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Posted: 4/4/2006 4:36:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2006 4:37:41 PM EDT by migunner]
Some of you may know that I recently Used OC spray in a legally defense manner against an individual. I also have a ccw but was not carrying at the time, due to consuming alcohol. I'm starting to worry that the person(s) I OC sprayed may seek revenge and a confrontation could arise from this. They obviously know I have OC spray so I’m worried they may try and purchase some of their own and get me back. Hypothetically speaking if this person was to confront me or anyone for that matter was to confront me and threating with OC spray would I be justified in using deadly force. I know the threat of OC spray is on a different level then shooting them but I would be scared of being rendered disabled to the point that I may have my firearm taking away from me by the individual. Chances of anything like this happening are slim to none, but im just curious what peoples thoughts are on this. Thanks.

PS. For the ones who read my other thread I spoke to the detective today in depth about the incident and he thinks I should prosecute. I have not made up my mind. I would rather have the whole thing end now and be done with it.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 4:39:20 PM EDT
I dont think it would be.... But never know....
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 4:40:16 PM EDT
If he confronts and threatens you, spray him again but this time kick him in the nuts when he's down.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 4:40:31 PM EDT
walk around wearing swim goggles for the next few weeks.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 4:41:34 PM EDT
Look at it this way. When you sprayed the guy the other night, do you think he would have been justified in defending himself against your pepper spray by shooting you?
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 4:41:47 PM EDT
once you're incapicated, the perp can kill you and you wont have a way to resist to defend your life, he or she is taking away your right to self defense, shoot anyway.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 4:50:13 PM EDT
Get a pair of wiley X's XL-1's and wear em as tight as you can......


swim goggles are a good idea
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 4:51:50 PM EDT
He was the aggressor, so that’s not a fair scenario to think about he had a fucking dry wall saw. Yes I think if I was to go up to someone and use OC spray as an offensive weapon they would be justified to shoot me. Does that answer your
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 4:51:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By migunner:
Some of you may know that I recently Used OC spray in a legally defense manner against an individual. I also have a ccw but was not carrying at the time, due to consuming alcohol. I'm starting to worry that the person(s) I OC sprayed may seek revenge and a confrontation could arise from this. They obviously know I have OC spray so I’m worried they may try and purchase some of their own and get me back. Hypothetically speaking if this person was to confront me or anyone for that matter was to confront me and threating with OC spray would I be justified in using deadly force. I know the threat of OC spray is on a different level then shooting them but I would be scared of being rendered disabled to the point that I may have my firearm taking away from me by the individual. Chances of anything like this happening are slim to none, but im just curious what peoples thoughts are on this. Thanks.

PS. For the ones who read my other thread I spoke to the detective today in depth about the incident and he thinks I should prosecute. I have not made up my mind. I would rather have the whole thing end now and be done with it.



You damn well better if you are worried about it. This sounds like an episode of cops that can only get worse. He approaches you , yells "boo", you spray him (or pull a gun) and go to jail for assault. Only one way this story will end, and it's with a good butt rape for somebody.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 4:54:30 PM EDT
start spraying yourself with pepper spray. When you finally become amune to it, you can laugh and spray them again, and administer a swift kick in the nads.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 4:58:49 PM EDT
legally? I don't know
but if I get sprayed with it and am not attacking someone first I have to assume it's the first step in mugging/raping/killing me so as long as I can see halfway well enough to fire at the right person I'm shooting
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:01:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
once you're incapicated, the perp can kill you and you wont have a way to resist to defend your life, he or she is taking away your right to self defense, shoot anyway.



That is the way I see it as well.
If someone maced me, I would "be in fear for my life"
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:02:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2006 5:05:38 PM EDT by Treelo]

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
once you're incapicated, the perp can kill you and you wont have a way to resist to defend your life, he or she is taking away your right to self defense, shoot anyway.



This is why a lot of cops chose to get sprayed in training. It gives you something tangible in describing why you shot the person who attempted to pepper spray you. You would know first hand that if you were to get pepper sprayed, it would incapacitate you to the point that you would be unable to defend yourself. Attempt to pepper spray a cop, expect to get shot at. Attempt to pepper spray anyone with a gun, expect to get shot at.

Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:12:15 PM EDT
My brother and I were talking about this scenario awhile back. (He's a local cop)

He said his department authorizes the use of deadly force if an officer is maced/pepper sprayed.
I'm pretty sure this is fairly standard policy in most departments.

If you were assaulted or fear another confrontation, I'd either prosecute or seek a PFA order.
I think it's better to be pro-active and on the right side of the law.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:20:45 PM EDT
I feared for my life and I would like to speak with my attorney.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:43:19 PM EDT
i dont know, ive been hit with fox oc from a buddy and i dont think that i would be able to shoot shit afterward! i guess i might be able to open my eyes for a tenth of a second to get my bearings and then i might shoot in the general direction of anything that was shaped like people. I also agree with the statement that being sprayed by a civilian would imply deadly threat. I would think that anyone who randomly sprayed me on the street unprovoked would shortly follow it with the commission of a felony against me, ie. robbing me of the money that I don’t have, raping my hairy butt hole, stealing my truck, ect.
In all honesty though, i would press charges or get an order of protection just so you have documentation that puts the law on your side. If he does attack you again then you have documentation of a prior incident to show why you shot him.... alot!

But at this point i would imagine that hes a hot head scumbag whos already well known by the local authorities and they’re probably riding his ass after this one so i wouldnt expect him to come around looking around for you.

I live in a small town where every turdbag is on a first name basis with the cops and vice versa. If i see a crackhead breaking into my car and i have to beanbag them i would expect to be treated fairly favorably by the local authorities.

