It may not be much but Im done walking into McPepe's or Burger King or any of the rest where the place is stocked full of non citizens except maybe the counter help. I will patronize the locally owned greasy spoon that I can see usually has US emplyees. Hell I might even loose some weight in the process.
Anyway Im going to do my best to not spend money where english isnt the language of choice in all things.  
I already mailed McSanchez's and Burger King wont take email, I called them direct and gave them a earfull.
Im not sure other than calling my elected non listening polititons what else I can do short of heading to the border with full mags and a shovel, which wouldnt bother me a bit either.

And how exactly do you know there illegals?

then you shouldnt live in your house, shop at home depot, buy fruit or juice and on and on and on

Quoted: And how exactly do you know there illegals?

Tell ya what want to take bets that the ones who cant or wont speak english are legal???  Your going to go broke.

Quoted: Quoted: And how exactly do you know there illegals? Tell ya what want to take bets that the ones who cant or wont speak english are legal???  Your going to go broke.

I know alot that prefer to speak there native language and are US citizens. So actually, we might break even.

Quoted: then you shouldnt live in your house, shop at home depot, buy fruit or juice and on and on and on

Well the Dunkard/German Babtist guys who built my house would be suprised at that one.
I dont shop at Home Depot and how much OJ comes from south of the border?
I cant totally get around it BUT I wont willingly help illegals make money if I can. Sounds like I may have got a little close to the bone.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: And how exactly do you know there illegals? Tell ya what want to take bets that the ones who cant or wont speak english are legal???  Your going to go broke. I know alot that prefer to speak there native language and are US citizens. So actually, we might break even.

Ten years ago I wouldnt give a shit what language they use with each other but nowdays Im to the point of SPEAK ENGLISH OR GO HOME!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: And how exactly do you know there illegals? Tell ya what want to take bets that the ones who cant or wont speak english are legal???  Your going to go broke. I know alot that prefer to speak there native language and are US citizens. So actually, we might break even. Ten years ago I wouldnt give a shit what language they use with each other but nowdays Im to the point of SPEAK ENGLISH OR GO HOME!

I agree, but we as the USA do not have an "official" language.

Quoted: Quoted: then you shouldnt live in your house, shop at home depot, buy fruit or juice and on and on and on Well the Dunkard/German Babtist guys who built my house would be suprised at that one. I dont shop at Home Depot and how much OJ comes from south of the border? I cant totally get around it BUT I wont willingly help illegals make money if I can. Sounds like I may have got a little close to the bone.

ever been to an orange grove in FL (and i assume CA)

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: then you shouldnt live in your house, shop at home depot, buy fruit or juice and on and on and on Well the Dunkard/German Babtist guys who built my house would be suprised at that one. I dont shop at Home Depot and how much OJ comes from south of the border? I cant totally get around it BUT I wont willingly help illegals make money if I can. Sounds like I may have got a little close to the bone. ever been to an orange grove in FL (and i assume CA)

So your on the side of just rolling over and giving the southwest to mexico? I presume you want to abandon the history of the USA and just start teaching spanish in the schools? So how are you related to some of our finest and newest residents??

Only thing that bothers me is spanish in the workplace, outside the workplace I just ignore it. But it is NOT fair when we have to cater to non-english speakers in a production enviroment, at my  employer we constantly have to find a translator, print out handouts twice in english and spanish all that bullshit. fuck that, it just slows us down.

I was in a national fast food chain last night. The whole crew was speaking espanol. No biggie.

BUT, the were friggen cranking the "ranchero" musica! Quite irritating. I called the customer service # of the chain. What will happen? Jack Squat. Almost everyone they employ is a recent arrival.

I would be pissed if some gabacho/gringo teenagers were cranking Eminem.

The temperature of this issue has gone up radically in recent days. Did you have a friggen clue those marches were going to happen? They are a nation apart. There will be no assimilation with the numbers that will be legalized. This is not good for the USA.

