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Posted: 3/30/2006 7:23:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 7:26:27 AM EDT by Tactical_Jew]
www.belleville.com/mld/belleville/news/nation/14221951.htm
Gun shows caught in heated crossfire
BY JUDY L. THOMAS
Knight Ridder Newspapers
KANSAS CITY, Mo. - AK-47s. SKS sniper rifles. Armor-piercing bullets. Machine gun displays.

It's just another weekend at a Kansas City gun show, where there is so much firepower at your fingertips that even some gun enthusiasts shake their heads in wonder.

But the shows - which gained popularity in the 1990s and now number in the thousands nationwide - are coming under increasing fire as critics claim they are contributing to the incidence of violent crime.

"Gun shows are one of our main problems," said Kansas City Mayor Pro Tem Alvin Brooks. "These are the guns that end up on the streets of America."

Brooks recalled several teens who were shot last year in retaliation for robbing a drug dealer at gunpoint.

"One got killed, one lost a leg, and one was paralyzed," Brooks said. "This one fellow who I talked to (at the hospital) said they had bought those guns at gun shows. He said all you have to do is be 18 years old, and sometimes they don't ask you anything if you've got cash."

Critics contend that the biggest problem is a legal loophole that allows criminals and others who are prohibited from buying a firearm to obtain guns from unlicensed sellers at guns shows. In most states, including Missouri and Kansas, no background checks are required to buy long guns - including assault rifles - from sellers who do not have a federal firearms license.

Gun-rights advocates maintain, however, that there is no "gun show loophole."

"If anyone is involved in the trade of selling and buying firearms, they have to obtain a federal firearms license," said Andrew Arulanandam, director of public affairs for the National Rifle Association. "That is the law of the land today, so to say that there's a loophole is disingenuous."

While Arulanandam acknowledged that unlicensed sellers do not have to conduct background checks, he said they were in the "distinct minority."

Local law enforcement authorities insist gun shows remain a major concern.

"I think the average person would be in awe at what's all legal now," said Maj. Anthony Ell, commander of the Kansas City Police Department's violent crimes division. "Individuals who may not be able to get them legally through proper licensed dealers, that gun show loophole allows them to bypass all of that and get guns."

But Paul Marquardt, a spokesman for the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in Kansas City, said the agency is more concerned about "the people who illegally sell firearms to criminals" such as felons, illegal aliens or drug traffickers.

"The ATF does not target gun shows, we target criminals who are trying to acquire firearms from any source whether it's in a back alley or anywhere else," Marquardt said.

Gun sellers interviewed by The Kansas City Star said that despite the presence of law enforcement authorities, illegal sales and gun thefts occur at area shows. A reporter observed one questionable firearm transaction at a recent show. And a vendor said someone had stolen handguns from him and another vendor.

What's more, the leader of a white supremacist gang of bank robbers told The Star that he and his partners found that gun shows in Missouri and Kansas were a quick way to buy and dump weapons used in their crimes.

"It was incredibly easy," said Peter Langan, who in the 1990s was the head of the Aryan Republican Army, a group that prosecutors say was responsible for 22 bank robberies in the Midwest. "Gun shows, just for the sheer volume and selection, you just couldn't beat 'em," Langan said in a telephone interview from prison, where he is serving a life sentence.

One of Langan's convicted associates, Kevin McCarthy, told the FBI after he was arrested that he had used one of those guns in a 1994 bank heist in Missouri. "McCarthy utilized a 9mm Ruger Pistol, Model PT-89," an FBI special agent wrote in an investigative summary obtained by The Star. "McCarthy had previously purchased this pistol at a gun show in Kansas City, Mo."

Brooks said the teen wounded in last year's shootout told him that his friends often would go to shows to buy and resell guns. They preferred lethal-looking weapons similar to the TEC-DC9 with a 30-round clip that police took off a young man at the St. Patrick's Day parade.

"The AR-15, the TEC-9 and the AK-47 are what they're getting," Brooks said.

When Congress passed the Brady Bill in 1993, it put in place what some consider a double standard for the purchase of guns. Licensed dealers have to conduct background checks on buyers while unlicensed sellers - private individuals and collectors - do not.

Critics say that means criminals and others who are prohibited from buying a firearm can skirt the law and get guns from unlicensed sellers at gun shows.

For years, gun-safety advocates have called for federal legislation to close what they contend is a gun show loophole. But the gun lobby has argued that would shut down gun shows, and the legislation has stalled.

Eighteen states, however, have passed laws that either require background checks before the purchase of any firearms at gun shows or require buyers to first obtain a permit. Missouri, for example, requires a permit for all handgun purchases, although long guns and assault rifles do not require one.

But the remaining states - including Kansas - still allow buyers to purchase firearms from unlicensed sellers at gun shows without obtaining a permit or undergoing a criminal background check.

Gun-rights advocates contend that most people who sell guns at gun shows are licensed dealers, not private sellers, so it is not that big a problem.

