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Posted: 4/2/2006 11:41:22 AM EDT
I'm confused about this one. According to some of what I've read if this passes an independent contactor works for a security firm, the IC can buy and posess a machine gun. It becomes his personal gun.

Link Posted: 4/2/2006 11:45:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2006 11:45:19 AM EDT by bulldog1967]
I might need to do a career change......

JUST while he is employed with the PMC or after too?
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 11:50:17 AM EDT
Maybe ARFCOM can start its own private security firm...
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 11:50:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bulldog1967:
I might need to do a career change......

JUST while he is employed with the PMC or after too?



I'm trying to figure it out. Does it simply mean an IC can posess a machinegun while on duty or can an IC actually buy one and it be his personal gun?

Link Posted: 4/2/2006 11:51:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 11:52:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:

Originally Posted By BuckeyeRifleman:
Maybe ARFCOM can start its own private security firm...



Read my mind.....



I think the security firm has to be .gov approved.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 12:24:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:

Originally Posted By BuckeyeRifleman:
Maybe ARFCOM can start its own private security firm...



Read my mind.....



I think the security firm has to be .gov approved.



of course, IIRC it is can be State approved if need be...

does this mean that private security, like mall cops and security guards(organizations approved by and registered with the state), will now be able to get machine guns?
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 12:27:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

does this mean that private security, like mall cops and security guards(organizations approved by and registered with the state), will now be able to get machine guns?



When was the last time you saw a mall cop that could afford to drop $15K on an M16? Don't think we have too much to worry about.

+1 For Arfcom Security Specialists!!!
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 12:36:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2006 12:37:17 PM EDT by Bama-Shooter]

Originally Posted By ErinMT:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

does this mean that private security, like mall cops and security guards(organizations approved by and registered with the state), will now be able to get machine guns?



When was the last time you saw a mall cop that could afford to drop $15K on an M16? Don't think we have too much to worry about.

+1 For Arfcom Security Specialists!!!



My understanding they would be able to buy new machineguns. ie about $1,000 for a new M16.

But I'm not sure if this bill allows the IC's to personally own the machinegun or merely posess a machinegun owned by the security firm.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 12:37:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Originally Posted By ErinMT:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

does this mean that private security, like mall cops and security guards(organizations approved by and registered with the state), will now be able to get machine guns?



When was the last time you saw a mall cop that could afford to drop $15K on an M16? Don't think we have too much to worry about.

+1 For Arfcom Security Specialists!!!



My understanding they would be able to buy new machineguns. ie about $1,000 for a new M16.



Spooge.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 12:37:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Originally Posted By ErinMT:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

does this mean that private security, like mall cops and security guards(organizations approved by and registered with the state), will now be able to get machine guns?



When was the last time you saw a mall cop that could afford to drop $15K on an M16? Don't think we have too much to worry about.

+1 For Arfcom Security Specialists!!!



My understanding they would be able to buy new machineguns. ie about $1,000 for a new M16.



Exactly. M16s are only 15k for us second class citizens.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 12:38:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ErinMT:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

does this mean that private security, like mall cops and security guards(organizations approved by and registered with the state), will now be able to get machine guns?



When was the last time you saw a mall cop that could afford to drop $15K on an M16? Don't think we have too much to worry about.

+1 For Arfcom Security Specialists!!!



No, he won't drop $15K, he'll drop about $1k. If I correctly understand the legal ramifications of this, he'll be buying a machinegun "under authority of the United States". The security contractor will not be limited to pre-'84 transferrables. He'll be able to buy new machineguns.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 12:39:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2006 12:40:48 PM EDT by stator]
Stator
ARFCom Security Specialists, LLC
Employee #4
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 12:46:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2006 12:52:55 PM EDT by nationwide]
Are you speaking of the new amendment to the Atomic Energy Act of 1954?

Don't hold your breath for "individual contractor purchases"

And it's bullshit to even think one group of citizens, by nature of their employment, have a right to something the rest of us subjects don't.

