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Posted: 3/30/2006 9:27:00 PM EDT
Didn't find a previous posting.

From the LA Times

A sheriff's deputy fatally shot himself this morning, apparently by accident while cleaning his handgun, becoming the fourth deputy to die in the last two weeks, authorities said today.

Paul Wilms, 38, of Ontario, was found about 5 a.m. at his desk in an annex to the City of Industry substation of the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department. Wilms was married and had two children, according to the department.

"It appears he shot himself while he was cleaning his weapon," said Capt. Ray Peavy, commander of the sheriff's homicide investigators. "Everything appears to point to an accident."

The annex where the deputy died is across the street from the substation, at 150 N. Hudson St. The deputy had gone off duty before midnight, authorities said.


Wilms was found with a single gunshot wound to the chest. Gun-cleaning paraphernalia was found on his desk, Peavy said. The empty clip from his service handgun was on the desk, leading authorities to theorize that a round in the gun was in the firing position when the deputy handled it.

"It's quite easy to get distracted and leave a round in the chamber," Peavy said. "That round can be fired."

Wilms was a 17-year veteran of the department.

Sheriff Lee Baca was at the scene early this morning.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:29:56 PM EDT
Bet it was a Glock. I hate that you have to pull the trigger to take down a Glock.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:31:17 PM EDT
LAPD uses Berettas do they not?
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:34:50 PM EDT
A tragedy, but jumping jeezus STEP 1: CLEAR THE FUCKING WEAPON!!!!!!



--VT
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:37:37 PM EDT
Yikes.

You know, mine are ALWAYS loaded. That's not just a frame of mind, either. My carry piece really IS always loaded. If I pull the slide back and fail to see a round flying out, I get curious.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:40:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:40:53 PM EDT
I often wonder if these cases are "suicide with sympathy" to those left behind.

Seems like we have a lot of people with multiple decades of experience that die from single gunshots while "cleaning" their weapon.

Sad to hear it happened.

Something to consider.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:41:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SubnetMask:
Yikes.

You know, mine are ALWAYS loaded. That's not just a frame of mind, either. My carry piece really IS always loaded. If I pull the slide back and fail to see a round flying out, I get curious.



Plus one. I have 3 of em that way.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:41:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
LAPD uses Berettas do they not?



It wasn't LAPD, it was LA county sheriff
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:47:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/31/2006 9:43:02 PM EDT by txgp17]

Wilms was found with a single gunshot wound to the chest. Gun-cleaning paraphernalia was found on his desk, Peavy said. The empty clip from his service handgun was on the desk, leading authorities to theorize that a round in the gun was in the firing position when the deputy handled it.
Hello McFly, the gun went off, ya think there might have been a round in the chamber?
for a hard working father, I hope the best for his family.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:59:10 PM EDT
You know, mine are ALWAYS loaded. That's not just a frame of mind, either. My carry piece really IS always loaded. If I pull the slide back and fail to see a round flying out, I get curious

Same way here partially. I unchamber the guns (2x) everymorning. And rechamber them every night. Im not into scaring would be intruders with a racking sound of a slide. I would rather just pop em without them hearing anything then call 911.

I always think my weapons are loaded. SO far the only negligent discharge I have ever had was a stain on the curtain. Cause I couldnt find a towel
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 10:20:33 PM EDT
What happened with the other four?
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 10:29:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NME:
What happened with the other four?



Do you mean the other 3?

On Tuesday, an off-duty sheriff's deputy, Maria Cecelia Rosa, 30, was found shot to death in a driveway in Long Beach. The murder has mystified investigators, who have established no motive or identified any suspects.

Last week, a deputy died in a traffic accident and a retired deputy collapsed and died while running in the Los Angeles Marathon.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 11:00:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 11:07:38 PM EDT by chrome1]
Sounds like a Suicide made to appear accidental

Especially when you consider he was married with kids .
He was off duty for hours . Yet not at home for his family to see ,
and that many life insurance policy’s pay double for accidents and
ZERO for suicides .

Then there’s the fact that the vast majority of self inflicted
wounds due to ND's are in the hands or legs .
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 1:48:14 AM EDT
How many people disassemble their pistols with the barrels pointed at their chests, anyway? It would seem a bit counterintuitive, given the takedown procedures of most weapons.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 2:01:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By chrome1:
Sounds like a Suicide made to appear accidental

Especially when you consider he was married with kids .
He was off duty for hours . Yet not at home for his family to see ,
and that many life insurance policy’s pay double for accidents and
ZERO for suicides .

Then there’s the fact that the vast majority of self inflicted
wounds due to ND's are in the hands or legs .



Thats only true usually in the first 2 years of the policy. After that they will pay out the regular amount. It is true that a lot of policies have double out for accidents.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 2:31:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
There is a great deal of political reason to declare these things an accident rather than a suicide.



