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Posted: 3/31/2006 9:52:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2006 3:45:11 AM EDT by Variablebinary]
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 10:01:50 PM EDT
Didn't seem to bother him too much. Not even much blood.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 10:07:29 PM EDT
And that was with a 40? Damn! I mean, that's the typical reaction when people get shot with the 9mm, but with a caliber that starts with a "4"...

Damn
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 10:10:21 PM EDT
handguns are handguns. rifles are rifles.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 10:15:36 PM EDT
One bullet too short I'd say.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 10:17:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/31/2006 10:17:43 PM EDT by Misery]
This very common with all calibers. Those who think certain calibers are deadlier than others aren't very correct. People get shot with 25 auto and die. It's all placement and hits as well.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 10:18:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1911ar-15:
And that was with a 40? Damn! I mean, that's the typical reaction when people get shot with the 9mm, but with a caliber that starts with a "4"...

Damn



Yeah, that 0.05" difference really showed him.

Obviously, they didn't shoot him enough.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 10:21:55 PM EDT
Makes me wonder what he was high on as well. If he he wasn't phased much, he was probably strung out on something. Even if I was hit with 9mm in a non-life threatening area, I probably wouldn't want to get up for a while.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 10:22:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ElCamino:

Originally Posted By 1911ar-15:
And that was with a 40? Damn! I mean, that's the typical reaction when people get shot with the 9mm, but with a caliber that starts with a "4"...

Damn



Yeah, that 0.05" difference really showed him.

Obviously, they didn't shoot him enough.



and the .07 between 9mm and .45 makes a huge diff as well
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 10:26:03 PM EDT
I guess they weren't professional enough.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 10:32:10 PM EDT
Tempe? I THOUGHT that looked like markm, mullet and all! Anyone heard from him?
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 10:38:30 PM EDT
I will remain skeptical about this.

What proof was there that this was indeed a .40 bullet (and not just that title frame in the beginning)? I'm thinking they might have shot him obliquely such that the bullets did not penetrate into his chest cavity but rather created superficial wounding.

There didn't seem to be a whole lot of blood. Don't (sucking) chest wounds bleed like crazy? From what I could tell, this man should have had two sucking chest wounds if the shots were indeed placed squarely into him. Another possibility could be a shitty load, perhaps expansion occurred too quickly?

He could have been high on drugs, but he seemed too calm to be a tweaker. Opium maybe? Even so, two squarely placed shots should have bled him enough, in the time it took for him to find a hideout and the cops to find him, so that his blood pressure likely would have dropped to nil.

I'll wait for the Snopes report.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 10:44:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FortyFiveAutomatic:
I will remain skeptical about this.

What proof was there that this was indeed a .40 bullet (and not just that title frame in the beginning)? .



I wondered about that as well.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 10:46:09 PM EDT
I hear the unmistakable sound of a Detroit Diesel 2-stroke engine in the background.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 10:47:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FortyFiveAutomatic:
I will remain skeptical about this.

What proof was there that this was indeed a .40 bullet (and not just that title frame in the beginning)? I'm thinking they might have shot him obliquely such that the bullets did not penetrate into his chest cavity but rather created superficial wounding.

There didn't seem to be a whole lot of blood. Don't (sucking) chest wounds bleed like crazy? From what I could tell, this man should have had two sucking chest wounds if the shots were indeed placed squarely into him. Another possibility could be a shitty load, perhaps expansion occurred too quickly?

He could have been high on drugs, but he seemed too calm to be a tweaker. Opium maybe? Even so, two squarely placed shots should have bled him enough, in the time it took for him to find a hideout and the cops to find him, so that his blood pressure likely would have dropped to nil.

I'll wait for the Snopes report.



Tempe PD is professional enough to carry a Glock Fo-ty as their standard sidearm.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 10:50:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Variablebinary:

Originally Posted By FortyFiveAutomatic:
I will remain skeptical about this.

