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Posted: 4/3/2006 4:34:36 PM EDT
I just got back from 15 days of stupidity with the California Army Guard. Words cannot describe the level of waste and utter stupidity but I'm gonna give it a try anyway. Our plan was to work on the border fencing project they have going down there. In reality, we got three or four days work completed in 11 days and it was a miracle we got that much completed.

We basically sat idle for three days and wasted about 500 man hours waiting on them tp either provide materials or equipment that we requested before we arrived. They had amazing abilities, such as providing back hoes with no buckets to trenching, grease guns with no grease, no portable electricity. If you got a saw and an extension cord you sure as hell would not get a generator to power it. We were pouring concrete and got torches and welders to build wood forms.

We asked for a five ton truck and got one with the belts rotted off the engine, no clutch, a leaking radiator and a dead battery. They had pictures of trucks that had crahsed and killed or injured several guys in the last couple of years. The excuse was always the same, driving to fast downhill or some such crap. From the looks of the maintenance on the equipment we recieved, they probably had little or no brakes, no clutch or a bad tranny when they started.

So far, it has taken more than a decade to build about 15 miles of fence and they expect to mostly kinda sorta finish in fifty to one hundred years. This is just to the edge of California, so figure 3 to 4 centuries to get to the Gulf of Mexico.

Here is the best part, illegal immigrants fly over the fences on homemade "french ladders". It does stop the fat, old or infirmed from entering so we get a better fitness level in our illegal workers. With no barbed wire or any sort of dangerous thing to stop them, it stops almost nothing, other than cars and large trucks. It does provide a buffer for stopping the mexicans from dumping garbage and pumping sewage into the US as well.

We got to talk to some Border Patrolmen, they are having a hell of a time. The mexican army is working with drug dealers to smuggle drugs and immigrants into the US of A and frequently drive equipment we provided them into the US to aid drug traffickers. The mexican army engages border patrolmen in fire fights as well. The mexican army assists in protecting drug shipments and storage.
Basically, the mexican government and it corrupt officals along the border aid in smuggling and attacks. Border Patrolmen frequently get attacked by drug gangs, various criminals or desperate immigrants, who simply flee back into mexico to avoid arrest.

This never makes the news because the mexican illegal immigrant lobby attacks anyone who reports the truth as racists or hate mongers and the liberal media shys away. In San Diego it appears they contol the media. A paltry few dollars to the average gutless congressman and they simply ignore the problem.

We really need a functioning guest worker program to allow these people to stay legally. Somebody wants to hire them or they would not be here. I would rather they paid taxes and got fucked like the rest of us. I'm yet again offended at congress and its handling of this issue. It amazes me that loobists from food industries can get congress to block regulatory action on their 700 billion dollar a year industry with less than 2 mil a year in bribes and donations. Drug companies got congress to block action on meth and ephedra for less than a million bucks and now we have a new drug terror sweeping the nation.

Why is this a problem?? BECAUSE, If Mexican lobbies bribe congress to so that they allow the estimated 13,000,000 illegals in this country to stay we get 13,000,000 new voters for whomeever supports the destruction of our way of life. The majority of illegals are adults, if they are allowed to profit from their criminal actions, the demographics of many areas will suddenly change and the political landscape will simply shift and place politicans who support drug king pins in mexico and illegal immigrant workers in power.

Trying to do anything with the Army in charge is a complete waste of time, those people were complete idiots. Thinking that a fence will suddenly stop american lust for cheap labor and cheap illegal drugs like herion cocaine, meth and weed is as stupid as the California Army Guard. We created a market, every scumbag and pot smoking asshole in America, every processing plant and every lazy politican caused this problem.

I am no longer worried about building a border fence, from the looks of it we are a day late and a dollar short yet again. I am going to take some spanish lessons and go finish my tamales. In ten years, without a few words of spanish, you wont be able to talk to your congressman.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 5:11:57 PM EDT
Here is how to secure the border (think of it as a recipe to cook):

40 foot concrete walled trench 40 feet wide

Other end of trench is a wall that is 30 feet tall and 10 feet thick

On top of wal is 60 degree posts with razor wire on 3 points (so you can't put anything over it)

On other side of wall near ground is concrete with 4 foot spiked poles one half a foot apart. sections are 15 foot wide.

On other side of "impalement playground" is more razor wire (4 spools high fence posted)

On other side of that fence is 40 yards of land mines.

On the other side of that is a fence to prevent medics from helping anyone that made it that far and no farther.

