210V is (haven't been in the rhino yet), and yeah looks like 2100Z
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:31:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Eh, whatever. The Brewster Buffalo is really the best airplane of all time, but we just developed these new planes as sweethear business deals for lockheed martin...



THat was awesome
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:36:11 PM EDT
Yep, the F-22 is dead. The black square in the upper-left-hand corner is called a witness que, and shows on the HUD when the pilot presses the pickle button.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:36:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Fly-Navy:

Originally Posted By KA3B:
15090 pounds of gas at 900 feet doing 200 +kia with a VVI of 210 feet per? in a hard right turn at 1100 Z or 2100 Z.

Close?



15090 feet of altitude, 900 feet of seperation, 183 knots, not sure what the 210V is (haven't been in the rhino yet), and yeah looks like 2100Z



Good thing this was not a NATOPS quiz....
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:39:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:40:29 PM EDT
Tag


Hopefully you can get the picture to work...
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:44:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Fly-Navy:
Not a weird situation at all... happens more than you'd think. Not all fights are high G, high speed.



that's certainly true, but one would think that the -22 would stay out of the bug's best fight regime. what i was really talking about is the spatial relationship, and how they got there. set up the position with your hands, and you'll see what i mean.

it is almost a 90deg shot--the -22 is only adding 27kt to the closure rate, (so i was wrong when i said high-aspect) and his nose is much lower than the bug's, giving almost a full-planform shot. now that you've got the relationship set up, try to track it backwards to see where they were 2 sec ago. see what i mean? the -18's nose is translating right and slightly up, so there's a little backpressure and a good amount of rudder there. think about where the -22 had to be 2sec ago for that combination to yield a good solution. almost like he was giving even more turning room to the bug a second ago, and still hasn't really tried to cut down the angles.

perhaps i'm crazy, but it just looks odd to me.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:47:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Fly-Navy:

Originally Posted By KA3B:
15090 pounds of gas at 900 feet doing 200 +kia with a VVI of 210 feet per? in a hard right turn at 1100 Z or 2100 Z.

Close?



15090 feet of altitude, 900 feet of seperation, 183 knots, not sure what the 210V is (haven't been in the rhino yet), and yeah looks like 2100Z



VsubC, or closure rate.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:54:34 PM EDT
Pic seems to be down. Anyone have a copy they can throw onto imageshack or something?
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:54:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Fly-Navy:
F/A-18F making a F-22 its bitch.





I fail to see how a red x is capable of bitchslapping a F/A-22.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:55:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By distributor_of_pain:
www.schulseiten.de/hps/icantseeshit.PNG



+1
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 9:01:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2006 9:01:58 PM EDT by mmx1]
Giggity taggity. Just when I was entertaining thoughts of becoming a rotorhead.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 9:01:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By distributor_of_pain:
www.schulseiten.de/hps/icantseeshit.PNG



I’m sure it’s just the result of every foreign intelligence agency in the world attempting to download it at the same time….


Somewhere, a server made the old apple “eep” sound and burst into flames.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 10:11:58 PM EDT
Now that I can see it:

I'm not all that impressed.

So what?
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 10:33:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:
actually if you think about it, that's not really a bitch slap at all. the raptor is passing in front of the site, but it is not really a shootable angle. that's a split second of vulnerability right there



Aren't you supposed to be a fighter pilot gonna-be?
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 10:36:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:
actually if you think about it, that's not really a bitch slap at all. the raptor is passing in front of the site, but it is not really a shootable angle. that's a split second of vulnerability right there



Aren't you supposed to be a fighter pilot gonna-be?



Scary, ain't it?

Especially against an AIM-9X, that is definitely not a good place for the Raptor to be.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 10:36:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:
actually if you think about it, that's not really a bitch slap at all. the raptor is passing in front of the site, but it is not really a shootable angle. that's a split second of vulnerability right there



Aren't you supposed to be a fighter pilot gonna-be?



When would he have the time? 98% of his waking hours are dedicated to posting on ARFCOM.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 10:39:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tomislav:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:
actually if you think about it, that's not really a bitch slap at all. the raptor is passing in front of the site, but it is not really a shootable angle. that's a split second of vulnerability right there



Aren't you supposed to be a fighter pilot gonna-be?



Scary, ain't it?

Especially against an AIM-9X, that is definitely not a good place for the Raptor to be.



In that case, the Super Bug is in the same boat and low on E.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 10:48:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2006 11:05:13 PM EDT by Chairborne]

Originally Posted By ElCamino:
Now that I can see it:

I'm not all that impressed.

So what?



Some -18 jockey (from P-cola) with penis envy caught one on short final to Langley Tyndall or at an airshow. What kind of post stall maneuvering does the F/A-18 have? Oh, thats right, none, unlike the thrust vectoring F-22. I'll wait till some F-22s go to Red Flag and kick the shit out of 6 F/A-18s at a time to measure relative penis length.

ETA I thought about it a bit more.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 10:51:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Chairborne:

Originally Posted By ElCamino:
Now that I can see it:

I'm not all that impressed.

So what?



Some -18 jockey with penis envy caught one on short final to Langley or at an airshow. What kind of post stall maneuvering does the F/A-18 have? Oh, thats right, none, unlike the thrust vectoring F-22. I'll wait till some F-22s go to Red Flag and kick the shit out of 6 F/A-18s at a time to measure relative penis length.



+1
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