What proof was there that this was indeed a .40 bullet (and not just that title frame in the beginning)? I'm thinking they might have shot him obliquely such that the bullets did not penetrate into his chest cavity but rather created superficial wounding.

There didn't seem to be a whole lot of blood. Don't (sucking) chest wounds bleed like crazy? From what I could tell, this man should have had two sucking chest wounds if the shots were indeed placed squarely into him. Another possibility could be a shitty load, perhaps expansion occurred too quickly?

He could have been high on drugs, but he seemed too calm to be a tweaker. Opium maybe? Even so, two squarely placed shots should have bled him enough, in the time it took for him to find a hideout and the cops to find him, so that his blood pressure likely would have dropped to nil.

I'll wait for the Snopes report.



Tempe PD is professional enough to carry a Glock Fo-ty as their standard sidearm.



Noted. I figured that part would have been easy for someone in the know. It's the rest that still has me wondering, though.

Shot placement is everything, correct, but in this case it appeared good, in the vitals, IF the shots did not impact obliquely.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 10:51:28 PM EDT
Yeah,

There was no mention of the .40 caliber.

I have seen too much of this type of shit to believe anything anymore. For all I know it could have been two pellet rifle wounds.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 10:52:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By txgp17:
I hear the unmistakable sound of a Detroit Diesel 2-stroke engine in the background.

Yeah,I do too,city bus or firetruck.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 10:56:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cataclysm:
...Even if I was hit with 9mm...



Even?

I carry 147gr Golden Sabers in my G19, and they have consistently proven to penetrate to the minimum requirement of 12" in clothed gelatin, and expand to an impressive .66", making it a more destructive round than the fabled .45 ACP ball round of WWII fame.

9mm NATO ball may suck, but you would wise to have a little more respect for civilian defensive loads.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 11:43:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Variablebinary:

Originally Posted By Cataclysm:
...Even if I was hit with 9mm...



Even?

I carry 147gr Golden Sabers in my G19, and they have consistently proven to penetrate to the minimum requirement of 12" in clothed gelatin, and expand to an impressive .66", making it a more destructive round than the fabled .45 ACP ball round of WWII fame.

9mm NATO ball may suck, but you would wise to have a little more respect for civilian defensive loads.




Dude, take a valium and calm down. I just got off of a 56 hour work week, and I am surprised I am able to remember how to turn on the computer. I aint debating the whole caliber size/ effectiveness issue. I was just using an example. If you want to poke fun at size, I catch enough hell for carrying a fiveseven. I just threw out 9mm off the top of my head, I carried one of those for a while to. Does every body have to take everything so damn seriously.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 11:50:01 PM EDT
Shot Placement!
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 12:18:24 AM EDT
Who knows at what angle the bullets hit him, or at what distance were the shots taken.
Even with a .22 in your lung, you wont be walking straight up like that guy.
And of course some amphetamine does wonders to ones resilience.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 12:26:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Madis:
Who knows at what angle the bullets hit him, or at what distance were the shots taken.
Even with a .22 in your lung, you wont be walking straight up like that guy.



This is pretty much what I was getting at. But apparently the way I said it would have pissed off the .22LR guys.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 3:00:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Variablebinary:
...147gr Golden Sabers in my G19, and they have consistently proven to penetrate to the minimum requirement of 12" ...making it a more destructive round than the fabled .45 ACP ball round of WWII fame...




Well let's see - .45 hardball will penetrate 26"+ of soft tissue - so it is more "destructive" than your 9mm round to a target behind intervening cover.

And 230 gr .45 Golden Sabers will expand to .70"+ & penetrate 16"+ of gelatin, so what's your point? I'm sticking with .45.

