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Posted: 4/4/2006 1:47:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2006 1:48:48 PM EDT by The_Macallan]

Union Leaders Boo McCain on Immigration
Sen. John McCain threatened on Tuesday to cut short a speech to union leaders who booed his immigration views and later challenged his statements on organized labor and the Iraq war.

"If you like, I will leave," McCain told the AFL-CIO's Building and Construction Trades Department, pivoting briefly from the lectern. He returned to the microphone after the crowd quieted.
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Later, the senator outlined his position on the Senate immigration debate, saying tougher border enforcement must be accompanied by guest-worker provisions that give illegal immigrants a legal path toward citizenship.

Murmurs from the crowd turned to booing. "Pay a decent wage!" one audience member shouted.

"I've heard that statement before," McCain said before threatening to leave.
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The first questioner seemed to challenge his commitment to organized labor. When McCain started to praise a particular labor group in Arizona, the crowd booed again.

"Stop!" he said with a smile, drawing laughter from the crowd. "I surrender."

But he took more questions, including a pointed one on his immigration plan.

McCain responded by saying immigrants were taking jobs nobody else wanted. He offered anybody in the crowd $50 an hour to pick lettuce in Arizona.

Shouts of protest rose from the crowd, with some accepting McCain's job offer.

"I'll take it!" one man shouted.

McCain insisted none of them would do such menial labor for a complete season. "You can't do it, my friends."

Some in the crowd said they didn't appreciate McCain questioning their work ethic.

"I was impressed with his comedy routine and ability to tap dance without music. But I was impressed with nothing else about him," said John Wasniewski of Milwaukee. "He's supposed to be Mr. Straight Talk?"

Others said McCain showed some moxie, if not the best political judgment.

"Most of us don't agree with him on immigration, but I give him credit for trying," said Chris Schoenbeck of Milwaukee.
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This asshole needs to hear a LOT more boos everywhere he goes spewing that bullshit LIE about illegal aliens "doing the work that Americans won't".

Americans DID all these jobs before there were 10 million illegal immigrants here working for sub-minimum wage!

But now illegal aliens AND the employers that hire them are the ones keeping wages for these jobs far too low and THAT is a crime against ALL low-income Americans and HONEST immigrants!



Let McCain know what you think of his attitude towards American workers and how much disgust you have for him wanting to REWARD people who IGNORE the rule of law!

Sen. John McCain, R-AZ
DC (202) 224-2235
AZ (602) 952-2410

Link Posted: 4/4/2006 1:49:10 PM EDT
A democrat pissing off union workers, that can't do good for the democratic party.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 1:51:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2006 1:54:03 PM EDT by motown_steve]
This board questions union employee's work ethic everyday, now all of the sudden it's a big deal because McCain said something about illegals even though you all agree with it (businesses can find cheaper, more productive labor outside of the American workforce).

And everytime someone brings up the minimum wage around here they get flamed. You guys don't believe in the minimum wage remember? McCain sounds just like 75% of the people around here this time.

I can't jump on this bandwagon. Sorry.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 1:52:13 PM EDT
Idiot.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 1:52:29 PM EDT
lucky for us, i think this immigration thing will cost mccain any chance at being potus. notice how hitlery is keeping her yap shut for once in her fucking life. she knows that this is beyond a hot potato
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 1:53:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:
A democrat pissing off union workers, that can't do good for the democratic party.



agreed, I'm surprised the unions having been putting up with this shit from their masters for this long. I know a lot of solid union guys that are vehemently against any amnesty/guest worker program.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 1:54:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 1:55:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
Union Leaders Boo McCain on Immigration
McCain responded by saying immigrants were taking jobs nobody else wanted. He offered anybody in the crowd $50 an hour to pick lettuce in Arizona.

$50 an hour to pick lettuce? Shit I'll take that job right now
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 1:59:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
This board questions union employee's work ethic everyday, now all of the sudden it's a big deal because McCain said something you all agree with (businesses can find cheaper, more productive labor outside of the American workforce).

I can't jump on this bandwagon. Sorry.


Speaking only for myself, I don't question union employee's work ethic - I question their corrupt leadership's strongarm tactics in mandating union-membership as a work condition in many states.

Also, this story is significant because it's good to see McCain getting an earfull of boos direct from American workers (union or not).

That fucker needs to hear a LOT more venom and bile from American citizens - he applauds foreigners Aztlaners when THEY make noise (second post in that thread) but then he goes and insults AMERICANS when THEY get upset at having our nation handed over to mobs of foreigners marching under another nation's flag!



