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Posted: 3/30/2006 3:35:30 PM EDT
What's the opinion on home security kits you can install yourself?
Are they worth the money and what do you need to look for in one?
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 3:39:38 PM EDT
all you need is a dog, a .22 and a .38
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 3:45:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:
all you need is a dog, a .22 and a .38



Yeah, thanks.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 3:47:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:
all you need is a dog, a .22 and a .38



And your real user name is ?
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 4:00:48 PM EDT
You can get pretty good monitored sets installed by companies, we've had Brinks for over 10 years. I like monitored because they will call if I'm away, fire or cops, and I don;t think you can get that from a non monitored kit.

They realize the real money is in the monthly monitoring, they always run install specials. I paid a ton for mine, but I insist on every door and window, even upstairs.

The self installs are getting better and better, I saw a hometime or similar home inprovement show where they put a pretty sophisticated onein a couple years ago.

Good luck.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 4:02:05 PM EDT
Hire a pro to do it.. You will be happy you did...

<its what I do for a living BTW>
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 4:11:27 PM EDT
This is what I have, it works great
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 4:16:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By buckmaw:
Hire a pro to do it.. You will be happy you did...

<its what I do for a living BTW>



+1 Good advice! Of course I did my own since I was a professional alarm tech years ago, which is why I agree that it's best that way. When you buy an alarm system you aren't buying some hadrware that anyone can install, you are buying Peace of Mind, the knowledge that you are secure and will know if someone is breaking in...
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 4:27:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 4:29:18 PM EDT by Wash-Ar15]
it not as hard as you think. as long as you know how a house is constucted and can fish wire then its not too hard.programming was the hardest part imho

here is my in stall. no one is getting around my stuff

did it for about 400 dollars






Link Posted: 3/30/2006 4:35:23 PM EDT


Aren't most of these "home security systems" based on the use of a telephone line for communication with home owners and police?

It seems cutting the phone line before attempting any break-in. Would give the thief more than enough time to do what he needs to do. Before anybody realizes there is a problem.

IMHO

Link Posted: 3/30/2006 4:35:43 PM EDT
and if you dont want to pay the monitor fee
get one of these united security products inc avd-45b voice dialer
It will call 4 numbers when the alarm goes off /and it calls all four over and over and over, i think its like 10 times.
Its not a tape dialer.
I found it on the net and i had to ask 3 or 4 companys to install it for me and none of them have ever heard of it, It works great so far, I have it installed at the shop where i work and it has called all 4 numbers every time the alarm has sounded

JUST WANTED TO CHIME IN BECAUSE I HATE ANOTHER MONTHLY BILL
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 4:41:05 PM EDT
Cell backup and most phone lines are monitored.If ya cut it the alarm goes instant!!!!
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 4:49:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 4:52:53 PM EDT by AcidGambit]
Hire a pro, get a good quality system... Make sure it will notify the centeral station if the lines are cut... I don't like motion detector, but you should get and I love glass break sensors ! Punch out a window and they will go off.

$20 a month is cheap isurance IMHO and I got a 25% discount on my homeowners insurance.

ETA: You have your phone box and lines moved inside, also have the ouside lines inside a lead pipe. You can still cut them, but it will deter them, which is what you want to do.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 4:52:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wash-Ar15:
Cell backup and most phone lines are monitored.If ya cut it the alarm goes instant!!!!



What if the phone line goes down for no reason? Say the phone company is working on the other street and disconnects service for a few minutes. Does the system then give a false alarm?



Link Posted: 3/30/2006 4:53:07 PM EDT
A monitored system is a good, the celluar backup is better.

Shit happens. Response time may go to shit because of something else happening in the city. Add some cameras.

I have a few cameras, at strategic spots. You can't even fuck with my mailbox without me getting your mug. Inside the home too. All of it feeds to a server that is well protected. Even if you kill the camera, I get video...

Shitbirds will get in, no matter what you do. The alarm may catch them, but it is nice to have video just in case. After seeing too much crappy video on TV from robberies, I made sure I will be able to find anyone the alarm does not get.


Lem
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:01:28 PM EDT
Some questions, as I will be on the market for one of these soon.

1) Concerning motion detectors; what, if any, allowance to the sensors have to account for pets moving through the house?

2) Should one bother wiring the second floor windows?

3) Once an alarm is installed, how difficult is it to add another sensor or two YOURSELF?

Thanks.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:03:05 PM EDT
Not sure if the alarm will go off if they diconnect. Not happened yet. Most alarms check for dial tone on a regular basis.

My experience is that most police don't respond fast enough to catch the bad guys anyways. alarm call are not the first priority.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:04:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 5:07:17 PM EDT by quijanos]
This is a little off base but I'd advise you to go with a major Security System Carrier.

