Africa would be a good place for a European nation to test bio weapons. I could easily see AIDS as a bioweapon test gone wrong.

Polio vaccines and the origin of AIDS

The River

Overview of the theory
One theory of the origin of AIDS is that it developed from contaminated vaccines used in the world's first mass immunisation for polio. There are a number of reasons why this theory is plausible enough to be worthy of further investigation.

The location coincides dramatically. The earliest known cases of AIDS occurred in central Africa, in the same regions where Koprowski's polio vaccine was given to over a million people in 1957-1960.
The timing coincides. There is no documented case of HIV infection or AIDS before 1959. Centuries of the slave trade and European exploitation of Africa exposed Africans and others to all other diseases then known; it is implausible that HIV could have been present and spreading in Africa without being recognised.
Polio vaccines are grown (cultured) on monkey kidneys which could have been contaminated by SIVs. Polio vaccines could not be screened for SIV contamination before 1985.
Another monkey virus, SV-40, is known to have been passed to humans through polio vaccines. A specific pool of Koprowski's vaccine was later shown to have been contaminated by an unknown virus.
In order for a virus to infect a different species, it is helpful to reduce the resistance of the new host's immune system. Koprowski's polio vaccine was given to many children less than one month old, before their immune systems were fully developed. Indeed, in one trial, infants were given 15 times the standard dose in order to ensure effective immunisation.

Quoted: i just dont see the point of it being a bio weapon takes to long to die from.

Thats the beauty. It takes a long time to die from and you can spread it. And it's bloodborne so if you have if you can't fight.

Russia could spread a disease like that across the USA and it would cripple our military. AIDS is destablizing a lot of nations in Africa.

If it was human engineered, it was a brilliant idea.  Now if there was only a Muslim only strand...

i believe it was human engineered for population control.  i also believe there is a cure.. but they wont present it till they think its time.  my .02

One of the more amusing things about AIDS/HIV is the fact that 1/10 people of Euro descent will be immune to the virus due to natural resistance built up as a result of Europeans going through the Bubonic plague.

This too had fed the conspiracy theory about AIDS being a bioweapon.

Someehow I doubt that humans had the knowledge to engineer a retrovirus in the fifties, and not figure out what the fuck a retrovirus was until the 70s.

Quoted: One of the more amusing things about AIDS/HIV is the fact that 1/10 people of Euro descent will be immune to the virus due to natural resistance built up as a result of Europeans going through the Bubonic plague. This too had fed the conspiracy theory about AIDS being a bioweapon.

I was about to issue a WTF?, but I guess it's true.

Time to celebrate with hookers and blow, and hope I'm in the 10% Club!

It really makes an excellent weapon because people can live so long to spread it around...

Quoted: Natural, there's all kind of weird viruses in Africa.  They still haven't found the natural reservoir of Ebola and Marburg.  However, SIV (Simian Immunodeficiency Virus, primate version of HIV) has been found in various primates.   SIV does not usually progress to AIDS unless one species of primate infects another. SIV does not affect humans, and HIV does not effect other primates.   Here's some information: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIV

A couple weeks (?) or more ago, There was a article (I believe New Scientist) where some one had found DNA of Ebola in fruit bats. They did not have the technology until recently to find viral DNA. People eat bats

Edit   ebola

It was The New Scientist magazine

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: A disease that tends to target the gays, backwards Turd World nations, inmates, the immoral, and the unlucky. What's there not to like? Actually white Suburbia is where AIDS is growing the fastest in the USA currently. Closet Homosexual white males spread it among their homosexual male partners and wives. Promiscuous sexual activity and heroin are growing problems in Suburbia, both of which are ripe for spreading AIDS. A perfect example is Nushawn Williams who spread HIV/AIDS to over a Dozen young white Suburban females who in turn spread it to several white suburban males Unlike more urban areas where 20 years of AIDS awareness and education has slowed the spread of the disease down, Suburbia doesn’t take the disease seriously because white Americans still associate money and skin color with being clean and disease free, and myth that Aids is a gay plague is still popular because or poor sexual education in the suburbs If this was the case then you could name just one celebrity who died of aids that was not part of the high risk group.  I can name plenty of hollywierd or high profile sexual deviants who died of the disease.  You can't name one celebrity non-high risk who died from it.  So no it's not killing off normal folks.

