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Posted: 4/1/2006 12:31:02 AM EDT
no more private purchased armor anymore for our guys.

www.cnn.com/2006/US/03/31/army.bodyarmor.ap.ap/index.html
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 12:40:22 AM EDT
Somebody up the COC has a hard-on for this company...


www.pinnaclearmor.com/body-armor/sov.php



(Are the ghosts of the T44 vs T48 debacle visiting us...?)

Link Posted: 4/1/2006 12:58:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2006 12:58:59 AM EDT by Alaskanmoosehunter]
"We're very concerned that people are spending their hard-earned money on something that doesn't provide the level of protection that the Army requires people to wear. So they're, frankly, wasting their money on substandard stuff," said Col. Thomas Spoehr, director of materiel for the Army.



HaHAHAHAhahaha. That's funny!

Before someone gets on their high horse here...I'm a Army Vet w/two combat tours and currently work and help train soldiers still to this day as a DoD Civilian. While I have seen the new armour system stop bullets first hand, it doesn't mean it will always stop bullets when the contract is up for bid again for these ballistic vests.

Remember, the Army contracts to the lowest bidder for any type of equipment and believe me when I say the Army has lowered ALOT of standards to make contracts easier, faster and more appealing to the contractors for mass production.

It's all about liability and SGLI (Life Insurance), the Army hates to pay out SGLI's and will find any reason possible to get out of paying that money to a lost service members family.
(Wear ANYTHING unapproved by the Army and kiss your families $$$$ goodbye if you )



Link Posted: 4/1/2006 1:00:30 AM EDT
I thought any protection at all was better than none...
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 1:07:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Noname:
Somebody up the COC has a hard-on for this company...


www.pinnaclearmor.com/body-armor/sov.php

(Are the ghosts of the T44 vs T48 debacle visiting us...?)




Sounds like a shady ass company, if they are selling their "wonder armor" to the public, but "can't provide samples" to the military for testing.



Army Lt. Col. Scott Campbell said the Army has asked Pinnacle to provide 30 sets of the full Dragon Skin armor so it can be independently tested. He said Pinnacle has indicated it won't be able to provide that armor until May, and the company said that is still the plan.

Campbell said initial military tests on small sections of the Dragon Skin armor had disappointing results. He said Pinnacle has received $840,000 in research funding to develop improved armor.




Good old war profiteers, always had them, always will.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 1:09:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2006 1:15:40 AM EDT by Chairborne]

Originally Posted By Alaskanmoosehunter:
"We're very concerned that people are spending their hard-earned money on something that doesn't provide the level of protection that the Army requires people to wear. So they're, frankly, wasting their money on substandard stuff," said Col. Thomas Spoehr, director of materiel for the Army.



HaHAHAHAhahaha. That's funny!

Before someone gets on their high horse here...I'm a Army Vet w/two combat tours and currently work and help train soldiers still to this day as a DoD Civilian. While I have seen the new armour system stop bullets first hand, it doesn't mean it will always stop bullets when the contract is up for bid again for these ballistic vests.

Remember, the Army contracts to the lowest bidder for any type of equipment and believe me when I say the Army has lowered ALOT of standards to make contracts easier, faster and more appealing to the contractors for mass production.

It's all about liability and SGLI (Life Insurance), the Army hates to pay out SGLI's and will find any reason possible to get out of paying that money to a lost service members family.
(Wear ANYTHING unapproved by the Army and kiss your families $$$$ goodbye if you )






Line of duty determinations have absolutely NO impact on SGLI payouts. The military can, however prevent payment of survivor benefits to the surviving family members if they determine negligence on the part ofthe deceased. SGLI/VGLI is run by a private company, the .mil cannot tell them to "not pay" a policy. Have you ever actually read your SGLI policy? I have, its the shortest insurance policy on the planet, no fine print BS.