ETA: You are the first one I've heard refer to this as the "Blackwater Bill"
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:27:25 PM EDT
Anybody else?
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:33:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:33:14 PM EDT
i'd imagine there would be some serious background checks, which i wouldnt oppose. i might just moonlight as a "security contractor"

think about it- how hard would it be to become a contractor business? especially in a state like FL. the company could offer post-hurricane security and other disaster relief services. who says you need to make it a career, or even turn a profit.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:34:49 PM EDT
I'm surprised that ammunition manufacturers aren't lobbying heavily for less restrictions on the private ownership of automatic weapons. More autos, more ammo sold.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:36:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JBowles:
Lets do this one first

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=14&t=276145



That thread does not address what this legislation actually means.

I want to know in laymans terms, what is the purpose of this bill?

What does it mean? Who does it effect? Can an IC buy or posess a machinegun?
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:37:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheCommissioner:
I'm surprised that ammunition manufacturers aren't lobbying heavily for less restrictions on the private ownership of automatic weapons. More autos, more ammo sold.



They can't keep up with demand now.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:39:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:
i'd imagine there would be some serious background checks, which i wouldnt oppose. i might just moonlight as a "security contractor"

think about it- how hard would it be to become a contractor business? especially in a state like FL. the company could offer post-hurricane security and other disaster relief services. who says you need to make it a career, or even turn a profit.



I think the approval of the .gov will keep most mall ninja types out.

But the LEO/Military contigent to groups such as Black Water, ATS, TC, etc. will get the nod.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:40:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Originally Posted By TheCommissioner:
I'm surprised that ammunition manufacturers aren't lobbying heavily for less restrictions on the private ownership of automatic weapons. More autos, more ammo sold.



They can't keep up with demand now.



Okay, "more ammo sold" at a higher price.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:45:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2006 3:50:35 PM EDT by t-money]
If you are talking about the bill I think you're talking about, it's a clarification of existing law. It creates a new "except for" category for the NFA transfer restrictions similar to the current one allowing local police departments to have MGs. Private security contractors would be able to receive post-samples to use when training or providing security under a contract with the government. Doesn't affect us unless "Arfcom Security Inc" can get a contract and a letter from the AG that states we need M16s for reasons of national security. The firm providing security would own the weapons, but allow their employees to use them, subject to the terms of their contract.


ETA: MGs are property of the firm, not the individual employee. Same as a PD being able to own anything, and allow inidividual officers to use it for police purposes.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:48:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By t-money:
If you are talking about the bill I think you're talking about, it's a clarification of existing law. It creates a new "except for" category for the NFA transfer restrictions similar to the current one allowing local police departments to have MGs. They would be able to receive post-samples to use when training or providing security under a contract with the government. Doesn't affect us unless "Arfcom Security Inc" can get a contract and a letter from the AG that states we need M16s for reasons of national security.



So it would allow an IC to posess not OWN the weapon they are using?

The weapon would actually belong to the security company.?
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:49:05 PM EDT
OK now I'm really confused--what does this have to do with the Atomic Energy Act of 1954?
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 4:00:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By libertyforall:
OK now I'm really confused--what does this have to do with the Atomic Energy Act of 1954?



I would assume it has to deal with the contracted armed security working for DoE and clarifies the of purchase MGs to be used by the employees.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 4:04:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheCommissioner:
I'm surprised that ammunition manufacturers aren't lobbying heavily for less restrictions on the private ownership of automatic weapons. More autos, more ammo sold.



They are too busy lobbying the Gov't to force the scrapping of surplus ammo & components.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 4:07:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By nationwide:
Are you speaking of the new amendment to the Atomic Energy Act of 1954?

Don't hold your breath for "individual contractor purchases"

And it's bullshit to even think one group of citizens, by nature of their employment, have a right to something the rest of us subjects don't.

ETA: You are the first one I've heard refer to this as the "Blackwater Bill"



It proposes to allow mercenaries to buy new machine guns in the USA, while citizens can't.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 4:08:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ErinMT:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

does this mean that private security, like mall cops and security guards(organizations approved by and registered with the state), will now be able to get machine guns?



When was the last time you saw a mall cop that could afford to drop $15K on an M16? Don't think we have too much to worry about.

+1 For Arfcom Security Specialists!!!



I have a hard time seeing my self working for ASS.

Course, I guess I've done alot worse for ass.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 4:09:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dance:

Originally Posted By nationwide:
Are you speaking of the new amendment to the Atomic Energy Act of 1954?