Get the phone book and get a pro (Brinks, etc. ) ......as already posted.
If you are anything like us; we only care that the system alerts us to any intrusion.
The fact that it alerts a central location and ultimately the police is just a bonus. Moreover, it (the alarm system) takes over the phone lines so that no calls are going out. I rely on my cell service; which is what I keep at the bedside at night. I'm not relying on the LEO's to be able to do anything about it (anyway) and will handle up until that time comes. Most major companies even offer entry level systems for free. We basically took our service from our old house and upgraded it when we moved. Bigger house, bigger system. Motion on the first floor where any ground level entry can be had. More motion at the stairs. Contacts on doors/windows. Glass break in specific locations as required. The higher end keypad is almost a no brainer. You can basically program it yourself. We were also able to obtain wireless remotes similar your car alarm remote (in size/shape) that arm the house (in a variety of ways) from within 100 feet and our overhead door opener is programed to it as well. Fits on a keychain. Its rather affordable and you really don't need to chinch.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:06:13 PM EDT
Hire buckmaw to do it.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:07:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wash-Ar15:
Not sure if the alarm will go off if they diconnect. Not happened yet. Most alarms check for dial tone on a regular basis.

My experience is that most police don't respond fast enough to catch the bad guys anyways. alarm call are not the first priority.



Wire the system to claymores, not some noise horn.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:13:17 PM EDT
There are quite a few pet sensitive motion detectors. the best time to do the second floor is when buiding the house. Second floor could use wireless. Many alarms can use a combo of both. All my entries are contacts and the the motions are insurance if you break a window to get in.

if you have the instruction to your alarm then adding a sensor should not be too hard. but the alarm companies are not goingto leave them iwth you. Not even the install code. Yuo want to get something done you have to call them and they will charge you accordingly.

Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:15:12 PM EDT
Every time I've had an alarm installed, I've asked for ALL the manuals and codes, and gotten them.

Tell me, is there any chance of some geek with a wireless set cracking the code to the wireless portion(s) of the system to deactivate them?
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:19:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 5:21:00 PM EDT by Wash-Ar15]
did you pay the full price of the alarm install. i guess they may leave the manual but the install code I don't know. Thats how they make their bread and butter.

all my stuff was bought here

homesecuritystore.com/
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:31:14 PM EDT
The idea that "profesionally-installed" systems are better is a myth. Just about any security hardware you can get with an installed system is also available for self-install.


Originally Posted By CITADELGRAD87:
I like monitored because they will call if I'm away, fire or cops, and I don;t think you can get that from a non monitored kit.



Install an autodialer instead, and program it to call your work number, your cell number, the numbers of a couple relatives and a few trusted neighbors. I GUARANTEE that one of you will show up a lot quicker than the police would if it had to go through a third-party monitor!

Also, consider that over a few year's time, the $20+ per month you'll save by not paying for a monitoring service is enough to buy other security measures: burglar bars on the doors and windows, outdoor lights, upgraded locks, a gun safe, etc.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:33:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wash-Ar15:
did you pay the full price of the alarm install.



Yes, and I can't help but wonder if I got taken for it, honestly. Damned expensive.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:41:53 PM EDT
i'm cofident the alarm I installes if done by a pro would be 2k. the 199 installs are not free. Just like a cell phone they got a string attached called a contract.

Yuo paid full price,that why ya got the manuals

If you are good at runiing wire and stuff then I would not shy away from doing it yourself. Its really basic wiring.even at the control box. programming took the longest and a few calls to the tech assist. Which I must say was great. got a real amaerican
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:52:59 PM EDT
Well, running wires wouldn't be a problem if I only had one floor. I have 2, and I'm by myself, so I either have the pros do it (and pay through the nose) or I go wireless.

That's a really interesting website, BTW. I didn't know there were so many wireless options.

Right now, if I went full-tilt boogie, I'd need to cover 4 Entry Doors, 2 Garage Doors, and 23 Windows. I'd want at least three motion detectors, one flame detector (kitchen), 4 smoke detectors, 2 CO detectors, and 5 broken-glass detectors.

That's a LOT of money, no matter how you slice it, so you can understand why I'd be leaning toward motion detectors in lieu of window contacts, and not bothering with the second floor at all.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:56:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:
all you need is a dog, a .22 and a .38

'

lemme guess.. the 38 is for you when you are home.. the 22 is for the dog when you are not home (dog is small and cant handle a larger caliber pistol)..

you forgot the cell phone for the dog (if you can teach the critter to dial). you'll want the beast to call the police and then you after he has dispatched the intruders.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 6:02:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zaphod:
Well, running wires wouldn't be a problem if I only had one floor. I have 2, and I'm by myself, so I either have the pros do it (and pay through the nose) or I go wireless.