On the other side of that are obervation towers and ground vibration sensors. 50 cals in the tower and a phone to call in the chopper mounted with a chain gun.

I think this is a good beginning.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 5:12:28 PM EDT
tag for tomorrow
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 5:17:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/3/2006 5:18:21 PM EDT by Mike_Mills]

Originally Posted By JoseyWales:
Here is how to secure the border (think of it as a recipe to cook):

40 foot concrete walled trench 40 feet wide

Other end of trench is a wall that is 30 feet tall and 10 feet thick

On top of wal is 60 degree posts with razor wire on 3 points (so you can't put anything over it)

On other side of wall near ground is concrete with 4 foot spiked poles one half a foot apart. sections are 15 foot wide.

On other side of "impalement playground" is more razor wire (4 spools high fence posted)

On other side of that fence is 40 yards of land mines.

On the other side of that is a fence to prevent medics from helping anyone that made it that far and no farther.

On the other side of that are obervation towers and ground vibration sensors. 50 cals in the tower and a phone to call in the chopper mounted with a chain gun.

I think this is a good beginning.





NAH ! ! ! ! You don't need any of that. All you need are a bunch of signs that say, "DANGER - LAND MINES". Of course, a few land mines would help make the point, but land mines are cheap. All it takes is one BOOM! and very few will ever come that way again.

Link Posted: 4/3/2006 5:26:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JoseyWales:
Here is how to secure the border (think of it as a recipe to cook):

40 foot concrete walled trench 40 feet wide

Other end of trench is a wall that is 30 feet tall and 10 feet thick

On top of wal is 60 degree posts with razor wire on 3 points (so you can't put anything over it)

On other side of wall near ground is concrete with 4 foot spiked poles one half a foot apart. sections are 15 foot wide.

On other side of "impalement playground" is more razor wire (4 spools high fence posted)

On other side of that fence is 40 yards of land mines.

On the other side of that is a fence to prevent medics from helping anyone that made it that far and no farther.

On the other side of that are obervation towers and ground vibration sensors. 50 cals in the tower and a phone to call in the chopper mounted with a chain gun.

I think this is a good beginning.



+10^1000000000

And some may ask, how do you build such a wall? the man power it would take would be staggering, I have a solution.

Round up the 13 million illegals, have them build the wall, and make sure when the last brick, or razor wire is installed, that they're on the southern side.hink
Still not enough, cut all foreign aide to anyone who will not put boots on the ground in the war on terror.

Sadly, it's gonna take another terrorist attack on our soil for anything substantial to get done. HO
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 5:28:09 PM EDT
If Hitler could build the Atlantic Wall in a few short years, we could build a Mexican Wall. Of course if we'd just enforce the immigration laws on the books, we probably wouldn't need a wall.

Link Posted: 4/3/2006 5:31:06 PM EDT
Why not just round up all the illegals and put a shock collar around their necks and put a wire 'fence' along the border?

(from Caddy Shack)
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 5:37:08 PM EDT
I like the concept of the USA gov hiring the illegals it rounds up to build the wall, Pay them with a 1month to build it BONOUS!!. Ask the mexicans to step on the other side to size it up after they build it in 1month, then shut the door and hand out applications for legal entry as their months pay for building the now armed fence.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 5:43:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Izzman:


+10^1000000000

And some may ask, how do you build such a wall? the man power it would take would be staggering, I have a solution.

Round up the 13 million illegals, have them build the wall, and make sure when the last brick, or razor wire is installed, that they're on the southern side.

It would cost billions, but I think it's worth our security. Hey, maybe we can cut all foreign aide to mexico to help foot the bill.

Still not enough, cut all foreign aide to anyone who will not put boots on the ground in the war on terror.

Sadly, it's gonna take another terrorist attack on our soil for anything substantial to get done.

Just MHO



You have read my mind sir!
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 5:49:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Captain_Picard:
......if we'd just enforce the immigration laws on the books, we probably wouldn't need a wall.......



If "we" enforced the immigration laws the FEDS would lock us up!!!

FedGov insures the borders are wide open and freely passable!

I suggest a 1,000 yard free fire zone........both on the border and in Washington DC!!!!
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 5:50:00 PM EDT
Just mine the border,,a few thousand anti personel mines would do wonders,,maybe some claymores tied in with trip wire and WP grenades add some CS to the mix

Link Posted: 4/3/2006 7:06:21 PM EDT
Building a substantial fence along the Mexican border is no trick, it just takes guts.

