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Posted: 4/4/2006 7:18:25 AM EDT
i got into an argument with one of my libtard friends today regarding our troops and their body armor. he is of the position that our guys do not have armor, and those that do bought it out of pocket. I told him that everyone who is/was in harms way since the start of the war has been issued body armor, and personally procured items were additional to what they had already been issued. the debate over body armor has been about NEW armor vs OLD armor, not a matter of have or have not.

can anyone back me up, preferably with documentation? He buys into media bullshit, so a news article or something validating my claim will do.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 7:21:08 AM EDT
You're both right in a way.

Not all military personal have had body armor since the START of the war. When I was over there in March of '03, the only armor we had were the flak vests, and those won't stop bullets, just sharpnel.
However, there was a major effort and all troops now have body armor. We got our set of body armor in July of '03.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 7:21:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2006 7:22:33 AM EDT by Ring]
every troop has and has had armor when they left, the argument is do they have "this years armor or last years model"

hard plates are optional
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 7:31:22 AM EDT
thanks. is there any supporting data behind this? i know you guys are right, but it's hard to prove a cnn flunkie wrong without something substantial
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 7:35:18 AM EDT
So what's the deal with Dragon Skins armor? Latest hype is that several senior officers are wearing them...
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 7:37:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By crurifragium:
So what's the deal with Dragon Skins armor? Latest hype is that several senior officers are wearing them...

Senior officers also have protective details tasked with keeping them far away from any tangos. Your average infantryman doesnt have that luxury. Plus, Dragonskin hasnt passed the Army's acceptance testing yet.

Kharn
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 7:40:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By guardian855:
You're both right in a way.

Not all military personal have had body armor since the START of the war. When I was over there in March of '03, the only armor we had were the flak vests, and those won't stop bullets, just sharpnel.
However, there was a major effort and all troops now have body armor. We got our set of body armor in July of '03.



PASGT will stop pistol caliber bullets.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 7:41:17 AM EDT
Everybody going to OIF & OEF are issued the Interceptor Body Armor(IBA) with the Improved Small Arms Protection Insert (ISAPI)plates. I think there are 3 plates per vest, 2 front and 1 back.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 7:41:57 AM EDT
I have never encountered anyone outside the wire without a vest AND SAPI plates.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 7:44:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By colesteele:
Everybody going to OIF & OEF are issued the Interceptor Body Armor(IBA) with the Improved Small Arms Protection Insert (ISAPI)plates. I think there are 3 plates per vest, 2 front and 1 back.



1 front and 1 back actually. They're a pretty tight fit so I don't see 2 plates fitting. Somehow I ended up with a medium vest and large plates, the plates barely fit. Had to use some 550 cord to secure it.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 7:47:09 AM EDT
When I went in February '04, everyone in my unit left the U.S. with the current issue IBV and brand new plates.

I saw no one during my stay over there who did not have the same thing.

The whole issue is kind of silly, and blown way out of proportion. I don't recollect seeing too many people in the old war films storming the beaches of Normandy, or landing on Iwo with IBV's. Now all of a sudden it is mandatory that everyone have them? Next thing, they will be complaining that everyone is not issued their very own Abrams tank. Anything to complain about; it's all good propaganda...
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 7:51:28 AM EDT
We just got the new ASAPI plates. Supposed to stop 7.62 armor piercing.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:02:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GySgtD:
When I went in February '04, everyone in my unit left the U.S. with the current issue IBV and brand new plates.

I saw no one during my stay over there who did not have the same thing.

The whole issue is kind of silly, and blown way out of proportion. I don't recollect seeing too many people in the old war films storming the beaches of Normandy, or landing on Iwo with IBV's. Now all of a sudden it is mandatory that everyone have them? Next thing, they will be complaining that everyone is not issued their very own Abrams tank. Anything to complain about; it's all good propaganda...



it's pretty bad when OUR media does the enemy's propagandizing for them
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:07:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Kharn:

Originally Posted By crurifragium:
So what's the deal with Dragon Skins armor? Latest hype is that several senior officers are wearing them...

Senior officers also have protective details tasked with keeping them far away from any tangos. Your average infantryman doesnt have that luxury. Plus, Dragonskin hasnt passed the Army's acceptance testing yet.

Kharn



Hasn't passed or hasn't been tested?

Would the Army even consider them with the large cost difference?
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:07:15 AM EDT
Well, since now pretty much everyone has the interceptor and plates, the local liberal rag newspaper is running a story about how a concerned father just wants his son to be protected, and the army won't let him send his privately bought dragon skin armor to his son in the military. (His son is issued the interceptor and plates) Apparently the interceptor vest ( which the media ran with the last 2 years saying the lack of was causing massive casualties) isn't good enough any more....
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:11:57 AM EDT
Mother of one of our Marines spent $3,000 on body armor.
Complained about it to the media, congress, and anyone else who would listen.
The Commandant even got involved.