Link Posted: 4/4/2006 2:00:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:
A democrat pissing off union workers, that can't do good for the democratic party.




U.S. Senator John McCain (R-AZ)
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 2:01:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jrzy:

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:
A democrat pissing off union workers, that can't do good for the democratic party.




U.S. Senator John McCain (RINO-AZ)



fixed
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 2:01:54 PM EDT
McCain , and Cynthia Mckinney , can act as arrogant , and as snobbish as they want , both are protected under the criminal liberal media monopoly act
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 2:05:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
This board questions union employee's work ethic everyday, now all of the sudden it's a big deal because McCain said something you all agree with (businesses can find cheaper, more productive labor outside of the American workforce).

I can't jump on this bandwagon. Sorry.

I'm not at all sure this is meant to be union vs non-union.
McCain seemed to say that Americans in general cannot do the work.
See the switch? It isn't "that Americans won't do". It is "that Americans can't do". Nice, isn't it?



Everyone talks big on this issue, but the fact is that none of us would take a job picking lettuce unless we had no other choice. I have three sisters and one brother and I am the oldest. When I was growing up I worked at McDonald's, grocery stores, restraunts, I even washed dishes in a Chinese restraunt. I took any job I could find.

My sisters and my brother thought it was an insult to ask them to work at McDonald's or bus tables or shag carts at the grocery store. I have one sister who didn't work until she was 19 because she wasn't going to take "some scrub job". You think these kids today are going to pick lettuce and clean hotel rooms for $3 an hour?

I'm not for illegal immigration, but I'm not against immigration. The fact is that there are jobs that American's don't want and the mexicans are happy to take them. Let them come here legally, pay them $3 an hour (after all, they aren't citizens) and that'll be that.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 2:09:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 2:15:51 PM EDT
.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 2:16:54 PM EDT
I'm an engineer. I don't make $50/hr.

Fuckin' A I'd pick lettuce for $50/hr.

But no one would pay that because lettuce would be $50 a HEAD, and the market for salads would dry right up.

McCain is a self-important arrogant asshole and needs to go.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 2:22:48 PM EDT
shit, if lettuce-picking were unionized they'd demand that the lettuce be grown at a waist-high level in air conditioned comfort. Even then, half of it would rot before it was picked.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 2:23:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
This board questions union employee's work ethic everyday, now all of the sudden it's a big deal because McCain said something you all agree with (businesses can find cheaper, more productive labor outside of the American workforce).

I can't jump on this bandwagon. Sorry.

I'm not at all sure this is meant to be union vs non-union.
McCain seemed to say that Americans in general cannot do the work.
See the switch? It isn't "that Americans won't do". It is "that Americans can't do". Nice, isn't it?



Everyone talks big on this issue, but the fact is that none of us would take a job picking lettuce unless we had no other choice. I have three sisters and one brother and I am the oldest. When I was growing up I worked at McDonald's, grocery stores, restraunts, I even washed dishes in a Chinese restraunt. I took any job I could find.

My sisters and my brother thought it was an insult to ask them to work at McDonald's or bus tables or shag carts at the grocery store. I have one sister who didn't work until she was 19 because she wasn't going to take "some scrub job". You think these kids today are going to pick lettuce and clean hotel rooms for $3 an hour?

I'm not for illegal immigration, but I'm not against immigration. The fact is that there are jobs that American's don't want and the mexicans are happy to take them. Let them come here legally, pay them $3 an hour (after all, they aren't citizens) and that'll be that.

I know that, but you missed the bait and switch.
The case for illegal immigration has been substantially strengthened with one word: can't.
Instead of it being an issue of simple will, it is now an argument of American inability.
Which makes it an argument for Mexican superiority.



Well, anyone who isn't crippled and stoop over and pick a head of lettuce.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 2:24:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
I know that, but you missed the bait and switch.
The case for illegal immigration has been substantially strengthened with one word: can't.
Instead of it being an issue of simple will, it is now an argument of American inability.
Which makes it an argument for Mexican superiority.


So what? Let's say, for the sake of argument, that Mexican's are better at unskilled manual labor. Good for them. Is it not enough that Americans are the best engineers, doctors, and scientists, but we have to be the best shit-slingers, ditch diggers, and produce pickers, too?

Let them have it...
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 2:27:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
shit, if lettuce-picking were unionized they'd demand that the lettuce be grown at a waist-high level in air conditioned comfort. Even then, half of it would rot before it was picked.