Just dont go out looking for trouble, by the general direction of your post it kinda sounds like you’re fantasizing about what you would do if you were confronted by this guy. If you’re looking for a fight then you’re probably going to be well prepared for it and use excessive force or over-react to the threat. Remember that there is a difference between being a responsible citizen and being a psycho whos actively looking for a gunfight. I carry an AR-15 carbine in my truck with 3 mags and ive had an opportunity to lawfully kill someone for Agg. assault on another person with a beer bottle. Instead of taking a once in a lifetime opportunity to kill someone i used the threat of force to deter him from stabbing the victim to death. If you know you can kill someone then that should be enough. The real determinate of a man is having enough restraint to reign yourself in by your own moral convictions regardless of what the law allows you to do!

anyone can be rambo and pull a trigger, it takes a mature, emotionally evolved man not too.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:46:52 PM EDT
I suggests hiding in your basement, until you find your man card.

What if he comes back.............................. What happened to him last time?

Next, your questions suppose the drunken doof remembers what happened, where it happened, and what you look like. All of which I have doubts about.

Next, man up, and decide if you want to prosecute or not. Then IMMEDIATELY let the police know. They have better things to do than hold your hand and whisper sweet nothings to you.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:50:40 PM EDT
If some bad guy did or tried to OC me. I will shoot him.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:58:42 PM EDT
yeah im not saying that im morally opposed to shooting people, but id like to avoid it if i can!
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 6:37:33 PM EDT
Does OC spray justify deadly force???

It all depends on the jury. This question will be asked: "What would a normal every day average person have done in the same situation?" If the jury, especially if it is liberal can answer "the sae thing", then the use of force was justified. A conservative jury will probably sway in your defense regardless.

At least... that is what we are taught in LEO training. Either wya, it is better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 6:41:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
If some bad guy did or tried to OC me. I will shoot him.

Yup..

Assault is assault.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 6:44:12 PM EDT
if an individual who has already threatened you with a deadly weapon (the saw) threatens you again with an incapacitating agent, you'd better believe that you should shoot BEFORE he sprays you. since there is already a police record of you being threatened by that individual you could make a pretty strong case that you feared what he would do AFTER you were incapicitated
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 6:50:13 PM EDT
You should definately prosecute.

If he tries to spray you and you light him up, tell the cops you though he had a can of ebola.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 6:57:28 PM EDT
Just go easy, bra.

Link Posted: 4/4/2006 7:10:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Silesius:
Just go easy, bra.

img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-3/963911/dog1.jpg



It's Brah...not bra. Damn Haoles.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 7:18:40 PM EDT
yeah really, go easy.

i think everyone here is flying off of the handly a bit and getting excited about you having the opportunity to shoot him. I would prosecute first and be vigilant of mind second.

If you see him on the street one day and he starts a confrontation with you and reaches into his pocket and you are within arms reach you should uppercut him the the schnozz,... hard!

If hes out of arms reach and he goes for his pocket you grab your shirt and prepare to draw, if he pulls out spray then you back pedal as fast as you can and try like hell to get out of the effective range of his pepper spray. If this works then you have avoided a situation that would involve the use of deadly force and proved that you and smarter and faster than him, the authorities will appreciate you for this. If you backpedal out of the effective range of his OC and he aggresses you with the OC you backpedal and verbally tell him that youre armed. If he gets within effective range then hes a dumbass and youre a fuckup for letting him get close enough to hurt you! This is when you draw your pistol and let him know that things are about to start sucking for the both of you majorly! If he continues to advance and actually manages to deploy the OC than hes either bulletproof, has a deathwish, is on drugs, or just really dumb. At this point then you would be morally justified in lighting his ass up with your .45. If you are well trained and about 15 ft. away then you should be able to get off a shot to center mast before the stream hits your face and takes effect. If that scenario actually played out fully like i described then you would be justified in shooting him and you could go to sleep at night feeling good about you actions.

If you do it any other way, regardless of wether or not you get no billed by a grand jury, you will have to carry the burden for the rest of your life of knowing that

YOU MURDERED A PERSON THAT COULD HAVE OTHERWISE LIVED! Im sure killing people is alot of fun but its the ultimate solution to a temporary threat. I put a great deal of value and weight in the worth of a human life, i love people, theyre unique, intelligent, creative, spiritual, ect. This guy might be an asshole to you but im sure he still has some redeeming qualitys as a human being and if you kill him youre going to make alot of people very sad and cut the life of an immature kid very short. Im sure that you could legally kill the kid if he confronted you again but i can assure you that it wont be worth proving your a badass. I wake up and go to sleep every day knowing in my mind that I can be a ravenous, rage infested, unstoppable, murderous badass and thats enough for me, i dont need to prove it to anyone else.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 7:21:01 PM EDT
Tag for more Mullet The Bounty Hunter Pics.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 7:30:16 PM EDT
Stock up on Fox Lab decon wipes.

Hope you guys resolve this matter like men (talking and emotionally getting over the incident) than like wannabee street punks (duelling out with OC cans and what nots)
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 7:39:39 PM EDT
yes
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 7:52:56 PM EDT
Heres a try. Stop using alcohol for a while and use Your CCW permit the way it was intended. Avoid areas where you may be confronted by said individual, put a restraining order against said individual (You know him and we know you know the individual ) Now since you are legally able to carry in your state and sinse the law knows you are legally able to carry in your state. It should be totally justifiable for you to stop the threat that could potentially gain access to your firearm should you be carrying at the time. Do yourself a favor and contact your county sheriff and tell them the details, I am sure they would point you in the right direction......
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