The thing is, her son HAS all the body armor he needs, issued.
Always has. Why then did she buy it?
She's just a kook.

But she's a kook that caused a Congressional Inquiry.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:21:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2006 8:22:29 AM EDT by Black-Tiger]
WHen I was there back in 2003; I was issued an interceptor OTV with two SAPIU plates; everyone in my unit had them and nobody left for Iraq without one. THere were SOME shortages of armor thast were quickly resolved by logistics, the premise of soldiers with NO body armor is ridiculous, often bordering on idiotic.

But since the Libtards have that as a talking point, even if you tell them, they won't believe you; remember...


[in a Rush Limbaugh kinda tone] BUSH IS EVIL, BUSH IS BAD, BUSH IS A TOWEL-SNAPPING FRAT BOY, BUSH IS A DUNCE.

Yeah, whatever!

Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:26:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FunYun1983:

Originally Posted By Kharn:

Originally Posted By crurifragium:
So what's the deal with Dragon Skins armor? Latest hype is that several senior officers are wearing them...

Senior officers also have protective details tasked with keeping them far away from any tangos. Your average infantryman doesnt have that luxury. Plus, Dragonskin hasnt passed the Army's acceptance testing yet.

Kharn



Hasn't passed or hasn't been tested?

Would the Army even consider them with the large cost difference?



theres rumors of some funky political bullshit going on with dragonskin... supposedly the army wants the patent rights and the inventor doesnt want to sell so its been blacklisted ( just a rumor)
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:56:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NightWatchman:

Originally Posted By guardian855:
You're both right in a way.

Not all military personal have had body armor since the START of the war. When I was over there in March of '03, the only armor we had were the flak vests, and those won't stop bullets, just sharpnel.
However, there was a major effort and all troops now have body armor. We got our set of body armor in July of '03.



PASGT will stop pistol caliber bullets.



True, but I wasn't really concerned with getting shot at by a pistol.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 10:32:17 AM EDT
Even the stateside National Guard has interceptor vests with SAPI plates. Everyone in my state anyway. Dragonskin is way overrated, and way too expensive. ONNEX produces SAPI plates, they have been tested and validated by the army and supplies units and SF, and it's even cheaper than the current plates.

But all this controversy is irrelevant, as of 31 Mar 06, the only armor allowed by the US Army in Iraq is the IBA with standard SAPI plates. The current armor isn't bad, but I think there are better options and dragonskin is not one of them.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 10:33:55 AM EDT
I was there early 04 to early -05. I took lots of pictures.

Linky

Tell him to look at the pictures and let us know if he sees anyone outside the wire not wearing the issue body armour.

Everyone I saw had IBA, everyone wore it.

NTM
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 10:42:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:

Originally Posted By GySgtD:
When I went in February '04, everyone in my unit left the U.S. with the current issue IBV and brand new plates.

I saw no one during my stay over there who did not have the same thing.

The whole issue is kind of silly, and blown way out of proportion. I don't recollect seeing too many people in the old war films storming the beaches of Normandy, or landing on Iwo with IBV's. Now all of a sudden it is mandatory that everyone have them? Next thing, they will be complaining that everyone is not issued their very own Abrams tank. Anything to complain about; it's all good propaganda...



it's pretty bad when OUR media does the enemy's propagandizing for them



It's nothing new. I heard the same type of shit from our media 33+ years ago. Hell, Jane Fonda was a hero to our media.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 3:42:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2006 9:21:47 PM EDT by Kodiak-AK]

Originally Posted By Black-Tiger:
WHen I was there back in 2003; I was issued an interceptor OTV with two SAPIU plates; everyone in my unit had them and nobody left for Iraq without one. THere were SOME shortages of armor thast were quickly resolved by logistics, the premise of soldiers with NO body armor is ridiculous, often bordering on idiotic.

But since the Libtards have that as a talking point, even if you tell them, they won't believe you; remember...


[in a Rush Limbaugh kinda tone] BUSH IS EVIL, BUSH IS BAD, BUSH STICKS IN YOUR TEETH!!
Yeah, whatever!



Yea damn it . Shave that shit already .
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 4:13:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
Mother of one of our Marines spent $3,000 on body armor.
Complained about it to the media, congress, and anyone else who would listen.
The Commandant even got involved.

The thing is, her son HAS all the body armor he needs, issued.
Always has. Why then did she buy it?
She's just a kook.

But she's a kook that caused a Congressional Inquiry.



"One person CAN change the world, but most of the time, you probably shouldn't." - Marge Simpson
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