Ouch.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 2:30:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 2:31:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KBaker:
I'm an engineer. I don't make $50/hr.

Fuckin' A I'd pick lettuce for $50/hr.

But no one would pay that because lettuce would be $50 a HEAD, and the market for salads would dry right up.

McCain is a self-important arrogant asshole and needs to go.



Long before lettuce got to $50 a head someone would invent a machine to pick the lettuce. The drivers of the machines would probably get $50/hr.


Heck for $50/head you could probably build refrigerated greenhouses in mexico, grow lettuce, hand pick it, and Fed Ex it directly to your door.

Link Posted: 4/4/2006 2:31:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:
lucky for us, i think this immigration thing will cost mccain any chance at being potus. notice how hitlery is keeping her yap shut for once in her fucking life. she knows that this is beyond a hot potato




She's still hurting from her earlier flap when she claimed Jesus wants illegal immigrants to come here.

What a hypocrite, first she's pretending that she is in "the middle" of politics. Now she is invoking religion to justify illegal migration after liberals like herself are trying to drive religion out of politics.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 2:34:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 2:36:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
... The fact is that there are jobs that American's don't want and the mexicans are happy to take them. ...


I absolutely agree.

Still, illegal immigration issues go far beyond that.

What also worries me is that illegals here in the States are taking low-paying, menial jobs that Americans don’t want, while increasingly the high-end technical jobs are going overseas. At what point are US citizens going to find that there are no jobs for them?
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 2:40:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 2:42:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Big_Bear:

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
shit, if lettuce-picking were unionized they'd demand that the lettuce be grown at a waist-high level in air conditioned comfort. Even then, half of it would rot before it was picked.


Never heard of United Farm Workers?



there are about 27,000 UFW members. I've seen about that many immigrants in a single convoy of buses to pick a single grower's trees.

UFW has organized a trivial amount of farm workers
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 2:43:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jrzy:

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:
A democrat pissing off union workers, that can't do good for the democratic party.




U.S. Senator John McCain (R-AZ)



McCain quit being a republican a long time ago my friend....

Link Posted: 4/4/2006 2:46:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 199:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
... The fact is that there are jobs that American's don't want and the mexicans are happy to take them. ...


I absolutely agree.

Still, illegal immigration issues go far beyond that.

What also worries me is that illegals here in the States are taking low-paying, menial jobs that Americans don’t want, while increasingly the high-end technical jobs are going overseas. At what point are US citizens going to find that there are no jobs for them?



I know what you are saying, but the ship has sailed on outsourcing, and offshore manufacturing, and unskilled menial jobs. Businesses have found out that they can get people to do the work for less money, and there is no putting the genie back into the bottle. Middle class American's are going to have to reduce their quality of life so that they can compete with the slave wages that big businesses are paying to send our jobs elsewhere.

It's the dark side of lassie faire capitalism. It'll cost us our standard of living and our country but it'll be good for business.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 2:46:25 PM EDT
If McCain bombs out in the next primary and drops out of political life, that is fine by me.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 2:55:49 PM EDT
I would pick lettuce, for $30.00 an hour. That’s only 50 cents a minute, if I could only pick two heads of lettuce a minute the cost of lettuce would only go up 25 cents a head. But, there would probably be a bunch of people willing to do it for $20.00 an hour, or even $15.00.

Americans will do any job out there. We just won’t do it for the shit wages some people are willing to pay.

See, somewhere along the line people got it in their heads that people with an education should make more than those without an education. If those people had bothered to actually learn some economics they would know that your education level should have nothing to do with how much you make.

Your pay should be based on supply and demand.

But there are a lot of people who just don’t get that little fact. They think that hard unskilled work is somehow worth less than easy skilled work. Well, when you have a surplus of unskilled laborers and a shortage of educated people that is true. But then you go and shove an edumacation down everyone’s throat and all of a sudden you have a surplus of educated people. Demand for unskilled labor rises above supply.

Wages should rise through the roof for unskilled labor… But they didn’t. Instead businesses just imported (legally and illegally) swarms of people from third world countries to “do the work that Americans wouldn’t do anymore.”

Well now America is full up and we are losing the frickin culture. Within a decades we will likely see violent immigrant uprisings in this country because of what we’ve allowed to happen.

Enough is enough…

We need to seal off the borders and kick all the illegal aliens out. The legal immigrants will assimilate, especially if we stop pandering to their unwillingness to become Americanized.