Quoted: It may not be much but Im done walking into McPepe's or Burger King or any of the rest where the place is stocked full of non citizens except maybe the counter help. I will patronize the locally owned greasy spoon that I can see usually has US emplyees. Hell I might even loose some weight in the process. Anyway Im going to do my best to not spend money where english isnt the language of choice in all things.   I already mailed McSanchez's and Burger King wont take email, I called them direct and gave them a earfull. Im not sure other than calling my elected non listening polititons what else I can do short of heading to the border with full mags and a shovel, which wouldnt bother me a bit either.

who the hell do  you think works in the kitchen?

Have fun starving, as 45% of all agricultural labor is provided by migrant workers.

Quoted: Quoted: It may not be much but Im done walking into McPepe's or Burger King or any of the rest where the place is stocked full of non citizens except maybe the counter help. I will patronize the locally owned greasy spoon that I can see usually has US emplyees. Hell I might even loose some weight in the process. Anyway Im going to do my best to not spend money where english isnt the language of choice in all things.   I already mailed McSanchez's and Burger King wont take email, I called them direct and gave them a earfull. Im not sure other than calling my elected non listening polititons what else I can do short of heading to the border with full mags and a shovel, which wouldnt bother me a bit either. who the hell do  you think works in the kitchen?

As a manager of a national casual dining restaurant chain, I have to inspect the paperwork of every employee I hire that shows that they are legally allowed to work in the United States.  These forms of ID must be a SS card, drivers lic or ID card, work permit, resident alien, passport or a few other forms of ID.  While it is possible to get fakes of these forms of ID, the penalties for hiring someone who is not legal are fines up to $10,000 PER VIOLATION.  I don't know of any nationally reconized business that wants to risk that.  I know I don't.

Anyway Im going to do my best to not spend money where english isnt the language of choice in all things.

I'm with ya, good thing I live in NH because I love those $.99 double cheesburgers from Mickey D's

At least the mexicans get my order right.

Inner city teenagers are 100% American, and can't manage to get a complex order like "No5 value meal, large with a coke" right.

The illegals don't even speak my language, but they can find #5 and coke on the fucking touch screen and hand it to me.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It may not be much but Im done walking into McPepe's or Burger King or any of the rest where the place is stocked full of non citizens except maybe the counter help. I will patronize the locally owned greasy spoon that I can see usually has US emplyees. Hell I might even loose some weight in the process. Anyway Im going to do my best to not spend money where english isnt the language of choice in all things.   I already mailed McSanchez's and Burger King wont take email, I called them direct and gave them a earfull. Im not sure other than calling my elected non listening polititons what else I can do short of heading to the border with full mags and a shovel, which wouldnt bother me a bit either. who the hell do  you think works in the kitchen? As a manager of a national casual dining restaurant chain, I have to inspect the paperwork of every employee I hire that shows that they are legally allowed to work in the United States.  These forms of ID must be a SS card, drivers lic or ID card, work permit, resident alien, passport or a few other forms of ID.  While it is possible to get fakes of these forms of ID, the penalties for hiring someone who is not legal are fines up to $10,000 PER VIOLATION.  I don't know of any nationally reconized business that wants to risk that.  I know I don't.

So - are you saying that they dont do this at McDonalds? And if they do - then the original poster should take note.

ETA emphasis initially intended to be added.

As a manager of a national casual dining restaurant chain, I have to inspect the paperwork of every employee I hire that shows that they are legally allowed to work in the United States. These forms of ID must be a SS card, drivers lic or ID card, work permit, resident alien, passport or a few other forms of ID. While it is possible to get fakes of these forms of ID, the penalties for hiring someone who is not legal are fines up to $10,000 PER VIOLATION. I don't know of any nationally reconized business that wants to risk that. I know I don't.

What a crock of shit. I have called the INS you get an answering machine. AAnd they wont return phone calls unless you give them a number and name for contact. I feel real comfortable informing on my co workers and then later letting them know It was me who did it..... yeah right.
Illegals depress wages. They dont take the jobs no americans want. They just take the jobs americans cant afford to take with the depressed wages they are offering

I heve a plan to end illegal immigration and REWARD the hard working illegals

We should not go after Illegal immigrants. We should reward them.
First part of plan is to go after employers of illegal immigrants. Increase the fines to 50000 per illegal and institute mandatory minimum sentence of 2 years in prison plus community service building a wall on the borders.

