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Posted: 4/2/2006 8:38:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2006 8:39:06 PM EDT by www-glock19-com]
In response to the increasing immigration and major social pressures that will only get worse

I persoanlly think we will see the rise of a ( more than usual ) facist/socialist state in europe fairly soon less so here
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 10:15:35 PM EDT
I expect one to show up in Europe within the next 20 years or so...

And if the US ever goes that direction I'll be out of here before it does.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 10:19:02 PM EDT
As long as we get the cool uniforms, I don't see what the problem is.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 10:20:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tomislav:
As long as we get the cool uniforms, I don't see what the problem is.



Exactly. There's nothing wrong with a police state when you're the Police.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 10:21:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By smokycity:

Originally Posted By Tomislav:
As long as we get the cool uniforms, I don't see what the problem is.



Exactly. There's nothing wrong with a police state when you're the Police.



except that terrorists might try to shoot at you.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 10:37:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dsg2003gt:

Originally Posted By smokycity:

Originally Posted By Tomislav:
As long as we get the cool uniforms, I don't see what the problem is.



Exactly. There's nothing wrong with a police state when you're the Police.



except that terrorists might try to shoot at you.



too add if you are the police in a facists police state I and many like me will be shooting you.


To answer the question of if or when on facism here. I say within a decade, parts of Europe will go sooner. I predict civil war or revolution here and in England within 15 years.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 11:18:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2006 11:19:40 PM EDT by johnrj]
American liberals already embrace many of the ideologies...a negative reaction against socialism and democratic equalitarianism (everything equal for everybody) . quells social unrest and mob rule...anti-semitic...follows Darwinian theory of survival of the fittest (takes youth and struggle to achieve supremacy)
They'll use the pretense of law and order to gain control of society.

Some think it is better than Capitalism...where the rich get richer and poor get poorer
because in Fascism, the poor get poorer and the rich get richer...
The advocates of Fascism, Socialism, Communism, etc. always expect, of course, to be the elite rich benefiting from the oppression of the poor.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 8:19:49 AM EDT
Too late
already here
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 8:22:44 AM EDT
I hope I'll be working for the govt. by then so I can be guaranteed to have a gun.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 8:24:50 AM EDT
Do you actually mean a Fascist state or a Socialist state, because the two are different.

If I HAD to choose, I'd much rather live in a Fascist state that a Socialist/Communist one....
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 8:25:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 8:26:31 AM EDT
i dont think that the US will go to socialism. we will see it fail in europe long before it has a chance to take root here. facism wont happen either as long as we keep our arms
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 8:27:31 AM EDT
Socialism has already failed in Europe.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 8:27:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pzjgr:
Do you actually mean a Fascist state or a Socialist state, because the two are different.

If I HAD to choose, I'd much rather live in a Fascist state that a Socialist/Communist one....



Bingo... the original poster blurred the lines between the two...

I'll take Fascism over Socialism. Uniforms are quite slimming!


- BG
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 8:28:10 AM EDT
I don't see any useful purpose to this kind of negativity. I would be more interested in taking an active interest in our US government. If our government needs fixing; FIX IT! That's why we have a Bill of Rights.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 8:31:11 AM EDT

I'll take Fascism over Socialism. Uniforms are quite slimming!


classic sigline material
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 8:32:51 AM EDT
look at the bill of rights - every single ammendment on that document has been violated. facism is already here.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 8:34:31 AM EDT
NEVER gonna happen!!
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 8:35:19 AM EDT
Some think it is better than Capitalism...where the rich get richer and poor get poorer


Your premise is wrong.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 8:36:04 AM EDT
I detest the principles of socialism but I'd live in a socialist 'paradise' over a fascist police state any day.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 8:39:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By chips:
look at the bill of rights - every single ammendment on that document has been violated. facism is already here.



That's probably true, due to liberal judges. Have you noticed that we have two new Supreme Court justices? Have you noticed their recent decisions affirming the President regarding Gitmo and turning down the Padilla case?
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 8:40:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:

Your premise is wrong.



agreed.

original poster is in need of a Poli Sci 101 class
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 8:42:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
In response to the increasing immigration and major social pressures that will only get worse

I persoanlly think we will see the rise of a ( more than usual ) facist/socialist state in europe fairly soon less so here



What definition of fascism or socialism are you using?

Fascism/Racism/Socialism/other-isms get thrown around so much and used in ways that basically make the words use worthless.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 8:43:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

I'll take Fascism over Socialism. Uniforms are quite slimming!





Link Posted: 4/3/2006 8:46:18 AM EDT
Facist gov't...probably not.

Liberal, socialist gov't......very likely
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 8:52:49 AM EDT
France (for example) is likely to remain quite socialist, but add a xenophobic nationalistic bent to it.

