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Link Posted: 4/1/2006 3:49:27 PM EDT
[#1]

Quoted:
for some reason i dont trust any man that does not like guns or blowing shit up



A big ol' plus one right there. I tell ya what.  I don't cre who ya are, that's true 'nuff.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 8:10:25 AM EDT
[#2]

Quoted:
Ahh, just the type of shooter we need, they'll sell us all down the river. No wonder its so hard getting things changed.

Fuckin' Bubba's and their "Whadda ya need one of them there black rifles fer?" mentality.

Assholes, all of them...


Sorry, but you are sadly mistaken.

The 'fuckin' Bubbas' are more likely to favor assault rifles than some fancy pants blue state duck hunter who looks down his pinched nose at just about everything.

You know, the classic Yankee asshat....the folks who have already sold their own states down the river.

Eric The(MasonDixon)Hun
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 8:14:12 AM EDT
[#3]

Quoted:
This co-worker knows I enjoy shooting and made a condescending remark about people who have "assault rifles".  Suggesting that I might be compensating for something or some other such nonsense.

Well, since it was break time I started discussing the matter of gun ownership with him.  He seems like a pretty smart guy.

Well, we discuss the Bill of Rights and what actually ensures our freedoms.  The first thing he does is suggest that the Bill of Rights is not a true part of the Constitution, and that it's the Constitution (excluding the B of R) that makes us free.  How?  Simply because we (as a people) accept the Constitution.  Another co-worker nearby jumped in to defend the B of R as most definately a part of our Constitution.

Next he argues that defending oneself, at home, with a gun is bad because you might shoot through a wall and hit a neighbor or your kid in the next room.  I told him that gun owners are concerned about the same thing and prepare accordingly.

Next he says, "I'd rather be attacked by a man with a knife than a man with a machinegun.  I can at least run away from the man with a knife."   To which I respond, "Whether it's a knife or machine gun I'm attacked with, I'd prefer to be able to shoot back to defend myself from the threat."  My co-worker audibly gasped at this concept.

Sean, my co-worker, then pointed out a recent high profile case where a man drew his gun when approached by an angry group of people who were threatening him with large stones in their hands.  Sean spouted off a bunch of completely false notions regarding the situation.  Having followed the incident a little, I pointed out that Sean knew nothing of what happened and was making false accusations that were completely inconsistant with all the reports on the incident.

He then goes on to criticize gun rights groups for suggesting that there is a slippery slope when it comes to banning firearms.  According to him, there is no slippery slope and it would be impossible to take away guns he approves of (deer rifles, shotguns, etc.)  I asked him what the difference is, functionally, between a "sniper rifle" and a deer rifle.  He admited that there is no real functional difference.  He admitted that if the government wanted to confiscate deer rifles, all it would have to do is call it a potential "sniper rifle."

The next argument he made was that people shouldn't be able to carry guns because "feeling threatened" is an emotional response, and according to my co-worker it is wrong to use a firearm in response to an emotional feeling.  He refused to accept that a person can make a logical judgement in regards to a "perceived" threat?  At this point I was becoming a little frustrated with his comments and said, "it's common for people who can't control their own emotions to project their lack of control on others, and assume that others lack self control."

Hearing this he responded, "I just don't like it when people get shot."

I immediately responded, "I don't either.  Unfortunately it is sometimes necessary to defend oneself or to defend other innocent people who are being attacked."

Seeing his obstinance, I ended the discussion at that point and went back to my desk.

Some observations:
Each time my co-worker, Sean, was shown the holes in his arguments, he immediately switched gears and tried a new angle/argument to use.  He never acknowledged the problems with his own reasoning, but simply tried to divert the argument in hopes of proving gun ownership wrong.

He continually made blatantly uninformed comments, going so far as to suggest that the Bill of Rights isn't really a part of the Constitution.

In the end, it was abundantly clear that his stance against guns was entirely based on his own emotional reactions to guns, and his emotional reaction to those who posess guns.

Frankly, I don't think our conversation helped him at all.  He seems to have entrenched himself emotionally, and won't look at the issue any other way.




The part in red shows he knows nothing about defending himself. At contact range a knife is far more deadly than a firearm.