"There are only a few people who buy tables to dispose of private collections," said Kevin Jamison, a Gladstone lawyer and member of the Western Missouri Shooters Alliance. "That's been rare, and it's getting more and more unusual."

But the ATF estimates that up to one-fourth of the gun sellers at shows are unlicensed. And authorities argue that criminals and illegal gun traffickers are wise to that, although they're also getting firearms from licensed dealers.

Last month, an ATF official testified before a congressional subcommittee that more than 400 firearms purchased at gun shows in the Richmond, Va., area between 2002 and 2005 were later used in crimes. Checks of 302 people who had purchased guns from licensed dealers at those shows in a 15-month period revealed that 47 had provided false addresses.

An earlier report on illegal weapons by the ATF found that gun shows were the second-leading source of illegal firearms recovered in gun-trafficking investigations. In some cases, known or suspected terrorists bought guns at shows.

A known member of Hezbollah, for example, was convicted in 2001 in a federal court in Michigan for trying to smuggle guns into Lebanon. An undercover agent saw the man buy a weapon at a gun show without a background check.

Gun-rights advocates insist the shows are not a major source of weapons used in crimes. The NRA cites a 2001 Bureau of Justice Statistics report that said fewer than 1 percent of guns used in crimes came from gun shows.

"The biggest source of crime firearms is the black market," Arulanandam said. "Law enforcement always refers to criminals looking for a clean gun. What they're referring to is they want to find a firearm that's not traceable. And every time you go through a retail outlet or any FFL (federal firearms licensed dealer), you have a long paper trail."

Each year, more than 5,000 gun shows are held nationwide, according to the ATF. The National Association of Arms Shows says that an average of 2,500 to 3,000 people attend a typical show, purchasing between 100,000 and 300,000 guns annually.

"On any given weekend, there's a gun show going on someplace," Jamison said. "In the greater Kansas City area, there's probably one to two gun shows in any given month."

At a March 12 gun show at the 3 Trails Expo Center next to Bannister Mall, tables were teeming with handguns, assault rifles, knives and war memorabilia.

Several vendors were selling books and pamphlets such as "How to Make Disposable Silencers" and "Homemade Grenade Launchers." A few publications described how to convert semiautomatic weapons into machine guns - which is illegal under federal law.

But overall, the show appeared to be taking steps to assure the safe handling of weapons, and there was visible security.

Signs at the entrance warned, "No Loaded Guns Inside." Two off-duty Jackson County sheriff's deputies checked guns brought into the building. Other deputies strolled the aisles of the show, which organizer Waylon Pearson of R.K. Shows in Manchester, Iowa, said drew 4,000 people.

Lee Morlang's table included a Rock River AR-15 assault rifle for $850. Morlang said he was selling his private collection and therefore did not need a license. He estimated that 10 to 12 other vendors were unlicensed sellers who were not required to conduct background checks.

Morlang said he did not need any background check to tell him who should and should not be buying a gun. "I can read people like a book," he said. "If we get a bad person in here, we get rid of 'em."

Others at the show keep an eye out as well, he said. "There was a guard here yesterday, he saw two guys here that had been in prison. The minute they saw him, they hit the door."

But apparently that does not prevent all crime at the shows. Morlang said someone recently stole a .44-caliber handgun from him as he was loading weapons after a show. The same thing happened to another vendor, he said.

As he spoke, Morlang watched two men near his booth. One handed the other a wad of cash, who then gave the man a handgun - a possible violation of the law which requires handgun purchasers to first obtain a permit.

"See right there?" Morlang asked. "There's a transaction going on right in front of us of an unregistered gun." He shook his head, adding, "it's that kind of stuff that gives these shows a bad name."

Dean Parr, owner of Dean's Gun Shop in St. Joseph, Mo., said he and other licensed dealers have to abide by the same laws at gun shows as they do at their stores.

"If they buy a gun off an individual at a gun show, they don't have to do the paperwork," Parr conceded. "But they could do the same thing at a truck stop or somewhere else, too."

Parr, however, doubted that many criminals were getting guns at the shows.

"If they are, it's a very small percentage," he said. "But if there was anything they could do to monitor these shows better, it would be to have someone out in the parking lot to keep people from buying and selling guns out there."

The Jan. 15 gun show at the KCI Expo Center, sponsored by the Missouri Valley Arms Collectors Association, also enjoyed a huge turnout and appeared to be well run. Although that show offered fewer handguns than the March show, there were plenty of assault weapons.

The ATF had two representatives available to answer questions and several off-duty Kansas City police officers walked the aisles. Nearby, one vendor was selling what was purported to be armor-piercing ammunition, also known as "cop killer" bullets.

Even some gun show attendees seemed surprised at the array of weaponry.

"I don't see how that can be legal," one man remarked to a friend as he pointed toward a Bushmaster assault rifle - the kind of weapon used in the 2002 sniper spree that left 10 people dead in Washington, D.C., Maryland and Virginia.

Under current law, it is legal.