I have no idea what point you are trying to make.

And these days you dont know who dies from AIDS till they die, and even then. Taboo disease that is very hush hush, but current treatments keep people from looking like Tom Hanks in Philidelphia, so they can look healthy on the surface. And I dont know if anyone is eager to disclose if they have AIDS.

I thought it originated in Africa after some native fucked a monkey....

it's not engineered.

Quoted: Quoted: One of the more amusing things about AIDS/HIV is the fact that 1/10 people of Euro descent will be immune to the virus due to natural resistance built up as a result of Europeans going through the Bubonic plague. This too had fed the conspiracy theory about AIDS being a bioweapon. I was about to issue a WTF?, but I guess it's true. Time to celebrate with hookers and blow, and hope I'm in the 10% Club!

Damn I'm probably f*Cked, being Native American, European and even African descent...

Quoted: I thought it originated in Africa after some native fucked a monkey.... it's not engineered.

Yes. it was.  Anyone with any common sense at all can tell you it was engineered...
...by a monkey fucker.

Quoted: Quoted: C.  Neither. Read "Inventing the AIDS Virus" by Dr. Peter Duesberg, and check his site: www.duesberg.com AIDS is caused by recreational drug use?   That flies in the face of evidence of infection and infected blood.  How did all the hemopheliacs get AIDS from the factor medicine?  I suppose they were all secretly recreational drug users?  It's not really a virus at all?  Despite all the evidence of how it is spread?   I'm sorry - but I read the FAQ on that site, and that guy may be a smart dude, but his ideas are completely retarded.

OK, chuckles, set aside your preconceived ideas for a moment.

The use of drugs (heroin, amyl nitrate, etc.) affects the immune system, making the person more susceptible to these diseases.

When you are talking of infected blood, I assume you are referring to HIV.  In the foreword of the book it is revealed that there is no clinical, definitive documentation that the virus called HIV causes AIDS.  In fact, there is a evidence indicating that HIV is actually a "passenger virus", not causing illness.  However, researchers needed something to blame AIDS on other than behavior.

Did you miss the part about people who carry HIV living perfectly healthy lives, only getting sick after taking the toxic "anti-AIDS" drugs?

Read a bit more about the supposed behavior attributed to HIV.  The patterns of the spreading of "AIDS" don't match known patterns of viruses.  Viruses don't act the way HIV is claimed to act.

Dig a little deeper.

Quoted: Quoted: <Snip> I'm sorry - but I read the FAQ on that site, and that guy may be a smart dude, but his ideas are completely retarded.   Yup.  If I recall correctly it's the same guy whose thesis on the issue, in a nutshell, is that AIDS isn't a communicable disease. I'm sure Issac Asimov would have been interested in hearing that.

Sure, just keep drinking the Kool Aid.

Heck, all Duesberg is asking for is independent evaluation of his findings.  Not likely to happen.

From the CDCs to the multi-billion $$$ pharmaceutical companies, lots of people would be out of work if his research was verified.  Heck, independent, objective analysis could also prove he's wrong, but the AIDS industry won't allow it.

Instead, people are given these toxic chemicals like AZT, told "This will make you better", then their doctor watches helplessly as he dies.

Sure, be good little sheep and don't question what you're fed...

Quoted: Quoted: dont f""k the monkeys...(without a rubber) Suppossedly it was from a bite and not transmitted sexually.

You think he's going to admit to humping a gay money with AIDS?

I think it ocurred naturally.  But either way, it doesn't matter.  For most parts of the civilized world, morally clean living is plenty of defense.

Almost all suffering from HIV is tied to someone's deviant behavior.  There are innocent victims (Wives who get it from filandering husbands or vice versa, babies that get it from infected mom's milk, etc.) but somebody was fooling around with illegal drugs or promiscuity for it to be spread in the first place.