Second part of plan is reward the Us citizens for finding all employers of illegals. Say 20 percent of fines against employers or 10000 dollars which ever is greater.

Third part of plan is guest worker program. Under the guest worker program any one can immigrate here. However for there first 5 years they must be paid 55.00 dollars an hour. The employer will pay this to the goverment who will inturn issue pay checks to the Guest worker.

All Illegals captured after the 30 day grace period will be deported back to mexico or antartica their choice. However first they must serve community service building the wall or testing the mine feilds built at the border. For this they will be paid 12 dollars an hour until the work is completed. They may even work with their former employers. Taxes and lodging will of course be taken out.

Your thoughts please discuss.

I was a fence sitter b4 cause many of the anti immigrant crowd seems top be attached to the 88s. But after seeing all the mexican flags and the azlatan crap in LA and chicago. Im on the RIGHT side of the fence.
So my plan not only is not racist, it also helps the guest worker attain middle class right away.
That is of course if a employer wants some one to work for them at 55 an hour.

Quoted: Your thoughts please discuss.

My thoughts?

Your plan, while feel-goody, would bankrupt about 10,000 large companies overnight, including agriculture which REALLY fucks things up for you and me. These companies deserve it, in a way, but it would tank the economy like a fucking cement truck tied to a swimmer's ankle - really fast.

So, how do you cope with that little hiccup?

I'm 100% for cutting off illegals, but I also understand how tied to our economy they are. How do we fix the problem without fucking up the $$??

Quoted: Quoted: Your thoughts please discuss. My thoughts? Your plan, while feel-goody, would bankrupt about 10,000 large companies overnight, including agriculture which REALLY fucks things up for you and me. These companies deserve it, in a way, but it would tank the economy like a fucking cement truck tied to a swimmer's ankle - really fast. So, how do you cope with that little hiccup? I'm 100% for cutting off illegals, but I also understand how tied to our economy they are. How do we fix the problem without fucking up the $$??

Only Companies that insist on gambling with breaking the Law> A former company I worked at didnt geive raises to anyone, Citizen that is. I asked why I wasnt getting a raise and was told
"i did a great job, good attendance gets along with everyone, But those guys over there we pay 10 an hour for"<---pointing to illegals. When they had enough illegals My free medical insurance became 70 a week. And when the union tried to organise the company, the owner told the illegals he would shut down the plant and find out who was illegal and deport them if they supported the union. All union supporters were fired, and spanish speaking workers in the company were promoted. They got to freely walk around and Promote the anti union message, We got death threats. The economy is already going into the toilet. Im sorry But Bush is out there selling lies.
Like this golden gem
We are fighting them there so we dont have to here.
Whats his new message
We are hiring them here so we dont have to hire them there?

This was in his first election platform. And here comes the real flame fest
The agreement was mexico opens up its nationalised oil industry to american investment and management in return for a guest worker program. 9/11 and vincente fox not supporting america like the good lap dog he was supposed to be screwed things up. Now oil is hitting 68 a barrel. Bush is trying to get the oil deal going again

Yup, that's what happens when employers can get away with hiring illegals.

I would still support them for firing the union supporters though...

I used to say the same thing about dry cleaners/cloths laundys, but damn near all of them nowdays hire mexicans cause most Americans won't work for that low of wage.

Quoted: I used to say the same thing about dry cleaners/cloths laundys, but damn near all of them nowdays hire mexicans cause most Americans won't work for that low of wage.

What happened to all the Chinamen?  I thought they were the go-to guys for laundry...