The .40 is still better than a 9 too - you just can't make generalizations based on isolated instances like this one.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 3:11:29 AM EDT
There is no way a guy that size can take two shots to the chest from a .40S&W and be walking away in handcuffs....not possible. You might not kill a person instantly, but they arent going to be up and walking around either. I call BS




Link Posted: 4/1/2006 3:16:44 AM EDT
He could have been shot with one of the lighter .40 loads though he wasn't wearing a shirt or armor though and those should have penetrated as well. I am wondering his he was grazed creating a superficial flesh wound.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 3:21:37 AM EDT
Now this guy didnt react well to being tagged with .40 at all.

media.putfile.com/How-To-Make-Swiss-Cheese80
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 3:25:51 AM EDT
I liked the NEXT video better...

Never saw it coming...

video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1671455005426654229&pl=true&auto=true
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 3:27:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By p-dog:

Originally Posted By Variablebinary:
...147gr Golden Sabers in my G19, and they have consistently proven to penetrate to the minimum requirement of 12" ...making it a more destructive round than the fabled .45 ACP ball round of WWII fame...




Well let's see - .45 hardball will penetrate 26"+ of soft tissue - so it is more "destructive" than your 9mm round to a target behind intervening cover.

And 230 gr .45 Golden Sabers will expand to .70"+ & penetrate 16"+ of gelatin, so what's your point? I'm sticking with .45.

The .40 is still better than a 9 too - you just can't make generalizations based on isolated instances like this one.



This debate will never end. Just to stir up the pot, there's been more than one person here who's noticed when shooting up garbage like old computer cases or cars, that .45 seems to have a tougher time getting through hard obstacles whereas 9mm FMJ zips right through the same junk. But people aren't made of circuit cards and metal... yet.


Link Posted: 4/1/2006 6:51:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2006 6:52:20 AM EDT by red65]
First of all, I love that video of the clerk blasting that asshole. How do I download it?

Second, here's what I have learned since I started reading this site:

12 ga = only works close in, say 10 ft.

38 special = laughable, pathetic, about on par with 22 lr

9mm = just wounds, then the bad guy takes your gun away and beats you up

357 = totally obsolete, was considered etremely deadly until 1985, not anymore

40 = amazingly deadly

45acp = quite literally a death ray. makes bad guy fly backwards with giant basketball sized hole

223 = perfect for everything, including 600 yd shots on deer

Link Posted: 4/1/2006 7:11:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dragracer_Art:
I liked the NEXT video better...

Never saw it coming...

video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1671455005426654229&pl=true&auto=true



That was a good one!
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 7:26:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2006 7:35:52 AM EDT by txgp17]

Originally Posted By Dragracer_Art:
I liked the NEXT video better...

Never saw it coming...

video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1671455005426654229&pl=true&auto=true


FREE ROCK WITH EVERY PURCHASE
Ok, maybe my sense of humow humor is real dull today with this cold I have, but can someone explain that?
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 8:42:39 AM EDT
Sweeet mullet.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 8:51:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2006 8:51:18 AM EDT by Tannim]
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 8:58:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By macro:
There is no way a guy that size can take two shots to the chest from a .40S&W and be walking away in handcuffs....not possible. You might not kill a person instantly, but they arent going to be up and walking around either. I call BS







He could be high on meth? Deer his size have suffered far worse wounds from a SP .308 and given the hunter a run for their money meat.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 9:12:35 AM EDT
Chuck Taylor writes in one of his Combat Handgun books about a case where a guy was shot with a .44 Magnum hollowpoint round in the chest at point blank range. The bullet passed through the chest and buried itself in the wall behind the victim. Shooter ran off, and the victim walked to a nearby pay phone, called 911 for an ambulance, and was sitting on the curb waiting for the paramedics when they arrived. The bullet failed to expand, but a .44 magnum should have still did a number on him, expansion or no expansion.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 9:22:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By guardian855:
Chuck Taylor writes in one of his Combat Handgun books about a case where a guy was shot with a .44 Magnum hollowpoint round in the chest at point blank range. The bullet passed through the chest and buried itself in the wall behind the victim. Shooter ran off, and the victim walked to a nearby pay phone, called 911 for an ambulance, and was sitting on the curb waiting for the paramedics when they arrived. The bullet failed to expand, but a .44 magnum should have still did a number on him, expansion or no expansion.