Businesses need to be told that market forces (not the Government) are going to force them to pay higher wages to their laborers. It might work out that structural engineers and architects will end up getting paid less than the guy roofing the building. If marked forces dictate that then it’s what should happen. If the college boys don’t like it they can get up on the roof in the sun and start hammering nails.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 2:58:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Thuban:
I would pick lettuce, for $30.00 an hour. That’s only 50 cents a minute, if I could only pick two heads of lettuce a minute the cost of lettuce would only go up 25 cents a head. But, there would probably be a bunch of people willing to do it for $20.00 an hour, or even $15.00.

Americans will do any job out there. We just won’t do it for the shit wages some people are willing to pay.

See, somewhere along the line people got it in their heads that people with an education should make more than those without an education. If those people had bothered to actually learn some economics they would know that your education level should have nothing to do with how much you make.

Your pay should be based on supply and demand.

But there are a lot of people who just don’t get that little fact. They think that hard unskilled work is somehow worth less than easy skilled work. Well, when you have a surplus of unskilled laborers and a shortage of educated people that is true. But then you go and shove an edumacation down everyone’s throat and all of a sudden you have a surplus of educated people. Demand for unskilled labor rises above supply.

Wages should rise through the roof for unskilled labor… But they didn’t. Instead businesses just imported (legally and illegally) swarms of people from third world countries to “do the work that Americans wouldn’t do anymore.”

Well now America is full up and we are losing the frickin culture. Within a decades we will likely see violent immigrant uprisings in this country because of what we’ve allowed to happen.

Enough is enough…

We need to seal off the borders and kick all the illegal aliens out. The legal immigrants will assimilate, especially if we stop pandering to their unwillingness to become Americanized.

Businesses need to be told that market forces (not the Government) are going to force them to pay higher wages to their laborers. It might work out that structural engineers and architects will end up getting paid less than the guy roofing the building. If marked forces dictate that then it’s what should happen. If the college boys don’t like it they can get up on the roof in the sun and start hammering nails.



you forgot another important thing. partly because of this illegal immigration bullshit, it's almost impossible to make it with just a high school education, and without a high school education, forget it. used to be that if you went to college you were the exception. now a bachelors degree is expected for anything. if there were more, better paying entry level jobs, than american kids wouldnt be forced to start life at the bottom $30k in debt because they were forced to go to college.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 2:59:05 PM EDT
Holy shit... for $50/hour I'd X-ray 830LB women all day with minimal insults/complaints!

No joke!
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 2:59:37 PM EDT
In high school I haled hay for $5 an hour and shovled chicken manure for $3.50. Lettuce can not be much harder than trowing 40-60lbs bails in South Texas during summer. For what it is worth, both jobs were done with fully american crews.

If today's youth is so lazy that they would not work for considerable more than I am making behind this computer - then we deserve to be conquered (if nothing else but for bad parenting) - otherwise McCane can go to hell.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 3:18:18 PM EDT


If the .gov sharply curtailed handouts to the able bodied, there would be plenty of hungry Americans available and willing to pick lettuce.

If you pay folks to sit inside their air conditioned, federally subsidized housing, watching cable TV, eating free/cheap food and getting free health care... why is anyone be surprised they don't want to work?

Fast forward 2 or 3 years...... who will do the jobs the mexicans won't do because they're legal and get all the free stuff?


Link Posted: 4/4/2006 3:25:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:

Originally Posted By Thuban:
I would pick lettuce, for $30.00 an hour. That’s only 50 cents a minute, if I could only pick two heads of lettuce a minute the cost of lettuce would only go up 25 cents a head. But, there would probably be a bunch of people willing to do it for $20.00 an hour, or even $15.00.

Americans will do any job out there. We just won’t do it for the shit wages some people are willing to pay.

See, somewhere along the line people got it in their heads that people with an education should make more than those without an education. If those people had bothered to actually learn some economics they would know that your education level should have nothing to do with how much you make.

Your pay should be based on supply and demand.

But there are a lot of people who just don’t get that little fact. They think that hard unskilled work is somehow worth less than easy skilled work. Well, when you have a surplus of unskilled laborers and a shortage of educated people that is true. But then you go and shove an edumacation down everyone’s throat and all of a sudden you have a surplus of educated people. Demand for unskilled labor rises above supply.

Wages should rise through the roof for unskilled labor… But they didn’t. Instead businesses just imported (legally and illegally) swarms of people from third world countries to “do the work that Americans wouldn’t do anymore.”