That's a really interesting website, BTW. I didn't know there were so many wireless options.

Right now, if I went full-tilt boogie, I'd need to cover 4 Entry Doors, 2 Garage Doors, and 23 Windows. I'd want at least three motion detectors, one flame detector (kitchen), 4 smoke detectors, 2 CO detectors, and 5 broken-glass detectors.

That's a LOT of money, no matter how you slice it, so you can understand why I'd be leaning toward motion detectors in lieu of window contacts, and not bothering with the second floor at all.



if you can control your zones, (keep people out of them at certain times) motion detectors rule. because you can zone an area with a few, dont have to run wires to all the doors and windows, you dont have break glass detectors and they detect the rare occurence of the really oddball guy who gets into your house, hides in a closet until you go to bed then starts up the stairs (this happens and makes a motion detector zoning downstairs and hallways worth their weight in gold). i have a freind who intalls systems and this is what he advised me to do.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 6:06:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wash-Ar15:
did you pay the full price of the alarm install. i guess they may leave the manual but the install code I don't know. Thats how they make their bread and butter.

all my stuff was bought here

homesecuritystore.com/



+1
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 6:09:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By st0newall:
if you can control your zones, (keep people out of them at certain times) motion detectors rule. because you can zone an area with a few, dont have to run wires to all the doors and windows, you dont have break glass detectors and they detect the rare occurence of the really oddball guy who gets into your house, hides in a closet until you go to bed then starts up the stairs (this happens and makes a motion detector zoning downstairs and hallways worth their weight in gold). i have a freind who intalls systems and this is what he advised me to do.



Well, it's just me, so if anything is moving around and it's NOT me, then it's the enemy...
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 6:17:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 6:19:30 PM EDT by ScaryGuy]
I have a monitored system, both wired and wireless on every door and window, with motion detectors in each room and glass breaks in all strategic areas. I have cellular backup really for fire only.

The burglary protection is there only to let me know where to aim in the event of a home invasion.

The good shit is all locked in the gun safe.

Residential burglaries are time-limited crimes. With a wailing alarm, and a damn heavy, bolted to the foundation Cannon safe, I'm as protected as I'm going to be when not home. All you buy with alarms and safes is just that: Time.

Can a pro get in my safe? Sure. Can a Beanfarter with a screwdriver and a powerdrill? Not on your fucking life.

My security system was really an investment as a tool to help in the event I AM home.

SG
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 6:31:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 6:47:15 PM EDT by P08]
Some tips for you guys looking for an alarm system.
1. Male sure the company you go with is reputable and is UL approved. UL central stations are better because they have redundant systems and are regulated by UL.

2.Hardwired systems are the best PERIOD. Wireless technology changes every 5-10 years. When it does old equipment does not work with new (usually) You can add a brand new device to a system that was hardwired 30 years ago and it will work.

3. Unless you have to window switches are a waste of time and money! If you really want to cover your windows get your screens laced with wire (expensive).

4. Glass break sensors only work with tempered glass that shatters at the correct frequency. If you have drapes blocking the window from the device there is a 50/50 chance that it will not work.

5. Pet friendly motions are great, but if you cat gets too close to it the device WILL pick it up.

6. Outdoor sirens are a waste of time especially in the open country. If you have false alarms they will piss off your neighbors!

7. Motion sensors are the best bang for the buck. One $70 (installed) motion can cover a whole room!
8. Do not forget smoke and heat detectors. Your guns and stuff are no good if you die from a fire!

9. Some type of wireless back up like cell or radio is good piece of mind. Even if your D mark (phone line) is inside nothing prevents the crook from driving over the green box on the block and taking out the whole neighborhood!

As for my background I have worked in the Burglar and Fire alarm business my whole life!
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 7:14:09 PM EDT
Have to disagree with this one:


Originally Posted By P08:
6. Outdoor sirens are a waste of time especially in the open country. If you have false alarms they will piss off your neighbors!



In my neighborhood, when an outdoor siren goes off, someone usually steps outside to see where it is coming from. Since we all have security systems, we all know that false alarms happen, and nobody gets upset about it.

Compare this with when an indoor siren goes off, in which case nobody but the thief hears it.

IMO, the best siren is mounted outdoors, sounds like nobody else's in your neighborhood, and is accompanied by a strobe light that rules out any confusion about which house the racket is coming from.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 7:19:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Skibane:
Have to disagree with this one:


Originally Posted By P08:
6. Outdoor sirens are a waste of time especially in the open country. If you have false alarms they will piss off your neighbors!



In my neighborhood, when an outdoor siren goes off, someone usually steps outside to see where it is coming from. Since we all have security systems, we all know that false alarms happen, and nobody gets upset about it.

Compare this with when an indoor siren goes off, in which case nobody but the thief hears it.