Funny I used to Be a rough carpenter and roofer, But most americans wont work for 10 dollars an hour in a job that could leave you maimed or dead.
Funny Im a machinist with schooling and thousands of dollars of tools, and Im getting offers for less money than I made 5 years ago.
Definition of a job an american wont do
AND YOU KNOW IT
any job that pays less than whats supporting are lifestyle now.
15 dollars an hour comes out to about 10.15 cents after taxes
Employers would rather hire illegals for 10 an hour not pay taxes or other over head. They wont complain about work conditions AND they are good leverage for keeping your legal workers on the ropes
Guest worker program sounds great. Hmmm lets see now only jobs americans dont want
Well If I will only pay 13000 dollars a year for computer programmers no american programmer will want that job. So i will import guest workers from the Philippines to work at that wage. All the other Software companys will do the same to stay competitive. 10 years from now A american programmer gets laid off looks at the peper and suddenly finds. There job is paying a 1/3 of what it paid beofre and there is no benefits. Plus without bilingual skills management positions are out of the question.

Quoted: Funny I used to Be a rough carpenter and roofer, But most americans wont work for 10 dollars an hour in a job that could leave you maimed or dead. Funny Im a machinist with schooling and thousands of dollars of tools, and Im getting offers for less money than I made 5 years ago. Definition of a job an american wont do AND YOU KNOW IT any job that pays less than whats supporting are lifestyle now. 15 dollars an hour comes out to about 10.15 cents after taxes Employers would rather hire illegals for 10 an hour not pay taxes or other over head. They wont complain about work conditions AND they are good leverage for keeping your legal workers on the ropes Guest worker program sounds great. Hmmm lets see now only jobs americans dont want Well If I will only pay 13000 dollars a year for computer programmers no american programmer will want that job. So i will import guest workers from the Philippines to work at that wage. All the other Software companys will do the same to stay competitive. 10 years from now A american programmer gets laid off looks at the peper and suddenly finds. There job is paying a 1/3 of what it paid beofre and there is no benefits. Plus without bilingual skills management positions are out of the question.

All absolutely true, but I hope everyone is ready to live with the consequences if we ever do get around to kicking the illegals out.  I know I am, but there are many who will immediately start bitching about it.  That would be having to PAY more for products and services that currently hire illegal labor.  When the bill for landscaping jumps 50%, and the prices for produce start rising, there will be a lot of bitching.  In a perfect world, the problem would probably solve itself since the illegals would be less of a burden on the tax and medical systems, which should cause those costs to go down, but I don't see it happening since the .gov can always seem to find a way to spend excess cash instead of lowering taxes like they should.  Although I think medical costs will go down since hospitals and insurance companies, unlike government, will lower their prices since their costs will lower...

Quoted: Quoted: I used to say the same thing about dry cleaners/cloths laundys, but damn near all of them nowdays hire mexicans cause most Americans won't work for that low of wage. What happened to all the Chinamen?  I thought they were the go-to guys for laundry...

when I was finishing concrete, laying brick and tile, I was the only one on the crew that wasn't mexican, the forman figured since I got black hair and brown eyes, I looked mexican enough to work with them, his other crew was all white.

Quoted: Quoted: Funny I used to Be a rough carpenter and roofer, But most americans wont work for 10 dollars an hour in a job that could leave you maimed or dead. Funny Im a machinist with schooling and thousands of dollars of tools, and Im getting offers for less money than I made 5 years ago. Definition of a job an american wont do AND YOU KNOW IT any job that pays less than whats supporting are lifestyle now. 15 dollars an hour comes out to about 10.15 cents after taxes Employers would rather hire illegals for 10 an hour not pay taxes or other over head. They wont complain about work conditions AND they are good leverage for keeping your legal workers on the ropes Guest worker program sounds great. Hmmm lets see now only jobs americans dont want Well If I will only pay 13000 dollars a year for computer programmers no american programmer will want that job. So i will import guest workers from the Philippines to work at that wage. All the other Software companys will do the same to stay competitive. 10 years from now A american programmer gets laid off looks at the peper and suddenly finds. There job is paying a 1/3 of what it paid beofre and there is no benefits. Plus without bilingual skills management positions are out of the question. All absolutely true, but I hope everyone is ready to live with the consequences if we ever do get around to kicking the illegals out.  I know I am, but there are many who will immediately start bitching about it.  That would be having to PAY more for products and services that currently hire illegal labor.  When the bill for landscaping jumps 50%, and the prices for produce start rising, there will be a lot of bitching.  In a perfect world, the problem would probably solve itself since the illegals would be less of a burden on the tax and medical systems, which should cause those costs to go down, but I don't see it happening since the .gov can always seem to find a way to spend excess cash instead of lowering taxes like they should.  Although I think medical costs will go down since hospitals and insurance companies, unlike government, will lower their prices since their costs will lower...