Don't hold your breath for "individual contractor purchases"

And it's bullshit to even think one group of citizens, by nature of their employment, have a right to something the rest of us subjects don't.

ETA: You are the first one I've heard refer to this as the "Blackwater Bill"



It proposes to allow mercenaries to buy new machine guns in the USA, while citizens can't.



Troll someone elses thread.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 4:12:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By ErinMT:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

does this mean that private security, like mall cops and security guards(organizations approved by and registered with the state), will now be able to get machine guns?



When was the last time you saw a mall cop that could afford to drop $15K on an M16? Don't think we have too much to worry about.

+1 For Arfcom Security Specialists!!!



I have a hard time seeing my self working for ASS.

Course, I guess I've done alot worse for ass.



A.S.S.

Too funny.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 4:18:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Troll someone elses thread.



No.

Here is the bill, as it pertains to "security contractors":

SEC. 3. POSSESSION AND TRANSFER OF MACHINEGUNS FOR INDUSTRY TESTING AND SECURITY CONTRACTING.

(a) Machineguns for Federal Contractors- Section 922(a)(4) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by striking `except' and all that follows and inserting `except--

`(A) as specifically authorized by the Attorney General consistent with public safety and necessity; or

`(B) to comply with a contract between any person and the United States which requires that person to provide national security services for the United States or any training related to such services;'.

(b) Sale or Delivery of Machineguns to Federal Contractors- Section 922(b) of such title is amended by adding at the end the following: `Paragraphs (2) and (4) of this subsection shall not apply to a sale or delivery to comply with a contract between any person and the United States which requires that person to provide national security services for the United States or any training related to the services.'.

(c) Post-86 Machineguns for Testing, Research and Development, Training, and Security- Section 922(o) of such title is amended--

(1) in paragraph (2)--

(A) by striking `or' at the end of subparagraph (A); and

(B) by redesignating subparagraph (B) as subparagraph (E) and inserting after subparagraph (A) the following:

`(B) a transfer to, or possession by, a person to comply with a contract between that person and the United States which requires the person to provide national security services for the United States or any training related to the services;

`(C) a transfer to, or possession by, a licensed manufacturer or licensed importer solely for testing, research, design, or development of ammunition or a firearm;

`(D) a possession by a licensed manufacturer or licensed importer for the purposes of training persons to whom a machinegun, manufactured or imported by the licensee, may be transferred as described in subparagraph (A) or (B); or'; and

(2) by adding at the end the following:

`(3) A person shall not transfer a machinegun to another person in the circumstances described in paragraph (2)(B) of this subsection, unless the Attorney General has notified the person that the Attorney General has determined, based on the fingerprints of such other person and on information in the national instant criminal background check system established under section 103 of the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act, that such other person is not prohibited from possessing or receiving a firearm under Federal or State law.'.

(d) Importation of Machineguns- Section 925(d) of such title is amended--

(1) in paragraph (3), by striking `or' at the end;

(2) in paragraph (4), by striking the period and inserting `; or'; and

(3) by inserting after paragraph (4) the following:

`(5) is imported or brought in for a purpose described in subparagraph (B), (C), or (D) of section 922(o)(2).'.

(e) Importation Under the National Firearms Act- Section 5844 of the National Firearms Act (26 U.S.C. 5844) is amended--

(1) in paragraph (3), by inserting `or' after the semicolon; and

(2) by inserting after paragraph (3) the following:

`(4) a machinegun being imported or brought in to comply with a contract between any person and the United States which requires the person to provide national security services for the United States or any training related to the services; or

`(5) a machinegun being imported or brought in by a registered importer or registered manufacturer for the purposes of training persons who acquire machineguns pursuant to paragraph (1) that were manufactured or imported by the registrant.'.

(f) National Security Services Defined- Section 921(a) of such title is amended by adding at the end the following:

`(36) The term `national security services' means any protective, defensive, or security service provided pursuant to a contract or subcontract with a department or agency of the United States.'.

(g) Effective Date- The amendments made by this section shall take effect after the 180-day period that begins with the date of the enactment of this Act.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 4:20:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dance:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Troll someone elses thread.



No.