Don't argue with fools because from a distance folks might not know who is who.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 8:17:58 AM EDT
[#4]
For a direct and wanton violation of "the code" I hearby request that your co-worker, "Sean" immediately recind his man card.  From this day forward, all rights and priveliges are revoked.  Make sure that he goes pee pee while sitting down.  
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 8:30:42 AM EDT
[#5]

 I think you wasted way too much time arguing with that dickhead .  You can't change their minds ,no matter how logical you are . And that thing about him hoping that you aren't angry ------
Be careful . Those kinds of people are the ones that make anonymous calls to Human Resources
and make you'r life miserable .
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 8:32:08 AM EDT
[#6]
Invite him to go shooting with you sometime.  Maybe actually handling and shooting a gun would change his views.

Utah has it's share of libtards too, but luckily it is not as high a percentage of other states (like mine).

I've only had one serious workplace discussion about guns and luckily both of the women I was discussing with were from Texas and were comfortable with guns and sympathetic to RKBA principals.

One used to answer the door with her cocked 9mm which I thought was a little EXTREME when you live in base housing.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 8:43:24 AM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 9:13:04 AM EDT
[#8]
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 9:48:51 AM EDT
[#9]
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 10:02:50 AM EDT
[#10]
IMO, All gun owners should bite their tongues when it comes to the "why do you need that" argument. We have people on here that will argue against the need or practicality of , Hi-caps(pistol mags/betas), AR pistols etc. etc. Then  there are hunters who say why do you need an assault rifle. You know what I'm saying, and if you have been here more than a week, you have probably read statements like these. The anti gun libs could kill us with our on words. IMO whatever the issue, a fellow gunner should never say, " you don't need that" or ask "why do you need that". Some believe Beta mags are useless, as well as a 45 that will hold 14rds, or  bump firing is stupid. Again FWIW  Everyone has the right to their on opinion, but somtimes I think they should keep it to themselves, especially on a public forum....Treeman
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 11:17:48 AM EDT
[#11]
I know it sometimes seems like a losing battle to talk with anti-gun people.  Sometimes I have success.  That's the only reason I try educating them at all.

Over a year ago I had a similar discussion with the CIO of the company.  He blatantly stated, "the only people who need to carry handguns are either police or criminals."  He came from more of an "Elmer Fudd" background when it came to firearms.

Certainly seemed like a complete loss, but I loaned him the book More Guns Less Crime by John Lott.  Not a perfect book, but it presents the argument in favor of concealed carry in an intelligent manner.

Well, after holding onto the book for almost a year, the CIO finally got around to reading it.  Now he not only supports the idea of concealed carry, but expresses amazement that some polititians actually oppose concealed carry.

I figure that helping change the world one person at a time is still better than nothing.

Sean really does seem like a lost cause, but I'll hang onto hope at least until I've had a chance to invite him to go shooting this next week.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 10:08:04 AM EDT
[#12]
Update:

I invited Sean to go shooting.  He said no.  He said he had limited time and would rather do his other hobbies such as kayaking.


He's also changed his tune.  Now he says, "I'm not against shooting.  I've shot at clays before."  He shot at launched clays with a rifle!  When I expressed concern about shooting a rifle upwards into the air he responded, "It's ok, we had lots of land to shoot on."  He's also shot birds and other animals for sport.  Not hunting, mind you, but  indiscriminate killing.

I understand that there are pests that need to be shot when encountered, but I'm not a big fan of indiscriminate killing.

Ironically, he admitted that he might be interested in shooting when I finish my evil Romy AK build project.  I'm not sure I want to take him shooting now.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 10:14:05 AM EDT
[#13]

Quoted:
He shot at launched clays with a rifle!  When I expressed concern about shooting a rifle upwards into the air he responded, "It's ok, we had lots of land to shoot on."  

I've shot at thrown clays with a rifle, but I had a mountain range as a backstop.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 10:15:20 AM EDT
[#14]
"Of course I'm compensating for something. If I could shoot people with my dick, I wouldn't need a gun".
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 10:20:08 AM EDT
[#15]

Quoted:
"Of course I'm compensating for something. If I could shoot people with my dick, I wouldn't need a gun".





Jesus dude.... I actually laughed out loud.   That was outstanding!
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