As I understand, unless expansion occurs, a bullet is doing no more damage that it's diameter unless it's ~2000fps or higher. Above that, hydrostatic shock comes into play, damaging the surrounding area. That .44 Magnum probably did no more damage than a .45ACP FMJ.

It's been said time and time again:


Handguns are handguns and rifles are rifles.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 9:24:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By macro:
There is no way a guy that size can take two shots to the chest from a .40S&W and be walking away in handcuffs....not possible. You might not kill a person instantly, but they arent going to be up and walking around either. I call BS

You never know exactly how one person or animal will react to being hit. I've been working emergency Services for 17 years now and I've seen a fair share of shootings.

I've seen guys that have taken rifle shots to the chest were walking and talking after the fact.
I've seen guys get one .22 LR to the chest and be Dead Right There.
Craziest thing I ever saw was a guy who got hit in the neck in a drive-by, entrance and exits wounds present on each side of his neck. No external bleeding, no loss of conciousness, no compromised airway. He walked out of the hospital a few hours after we brought him there.

Bullets are crazy things.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 9:27:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By red65:
First of all, I love that video of the clerk blasting that asshole. How do I download it?

Second, here's what I have learned since I started reading this site:

12 ga = only works close in, say 10 ft.

38 special = laughable, pathetic, about on par with 22 lr

9mm = just wounds, then the bad guy takes your gun away and beats you up

357 = totally obsolete, was considered etremely deadly until 1985, not anymore

40 = amazingly deadly

45acp = quite literally a death ray. makes bad guy fly backwards with giant basketball sized hole

223 = perfect for everything, including 600 yd shots on deer





Link Posted: 4/1/2006 9:36:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:

Originally Posted By guardian855:
Chuck Taylor writes in one of his Combat Handgun books about a case where a guy was shot with a .44 Magnum hollowpoint round in the chest at point blank range. The bullet passed through the chest and buried itself in the wall behind the victim. Shooter ran off, and the victim walked to a nearby pay phone, called 911 for an ambulance, and was sitting on the curb waiting for the paramedics when they arrived. The bullet failed to expand, but a .44 magnum should have still did a number on him, expansion or no expansion.



As I understand, unless expansion occurs, a bullet is doing no more damage that it's diameter unless it's ~2000fps or higher. Above that, hydrostatic shock comes into play, damaging the surrounding area. That .44 Magnum probably did no more damage than a .45ACP FMJ.

It's been said time and time again:


Handguns are handguns and rifles are rifles.



So an FN FiveseveN with bullets doing 2200 FPS should have a hydro static effect?
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 9:42:28 AM EDT
I'm no ballistics expert, but it seems to me no matter what caliber the rounds were, they were HP's and probably expanded before they penetrated the rib cage.

Do we know the details of the shooting? Did they hit him through a window, or a barricade? A lot of things could've happened that may have slowed the bullets down or caused them to expand prematurely.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 9:49:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tannim:
on the same page:

video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2783606066836182688&pl=true



That one's gotta be BS.
"Victim" starts falling a little too soon, and he seems to fall "carefully" (don't wanna hurt yourself, don't ya know).


R
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 9:53:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tannim:

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:

Originally Posted By guardian855:
Chuck Taylor writes in one of his Combat Handgun books about a case where a guy was shot with a .44 Magnum hollowpoint round in the chest at point blank range. The bullet passed through the chest and buried itself in the wall behind the victim. Shooter ran off, and the victim walked to a nearby pay phone, called 911 for an ambulance, and was sitting on the curb waiting for the paramedics when they arrived. The bullet failed to expand, but a .44 magnum should have still did a number on him, expansion or no expansion.



As I understand, unless expansion occurs, a bullet is doing no more damage that it's diameter unless it's ~2000fps or higher. Above that, hydrostatic shock comes into play, damaging the surrounding area. That .44 Magnum probably did no more damage than a .45ACP FMJ.

It's been said time and time again:


Handguns are handguns and rifles are rifles.