I was thinking the same thing. I can't think of any time I would be cleaning my gun(s) and be in the process and have it pointed at myself and have a finger on the trigger.

Yeag, take the mag out, rack the slide, immediately remove slide. At what point do you point it at yourself in that process?

I'm not a Glock lover (not a glock basher either) but even though you have to pull the trigger to disassemble... at what point do you do that with it pointing at you? I can see am ND during the cleaning process, but not aiming back at you. How does that happen. Isn't there just a "this feels wrong" aspect to pulling the trigger FOR ANY REASON with the gun pointing back at you?

No Expert
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 2:36:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/31/2006 2:40:03 AM EDT by MTUSA]

Originally Posted By otto-nyc:
I often wonder if these cases are "suicide with sympathy" to those left behind.

Seems like we have a lot of people with multiple decades of experience that die from single gunshots while "cleaning" their weapon.

Sad to hear it happened.

Something to consider.




Sad story but you could be right. Insurance pays well. Seems impossible (for me)
to field strip My Glock with muzzle pointed at my chest. Accident my ass
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 3:03:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Pthfndr:
"It's quite easy to get distracted and leave a round in the chamber," Peavy said.



The only thing that's easier is to ALWAYS clear the damn thing when you pick it up.

A tragedy either way. but certainly a questionable story.

Link Posted: 3/31/2006 3:05:16 AM EDT
That sucks. RIP.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 3:09:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
There is a great deal of political reason to declare these things an accident rather than a suicide.



+1, 'cause I always point my gun at my chest when taking it down....
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 4:04:38 AM EDT
Pointing the gun at his chest while he's cleaning it? Yeah, right. This guy ate lead, and nobody wants to admit it.

Sucks, esp. if he had to leave a wife and kids behind. If things were so bad, why didn't he get some help, or just quit?

Or, did somebody else shoot him?
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 4:12:36 AM EDT
Is his dog ok?
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 4:19:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
There is a great deal of political reason to declare these things an accident rather than a suicide.



I hate having to agree with such a grim conclusion, but there isn't any way around it. What is truly sad is that few outside the "gunny" community will ever draw this conclusion and that this will be chalked up as yet another senseless gun death and used as proof that guns "go off by themselves" or some other crap.

Link Posted: 3/31/2006 4:29:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
There is a great deal of political reason to declare these things an accident rather than a suicide.




Agree 100%!


Also, doesn't the cop's family get a bunch of benefits if it's an accident, where they get none or reduced benefits if it's a suicide? I would guess that a cop that plans to shoot himself could get more benefits for his family by simply putting some gun cleaning gear on the desk prior to shooting himself, so it's declared an accident.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 4:33:05 AM EDT
Suicide.

How many here have ever had a fully assembled gun pointed at their chest while doing ANYTHING?

Nevermind the fact that there is no step in cleaning anygun that would have the possibility of it being loaded, pointed at your chest, and fired accidently.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 4:36:09 AM EDT
Suicide. There was a big study done about 10 years ago...many "accidents" attributed to gun-cleaning are suicides which are cleaned up so that the survivor gets their life insurance and a Catholic burial. A buddy of mine's uncle died "cleaning his gun", everyone knew it was suicide.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 4:37:31 AM EDT
Sounds like there is a purging of the ranks going on. I wonder which side is doing it though.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 8:23:50 PM EDT
Berettas don't have magazine disconnects. I wonder if his off-duty piece has a magazine disconnect and he had one last fatal brain fart?

That's why I hate magazine disconnects, too many guys forget to check chambers after dropping the magazine and find out the hard way they forgot.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 8:34:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By joker581:

Nevermind the fact that there is no step in cleaning anygun that would have the possibility of it being loaded, pointed at your chest, and fired accidently.



never took down a glock or XD have you? there are a few guys on this board who have put one through their hand (twonami) being one of them because of the trigger pull issue
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 4:55:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2006 7:07:34 AM EDT by Rocketman]
I've had an ND with a pistol.

Dropped the mag, got distracted, failed to rack the slide, pointed the weapon in a SAFE direction, pulled the trigger and the freaking thing went off.

INSIDE my Ford Bronco with the windows rolled up no less. 115gr Corbon round went thru the passinger side floorboard, right thru the center of the trucks computer brain. Try explaining that down at the local Ford dealer.

When I called to tell them I was coming by to pick it up, the mechanic dude yelled out to his buddies at the shop "lock the doors, hide the women and children, that guy who killed his truck is coming back!

A true story with a happy ending but only because I kept the weapon pointed in a SAFE direction. This is the first law of gun saftey. Period.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 5:38:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BigBang:

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
LAPD uses Berettas do they not?