Eighteen months ago, Congress did not reauthorize the part of the Brady Law that banned the manufacture and sale of 19 kinds of military-style assault weapons. Now that the weapons are back on the market, authorities say they are trying to get tougher on weapons violations.

In fact, the U.S. attorney's office in Kansas City is among the top in the nation for the number of federal gun law prosecutions.

But gun-safety advocates point out those prosecutions, which they applaud, are mostly for felons possessing firearms or committing a felony with one - not for violators who buy and sell firearms illegally.

In 2003, only 532 of the more than 126,000 people nationwide who lied on a background check were prosecuted, according to a study by the Americans for Gun Safety Foundation. And just 234 cases were filed for possessing or selling stolen firearms, even though 40,000 stolen guns were recovered and returned to their owners.

Still, some gun-rights advocates complain that federal law enforcement agencies are too aggressive. Last month, they convinced a congressional subcommittee to hold hearings on the way the ATF investigated gun shows in Richmond, Va.

Gun show organizers charged that the ATF and local law enforcement scared off potential customers and racially profiled buyers. A top ATF official acknowledged that agents made some mistakes but denied any profiling and defended their tactics.

The ATF's Michael Bouchard told lawmakers that the agency polices only about 100 of the 5,000 gun shows annually. He said the agency focused on the Richmond-area shows after discovering that hundreds of firearms purchased at the shows in a three-year period were used in crimes.

During the investigation, Bouchard said agents witnessed a "straw purchase" - where a buyer allowed to own a gun turns around and sells it to someone who is not - that led them to a street gang whose leader was involved in a murder committed with an AK-47.

Authorities said that weapon also was acquired through a straw purchase at another gun show.

---

BACKGROUND CHECKS

Most background checks, which are required on all purchases from licensed dealers, are completed within two hours, and buyers are allowed to take their gun as soon as the check is over.

How they work:

If the background check does not go through by the time the gun show closes, the buyer is supposed to go to the dealer's place of business to follow up. Authorities say that does not always happen. At that point, gun transfers sometimes go on under the table, authorities say, but if an officer doesn't witness it, it is almost impossible to prove.

If the background check is not completed within the mandatory three days, the dealer can go ahead with the sale. If the background check eventually shows that the buyer is not allowed to have a gun, it is up to the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to try to get the gun back.

---

GUN SHOW FACTS AND FIGURES

Gun shows each year in the United States: More than 5,000.

Guns purchased each year at shows: 100,000 to 300,000.

Unlicensed gun sellers at shows: Up to one-fourth, according to Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives estimates.

Gun shows are the second-leading source of illegal firearms recovered in gun-trafficking investigations, according to the ATF.

States requiring background checks on the purchase of firearms at gun shows: 18. Missouri requires a permit for handgun purchases. Kansas doesn't require a permit.

What's the so-called "gun show loophole"? Licensed dealers must do background checks before selling guns. But unlicensed sellers don't. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives says up to one-fourth of gun show sellers are unlicensed and that gun shows are the second-leading source of illegal firearms recovered in gun-trafficking investigations.

_Sources: Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and the National Association of Arms Shows
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 7:25:11 AM EDT
ugh... it never fucking stops does it.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 7:30:53 AM EDT
That Al Brooks is a real racist piece of shit. I has to sit through a racial sensitivity class with him while in the Academy in the 90's.

If you are a white cop, you are a racist.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 7:31:19 AM EDT
Always focus on the tools, not the causes.

Idiots.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 7:36:36 AM EDT
This persistence is how the anti-gunners got the '94 AWB and the Brady law in place. It took the anti-gunner over 10 years to get these laws in to place. The gunners seem to fall asleep after each battle.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 7:38:26 AM EDT

SOMEONE FIND THIS WOMANS EMAIL ADDRESS
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 7:41:05 AM EDT


I love my SKS, but SKS and sniper don't belong in the same sentence.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 7:42:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dolanp:


I love my SKS, but SKS and sniper don't belong in the same sentence.


+1. Mine shoots Minute of Pieplate at 200 yards.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 7:43:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Illinigunner21:
ugh... it never fucking stops does it.





Ya' got that right.

vmax84
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 7:56:36 AM EDT
WOW!

You can buy guns at gunshows?!?!

Man, I've been paying the $8.00 cover charge just for the Jerky, KettleKorn and beanie babies.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:04:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sub-MOA:
WOW!

You can buy guns at gunshows?!?!

Man, I've been paying the $8.00 cover charge just for the Jerky, KettleKorn and beanie babies.



Don't forget the cheap costume jewelry!
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:06:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 9:24:33 AM EDT by PAEBR332]

Originally Posted By Sub-MOA:
WOW!

You can buy guns at gunshows?!?!

Man, I've been paying the $8.00 cover charge just for the Jerky, KettleKorn and beanie babies.



I go to partake of the wisdom of the many SEALs and Delta operators and Force Recon guys who attend. It is also where I get all my information about current gun laws.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:08:07 AM EDT
So...no NICS at Kansas gunshows? Sweet!

Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:08:07 AM EDT
Letters to the editor: letters@bnd.com
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:14:39 AM EDT
If those fuckers didn't rob the drug dealers they would not have gotten shot. That is pretty simple. Don't do robberies and everything will be fine. I hate drug dealers, but I think I hate people who rob drug dealers just as much. I wonder what they were stealing from the drug dealers????
Could it have been drugs?
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:18:36 AM EDT
didnt we read this thread last year, and the year before and the ye..........
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:19:37 AM EDT
::YAWN::

This endless trite never stops. I usually read the entire post, but this time I couldn't stomach getting through the first 4 paragraphs. If I had .02 cents for every person trying to deceive naive impressionable people that know nothing about firearms or firearms laws, I would probably be able to own an island somewhere out in the carribbean.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:23:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew:
www.belleville.com/mld/belleville/news/nation/14221951.htm
Gun shows caught in heated crossfire
BY JUDY L. THOMAS
Knight Ridder Newspapers
KANSAS CITY, Mo. - AK-47s. SKS sniper rifles. Armor-piercing bullets. Machine gun displays.

It's just another weekend at a Kansas City gun show, where there is so much firepower at your fingertips that even some gun enthusiasts shake their heads in wonder.

But the shows - which gained popularity in the 1990s and now number in the thousands nationwide - are coming under increasing fire as critics claim they are contributing to the incidence of violent crime.

"Gun shows are one of our main problems," said Kansas City Mayor Pro Tem Alvin Brooks. "These are the guns that end up on the streets of America."

Brooks recalled several teens who were shot last year in retaliation for robbing a drug dealer at gunpoint.

"One got killed, one lost a leg, and one was paralyzed," Brooks said. "This one fellow who I talked to (at the hospital) said they had bought those guns at gun shows. He said all you have to do is be 18 years old, and sometimes they don't ask you anything if you've got cash."

Critics contend that the biggest problem is a legal loophole that allows criminals and others who are prohibited from buying a firearm to obtain guns from unlicensed sellers at guns shows. In most states, including Missouri and Kansas, no background checks are required to buy long guns - including assault rifles - from sellers who do not have a federal firearms license.

Gun-rights advocates maintain, however, that there is no "gun show loophole."

"If anyone is involved in the trade of selling and buying firearms, they have to obtain a federal firearms license," said Andrew Arulanandam, director of public affairs for the National Rifle Association. "That is the law of the land today, so to say that there's a loophole is disingenuous."

While Arulanandam acknowledged that unlicensed sellers do not have to conduct background checks, he said they were in the "distinct minority."

Local law enforcement authorities insist gun shows remain a major concern.

"I think the average person would be in awe at what's all legal now," said Maj. Anthony Ell, commander of the Kansas City Police Department's violent crimes division. "Individuals who may not be able to get them legally through proper licensed dealers, that gun show loophole allows them to bypass all of that and get guns."

But Paul Marquardt, a spokesman for the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in Kansas City, said the agency is more concerned about "the people who illegally sell firearms to criminals" such as felons, illegal aliens or drug traffickers.

"The ATF does not target gun shows, we target criminals who are trying to acquire firearms from any source whether it's in a back alley or anywhere else," Marquardt said.

Gun sellers interviewed by The Kansas City Star said that despite the presence of law enforcement authorities, illegal sales and gun thefts occur at area shows. A reporter observed one questionable firearm transaction at a recent show. And a vendor said someone had stolen handguns from him and another vendor.

What's more, the leader of a white supremacist gang of bank robbers told The Star that he and his partners found that gun shows in Missouri and Kansas were a quick way to buy and dump weapons used in their crimes.

"It was incredibly easy," said Peter Langan, who in the 1990s was the head of the Aryan Republican Army, a group that prosecutors say was responsible for 22 bank robberies in the Midwest. "Gun shows, just for the sheer volume and selection, you just couldn't beat 'em," Langan said in a telephone interview from prison, where he is serving a life sentence.

One of Langan's convicted associates, Kevin McCarthy, told the FBI after he was arrested that he had used one of those guns in a 1994 bank heist in Missouri. "McCarthy utilized a 9mm Ruger Pistol, Model PT-89," an FBI special agent wrote in an investigative summary obtained by The Star. "McCarthy had previously purchased this pistol at a gun show in Kansas City, Mo."

Brooks said the teen wounded in last year's shootout told him that his friends often would go to shows to buy and resell guns. They preferred lethal-looking weapons similar to the TEC-DC9 with a 30-round clip that police took off a young man at the St. Patrick's Day parade.

"The AR-15, the TEC-9 and the AK-47 are what they're getting," Brooks said.

When Congress passed the Brady Bill in 1993, it put in place what some consider a double standard for the purchase of guns. Licensed dealers have to conduct background checks on buyers while unlicensed sellers - private individuals and collectors - do not.

Critics say that means criminals and others who are prohibited from buying a firearm can skirt the law and get guns from unlicensed sellers at gun shows.
For years, gun-safety advocates have called for federal legislation to close what they contend is a gun show loophole. But the gun lobby has argued that would shut down gun shows, and the legislation has stalled.