Quoted: Sure, just keep drinking the Kool Aid. Heck, all Duesberg is asking for is independent evaluation of his findings.  Not likely to happen. From the CDCs to the multi-billion $$$ pharmaceutical companies, lots of people would be out of work if his research was verified.  Heck, independent, objective analysis could also prove he's wrong, but the AIDS industry won't allow it. Instead, people are given these toxic chemicals like AZT, told "This will make you better", then their doctor watches helplessly as he dies. Sure, be good little sheep and don't question what you're fed...

Brohawk,

No personal flame intended and I will keep this very civil.  Duesberg is simply wrong.  It doesn't make him a bad person, just wrong.  The fact that the HIV virus causes AIDS has been proven by scientists around the world.  It would honestly have to be an international conspiracy between private and gov't run labs in many countries.  

I can't even remember that last time I prescribed AZT as there are far better and less toxic drugs available to treat AIDS or HIV infection to lower viral titers.  I know from reviewing the international literature, and from personal experience with my patients, that the HIV virus causes a drop in the CD4 count in patients who would have no other reason to have immunodeficiency.  I'm not saying that drug and alcohol use doesn't affect the immune system, just that HIV will kill CD4 cells even in those people who are otherwise 'clean-living' (ie. hemopheliacs, spouses of secretly gay men, etc).  No other viruses have been isolated in AIDS patients that can affect the immune system the way that HIV does.  Also, the disease can be transmitted with the HIV virus in primates.  

Lastly, patients with HIV infection who are on anti-retroviral drugs have been alive for 15+ years.  How can you explain that?

Quoted: I thought it originated in Africa after some native fucked a monkey.... it's not engineered.

I read a theory somewhere that it originated in Africa due to their enjoyment of eating live monkey brains, which is considered a delicacy.


Mmmmmmm .... tastes like chicken.......

Quoted: Quoted: I thought it originated in Africa after some native fucked a monkey.... it's not engineered. I read a theory somewhere that it originated in Africa due to their enjoyment of eating live monkey brains, which is considered a delicacy. Mmmmmmm .... tastes like chicken.......

Pass the salt!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: C.  Neither. Read "Inventing the AIDS Virus" by Dr. Peter Duesberg, and check his site: www.duesberg.com AIDS is caused by recreational drug use?   That flies in the face of evidence of infection and infected blood.  How did all the hemopheliacs get AIDS from the factor medicine?  I suppose they were all secretly recreational drug users?  It's not really a virus at all?  Despite all the evidence of how it is spread?   I'm sorry - but I read the FAQ on that site, and that guy may be a smart dude, but his ideas are completely retarded.   OK, chuckles, set aside your preconceived ideas for a moment.

Um - those "preconceived ideas" are called science and research.

Which of the follow explanations is MORE likely?  

That one or two formerly smart researchers have lost thier minds and now believe complete nonsense

Or, that the tens of thousands of researchers at NIH, private pharmaceutical companies and unversity research centers ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND what they are doing.


For this crackpot to be right, EVERYONE ELSE in the field of research, public health and academia would have to be wrong.  That's not a matter of "preconceived notions" - it's a matter of empirical research and established knowledge.

The use of drugs (heroin, amyl nitrate, etc.) affects the immune system, making the person more susceptible to these diseases.

Right - that's why kids with hemofelia got the disease from unscreened blood factor medicine - because they were heroin users.

When you are talking of infected blood, I assume you are referring to HIV.  In the foreword of the book it is revealed that there is no clinical, definitive documentation that the virus called HIV causes AIDS.  In fact, there is a evidence indicating that HIV is actually a "passenger virus", not causing illness.  However, researchers needed something to blame AIDS on other than behavior.

Got it.  It's a GIANT conspiracy among all NIH employees, researchers at hundreds of different pharmaceutical companies and university researchers all over the globe - all because NONE of them want to condem risky behavior like drug use.