IMO, the best siren is mounted outdoors, sounds like nobody else's in your neighborhood, and is accompanied by a strobe light that rules out any confusion about which house the racket is coming from.



You obviously never had your neighbors alarm go off while they were on vacation! Siren would go for 15 minutes then reset. The same thing that made it false the first time would trigger it again shortly thereafter. This went on for hours, until I removed the siren!
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 7:35:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 7:37:18 PM EDT by AcidGambit]
The whole point of them is to keep the bad guy from wanting to mess with your house, you want them to go to someone elses house. The alarm co sign will keep a majority of the fuck wads away, well lit ouside, nothing to hide behind, beware of dog signs, etc.

You don't even want them to look twice at your house, you want them to bother with other places.

FWIW: I have sirens inside and they are fucking painful. I have one outside too and two strobes. Make friends with your neighbors and don't set your alarm off by accident.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:05:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By P08:

Originally Posted By Skibane:
Have to disagree with this one:


Originally Posted By P08:
6. Outdoor sirens are a waste of time especially in the open country. If you have false alarms they will piss off your neighbors!



In my neighborhood, when an outdoor siren goes off, someone usually steps outside to see where it is coming from. Since we all have security systems, we all know that false alarms happen, and nobody gets upset about it.

Compare this with when an indoor siren goes off, in which case nobody but the thief hears it.

IMO, the best siren is mounted outdoors, sounds like nobody else's in your neighborhood, and is accompanied by a strobe light that rules out any confusion about which house the racket is coming from.



You obviously never had your neighbors alarm go off while they were on vacation! Siren would go for 15 minutes then reset. The same thing that made it false the first time would trigger it again shortly thereafter. This went on for hours, until I removed the siren!



Nope, never have...And I doubt that 99.9 percent of the rest of the general public ever has either. It's a small risk that is more than justified by the benefits.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:01:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By blackeye:

Originally Posted By Wash-Ar15:
Cell backup and most phone lines are monitored.If ya cut it the alarm goes instant!!!!



What if the phone line goes down for no reason? Say the phone company is working on the other street and disconnects service for a few minutes. Does the system then give a false alarm?






no, you get a "telco failure" message.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:04:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zaphod:
Some questions, as I will be on the market for one of these soon.

1) Concerning motion detectors; what, if any, allowance to the sensors have to account for pets moving through the house?

2) Should one bother wiring the second floor windows?

3) Once an alarm is installed, how difficult is it to add another sensor or two YOURSELF?

Thanks.



1) You can get "pet-immune" sensors. How big is the pet?

2) It's up to you. Someone determined might climb up there.

3) It depends on how much you know about alarms. You could easily splice it onto an existing zone without changing any programming.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:08:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wash-Ar15:
did you pay the full price of the alarm install. i guess they may leave the manual but the install code I don't know. Thats how they make their bread and butter.

all my stuff was bought here

homesecuritystore.com/



There's another reason you don't get the lockout (installer) code - liability. It stays locked unless you want to cancel service - there's no way I would put myself in the position of having the system not work because someone tampered with it and screwed up the programming.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:13:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wash-Ar15:
i'm cofident the alarm I installes if done by a pro would be 2k. the 199 installs are not free. Just like a cell phone they got a string attached called a contract.

Yuo paid full price,that why ya got the manuals

If you are good at runiing wire and stuff then I would not shy away from doing it yourself. Its really basic wiring.even at the control box. programming took the longest and a few calls to the tech assist. Which I must say was great. got a real amaerican



You get what you pay for - the free systems are the cheapest stuff the installer can get his hands on and provide little protection. Once you start asking for extras, you get tagged for it anyway.

As for installing the system yourself, I'd be happy to hook someone up to central station that did all the work for me, for free. However, if I have to sit there for hours figuring out what everything is and fixing everything that doesn't work - there will be a charge.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:16:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zaphod:
Well, running wires wouldn't be a problem if I only had one floor. I have 2, and I'm by myself, so I either have the pros do it (and pay through the nose) or I go wireless.

That's a really interesting website, BTW. I didn't know there were so many wireless options.

Right now, if I went full-tilt boogie, I'd need to cover 4 Entry Doors, 2 Garage Doors, and 23 Windows. I'd want at least three motion detectors, one flame detector (kitchen), 4 smoke detectors, 2 CO detectors, and 5 broken-glass detectors.

That's a LOT of money, no matter how you slice it, so you can understand why I'd be leaning toward motion detectors in lieu of window contacts, and not bothering with the second floor at all.



That is relatively expensive. However, you should dump the CO detectors and get the $15.00 ones from Home Depot. You only need them to wake you up to get you out of the house - if they are tied to the system and go off when you're not home the FD is going to break in your door looking for victims.
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