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Posted: 4/2/2006 9:35:24 AM EDT
This is a link off of the Drudgereport.com. Just wanted to see what my fellow ARF.comers thought about this guy.

www.sas.org/tcs/weeklyIssues_2006/2006-04-07/feature1p/index.html

I've heard of this stuff before but this is alittle wacked if you know what I mean. This thinking is not as uncommon as you think though. It has been advocated for a long time. I'm in the medical field, so we are trying to save people, not kill them. But alot of other higher education academics think that world population needs to be drastically reduced, and quickly.

Along those lines, here is a link about the Georgia guidestones. Monuments in Georgia. See what #1 is on their list.
www.thegeorgiaguidestones.com/Message.htm
Don't worry, the guidestones are not some internet conspiracy. You can go and see them for yourself. Do a google for them, they even are listed in Georgia's tourist attractions.

Howw about that #1 on the list?
Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature????? What are you going to do with the other 5.5 billion people that already inhabit earth? Kill them all with an airborne virus? AIDS is too slow? The bird flu is great?

All I would like to say is "You first Dr. Pianka, you first"



Link Posted: 4/2/2006 9:39:05 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 9:39:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ColonelKlink:
sounds like rainbow six



yah...
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 9:42:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ColonelKlink:
sounds like rainbow six



+1

Link Posted: 4/2/2006 9:45:17 AM EDT
Yup........Rainbow Six.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 9:46:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ColonelKlink:
sounds like rainbow six



It's exactly like Rainbow Six.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 9:54:15 AM EDT
the argument extends to worrying about a scientist with similar ideological beliefs being able to cook up some sort of super desease. i think this is a real possibility. unlike having to have hundreds of centrifuges and material to make a bomb, a genetic/biolog/DNA infectous desease expert could craft a virus that could kill 90% of its victims and could spread this desease and get it started.

i believe that the nuclear bombs are last years super weapons and that custom modified deaseas or DNA modifying viruses are the wave of the future. imagine a desease that lowers the IQ of target genetic groups children for instance, or makes them sterile.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 10:00:56 AM EDT
Yep, when I did genetics research, we learned about taking "vectors", in our case bacteria with a plasmid, and using the bacteria to infect plants and inplant the DNA that you wanted into that plant. Then the next generation of plants would express that trait, like glowing in the dark, or producing bug resistant leaving or such.

It has also been done with Viruses on Humans already. There is an ongoing study to treat children with SCIDS to try to restore some of their immunocompetancy. It has worked in 17 of the 19 patients so far.

The possibility that a virus could be crafted only to attack certain genetic traits is certainly a possibility. The technolgoy is here now. And you better bet that someone will use it eventually to further their political or social agenda. Just when and how is the issue.

Think of Hitler's time. He could have crafted a viruses just to kill those of semetic origin by specifically targeting the virus to certain DNA markers. Those with the markers it would kill or sterilize, those without, it would leave alone.

Link Posted: 4/2/2006 10:05:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2006 10:17:50 AM EDT by leakycow]
wow...I took an ecology class under Dr. Pianka at UT back in the mid 90s. He doesn't mind sharing his opinion on anything, for certain.

ETA: and now that I read the article, it appears that the somewhat bitter, outspoken professor I had a dozen years ago has moved toward the "nuts" end of the spectrum. He has spent a lifetime (he is older than he looks in that picture on the link) living in a microscopic realm of his own making, and fails to see a "bigger" picture.

Having said that, I do agree that there are way too many people on the planet now and dumb people need to stop fucking so much.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 10:08:43 AM EDT
Not while John Clark and Ding
Chavez are on our side.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 10:13:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wes15a2:
Not while John Clark and Ding
Chavez are on our side.



Yep, to bad they aren't real. Or Jack Ryan could be president also. =)
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 10:15:31 AM EDT
Rainbow Six


Dr.s and Lawyers are too greedy to let that happen.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 10:18:48 AM EDT
Ditto the you first Dr. Doom.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 10:20:16 AM EDT
Population out of control ?

simple solution:

do away with all the stupid laws which are preventing Natural Selection from running its course.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 10:21:22 AM EDT
If they're going to do something like this they should at least come up with a zombie virus to make it interesting.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 10:26:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Macumazahn:

Originally Posted By wes15a2:
Not while John Clark and Ding
Chavez are on our side.



Yep, to bad they aren't real. Or Jack Ryan could be president also. =)



Who need them when you have Jack Bauer and his Carhart hooded sweatshirt?
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 10:26:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By yfs200:

Originally Posted By Macumazahn:

Originally Posted By wes15a2:
Not while John Clark and Ding
Chavez are on our side.