Apart from the COMPLETE INSANITY of that kind of a vast global conspiracy argument (especially for the private pharmaceuticals, where you assume that they would forgo profits) - it also makes no sense at all, if the claim is they are all engaging in this massive conspiracy to avoid "blaming behavior"

How does that fit with the fact that everyone's explanation of AIDS is essentially a matter of "blaming" it on risky behavior, including unprotected sex, promicuity and intraveous drug use.

If they were engaged in a global conspiracy to avoid blaming behavior, why are they blaming behavior?

Did you miss the part about people who carry HIV living perfectly healthy lives, only getting sick after taking the toxic "anti-AIDS" drugs?

I didn't miss it.  I understand that humans are biological systems and that different people respond differently to different variations of a virus, and different immune systems function in different ways.

What part of that is hard to understand?

The whole way that HIV works is that it can take varying amounts of time (from very short, to very long - years) before it opportunisitically turns into full-blown AIDS.  That iming will vary, as will the timing of when someone is prescrbed drugs.  OF course the timing of those may co-vary.  It doesn't prove a thing

For each one person that happend to have the HIV develop into full-blown AIDS about the same time they took the drugs, there are likely twenty people for which the drug delayed the onset of AIDS.  

You cannot just pick and chose a few examples from a data set, and think you can draw conclusions from them while ignoring the rest of the data.  That's not science, that's superstition.  Might as well try to cure AIDS by throwing a dead cat over your shoulder in a cemetary at midnight.

Read a bit more about the supposed behavior attributed to HIV.  The patterns of the spreading of "AIDS" don't match known patterns of viruses.  Viruses don't act the way HIV is claimed to act. Dig a little deeper.

Give me a break

Why don't you "dig a little deeper" into alien abduction claims - and then I'll keep telling you that you are not "digging deep enough" or that you are being "narrow-minded" or "just don't understand" unless you believe it.


I'm sorry - but I think I'll take the word of the thousands and thousands of researchers and experts that have no apparent reasons to lie or to all engage in a vast global conspiracy (and please don't tell me "the evil drug companies are supressing it" - because that's about as plausible as "Exxon-Mobil made Bush invade Iraq) - as opposed to the word of one discredited kook.

Quoted: Quoted: I thought it originated in Africa after some native fucked a monkey.... it's not engineered. I read a theory somewhere that it originated in Africa due to their enjoyment of eating live monkey brains, which is considered a delicacy. Mmmmmmm .... tastes like chicken.......

Now how in the hell are you gonna eat a live monkey brain?

If you're eating it's brain, then it isn't alive anymore.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I thought it originated in Africa after some native fucked a monkey.... it's not engineered. I read a theory somewhere that it originated in Africa due to their enjoyment of eating live monkey brains, which is considered a delicacy. Mmmmmmm .... tastes like chicken....... Now how in the hell are you gonna eat a live monkey brain? If you're eating it's brain, then it isn't alive anymore.

Buggered if I know.

Maybe they stun it first.

LOL

Quoted: I know MOST human viruses are caused by our association with animals that we domesticated. But most of those viruses are centuries old.

Right, but all diseases have to be "new" at some point.  

Suppossedly it was from a bite and not transmitted sexually

And the guys that show up in the ER with:  Vibrators, Lightbulbs, Flashlights, Cell Phones, etc. etc. stuck in their Rectums did just fall on them in the shower...


A couple of reasons for the early spread of AIDS is the long 'incubation' period.   You go and bang a girl and get the drippy dick in a couple of days, it is easy to pinpoint and catch the source and follow the transmission back.   AIDS/HIV is a lot harder to pinpoint, and can be spread for years before someone realizes they are infected.


Another reason is the social stigma of the main transmission route.    Regardless of Hollywood's Brokeback  Crap, and the liberal media, Homosexuality is not commonly accepted in America.   20 years ago, it was even less accepted.    People would be afraid to talk about what they did and who they did it with.   Makes for pinpointing the source a major undertaking.

Viruses are fairly simple units.     A small change in coding of the RNA/DNA strands can change it's capablities a lot.   Think about how bacteria have become more resistent to antibiotics over the last 20 years.


AFARR

Quoted: I have no idea what point you are trying to make.

His point was that you get AIDS because you or someone close to you was doing something wrong.