not necessarily, what will happen is greater mechanization in food harvesting. remember this arguement was probably used to justify slavery too.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Funny I used to Be a rough carpenter and roofer, But most americans wont work for 10 dollars an hour in a job that could leave you maimed or dead. Funny Im a machinist with schooling and thousands of dollars of tools, and Im getting offers for less money than I made 5 years ago. Definition of a job an american wont do AND YOU KNOW IT any job that pays less than whats supporting are lifestyle now. 15 dollars an hour comes out to about 10.15 cents after taxes Employers would rather hire illegals for 10 an hour not pay taxes or other over head. They wont complain about work conditions AND they are good leverage for keeping your legal workers on the ropes Guest worker program sounds great. Hmmm lets see now only jobs americans dont want Well If I will only pay 13000 dollars a year for computer programmers no american programmer will want that job. So i will import guest workers from the Philippines to work at that wage. All the other Software companys will do the same to stay competitive. 10 years from now A american programmer gets laid off looks at the peper and suddenly finds. There job is paying a 1/3 of what it paid beofre and there is no benefits. Plus without bilingual skills management positions are out of the question. All absolutely true, but I hope everyone is ready to live with the consequences if we ever do get around to kicking the illegals out.  I know I am, but there are many who will immediately start bitching about it.  That would be having to PAY more for products and services that currently hire illegal labor.  When the bill for landscaping jumps 50%, and the prices for produce start rising, there will be a lot of bitching.  In a perfect world, the problem would probably solve itself since the illegals would be less of a burden on the tax and medical systems, which should cause those costs to go down, but I don't see it happening since the .gov can always seem to find a way to spend excess cash instead of lowering taxes like they should.  Although I think medical costs will go down since hospitals and insurance companies, unlike government, will lower their prices since their costs will lower... not necessarily, what will happen is greater mechanization in food harvesting. remember this arguement was probably used to justify slavery too.

If you read my post, I wasn't trying to justify anything, just saying to expect it.  In addition, mechanization is a good thing, but it doesn't help with the problem of employing unskilled people.  Adding machines increases the market for skilled operators and technicians, and decreases the market for unskilled labor.  I really don't have a problem with that either.  IF a person doesn't have any skills, they're SOL and it ain't anyone's fault but their own...

Then you may as well not eat at any restaurant.

Quoted: Then you may as well not eat at any restaurant.

Or buy a lot of food at the grocery store either.



In fact, you'll probably starve to death soon, because of your principle.  

Can I have your guns?  

I keep hearing about food service, and agriculture. Thats great, I acknowledge Cheap farm labor really helps the bottom line and the price we pay. But you can expand that model to manufacturing, construction, Information technology, et al.

I have felt the results of the declining wage, I have lost my job because I cant compete. Its not my skill, or attendance or character. It is my wages. I cannot compete with the illegals. Up until 3 years ago my wages crept up to where I am making 15.35 an hour. These are wages I have earned going to school and learning my trade. Market forces say I am making too much money now, positions in machining are paying 10-12 an hour now. And when I go to interview guess what I see at the prospective job sites? Illegals. In machining in wisconsin.  The legal Hmongs and the Illegal mexicans are taking the jobs. The Hmongs dont like the mexicans. Know why? Because their wages are being depressed too. The Hmongs make about a dollar more than the mexicans.
If I want to get out of machining I can always go fall back on my Rough carpentry skills........Hmmmm wonder who is filling in these positions now