Here is the bill, as it pertains to "security contractors":

SEC. 3. POSSESSION AND TRANSFER OF MACHINEGUNS FOR INDUSTRY TESTING AND SECURITY CONTRACTING.

(a) Machineguns for Federal Contractors- Section 922(a)(4) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by striking `except' and all that follows and inserting `except--

`(A) as specifically authorized by the Attorney General consistent with public safety and necessity; or

`(B) to comply with a contract between any person and the United States which requires that person to provide national security services for the United States or any training related to such services;'.

(b) Sale or Delivery of Machineguns to Federal Contractors- Section 922(b) of such title is amended by adding at the end the following: `Paragraphs (2) and (4) of this subsection shall not apply to a sale or delivery to comply with a contract between any person and the United States which requires that person to provide national security services for the United States or any training related to the services.'.

(c) Post-86 Machineguns for Testing, Research and Development, Training, and Security- Section 922(o) of such title is amended--

(1) in paragraph (2)--

(A) by striking `or' at the end of subparagraph (A); and

(B) by redesignating subparagraph (B) as subparagraph (E) and inserting after subparagraph (A) the following:

`(B) a transfer to, or possession by, a person to comply with a contract between that person and the United States which requires the person to provide national security services for the United States or any training related to the services;

`(C) a transfer to, or possession by, a licensed manufacturer or licensed importer solely for testing, research, design, or development of ammunition or a firearm;

`(D) a possession by a licensed manufacturer or licensed importer for the purposes of training persons to whom a machinegun, manufactured or imported by the licensee, may be transferred as described in subparagraph (A) or (B); or'; and

(2) by adding at the end the following:

`(3) A person shall not transfer a machinegun to another person in the circumstances described in paragraph (2)(B) of this subsection, unless the Attorney General has notified the person that the Attorney General has determined, based on the fingerprints of such other person and on information in the national instant criminal background check system established under section 103 of the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act, that such other person is not prohibited from possessing or receiving a firearm under Federal or State law.'.

(d) Importation of Machineguns- Section 925(d) of such title is amended--

(1) in paragraph (3), by striking `or' at the end;

(2) in paragraph (4), by striking the period and inserting `; or'; and

(3) by inserting after paragraph (4) the following:

`(5) is imported or brought in for a purpose described in subparagraph (B), (C), or (D) of section 922(o)(2).'.

(e) Importation Under the National Firearms Act- Section 5844 of the National Firearms Act (26 U.S.C. 5844) is amended--

(1) in paragraph (3), by inserting `or' after the semicolon; and

(2) by inserting after paragraph (3) the following:

`(4) a machinegun being imported or brought in to comply with a contract between any person and the United States which requires the person to provide national security services for the United States or any training related to the services; or

`(5) a machinegun being imported or brought in by a registered importer or registered manufacturer for the purposes of training persons who acquire machineguns pursuant to paragraph (1) that were manufactured or imported by the registrant.'.

(f) National Security Services Defined- Section 921(a) of such title is amended by adding at the end the following:

`(36) The term `national security services' means any protective, defensive, or security service provided pursuant to a contract or subcontract with a department or agency of the United States.'.

(g) Effective Date- The amendments made by this section shall take effect after the 180-day period that begins with the date of the enactment of this Act.



Thank you, Dance.

That's constructive.

Now someone tell me, EXACTLY what it means.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 4:34:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2006 4:35:32 PM EDT by AR15]
That is confusing!
How does that affect a security company that subcontracts to another company that has a contract to provide security to the gov?
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 7:48:23 AM EDT
I guess all the ARF lawyers were playing golf Sunday.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 8:32:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By ErinMT:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

does this mean that private security, like mall cops and security guards(organizations approved by and registered with the state), will now be able to get machine guns?



When was the last time you saw a mall cop that could afford to drop $15K on an M16? Don't think we have too much to worry about.

+1 For Arfcom Security Specialists!!!



I have a hard time seeing my self working for ASS. hr


A.S.S.

Too funny.




Hey, just imagine, we could all be...

ARFcom
Security
Services
Heavy
Ordnance
Law
Enforcement
Specialist

Link Posted: 4/3/2006 8:38:13 AM EDT
Tag.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 3:13:33 PM EDT
Another try.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 7:25:07 AM EDT
One more time.
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