I believe they tap it on the head, then carefully open the skull.  You then scoop the brains with a spoon while the monkey twitches and its eyes roll back into its head.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I thought it originated in Africa after some native fucked a monkey.... it's not engineered. I read a theory somewhere that it originated in Africa due to their enjoyment of eating live monkey brains, which is considered a delicacy. Mmmmmmm .... tastes like chicken....... Now how in the hell are you gonna eat a live monkey brain? If you're eating it's brain, then it isn't alive anymore. Buggered if I know. Maybe they stun it first. LOL

Just society reaping what is sows.

Quoted: Quoted: I have no idea what point you are trying to make. His point was that you get AIDS because you or someone close to you was doing something wrong.

There are still several dozen cases a year of people getting AIDS during a medical procedure...guess they are immoral too

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I thought it originated in Africa after some native fucked a monkey.... it's not engineered. I read a theory somewhere that it originated in Africa due to their enjoyment of eating live monkey brains, which is considered a delicacy. Mmmmmmm .... tastes like chicken....... Now how in the hell are you gonna eat a live monkey brain? If you're eating it's brain, then it isn't alive anymore. Buggered if I know. Maybe they stun it first. LOL

Actually the monkey has its head stuck through a hole in a table, and confined, you then beat the monkey with little mallets till it passes out or is too exhausted to fight, saw off the crown and scoop out with a spoon.

Yes that is true.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I have no idea what point you are trying to make. His point was that you get AIDS because you or someone close to you was doing something wrong. There are still several dozen cases a year of people getting AIDS during a medical procedure...guess they are immoral too

No, they are not.  However, those several dozen cases are what, perhaps .001% of all cases.

Those people are the victims of someone else's immoral behavior.  KlubMarcus is still correct.

I SEE YOU  

YHA YOU, YOU MONKEY BRAIN F_CKER

THE ONE READING THIS POST RIGHT NOW

STOP IT OR ILL TELL YOUR WIFE

JUST KIDDING,,,

dont know if it was made by martha stuart or came from a monkeys ass, but all I know is I aint getting it.........

Variablebinary:

here are still several dozen cases a year of people getting AIDS during a medical procedure...guess they are immoral too

Do you have any sources to back this up?  

HIV transmission during ANY medical procedure is extremely rare...I would doubt that there are more than one or two in a year, not dozens.    People CLAIMING to have gotten it during a Medical Procedure are probably pretty rampant--that way they can sue and get their treatments covered.    

If an employee of a hospital gets a needle stick, they have to go to employee health immediately for blood testing--this does 2 things.   It allows the hospital to montior the patient to see if they develop HIV/Hep., and it also shows the hospital that the employee is not already HIV/Hep Positive (either faked the needle stick or did it intentionally).  

Even transmission from blood or blood products is Ultra Rare.  The statistical risks for getting a viral disease are more from extrapolation of statistics (+ tests on blood that MIGHT slip through screening)  than any recordable numbers (actual patients that have developed HIV/Hep).

AFARR

If you call fuqqing Green Apes in the azz a "Natural Occurance" then I'll have to go with that.

It was NOT "engineered", except by God.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I thought it originated in Africa after some native fucked a monkey.... it's not engineered. I read a theory somewhere that it originated in Africa due to their enjoyment of eating live monkey brains, which is considered a delicacy. Mmmmmmm .... tastes like chicken....... Now how in the hell are you gonna eat a live monkey brain? If you're eating it's brain, then it isn't alive anymore. Buggered if I know. Maybe they stun it first. LOL Actually the monkey has its head stuck through a hole in a table, and confined, you then beat the monkey with little mallets till it passes out or is too exhausted to fight, saw off the crown and scoop out with a spoon. Yes that is true.

Oh God.

The South African gov invented it back when  they were being punished for apartheid.
Totally a lifestyle disease. (Yes, I know blood transfusions and some inocent victims.)
It is still getting rid of the intended targets.....