So an FN FiveseveN with bullets doing 2200 FPS should have a hydro static effect?



2200?? Seems to me like it spends more time closer to 1700-1900fps.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 9:53:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tannim:
on the same page:

video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2783606066836182688&pl=true



That second one is just a little bit fake.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 9:59:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:

Originally Posted By Tannim:

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:

Originally Posted By guardian855:
Chuck Taylor writes in one of his Combat Handgun books about a case where a guy was shot with a .44 Magnum hollowpoint round in the chest at point blank range. The bullet passed through the chest and buried itself in the wall behind the victim. Shooter ran off, and the victim walked to a nearby pay phone, called 911 for an ambulance, and was sitting on the curb waiting for the paramedics when they arrived. The bullet failed to expand, but a .44 magnum should have still did a number on him, expansion or no expansion.



As I understand, unless expansion occurs, a bullet is doing no more damage that it's diameter unless it's ~2000fps or higher. Above that, hydrostatic shock comes into play, damaging the surrounding area. That .44 Magnum probably did no more damage than a .45ACP FMJ.

It's been said time and time again:


Handguns are handguns and rifles are rifles.



So an FN FiveseveN with bullets doing 2200 FPS should have a hydro static effect?



2200?? Seems to me like it spends more time closer to 1700-1900fps.



SS192 has to be fired on range capabile of handling 2200 fps. I can't shoot it on the indoor pistol range.

Now SS196 is closer to 1800 FPS.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 10:00:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MonkTx:

Originally Posted By Tannim:
on the same page:

video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2783606066836182688&pl=true



That second one is just a little bit fake.



Yeah, they dropped that guy with the first 9mm shot..... We all know that would never happen.....total fake.

Link Posted: 4/1/2006 10:06:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NightWatchman:

Originally Posted By red65:
First of all, I love that video of the clerk blasting that asshole. How do I download it?

Second, here's what I have learned since I started reading this site:

12 ga = only works close in, say 10 ft.

38 special = laughable, pathetic, about on par with 22 lr

9mm = just wounds, then the bad guy takes your gun away and beats you up

357 = totally obsolete, was considered etremely deadly until 1985, not anymore

40 = amazingly deadly

45acp = quite literally a death ray. makes bad guy fly backwards with giant basketball sized hole

223 = perfect for everything, including 600 yd shots on deer









Everything I needed to know I learned on ARFCOM.

Link Posted: 4/1/2006 10:11:25 AM EDT
Shot placement.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 11:07:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tannim:

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:

Originally Posted By guardian855:
Chuck Taylor writes in one of his Combat Handgun books about a case where a guy was shot with a .44 Magnum hollowpoint round in the chest at point blank range. The bullet passed through the chest and buried itself in the wall behind the victim. Shooter ran off, and the victim walked to a nearby pay phone, called 911 for an ambulance, and was sitting on the curb waiting for the paramedics when they arrived. The bullet failed to expand, but a .44 magnum should have still did a number on him, expansion or no expansion.



As I understand, unless expansion occurs, a bullet is doing no more damage that it's diameter unless it's ~2000fps or higher. Above that, hydrostatic shock comes into play, damaging the surrounding area. That .44 Magnum probably did no more damage than a .45ACP FMJ.

It's been said time and time again:


Handguns are handguns and rifles are rifles.



So an FN FiveseveN with bullets doing 2200 FPS should have a hydro static effect?



Hydro static Shock is a bullshit. Read:

www.firearmstactical.com/briefs3.htm


And read this, especially the last paragraph which sums of things nicely:

www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

Link Posted: 4/1/2006 11:14:53 AM EDT
Carry what you want. I switched from .40 to 9mm (for carry) when I found out about the huge improvements in defensive loads. I still think the .45 is king. I've shot feral hogs with .45 golden sabers and they went DOWN. With the .40, it would not penetrate the side plate of the hog. Forget ballistic gelatin, shoot hogs.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 11:26:05 AM EDT
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