Eighteen states, however, have passed laws that either require background checks before the purchase of any firearms at gun shows or require buyers to first obtain a permit. Missouri, for example, requires a permit for all handgun purchases, although long guns and assault rifles do not require one.

But the remaining states - including Kansas - still allow buyers to purchase firearms from unlicensed sellers at gun shows without obtaining a permit or undergoing a criminal background check.

Gun-rights advocates contend that most people who sell guns at gun shows are licensed dealers, not private sellers, so it is not that big a problem.

"There are only a few people who buy tables to dispose of private collections," said Kevin Jamison, a Gladstone lawyer and member of the Western Missouri Shooters Alliance. "That's been rare, and it's getting more and more unusual."

But the ATF estimates that up to one-fourth of the gun sellers at shows are unlicensed. And authorities argue that criminals and illegal gun traffickers are wise to that, although they're also getting firearms from licensed dealers.

Last month, an ATF official testified before a congressional subcommittee that more than 400 firearms purchased at gun shows in the Richmond, Va., area between 2002 and 2005 were later used in crimes. Checks of 302 people who had purchased guns from licensed dealers at those shows in a 15-month period revealed that 47 had provided false addresses.

An earlier report on illegal weapons by the ATF found that gun shows were the second-leading source of illegal firearms recovered in gun-trafficking investigations. In some cases, known or suspected terrorists bought guns at shows.

A known member of Hezbollah, for example, was convicted in 2001 in a federal court in Michigan for trying to smuggle guns into Lebanon. An undercover agent saw the man buy a weapon at a gun show without a background check.

Gun-rights advocates insist the shows are not a major source of weapons used in crimes. The NRA cites a 2001 Bureau of Justice Statistics report that said fewer than 1 percent of guns used in crimes came from gun shows.

"The biggest source of crime firearms is the black market," Arulanandam said. "Law enforcement always refers to criminals looking for a clean gun. What they're referring to is they want to find a firearm that's not traceable. And every time you go through a retail outlet or any FFL (federal firearms licensed dealer), you have a long paper trail."

Each year, more than 5,000 gun shows are held nationwide, according to the ATF. The National Association of Arms Shows says that an average of 2,500 to 3,000 people attend a typical show, purchasing between 100,000 and 300,000 guns annually.

"On any given weekend, there's a gun show going on someplace," Jamison said. "In the greater Kansas City area, there's probably one to two gun shows in any given month."

At a March 12 gun show at the 3 Trails Expo Center next to Bannister Mall, tables were teeming with handguns, assault rifles, knives and war memorabilia.

Several vendors were selling books and pamphlets such as "How to Make Disposable Silencers" and "Homemade Grenade Launchers." A few publications described how to convert semiautomatic weapons into machine guns - which is illegal under federal law.

But overall, the show appeared to be taking steps to assure the safe handling of weapons, and there was visible security.

Signs at the entrance warned, "No Loaded Guns Inside." Two off-duty Jackson County sheriff's deputies checked guns brought into the building. Other deputies strolled the aisles of the show, which organizer Waylon Pearson of R.K. Shows in Manchester, Iowa, said drew 4,000 people.

Lee Morlang's table included a Rock River AR-15 assault rifle for $850. Morlang said he was selling his private collection and therefore did not need a license. He estimated that 10 to 12 other vendors were unlicensed sellers who were not required to conduct background checks.

Morlang said he did not need any background check to tell him who should and should not be buying a gun. "I can read people like a book," he said. "If we get a bad person in here, we get rid of 'em."

Others at the show keep an eye out as well, he said. "There was a guard here yesterday, he saw two guys here that had been in prison. The minute they saw him, they hit the door."

But apparently that does not prevent all crime at the shows. Morlang said someone recently stole a .44-caliber handgun from him as he was loading weapons after a show. The same thing happened to another vendor, he said.

As he spoke, Morlang watched two men near his booth. One handed the other a wad of cash, who then gave the man a handgun - a possible violation of the law which requires handgun purchasers to first obtain a permit.

"See right there?" Morlang asked. "There's a transaction going on right in front of us of an unregistered gun." He shook his head, adding, "it's that kind of stuff that gives these shows a bad name."

Dean Parr, owner of Dean's Gun Shop in St. Joseph, Mo., said he and other licensed dealers have to abide by the same laws at gun shows as they do at their stores.

"If they buy a gun off an individual at a gun show, they don't have to do the paperwork," Parr conceded. "But they could do the same thing at a truck stop or somewhere else, too."

Parr, however, doubted that many criminals were getting guns at the shows.

"If they are, it's a very small percentage," he said. "But if there was anything they could do to monitor these shows better, it would be to have someone out in the parking lot to keep people from buying and selling guns out there."

The Jan. 15 gun show at the KCI Expo Center, sponsored by the Missouri Valley Arms Collectors Association, also enjoyed a huge turnout and appeared to be well run. Although that show offered fewer handguns than the March show, there were plenty of assault weapons.