It wasn't LAPD, it was LA county sheriff


From what I understand LASO/LASD are authorized to carry Berettas 92s and S&W 9mms pistols.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 5:41:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NME:
What happened with the other four?


latimes.com
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-deputy31mar31,0,5823476.story?coll=la-home-local
From the Los Angeles Times
3 Deaths in a Week Hit Agency Hard
Sheriff's Department is reeling at the loss of the deputies. The latest fatality resulted from a gun-cleaning accident at the Industry station.
By Richard Winton, J. Michael Kennedy and Nancy Wride
Times Staff Writers

March 31, 2006

Deputy Paul Wilms specialized in working with at-risk youths around the San Gabriel Valley — a lawman described by Sheriff Lee Baca as someone "who probably saved hundreds of lives" through his intervention.

Maria Cecilia Rosa was a fresh-faced deputy who did her work from behind a desk at the County Jail but was soon to make the move to the streets as a patrol officer.

Pierre Bain was a veteran motorcycle cop who patrolled the wide-open high desert of Lancaster and took his job so seriously that he issued 2,000 tickets last year.

All the deputies were killed over the last week in a series of blows that has left the Sheriff's Department reeling.

Wilms was found dead in the Industry station Thursday after accidentally shooting himself while cleaning his gun.

Two days before, Rosa was gunned down in the driveway of a Long Beach home as she prepared to go to work. And March 23, Bain died after his motorcycle crashed during a chase in Lancaster.

"We're in a fluctuation of sadness and anger and sadness again," said an emotional Baca on Thursday after comforting deputies at the Industry station. "Whenever you have multiple series of deaths, you have compounded grief."

It is the proximity of their deaths that has drawn attention to three deputies who may well have never met in a far-flung 9,000-person agency.

"I cannot remember a series of killings like this in all my 34 years in the department," said Capt. John Franklin as he stood near the Industry station soon after Wilms' body was discovered.

To some, Wilms' death felt almost surreal, because sheriff's personnel already had the customary black sashes over their badges to memorialize Rosa and Bain.

"No man or woman who wears the badge can say it doesn't affect them," Baca said. "But three deaths in seven or eight days can challenge the best of them."



At the Inmate Reception Center in downtown Los Angeles, where Maria Cecilia Rosa worked with many colleagues who came through the Sheriff's Academy together, the mood for the last few days has been distinctly somber, said Capt. Tim Cornell, who worked daily with the young deputy.

"People are pretty well devastated here," he said. "There was a tight bond, particularly with academy classmates here."

Rosa, 30, was known for her bright smile and enthusiastic attitude, even at the routine jail paperwork that she frequently had to handle. But she was also tough — something friends said stemmed from losing both parents when she was 13.

Rosa was born in the Mexican state of Sonora, the youngest of six children. She graduated from Gilroy High School in Northern California and Long Beach City College. Before becoming a deputy, she worked as a dental hygienist.

She was fresh out of high school when she arrived for a three-month internship at the Long Beach practice of Len Cutuli in 2004.

"She was a good hygienist," Cutuli said Thursday. "She anticipated my needs and kept my line of vision clear."

"It's so unfair, and she didn't deserve this," he said. "I hope they catch who did this, but unfortunately that won't bring Cecy back to life."

Rosa joined the Sheriff's Department in 2000, wanting something more for her life.

On the quiet, leafy street where she often stayed at fellow Deputy Jenny Martin's mint-colored stucco home, the trash can had been rolled to the curb for pickup Thursday morning, and potted plants — an iris and daisies — amassed at the brick pathway to the door. The two had been best friends for years — long before Rosa joined the Sheriff's Department — and both their families hailed from the same town outside Guadalajara, Mexico.

Rosa had a home in Pomona but spent a good deal of time at Martin's. They shared a black dog.

Next-door neighbor Ida Barnett said that the woman with shoulder-length brown hair whom she knew as Cecy was friendly and thoughtful, and that both deputies had given her their contact information should she fall or need help.

"That was very nice of them," said Barnett, a retiree who has lived on the street 29 years.

Rosa was fatally shot outside Martin's home Tuesday as she prepared to leave for work. Detectives said they are investigating the possibility that she was the victim of a robbery and are searching for two young men who were seen riding bikes near the home about the time of the slaying.

In recent months, Rosa had been eager to finally leave the jail system and go on patrol, an assignment she considered more challenging and interesting.

"She was looking forward to getting out on the street," Cutuli said.



In Lancaster, Deputy Pierre Bain's co-workers and colleagues retired his call number Thursday in one last ritual to acknowledge their loss.

The motorcycle officer was pursuing a speeding van last week when his bike was clipped by a car that swerved into his lane. He was thrown from his motorcycle and hit first one tree, then another, suffering massive injuries.