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I thought it originated in Africa after some native fucked a monkey.... it's not engineered. I read a theory somewhere that it originated in Africa due to their enjoyment of eating live monkey brains, which is considered a delicacy. Mmmmmmm .... tastes like chicken....... Now how in the hell are you gonna eat a live monkey brain? If you're eating it's brain, then it isn't alive anymore. Buggered if I know. Maybe they stun it first. LOL Actually the monkey has its head stuck through a hole in a table, and confined, you then beat the monkey with little mallets till it passes out or is too exhausted to fight, saw off the crown and scoop out with a spoon. Yes that is true. Oh God.

WHMTLFMA....

Quoted: dont f""k the monkeys...(without a rubber)

WHo cares!!!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I thought it originated in Africa after some native fucked a monkey.... it's not engineered. I read a theory somewhere that it originated in Africa due to their enjoyment of eating live monkey brains, which is considered a delicacy. Mmmmmmm .... tastes like chicken....... Now how in the hell are you gonna eat a live monkey brain? If you're eating it's brain, then it isn't alive anymore. Buggered if I know. Maybe they stun it first. LOL Actually the monkey has its head stuck through a hole in a table, and confined, you then beat the monkey with little mallets till it passes out or is too exhausted to fight, saw off the crown and scoop out with a spoon. Yes that is true. Oh God. WHMTLFMA....

Saywhat?

<------- Challenged.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I thought it originated in Africa after some native fucked a monkey.... it's not engineered. I read a theory somewhere that it originated in Africa due to their enjoyment of eating live monkey brains, which is considered a delicacy. Mmmmmmm .... tastes like chicken....... Now how in the hell are you gonna eat a live monkey brain? If you're eating it's brain, then it isn't alive anymore.

Faces of Death...I saw it. Monkey in a little cage under the two halfs of table with his hear sticking out through a hole....that was cool.

Quoted: Quoted: dont f""k the monkeys...(without a rubber) Suppossedly it was from a bite and not transmitted sexually.

It was a defensive wound.

He would have never gotten bit if he hadn't been trying to rape that monkey.

In the 80's we were getting blood from Germany that was not tested. IIRC, Edi Amine (sp?), the African dictator, was supplying it to Germany. He would round people up, hang 'em high and bleed 'em. He once bled people until he had enough money for a new jet. It's weirder than all that even, but most think the above is BS anyway. Read up.

Quoted: Quoted: dont f""k the monkeys...(without a rubber) Suppossedly it was from a bite and not transmitted sexually.

I had heard a storey about a virus that was treated by giving monkey blood transfussions and the monkeys blood had the HIV virus....who knows

Probably more than likely hunting and/or preparing monkeys for food is the cause, not consuming or sexual contact.

No one has ever cut themselves while field dressing game on this site?  That is the most likely cause.  Some poor sap cut himself while slicing up a fresh monkey.  Instant blood transfer.

I'm sure a lot more monkeys are butchered than are used for sexual purposes.  Saliva has an extremely low, if any, count of live HIV present.  Bites would be less likely lead to infection.

And yes, the RARE diseases that eventually kill have been around for some time.  Typically they affected only people with immune systems that didn't function correctly from birth or because of age, until AIDS came along.

There were rarer cases where people died of the rare diseases in the pre-HIV world, but until there was an epidemic of these diseases, no one looked for a root cause.  How many of those "random" cases in the past where otherwise healthy adults died of rare forms of pneumonia would have tested positive for HIV?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I thought it originated in Africa after some native fucked a monkey.... it's not engineered. I read a theory somewhere that it originated in Africa due to their enjoyment of eating live monkey brains, which is considered a delicacy. Mmmmmmm .... tastes like chicken....... Now how in the hell are you gonna eat a live monkey brain? If you're eating it's brain, then it isn't alive anymore.

Hannibal Lecter would disagree.

Actually the monkey has its head stuck through a hole in a table, and confined, you then beat the monkey with little mallets till it passes out or is too exhausted to fight, saw off the crown and scoop out with a spoon.

Don't give those crazy Japanese any ideas.  They already think everything is edible.

They might try to corner the market on live monkey brains.

Would be funny to find out that AIDS originated on the set of that Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom movie.