The ATF had two representatives available to answer questions and several off-duty Kansas City police officers walked the aisles. Nearby, one vendor was selling what was purported to be armor-piercing ammunition, also known as "cop killer" bullets.

Even some gun show attendees seemed surprised at the array of weaponry.

"I don't see how that can be legal," one man remarked to a friend as he pointed toward a Bushmaster assault rifle - the kind of weapon used in the 2002 sniper spree that left 10 people dead in Washington, D.C., Maryland and Virginia.

Under current law, it is legal.

Eighteen months ago, Congress did not reauthorize the part of the Brady Law that banned the manufacture and sale of 19 kinds of military-style assault weapons. Now that the weapons are back on the market, authorities say they are trying to get tougher on weapons violations.

In fact, the U.S. attorney's office in Kansas City is among the top in the nation for the number of federal gun law prosecutions.

But gun-safety advocates point out those prosecutions, which they applaud, are mostly for felons possessing firearms or committing a felony with one - not for violators who buy and sell firearms illegally.

In 2003, only 532 of the more than 126,000 people nationwide who lied on a background check were prosecuted, according to a study by the Americans for Gun Safety Foundation. And just 234 cases were filed for possessing or selling stolen firearms, even though 40,000 stolen guns were recovered and returned to their owners.

Still, some gun-rights advocates complain that federal law enforcement agencies are too aggressive. Last month, they convinced a congressional subcommittee to hold hearings on the way the ATF investigated gun shows in Richmond, Va.

Gun show organizers charged that the ATF and local law enforcement scared off potential customers and racially profiled buyers. A top ATF official acknowledged that agents made some mistakes but denied any profiling and defended their tactics.

The ATF's Michael Bouchard told lawmakers that the agency polices only about 100 of the 5,000 gun shows annually. He said the agency focused on the Richmond-area shows after discovering that hundreds of firearms purchased at the shows in a three-year period were used in crimes.

During the investigation, Bouchard said agents witnessed a "straw purchase" - where a buyer allowed to own a gun turns around and sells it to someone who is not - that led them to a street gang whose leader was involved in a murder committed with an AK-47.

Authorities said that weapon also was acquired through a straw purchase at another gun show.

---

BACKGROUND CHECKS

Most background checks, which are required on all purchases from licensed dealers, are completed within two hours, and buyers are allowed to take their gun as soon as the check is over.

How they work:

If the background check does not go through by the time the gun show closes, the buyer is supposed to go to the dealer's place of business to follow up. Authorities say that does not always happen. At that point, gun transfers sometimes go on under the table, authorities say, but if an officer doesn't witness it, it is almost impossible to prove.

If the background check is not completed within the mandatory three days, the dealer can go ahead with the sale. If the background check eventually shows that the buyer is not allowed to have a gun, it is up to the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to try to get the gun back.

---

GUN SHOW FACTS AND FIGURES

Gun shows each year in the United States: More than 5,000.

Guns purchased each year at shows: 100,000 to 300,000.

Unlicensed gun sellers at shows: Up to one-fourth, according to Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives estimates.

Gun shows are the second-leading source of illegal firearms recovered in gun-trafficking investigations, according to the ATF.

States requiring background checks on the purchase of firearms at gun shows: 18. Missouri requires a permit for handgun purchases. Kansas doesn't require a permit.

What's the so-called "gun show loophole"? Licensed dealers must do background checks before selling guns. But unlicensed sellers don't. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives says up to one-fourth of gun show sellers are unlicensed and that gun shows are the second-leading source of illegal firearms recovered in gun-trafficking investigations.

_Sources: Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and the National Association of Arms Shows


skirt the law? it seems that if said criminal just purchased a gun he broke the law, he did not "skirt" anything

gun show loophole? what about the newspaper classifieds loophole?
or the buying a gun from a buddy loophole?
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:25:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By kc8ard:
::YAWN::

This endless trite never stops. I usually read the entire post, but this time I couldn't stomach getting through the first 4 paragraphs. If I had .02 cents for every person trying to deceive naive impressionable people that know nothing about firearms or firearms laws, I would probably be able to own an island somewhere out in the carribbean.



Tripe
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:25:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By j-fonz:

Originally Posted By dolanp:


I love my SKS, but SKS and sniper don't belong in the same sentence.


+1. Mine shoots Minute of Pieplate at 200 yards.


+1
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:25:52 AM EDT
this is better understood once you see the author....


Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:36:59 AM EDT
That story is such BS there is no “gun show loophole” if you buy from a dealer they do the background check and register your firearm just like they do in a shop. If it an individual they do the same thing they do if they sell at your home. You can buy a rifle with no paperwork from and individual in Missouri, you have to have a permit to buy a pistol. (Which sucks) The gun control people want al firearms transactions to go through a dealer. I sure the dealers will do that for a nominal fee. Which means that I can’t by a 22 from my own family with out going to a dealer. Their attitude is gun owners are just felons that just waiting to happen.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:54:26 AM EDT

Brooks recalled several teens who were shot last year in retaliation for robbing a drug dealer at gunpoint.