Seems like that would be a long fence, right? Well, how many miles of fence along limited access highways has been built? So, it's apparently affordable, even if the border fence has to be three times as high as a highway fence, with three rows of fencing, and various guard devices along the upper edge.

The Russians and Chinese built a hell of a fence along their common border, and I expect it's three or four times the length of the border with Mexico, maybe longer. Of course, they built it with wood posts and guard towers, but they certainly prove the concept is useful and doable.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 7:23:36 PM EDT
I just got back from 15 days of stupidity with the California Army Guard. Words cannot describe the level of waste and utter stupidity but I'm gonna give it a try anyway. Our plan was to work on the border fencing project they have going down there. In reality, we got three or four days work completed in 11 days and it was a miracle we got that much completed.


We can thank our government for this mess. Border Patrol was driving trucks that you had to hold the damn door with your hand to keep it from flying open. Pretty sad. Now the drug runners have better equipment than our Border Patrol.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 7:26:45 PM EDT
I keep mentioning this idea and no one seems to like it:

Electric fence 50ft underground and 50ft high.

Would make for a good fireworks show
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 7:26:47 PM EDT
The poor Italians did it during the 1920s, sealing off almost the entire Libyan-Egyptian border from insurgents/guerrillas.

We have more $$, technology, and manpower but lack the guts of il Duce.


from Wikipedia:

...A barbed wire fence was built from the Mediterranean to the oasis of Al-Jaghbub to sever lines critical to the resistance....
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 7:34:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/3/2006 7:39:12 PM EDT by PaDanby]
Over engineering again. Just make it in two walls, both about 10 feet tall with rollers and razor wire on top about 5 feet apart. You don't need to make the sections continuous, just long enough that going around takes you through the worst sections of the desert terrain and then not allow water stations. Then add the the collection trucks near those openings. You would have to add anti-tunnel options at some points. But tunnels are only really viable where you have access and cover for both ends.

Glad I'm not down in the Cuyamacas with the MM tonight. Don't think they will get snow but it's sure going to be very cool and wet, and down into the 30's. That sucks if your dressed for for crossing the desert.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 7:36:48 PM EDT
Two things are needed; Pill boxes and overwatch!
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 8:19:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Captain_Picard:
If Hitler could build the Atlantic Wall in a few short years, we could build a Mexican Wall. Of course if we'd just enforce the immigration laws on the books, we probably wouldn't need a wall.




Bad example. Hitler used slave or impressed labor for that project and the cement and steel that went into the Atlantic Wall could have been much better used elsewhere. Did the Atlantic Wall stop an invasion? Nope, not for more than about two hours, and I doubt it directly caused more than a few thousand Allied casualties if that.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 8:37:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PaDanby:
Over engineering again. Just make it in two walls, both about 10 feet tall with rollers and razor wire on top about 5 feet apart. You don't need to make the sections continuous, just long enough that going around takes you through the worst sections of the desert terrain and then not allow water stations. Then add the the collection trucks near those openings. You would have to add anti-tunnel options at some points. But tunnels are only really viable where you have access and cover for both ends.




+1
In reguards to the original plan expressed in this thread I say: "Oh the material waste!"

We are not talking about stopping waves infantry with demo equipment here, just a few illeagalshat
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 10:44:58 PM EDT
I'm not opposed to the basic idea. The Border Patrol needs an all weather road along the border to get to anyplace in any weather, mud and sink holes and crappy roads make catching illegals impossible at times. The fence needs razor wire and the lighting and sensors in critical areas are good ideas.

The problem is the application. For the most part things grind to a halt because the army losers are pretty typical army losers. More concerned with shamming and fucking off than working. They are turning a 4 year project into a lifetime appointment. They spend most of the time hampering progress in every way possible. None of them seemed to recall asking us to come build the damned thing. The focus of their leadership was to hamper and impede progress on every job in any way possible and call it "training" and not actual work.

The design they have will work if it is applied by someone else.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 11:35:33 PM EDT
Don't be too surprised at the state of the CalGuard equipment:

The motor pools were raped of working vehicles to send vehicles abroad to units in the sandbox, and CalGuard is flat broke. It's almost to the point that we're deliberately running vehicles into the ground to get replacements. I remember when we got to Lewis in 2003, the Washington Guard guys fell off the chair when they saw we still had deuce-and-a-halves instead of LMTVs.

NTM
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