Yep, to bad they aren't real. Or Jack Ryan could be president also. =)



Who need them when you have Jack Bauer and his Carhart hooded sweatshirt?



Or Jack's master for that matter - Chuck Norris.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 10:29:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2006 10:32:32 AM EDT by tac45]

Originally Posted By raven:
If they're going to do something like this they should at least come up with a zombie virus to make it interesting.



Only the strong survive.


What pisses me off is I'm sure he thinks he and others like him should get a deferment from the extermination seeing as how he's better than us and all. Fuckin Nazi is what he is.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 10:31:25 AM EDT
I did a little googling on Forest Mims, recognized the name immediately. Yep, same guy I thought he was. He wrote many of the how-to books for Radio Shack, among others.

This Dr. Pianka is a dangerous person.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 10:33:13 AM EDT
Nihilists, fuck me. Say what you will about the tenets of National Socialism, at least it's an ethos.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 10:34:26 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 10:50:20 AM EDT
ebola would not work. The outbreak is too rapid. People would find out what is going on and stay inside. The epidemic would be over in a month.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 10:55:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
ebola is a very poor choice for doing that. i've worked with it.

this guy is an idiot.

mike



When the Hell did you work with ebola!?

And why?

Kills people too fast?
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 10:59:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:
Nihilists, fuck me. Say what you will about the tenets of National Socialism, at least it's an ethos.



Are these the Nazis, Walter?

No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 11:05:09 AM EDT
This scenario was done a couple of decades before Rainbow Six. Tom Ardies "Pandemic" (1973) had the same scenario (culling the population by an ebola modified influenza)

Not all authors are as original as people think.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 11:38:28 AM EDT
12 Monkeys



Originally Posted By Macumazahn:
Yep, when I did genetics research, we learned about taking "vectors", in our case bacteria with a plasmid, and using the bacteria to infect plants and inplant the DNA that you wanted into that plant. Then the next generation of plants would express that trait, like glowing in the dark, or producing bug resistant leaving or such.

It has also been done with Viruses on Humans already. There is an ongoing study to treat children with SCIDS to try to restore some of their immunocompetancy. It has worked in 17 of the 19 patients so far.



Haven't lloked into that for a while but Gene Therapy is not the cure all. The genetic trait is short term and further gene therapy treatment is required. If they are only at 17-19 they haven't progressed much in over a decade.


The possibility that a virus could be crafted only to attack certain genetic traits is certainly a possibility. The technolgoy is here now. And you better bet that someone will use it eventually to further their political or social agenda. Just when and how is the issue.


The technology isn't here and I'll tell you why. Because race is not clear cut. This is a spectrum and additionally while some race may have common alleles that is no guarantee that those same alleles are not present in those of other popualtions. Further, it is impossible to control with the level of technology we have at this point.


Think of Hitler's time. He could have crafted a viruses just to kill those of semetic origin by specifically targeting the virus to certain DNA markers. Those with the markers it would kill or sterilize, those without, it would leave alone.




One day probably.
If people could do it, they would.

I don't know what more to say about that. Humans are not a nice species.

On top of that, I would say that nature has created some really nasty bugs all on her own.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 11:41:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JoseyWales:
ebola would not work. The outbreak is too rapid. People would find out what is going on and stay inside. The epidemic would be over in a month.



Not only that but it is transmitted by body fluids. Poor way to spread a virus if you are looking to wipe out a large population.

Respiratory transmission is more ideal for that.

In all honesty, we could all be infected with a virus that was contrived to take decades to act. While unlikely we might never know until it was too late.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 11:42:19 AM EDT
Sounds like the evil plan of a criminal mastermind on a cheesy spy movie.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 11:42:51 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 11:49:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:

Originally Posted By NME:

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
ebola is a very poor choice for doing that. i've worked with it.

this guy is an idiot.

mike



When the Hell did you work with ebola!?

And why?

Kills people too fast?



was assigned to the Aeromedical Isolation Team USAMRIID FT Detrick Maryland. Deployed twice for Ebola cleanup to various places. Ebola while deadly is pretty easy contain compared with other biological threats.



Basically requires direct contact with infected people or contaminated objects for transmission, right?
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 11:50:51 AM EDT
I thought influenza was one of the most infectious diseases?
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 11:59:05 AM EDT
Well, if that sick fuck isn't on the terrorist watch list, then no one should be.

Fuck him and whatever he rode on to get into this state!

Link Posted: 4/2/2006 12:18:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TodaysTomSawyer:
Well, if that sick fuck isn't on the terrorist watch list, then no one should be.

Fuck him and whatever he rode on to get into this state!