"One got killed, one lost a leg, and one was paralyzed," Brooks said. "This one fellow who I talked to (at the hospital) said they had bought those guns at gun shows. He said all you have to do is be 18 years old, and sometimes they don't ask you anything if you've got cash."



That's just a damn shame. We've got to close the Gunshow Loophole, for the sake of all those vulnerable young criminals.



Even some gun show attendees seemed surprised at the array of weaponry.

"I don't see how that can be legal," one man remarked to a friend as he pointed toward a Bushmaster assault rifle - the kind of weapon used in the 2002 sniper spree that left 10 people dead in Washington, D.C., Maryland and Virginia.



WOW, just WOW. EVEN SOME GUN SHOW ATTENDEES seemed surprised. Gee, Bushmasters MUST be evil. I just don't see HOW they can be legal! All black and scary-looking!


Folks, I think the next anti-gun buzzword is going to be "sniper," and it won't have the same meaning that we know. Remember before, when they took the term "assault rifle," changed it to "assault weapon," and somehow made it mean ANY semi-auto weapon with a high-capacity magazine, including pistols. The so-called AWB was directed at scary black rifles, but it encompassed pistols as well.

They could very well take the word "sniper" and pervert its meaning to be "anyone who shoots a gun at someone else." We already KNOW that, in their words, these assault weapons can only be used for ONE THING: to kill as many people as possible in the shortest amount of time. To allow these weapons to fall into the wrong hands would make them sniper rifles. At first we might think they mean .50 cal rifles, but they really mean ALL scary black rifles, and wooden ones, and pistols. We have to be very careful of the wording here, because they WILL try to sneak something else through. The people who sign the laws won't be paying real close attention to details. Don't think for a second that they haven't learned from their "mistakes" the last time.


Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:57:11 AM EDT
shit! if they ban anything that can hit people from a distance, all that will be left will be SKS and Nagant's!!
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:01:00 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:19:27 AM EDT
Bushmaster AR15s are legal? I better go buy one at a gunshow before the loophole is closedWill it ever end?
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:21:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew:
It's just another weekend at a Kansas City gun show, where there is so much firepower at your fingertips that even some gun enthusiasts shake their heads in wonder.



No. They're shaking their heads in sadness that they don't have more cash available to spend on it all!
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:25:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew:
It's just another weekend at a Kansas City gun show, where there is so much firepower at your fingertips that even some gun enthusiasts shake their heads in wonder.



No. They're shaking their heads in sadness that they don't have more cash available to spend on it all!



if I don't have at least 800 bucks, I don't even go.

My ocd torments me if I miss out on a good deal for weeks.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:44:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 9:45:38 AM EDT by thedoctors308]
Gun owners need to learn that you don't talk to the press - EVER.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 10:04:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By lt557:
That Al Brooks is a real racist piece of shit. I has to sit through a racial sensitivity class with him while in the Academy in the 90's.

If you are a white cop, you are a racist.



+1 if you are white, mexican, asian, or whatever else and don't live in the innercity and collect welfare then you are his enemy
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 10:07:35 AM EDT
And these people don't have any problem whatsoever with abortion clinics?

WTF?
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 10:27:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:
Always focus on the tools, not the causes.

Idiots.



Right on! It's never the person.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 10:28:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By j-fonz:

Originally Posted By dolanp:


I love my SKS, but SKS and sniper don't belong in the same sentence.


+1. Mine shoots Minute of Pieplate at 200 yards.



You mean minute of Rosies arse at 50 yards.

Link Posted: 3/30/2006 10:41:54 AM EDT
"In most states, including Missouri and Kansas, no background checks
are required to buy long guns - including assault rifles - from sellers who
do not have a federal firearms license."

holy s@#$ I need to move to missouri and kansas!
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 11:05:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By markmars:
That story is such BS there is no “gun show loophole” if you buy from a dealer they do the background check and register your firearm just like they do in a shop. If it an individual they do the same thing they do if they sell at your home. You can buy a rifle with no paperwork from and individual in Missouri, you have to have a permit to buy a pistol. (Which sucks) The gun control people want al firearms transactions to go through a dealer. I sure the dealers will do that for a nominal fee. Which means that I can’t by a 22 from my own family with out going to a dealer. Their attitude is gun owners are just felons that just waiting to happen.


you preach'n to the choir?
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 11:17:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 11:17:47 AM EDT by QShok]
Judy L. Thomas??




Judy L. Thomas, 42, is a projects reporter for The Kansas City Star. She joined The Star in 1995 and specialized in covering abortion and right-wing extremist groups before joining the projects desk.

Last year, Thomas won a national Society of Professional Journalists award for nondeadline reporting for her series, "AIDS in the Priesthood.'' She is the co-author of "Wrath of Angels: The American Abortion War,'' which was published by BasicBooks in 1998.

Thomas grew up on a Kansas farm, then became an over-the-road trucker for six years. She later graduated summa cum laude from Kansas State University with a degree in journalism....