Well now America is full up and we are losing the frickin culture. Within a decades we will likely see violent immigrant uprisings in this country because of what we’ve allowed to happen.

Enough is enough…

We need to seal off the borders and kick all the illegal aliens out. The legal immigrants will assimilate, especially if we stop pandering to their unwillingness to become Americanized.

Businesses need to be told that market forces (not the Government) are going to force them to pay higher wages to their laborers. It might work out that structural engineers and architects will end up getting paid less than the guy roofing the building. If marked forces dictate that then it’s what should happen. If the college boys don’t like it they can get up on the roof in the sun and start hammering nails.



you forgot another important thing. partly because of this illegal immigration bullshit, it's almost impossible to make it with just a high school education, and without a high school education, forget it. used to be that if you went to college you were the exception. now a bachelors degree is expected for anything. if there were more, better paying entry level jobs, than american kids wouldnt be forced to start life at the bottom $30k in debt because they were forced to go to college.



That's not true. That's what you've been told, but that's not true at all. I don't have a college degree and I do very well.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 3:28:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:

Originally Posted By jrzy:

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:
A democrat pissing off union workers, that can't do good for the democratic party.




U.S. Senator John McCain (R-AZ)



McCain quit being a republican a long time ago my friend....




Hell, the dims didn't even run against him in the last election. I think I saw only one sign.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 3:42:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bubbatheredneck:

If the .gov sharply curtailed handouts to the able bodied, there would be plenty of hungry Americans available and willing to pick lettuce.

If you pay folks to sit inside their air conditioned, federally subsidized housing, watching cable TV, eating free/cheap food and getting free health care... why is anyone be surprised they don't want to work?

Fast forward 2 or 3 years...... who will do the jobs the mexicans won't do because they're legal and get all the free stuff?




The next wave of illegals. It's a never ending cycle, a PC version of slavery with the prospect of emancipation and an endless "need" for new third world workers to do what the last crop is too Americanized to do. [Mind of Mencia] Addicted to oil my ass! We're addicted to beaners! [/Mind of Mencia]

Link Posted: 4/4/2006 4:15:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
Do we need to throw away our laws because we need the labor? That's the argument that McCain is making.


I disagree with that. I was commenting on your statement about the superiority of Mexicans when it comes to manual labor.

I'm trying to figure out why this issue is hard:

1) Close border. I don't care if it takes 200,000 USBP agents. Do it.
2) Psuedo-amnesty for the people here. If you have a job, you get to stay. Sign on the dotted line, we "know" where you are.
3) Everyone else, gets deported.

Worst case scenario, we have 11 million new welfare queens, which we would have had anyhow.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 1:24:34 PM EDT
Someone should offer McCain $50/hour to shut the fuck up.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 3:25:11 PM EDT
Hell - I agree with McCain on this one. I doubt you will find any union worker keeping pace with a mexican in a field pulling carrots and shit.

This thread might have more creditability if it wasnt using the context of him taking to the AFLCIO - if the mexicans promote artificually low wages, unions promote artificially high wages, often with substandard quality and quantity.

Not to say all Union workers are lazy. The ones that are lean on the ones that want to actually work as to not screw up the bell curve of expectations.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 3:31:48 PM EDT
Tag.



-K
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 3:35:06 PM EDT
1. McCain is the worst kind of hypocrit.

2. He's probably right in this instance nevertheless.

3. It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy when he pisses off his power-base.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 3:46:54 PM EDT
I find it absolutely hilarious that those guys said they'd take a job
packing lettuce.

I picked tobacco in NC around Wilson when I was growing up
for one harvest
and that was enough to make me realize I better find another
way of makeing a living.

I'd pay to see some spoiled Teamster or
IAAMAW worker pick tobbacco for one day DAY,
not to mention a harvest.

They'd be screaming for a rep within an hour.

I'd LOVE to see them work on a shrimp boat
based out of Otway, Stacy, Davis, Sealevel, Ceader Island or anywhere east of
Beaufort, NC.

Very few Union people have any conception of "work" as
many of us know it.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 3:53:02 PM EDT
Well, that puts McCain right in there with Bush Senior and his marveling over the scanners at the grocery store.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 3:55:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
This board questions union employee's work ethic everyday, now all of the sudden it's a big deal because McCain said something about illegals even though you all agree with it (businesses can find cheaper, more productive labor outside of the American workforce).