In a final roll call Thursday, about 35 deputies paused midmorning as a dispatcher called their names and numbers over the radio. It is a procedure typically performed during an emergency: Each deputy responds, no matter where he or she is in the field, to let headquarters know no deputies have been hurt.

As each name was called, deputies talked about their memories of Bain or sent messages of condolence to his wife and three daughters, who were listening.

His partner, John White, remembered him as a joy to work with, a man with a hilarious sense of humor and a talent for befriending the motorists he had just ticketed.

"Pierre was a people person," White said. "There was no 'License, registration, insurance, have-a-nice-day' routine for him. When it was over, people would even thank him for giving them tickets."

Just last week a colleague passed by while Bain was writing a ticket and returned a few minutes later to find the deputy and the motorist both looking under the hood of the driver's vehicle, enthusiastically discussing diesel engines.

Thursday morning, after each deputy had had a say about Bain, the dispatcher called his number one last time: one-11-Mary-four — 111M4.

They waited through the silence, then the dispatcher announced that roll call was over.



Paul Wilms, 38, was as much a social worker as he was a cop. To many children in the eastern San Gabriel Valley, he was the guy who gave them a chance to make more of their lives through the area's youth activities league, said Lt. Bondell L. Golden, head of the Sheriff's Youth Foundation.

"He really touched the lives of children," Golden said. "He ensured that children in the community learned to trust deputies and tore down some of the barriers."

For the last three years, the 17-year department veteran had been head of the foundation's All-American soapbox derby, an activity Wilms and his family had been involved in for many years.

"He helped put on the only sanctioned soapbox derby for at-risk kids in the nation, and he would take the winner to the national soapbox derby in Akron, Ohio," Golden said.

Authorities believe that Wilms was cleaning his weapon either Wednesday evening or Thursday morning in an annex to the Industry station when he accidentally shot himself in the upper body.

Capt. Ray Peavy said that there were cleaning materials on the desk and an unloaded magazine clip but that it appeared a single round remained in the chamber and was fired.

Det. Phillip Solano's last memory of Wilms was opening the door for his colleague as the two entered the station Wednesday.

"He was a real good guy, a real nice guy," Solano said. "There's going to be a lot of sad people for a long time."

*

Times staff writers Cynthia H. Cho and Lisa Richardson contributed to this report.

Copyright 2006 Los Angeles Times

partners: KTLA Hoy
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 5:47:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:

Originally Posted By joker581:

Nevermind the fact that there is no step in cleaning anygun that would have the possibility of it being loaded, pointed at your chest, and fired accidently.



never took down a glock or XD have you? there are a few guys on this board who have put one through their hand (twonami) being one of them because of the trigger pull issue


But I would never point it at my chest.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 6:23:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rocketman:
I've had an ND with a pistol.

Dropped the mag, got distracted, failed to rack the slide, pointed the weapon in a SAFE direction, pulled the trigger and the freaking thing went off.

INSIDE my Ford Bronco with the windows rolled up no less. 115gr Corbon round went thru the passinger side floorboard, stright thru the center of the trucks computer brain. Try explaining that down at the local Ford dealer.

When I called to tell them I was coming by to pick it up, the mechanic dude yelled out to his buddies at the shop "lock the doors, hide the women and children, that guy who killed his truck is coming back!

A true story with a happy ending but only because I kept the weapon pointed in a SAFE direction. This is the first law of gun saftey. Period.



Thats hilarious. I am sure you were a little sheepish.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 6:42:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
LAPD uses Berettas do they not?



beretta, glock, sig-
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 7:10:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2006 7:11:29 AM EDT by Rocketman]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted By Rocketman:
I've had an ND with a pistol.

Dropped the mag, got distracted, failed to rack the slide, pointed the weapon in a SAFE direction, pulled the trigger and the freaking thing went off.

INSIDE my Ford Bronco with the windows rolled up no less. 115gr Corbon round went thru the passinger side floorboard, right thru the center of the trucks computer brain. Try explaining that down at the local Ford dealer.

When I called to tell them I was coming by to pick it up, the mechanic dude yelled out to his buddies at the shop "lock the doors, hide the women and children, that guy who killed his truck is coming back!

A true story with a happy ending but only because I kept the weapon pointed in a SAFE direction. This is the first law of gun saftey. Period.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Thats hilarious. I am sure you were a little sheepish.
____________________________________________

Yup a lot of people had a lot of fun with that one at my expense. I used to have the computer I hit. 9mm hole right thru the center of it.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 7:31:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2006 7:31:54 AM EDT by warlord]

Originally Posted By sprist:

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
LAPD uses Berettas do they not?



beretta, glock, sig-


I think since Bill Bratten became LAPD chief, the Glock has been also authorized.
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