ETA: here are the only exclusions:



The insurance is forfeited when an insured member is guilty of mutiny, treason, spying, or desertion, or refuses, because of conscientious objections, to perform service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or refuses to wear the uniform of such force. No insurance shall be payable for death inflicted as a lawful punishment for crime or for military or naval offense except when inflicted by an enemy of the United States.



www.insurance.va.gov/sgliSite/handbook/handbookch1.htm

Apparently it's a common "barracks/seabag lawyer" rumor:



Myths and Rumors About SGLI/VGLI Insurance

There are several myths, rumors and misconceptions about SGLI and VGLI insurance floating around. Below, we have listed some of the most commonly held misconceptions.

True or False: SGLI won’t pay if I die while wearing privately purchased body armor.

False: SGLI claims are paid regardless of any issues of body armor -- either privately purchased or military issued.

True or False: SGLI or VGLI won’t pay if I die in a motor vehicle accident or airplane accident and wasn’t wearing a seat belt.

False: SGLI or VGLI claims are paid regardless of whether the member was or was not wearing a seatbelt.

True or False: SGLI or VGLI won't pay if I die in a motorcycle accident and I was not wearing a helmet.

False: Your SGLI or VGLI proceeds will be paid to your beneficiary or beneficiaries, regardless of whether you were or were not wearing a helmet.


True or False: I'm a Reservist and I heard that my SGLI coverage is only good while I'm at drill.

False: If you are a Reservist and have been assigned to a unit in which you are scheduled to perform at least 12 periods of inactive duty that is creditable for retirement purposes, full-time SGLI coverage is in effect 365 days of the year. You are also covered for 120 days following separation or release from duty.

True or False: SGLI or VGLI won't pay if I die as the result of a terrorist attack.

False: Your SGLI or VGLI proceeds will be paid to your beneficiary or beneficiaries if you die in a terrorist attack.


True of False: There are several war or terrorism exclusions that would prevent payment of my SGLI or VGLI insurance to my beneficiary(ies).

False: There are no exclusions that apply to SGLI or VGLI coverage.

How Can SGLI Coverage be Forfeited?


The coverage provided by the SGLI program will be forfeited only when an insured member is found guilty of mutiny, treason, spying, or desertion, or refuses, because of conscientious objections, to perform service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or refuses to wear the uniform of such force.

No insurance shall be payable for death inflicted as a lawful punishment for crime or for military or naval offense except when inflicted by an enemy of the United States.



Link Posted: 4/1/2006 2:03:37 AM EDT
Believe it. I am in contry right now and the monkies(leadership)have passed that down to us as well. No privately fielded armor at all.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 3:39:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bronk1:
Believe it. I am in contry right now and the monkies(leadership)have passed that down to us as well. No privately fielded armor at all.

.

so that must mean that everyone in country has the proper amount of armor correct?
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 6:56:56 AM EDT
I've yet to figure out why they don't just throw everyone a fully "armored" (hard and soft plates) Eagle CIRAS (or something else along those lines) and call it a day.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 7:27:21 AM EDT
In Somalia we were prohibited from wearing personal level IIA soft body armor In addition to the PASGT vest.

Arguement was the NCOs wearing their own armor under their BDU tops would cause those who didnt have it to lack faith in their issue equipment.

Really pissed me off that I wasnt allowed to wear something under my uniform, where it could not be seen, that would protect offer additioasnl protection over the issued gesr of the time.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 7:51:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AROKIE:

Originally Posted By bronk1:
Believe it. I am in contry right now and the monkies(leadership)have passed that down to us as well. No privately fielded armor at all.

.

so that must mean that everyone in country has the proper amount of armor correct?



Just from personal observation: all .mil are issued IBA, with SAPI plates, with side and deltoid protectors, and the new Kevlar helmet. Anyone running around outside the wire without it (and some do) is doing so by choice, and usually in violation of a general order. Can't speak for what contractors get; I see mostly a kevlar helmet and what looks like some sort of blue or black vest with plate carriers that covers center mass.

I think it has less to do with "this new stuff doesn't meet our standards" and more with the .mil wants to end the misconception that troops are in country without body armor.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 7:52:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
I thought any protection at all was better than none...



I think this the is the misconception the .mil is trying to quash
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