Shok
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 11:27:26 AM EDT
Brooks recalled several teens who were shot last year in retaliation for robbing a drug dealer at gunpoint.

"One got killed, one lost a leg, and one was paralyzed," Brooks said. "This one fellow who I talked to (at the hospital) said they had bought those guns at gun shows. He said all you have to do is be 18 years old, and sometimes they don't ask you anything if you've got cash."



The real question is, why is Mayor Brooks so concerned about the safety of CRIMINALS???

When one criminal shoots another criminal, it is a good thing. That means there are fewer criminals on the street. I wish more criminals would shoot other criminals. As long as they are shooting other criminals, they are leaving the rest of us alone. That is fine with me.

Why do these do-gooder politicians want to protect the criminals so much?

Link Posted: 3/30/2006 11:41:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dolanp:


I love my SKS, but SKS and sniper don't belong in the same sentence.





I have to disagree. I stepped off 100 yards onetime and zeroed in on a target and hit it 'almost everytime I shot.' Since it was one of the 'small' 55 gallon barrles I was very impressed.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 12:40:26 PM EDT
Just like the energizer bunny.....
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 12:43:13 PM EDT
I dont like all this SKS bashing! you people dont know what the hell you are talking about. I worked at a gun shop once and i know stuff you dont know. Do some research. In Vietnam there was this VC sniper named Suc Muc Coc, Who managed to kill GI's with a scoped SKS, he got the VC medal for most whiteys killed in a day! Now ya see the thing is, in vietnam because of the thick jungle he and his spotter never had to take a shot of more than 15 meters but STILL that counts! Because he still had to sit there all day in uber camoflauge! I know all this to be true cause a guy came into the store with a "bring home" SKS that once belonged to Suc Muc Coc! He offered to give me the rifle for only 700$. 700$ for a piece of history? What a fool! he must've been desperate! (he was, he needed to buy crack) So i scooped it up. Pretty cool huh? Bet you wish you had it! I would've never learned this if i had'nt worked at a gun store.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 12:46:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 12:47:01 PM EDT by Melvinator2k0]
PEOPLE R BUYING GUNZ!?!
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 12:57:41 PM EDT
So much outrage about the gun but no outrage about the criminal shooting the drug dealer...criminals get all the sympathy.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:02:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By johnrj:
So much outrage about the gun but no outrage about the criminal shooting the drug dealer...criminals get all the sympathy.



no, cause the gun made em do it
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:10:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FITTER:

Brooks recalled several teens who were shot last year in retaliation for robbing a drug dealer at gunpoint.

"One got killed, one lost a leg, and one was paralyzed," Brooks said. "This one fellow who I talked to (at the hospital) said they had bought those guns at gun shows. He said all you have to do is be 18 years old, and sometimes they don't ask you anything if you've got cash."



That's just a damn shame. We've got to close the Gunshow Loophole, for the sake of all those vulnerable young criminals.



Even some gun show attendees seemed surprised at the array of weaponry.

"I don't see how that can be legal," one man remarked to a friend as he pointed toward a Bushmaster assault rifle - the kind of weapon used in the 2002 sniper spree that left 10 people dead in Washington, D.C., Maryland and Virginia.



WOW, just WOW. EVEN SOME GUN SHOW ATTENDEES seemed surprised. Gee, Bushmasters MUST be evil. I just don't see HOW they can be legal! All black and scary-looking!


Folks, I think the next anti-gun buzzword is going to be "sniper," and it won't have the same meaning that we know. Remember before, when they took the term "assault rifle," changed it to "assault weapon," and somehow made it mean ANY semi-auto weapon with a high-capacity magazine, including pistols. The so-called AWB was directed at scary black rifles, but it encompassed pistols as well.

They could very well take the word "sniper" and pervert its meaning to be "anyone who shoots a gun at someone else." We already KNOW that, in their words, these assault weapons can only be used for ONE THING: to kill as many people as possible in the shortest amount of time. To allow these weapons to fall into the wrong hands would make them sniper rifles. At first we might think they mean .50 cal rifles, but they really mean ALL scary black rifles, and wooden ones, and pistols. We have to be very careful of the wording here, because they WILL try to sneak something else through. The people who sign the laws won't be paying real close attention to details. Don't think for a second that they haven't learned from their "mistakes" the last time.





Way ahead of ya.

Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:12:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:

Originally Posted By Sub-MOA:
WOW!

You can buy guns at gunshows?!?!

Man, I've been paying the $8.00 cover charge just for the Jerky, KettleKorn and beanie babies.



I go to partake of the wisdom of the many SEALs and Delta operators and Force Recon guys who attend. It is also where I get all my information about current gun laws.



LOLOLOL!!
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 4:59:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By johnrj:
So much outrage about the gun but no outrage about the criminal shooting the drug dealer...criminals get all the sympathy.



Criminal shooting the drug dealer?

I'd give the crim one year off his 20 year sentence.....for good behiour pre-incarceration.

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