Link Posted: 4/3/2006 8:54:35 AM EDT
First, define what you mean by fascist.

In the meantime, do you mean nationalism, police state, dictatorial powers, abuse of BoR?

I think there is a greater than 50% chance that if the government grants amnesty to 20 million illegal Mexicans, you will see civil unrest as outraged Americans feel like they've had their citizenship sold out from under them for thirty pieces of silver and a bag of votes. When I say "civil unrest" I'm talking arson of panacerias and Mexican restaurants, sniping at day laborers hanging out at job sites, harassment, etc., in order to make it PAINFUL for illegals to stay here. You may even see teams of good ol' boys going to the border, picking OP sites, and taking potshots at border jumpers.

All of which, of course, the government will label "domestic terrorism" and the government will crack down heavily -- not because that stuff causes property damage and loss of life, but because it a challenge to governmental authority.

And, of course, the networks will buy the "domestic terrorist" bullcrap hook line and sinker, and report it as same, because that generates viewers. Remember, the networks are NOT in the business of providing you news; they are the business of providing an audience to their advertisers, and the news is merely a gimmick to get you to watch.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:21:33 PM EDT
I guess by my meaning both come to very simliar ends with complete control over most aspects of life but the facist state allows private ownership of companies bussiness etc as opposed to the the centeral owner ship of a socialist/commuinist state
I figure that socialism cannot support itself and will collapse but a facist state has a viable chance at survival as there is some aspect of free enterprise and competion to dangle the carrot in front of someone to acheive

I could be all wet but that is my understanding of the 2


seems to me if you get too far to either ends of the political spectrum the result is about the same
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:25:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MauserMark:
I hope I'll be working for the govt. by then so I can be guaranteed to have a gun.



+1
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:27:00 PM EDT
I'd think a Communist shift would be more likely.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:35:44 PM EDT
Socialism is much more likely. Actually, INCREASED socialism is much more likely.
Actually, its pretty much inevitable at this point.

And much of europe is already a quasi-police state. Some US states aren't that far behind.

I agree with the breakup theory. Right now, the dissolution of the Union is probably more likely than a police state in this country. Why? Because of the extreme political differences of the people in various sections of the country. Some State governments and the people in those States simply wouldn't stand for it.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 9:06:07 PM EDT
If you mean Nazism, little if any chance in the US until AFTER the economy implodes ala Weimar.

I think the chances are very good within the next 20 years we're going to have a MAJOR political shakeup, but which way it goes is still up in the air.

If you mean fascism, it's here already, just as socialism is on the left. The US has had fascist/socialist movements for a century now, they just don't use those terms.

Capitalism strictly speaking no longer exists, free market capitalism requires a free market for capital.

All these things are a matter of degree to some extent. We have too much government control and interference in the economy, and we have too much militarization of law enforcement, LEOs using tools forbidden the populace, etc. but while disturbing it doesn't qualify as a "police state" yet.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 10:11:13 PM EDT
I agree that Fascism/Socialism are so similar in terms of essentials that they are indistinguishable. That being said, the US has been going down that road since at least Teddy Roosevelt, and quite arguably Lincoln
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 10:17:55 PM EDT
Communism and Fascism are only opposites on the most superficial levels. There is too much variation in the United States for either to ever dominate here. If there was a disaster big enough to cause a breakdown of the system, it's more likely we would become some sort of anarcho-capitalism, with pockets of fanaticism.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 10:33:27 PM EDT
When the guns get banned, beware.

It's all we have to keep the gov't under control
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 10:41:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2006 10:43:18 PM EDT by Dave_A]
Our system pretty much prevents this from happening...

With elections every 2 years for Congress, and the President capped at 8 years in office, it would be very clear if any government tried to go dictatorial...

Such government would probably be quickly overthrown by forces from within (i.e. I doubt they'd have military support) before civil unrest spread beyond street protests...

Ditto for a military coup...

So the mechanisim to install said govt is not there...

P.S. Most of the nation is not involved enough in the immigration issue to stoop to terrorisim (and it WOULD be terrorisim)... There are fringe groups on both sides that are, but DHS will keep them under control....

As for breakup of the union, we'd fight it again just like we fought it last time... And we'd win again, you know.... The states themselves do not have the means to fight modern war, they get it all from the Feds....
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 10:46:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Our system pretty much prevents this from happening...

With elections every 2 years for Congress, and the President capped at 8 years in office, it would be very clear if any government tried to go dictatorial...

Such government would probably be quickly overthrown by forces from within (i.e. I doubt they'd have military support) before civil unrest spread beyond street protests...

Ditto for a military coup...

So the mechanisim to install said govt is not there...