Uhm... why should he be considered a terrorist? He isn't doing this to strike fear, he isn't doing this to attack one government, he is simply proposing a method to reduce human population to levels that are sustainable on this planet.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 12:21:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2006 12:22:29 PM EDT by The_Beer_Slayer]
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 12:26:14 PM EDT
Anyone would have to be an Idiot to try something like that. There is no guarantee that a bug would restrict itself to the human population. Just look at the Bird Flu. There is a lot of talk about it jumping from the bird population to the human population. If someone did engineer a bug to kill off humans, it could possibly mutate and destroy every animal on earth except man.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 12:30:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gunham:
Anyone would have to be an Idiot to try something like that. There is no guarantee that a bug would restrict itself to the human population. Just look at the Bird Flu. There is a lot of talk about it jumping from the bird population to the human population. If someone did engineer a bug to kill off humans, it could possibly mutate and destroy every animal on earth except man.



the odds of that happening are incredibly slim; the only thing we would have to worry about is killing off birds and pigs.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 12:39:19 PM EDT
Fortunately for us, this is one of those "harder than it looks" things to do. That and the fact that most of the people who would try are too stupid/poor/impatient to pull it off make it pretty unlikely. This guy and the ones clapping for him have as much credibility as the ranting moonbats on DU and rate about that much attention.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 12:48:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By TodaysTomSawyer:
Well, if that sick fuck isn't on the terrorist watch list, then no one should be.

Fuck him and whatever he rode on to get into this state!




Uhm... why should he be considered a terrorist? He isn't doing this to strike fear, he isn't doing this to attack one government, he is simply proposing a method to reduce human population to levels that are sustainable on this planet.



No, this bastard doesn't have enough sense to do anything to strike fear. Humans are apparently just for observation in that big 'ol petri dish known as the earth. But I'm sure there are elements very interested in his ideas.


One of Pianka's earliest points was a condemnation of anthropocentrism, or the idea that humankind occupies a privileged position in the Universe. He told a story about how a neighbor asked him what good the lizards are that he studies. He answered, “What good are you?”

Pianka hammered his point home by exclaiming, “We're no better than bacteria!”



So, his plan for reducing the worlds population to levels that are sustainable (in his and his followers eyes) by murdering 5 or so billion as he sees fit is what? Not something I would have heard from Mother Theresa. Who lives and who dies - do you want to make that decision?

If something happens in nature, that's one thing, but to play God - that's right up there with Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, etc.

What would you call him, since he isn't a terrorist by your definition? Misguided? Crazy? A good guy?

Maybe if he hadn't cut off the recording devices, we could all have a good warm feeling over his lecture.

Link Posted: 4/2/2006 12:52:14 PM EDT
Tag.



-K
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 1:02:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By TodaysTomSawyer:
Well, if that sick fuck isn't on the terrorist watch list, then no one should be.

Fuck him and whatever he rode on to get into this state!




Uhm... why should he be considered a terrorist? He isn't doing this to strike fear, he isn't doing this to attack one government, he is simply proposing a method to reduce human population to levels that are sustainable on this planet.



To levels that HE feels are sustainable. I would actually listen to some of this overpopulation crap if ONE of the proponents suggested that HE would be better off gone. But they never think that way.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 1:12:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By TodaysTomSawyer:
Well, if that sick fuck isn't on the terrorist watch list, then no one should be.

Fuck him and whatever he rode on to get into this state!




Uhm... why should he be considered a terrorist? He isn't doing this to strike fear, he isn't doing this to attack one government, he is simply proposing a method to reduce human population to levels that are sustainable on this planet.



isnt this the same reason why aids was created?
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 1:19:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Planerench:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By TodaysTomSawyer:
Well, if that sick fuck isn't on the terrorist watch list, then no one should be.

Fuck him and whatever he rode on to get into this state!




Uhm... why should he be considered a terrorist? He isn't doing this to strike fear, he isn't doing this to attack one government, he is simply proposing a method to reduce human population to levels that are sustainable on this planet.



To levels that HE feels are sustainable. I would actually listen to some of this overpopulation crap if ONE of the proponents suggested that HE would be better off gone. But they never think that way.



well, ideally, all of the stupid, non-college educated people would die off, so that means that scientists like him probably still would be alive.

Not saying what he wants is moral or not, just that it is rather rational from the view of,"in order to save humanity in the long run, we need to kill off most of it now"
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 1:25:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TodaysTomSawyer:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By TodaysTomSawyer:
Well, if that sick fuck isn't on the terrorist watch list, then no one should be.

Fuck him and whatever he rode on to get into this state!




Uhm... why should he be considered a terrorist? He isn't doing this to strike fear, he isn't doing this to attack one government, he is simply proposing a method to reduce human population to levels that are sustainable on this planet.