And everytime someone brings up the minimum wage around here they get flamed. You guys don't believe in the minimum wage remember? McCain sounds just like 75% of the people around here this time.

I can't jump on this bandwagon. Sorry.



You need to work on your reading comprehension. McCain said that American's can't do field labor; that we won't do it even for $50/hr.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 4:06:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2006 4:06:52 PM EDT by gus]
I am definately not a McCain fan, but having spent one summer picking blue berries in Maine as a teen, and having lived in Az while in college, I can assure you that the average union (or non-union) worker today wouldn't last more than one day picking lettuce in Arizona. The average American would have a friggin heart attack or heat stroke. It would take time to build up to those conditions, and that's for an otherwise healthy person. Not a slam on Americans (I'm a proud one), just pointing out that we have been largely softened up as a people, me included.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 4:08:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Everyone talks big on this issue, but the fact is that none of us would take a job picking lettuce unless we had no other choice. I have three sisters and one brother and I am the oldest. When I was growing up I worked at McDonald's, grocery stores, restraunts, I even washed dishes in a Chinese restraunt. I took any job I could find.



For $50/hr, I'd take a job picking lettuce (assuming current levels of inflation).


Originally Posted By motown_steve:
My sisters and my brother thought it was an insult to ask them to work at McDonald's or bus tables or shag carts at the grocery store. I have one sister who didn't work until she was 19 because she wasn't going to take "some scrub job". You think these kids today are going to pick lettuce and clean hotel rooms for $3 an hour?



Depends on economic circumstances. Other circumstances dictated that children work in factories. And they did. And it wasn't really the government that ended that: it was increased wealth and changing economic circumstances.

People quickly go about what needs to be done. They can handle very difficult situations, then adjust to much easier situtations as times change.


Originally Posted By motown_steve:
I'm not for illegal immigration, but I'm not against immigration. The fact is that there are jobs that American's don't want and the mexicans are happy to take them. Let them come here legally, pay them $3 an hour (after all, they aren't citizens) and that'll be that.




No minimum wage? Won't the world end?

Actually, allowing non-citizens the chance to work for below minimum wage would give them a significant advantage in the workplace. Don't tell any unions guys about this plan. They would display your head on a pike.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 4:11:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By 199:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
... The fact is that there are jobs that American's don't want and the mexicans are happy to take them. ...


I absolutely agree.

Still, illegal immigration issues go far beyond that.

What also worries me is that illegals here in the States are taking low-paying, menial jobs that Americans don’t want, while increasingly the high-end technical jobs are going overseas. At what point are US citizens going to find that there are no jobs for them?



I know what you are saying, but the ship has sailed on outsourcing, and offshore manufacturing, and unskilled menial jobs. Businesses have found out that they can get people to do the work for less money, and there is no putting the genie back into the bottle. Middle class American's are going to have to reduce their quality of life so that they can compete with the slave wages that big businesses are paying to send our jobs elsewhere.

It's the dark side of lassie faire capitalism. It'll cost us our standard of living and our country but it'll be good for business.



Lassie faire capitalism is responsible for the success of this nation. The nations of Latin America, France, Germany, etc., all suffer proportionally to their lack of lassie faire capitalism.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 4:14:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mister44:
Hell - I agree with McCain on this one. I doubt you will find any union worker keeping pace with a mexican in a field pulling carrots and shit.

This thread might have more creditability if it wasnt using the context of him taking to the AFLCIO - if the mexicans promote artificually low wages, unions promote artificially high wages, often with substandard quality and quantity.

Not to say all Union workers are lazy. The ones that are lean on the ones that want to actually work as to not screw up the bell curve of expectations.



The problem isn't the union workers so much as it is the union itself. Take the workers out of the union and most of them will quickly shape up.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 4:31:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gus:
I am definately not a McCain fan, but having spent one summer picking blue berries in Maine as a teen, and having lived in Az while in college, I can assure you that the average union (or non-union) worker today wouldn't last more than one day picking lettuce in Arizona. The average American would have a friggin heart attack or heat stroke. It would take time to build up to those conditions, and that's for an otherwise healthy person. Not a slam on Americans (I'm a proud one), just pointing out that we have been largely softened up as a people, me included.




C'mon now it's not like those lettuce pickers are coming from the famed lettuce picker conditioning camps south of the border. Willing to suffer yes. Healthier or more physically capable I doubt it.

Those crappy jobs we did in our youth motivated us to get educations so we'd never have to do them again.
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