P.S. Most of the nation is not involved enough in the immigration issue to stoop to terrorisim (and it WOULD be terrorisim)... There are fringe groups on both sides that are, but DHS will keep them under control....

As for breakup of the union, we'd fight it again just like we fought it last time... And we'd win again, you know.... The states themselves do not have the means to fight modern war, they get it all from the Feds....



Yeah, yeah, we heard you the first twenty times. Kill all, screw everybody in the ass, blah blah. Really, you might want to see a shrink about this fascination with slaughtering American civilians that you seem to have.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 11:21:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By chips:
look at the bill of rights - every single ammendment on that document has been violated. facism is already here.



Link Posted: 4/5/2006 1:07:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Big_Louie:

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Our system pretty much prevents this from happening...

With elections every 2 years for Congress, and the President capped at 8 years in office, it would be very clear if any government tried to go dictatorial...

Such government would probably be quickly overthrown by forces from within (i.e. I doubt they'd have military support) before civil unrest spread beyond street protests...

Ditto for a military coup...

So the mechanisim to install said govt is not there...

P.S. Most of the nation is not involved enough in the immigration issue to stoop to terrorisim (and it WOULD be terrorisim)... There are fringe groups on both sides that are, but DHS will keep them under control....

As for breakup of the union, we'd fight it again just like we fought it last time... And we'd win again, you know.... The states themselves do not have the means to fight modern war, they get it all from the Feds....



Yeah, yeah, we heard you the first twenty times. Kill all, screw everybody in the ass, blah blah. Really, you might want to see a shrink about this fascination with slaughtering American civilians that you seem to have.



Yup. reenact the American Civil War; but only include the units that actually reside in organized states that fought for either the North or South. I reckon the South would win just with the military. If you add all the civilians, I am confident the South would prevail.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 1:27:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

I'll take Fascism over Socialism. Uniforms are quite slimming!




img128.imageshack.us/img128/3385/herman17ks.jpg




You prove my point. That 500 lbs sumbitch looks a cool 250 now.


- BG
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 5:01:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NME:
I expect one to show up in Europe within the next 20 years or so...

And if the US ever goes that direction I'll be out of here before it does.



Where are you planning to go? Will the govt allow you to leave?
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 5:31:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/5/2006 5:36:10 AM EDT by GySgtD]
Ahem... During my limited time with the John Birch Society, they considered both communism and fascism to be on the same end of the political spectrum. In fact, they said that the common belief that communism and fascism are extreme opposite sides of the political spectrum, was just the result of collectivist propaganda.

To explain the "collectivist model", the far left consists of communism (international socialism) and the far right consists of naziism (national socialism). In the middle is nothing more than creeping socialism (so-called Fabian socialism). Using this model, then you have to come to the conclusion that socialism is inevitable. That is what the propagandists want you to think.

The Birchers model starts with no government at one end, and proceeds in a straight line towards more and more government power.

Besides other things, the differences between the two models is that the former goes in a circle and the latter goes in a straight line. Which is how I look at things to this day.

Link Posted: 4/5/2006 9:40:45 AM EDT
Were on the downhill slide now. Its only a matter of time before we hit bottom
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 9:52:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:
i dont think that the US will go to socialism. we will see it fail in europe long before it has a chance to take root here. facism wont happen either as long as we keep our arms



Since when does learning from others enter in to the Liberal mind? Everywhere you look, you see the wreckage left behind by failed socialism/liberalism but to them perfection is always just a bit more "progressiveness" and a tax increase away.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 3:10:49 PM EDT
Don't you mean when are we going to stop being a fascist state?

Have you looked in a dictionary? Fascist states are defined
as govt-business in cohoots. Sounds like the US of A to me.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 3:19:51 PM EDT
As I write this my elbow sits on a book, The Road to Serfdom, by noted economist Friedrich Hayek. It was the first notable explanation of how communism will ALWAYS lead to totalitarianism. I have yet to read it, but I will probably post a book report when I am done.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 3:25:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/5/2006 3:43:57 PM EDT by nightstalker]
I think the best definition of fascism is nationalism blended with mysticism. It's against socialism, at least the brand the communists wanted. It's also against democratic capitalism. What it stands for is control and regulation of well...everything. We have de-regulated many things lately like the communications industry, the power generators and we have advanced technology that is less regulated than it's predecessors, like the internet and satellite tv and radio. They opened up the GPS satellites to public use. Public land use changes are a mixed bag with some areas regulated and others de-regulated. Allowing religious organizations (right or wrong) to participate in social service programs seems to be a type of de-regulation.

And then the top reason we are not Fascist.....
WE HAVE NO BORDERS How can you be fascist with no borders? Where is the nationalism?
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 3:27:21 PM EDT
Depends on the definition

American Heritage Dictionary instead describes it as "A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism.

sounds like we are already there
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