No, this bastard doesn't have enough sense to do anything to strike fear. Humans are apparently just for observation in that big 'ol petri dish known as the earth. But I'm sure there are elements very interested in his ideas.



scientifically, we are not more important than bacteria; we are just more scientifically interesting due to being complex multicellular beings.




One of Pianka's earliest points was a condemnation of anthropocentrism, or the idea that humankind occupies a privileged position in the Universe. He told a story about how a neighbor asked him what good the lizards are that he studies. He answered, “What good are you?”

Pianka hammered his point home by exclaiming, “We're no better than bacteria!”



So, his plan for reducing the worlds population to levels that are sustainable (in his and his followers eyes) by murdering 5 or so billion as he sees fit is what? Not something I would have heard from Mother Theresa. Who lives and who dies - do you want to make that decision?



He isn't deciding who lives and dies, that is the wonder of using a virus; the strong, resistent, lucky individuals will live, while others die. It isn't as if he is saying,"we need to manufacture 5.5 billion rounds of 5.56 and go around shooting people in the head".


If something happens in nature, that's one thing, but to play God - that's right up there with Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, etc.



the needs of the entirety of mankind as a species outweigh the concerns of an individual man.



What would you call him, since he isn't a terrorist by your definition? Misguided? Crazy? A good guy?

Maybe if he hadn't cut off the recording devices, we could all have a good warm feeling over his lecture.



He isn't misguided... the Earth's human population is beginning to reach an unsustainable level(not in the immediate future sustainable, we are talking in the long run).

He isn't crazy... his idea to solve the above problem is logical, and the only way to actually solve it in fact(people cannot control their own reproductive tendencies enough to be counted on not to have the minimum amount of offspring necessary to maintain population), and I really don't see what is inherently "evil" about it.

He isn't good... no one who suggests killing off people is good. The idea itself may be a good one, but the man himself isn't.

I don't know if you can call him anything really besides an idealist.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 1:26:58 PM EDT
This shit is straight out of 12 monkeys. Damn .
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 1:32:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JoseyWales:
ebola would not work. The outbreak is too rapid. People would find out what is going on and stay inside. The epidemic would be over in a month.



That's why in Rainbow Six, the real distribution of the virus was going to be done with the vaccine, which wasn't really a vaccine. People would be getting a full power-shot of the super Ebola, and that was what was going to kill the people in droves.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 1:35:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Big_Louie:
Fortunately for us, this is one of those "harder than it looks" things to do. That and the fact that most of the people who would try are too stupid/poor/impatient to pull it off make it pretty unlikely. This guy and the ones clapping for him have as much credibility as the ranting moonbats on DU and rate about that much attention.



Um, I don't want to appear like I embrace his new "save the world" platform, but don't discount this man's contributions by saying he has no credibility. He is a pre-eminent biologist who happens to have spouted off some twisted shit. It is because he has credibility that these people showed up to listen to him speak in the first place.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 1:38:22 PM EDT
Boy this clown is really sick..

Does he know that he will also wipe out the animal population in the same process?

His favorite Bisons will all be wiped out.

Link Posted: 4/2/2006 1:47:51 PM EDT
Pianka in the late 60's




He's a wack job Darwinist who wants to speed up evolution..


Darwin
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 1:53:49 PM EDT
Prince Phillip said he wanted to die and come back as a virus to cull the population.

How come Republicans say they are against abortion but don't do anything to stop it?
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 2:04:19 PM EDT
I think that he wants to use an AIRBORNE EBOLA strain, one that does not have to be spread by human fluid contact. That would make it much easier to catch and harder to contain.

I'm sure this guy is smart and wouldn't be advocating using this virus to kill billions of people if it wouldn't work.


Link Posted: 4/2/2006 2:05:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2006 2:11:35 PM EDT by TodaysTomSawyer]

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

He isn't deciding who lives and dies, that is the wonder of using a virus; the strong, resistent, lucky individuals will live, while others die. It isn't as if he is saying,"we need to manufacture 5.5 billion rounds of 5.56 and go around shooting people in the head".

I don't know if you can call him anything really besides an idealist.




But this is incorrect. There is no ebola virus in my neighborhood. Someone would have to introduce it. If it is him or one of his followers, then he is not some neutral observer - he is the perpetrator of the act. He caused them to die. Not the "wonder of the virus" that was not there until he introduced it.

Science at the exclusion of morals and God is just sick and indefensible.

ETA - You know, I'm sitting here catching the end of the NASCAR race, listening to my kids laugh as the cars bump each other, and I can't believe this sick fucker and sick fuckers like him are planning and plotting this kind of shit. They have no life and they are inhuman and God will judge their black souls.

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