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Posted: 3/29/2006 11:56:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 11:57:34 PM EDT by Dave_A]
Ok, you all know my stance on immigration - I disapprove of illgeal immigration, but also oppose wall building, the placing of military obstacles (wire/mines/etc) or stationing military personell on the borders (We have more important work overseas right now)... I believe the solution is found in punishing companies for hiring illegals, thus removing the jobs that motivate the illegals to come here....

BUT...

It should be OBVIOUS why no one is paying attention to the other side...

The pro-illegal-immigrant groups are holding MASSIVE demonstrations for their cause... Nationwide...

What are the anti-illegal-immigrant groups doing? Nothing productive, that's for sure... 'Citizen border patrols' & e-mails will do nothing at all. Unless folks who want real immigration reform - say, no amnesty & stiff punishment for illegal immigrants for those who hire them, combined with some sort of work-visa program to allow those who want in legally and are not here illegally to come, work & pay taxes - unless folks who support something like that get out and engage in massive demonstrations nationwide, they will be ignored....

Think about it... Where are the counterprotests??? Folks will march on washington over abortion or 'family values', but they won't rally over this issue... The end result is that the squeaky wheel will get the grease....

- Dave
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 12:05:37 AM EDT
I've heard of or seen counter protests at every protest site...they just aren't getting the same play time on the news. Wonder where the blame for that one goes...
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 12:12:17 AM EDT
I don't recall a bunch of anti-AWB marches back in 1985-6.

Nonetheless, when the next election rolled around those responsible for passing it got the message. Even Clinton recognizes (in his book) how badly Democrats got spanked for passing it.

It now seems some Republicans need clarification on the illegal amnesty issue.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 12:29:10 AM EDT
A counter-protest would be quickly labeled "racist" and "discriminatory". We have to be "diverse".


I like my idea.
Mark the border. 50 yards on the US side of the border, put up a 20 foot, prison-style chain link fence, razor wire and all. In 150 yard increments along this fence, on the US side of the fence, are towers with two armed border patrol agents. The 50 yards between the "actual border" and the "new border" will be known as the Shoot Zone", because thats what should happen when someone is within that area.
Each tower is equipped with communications equipment, two shotguns, two semi-auto carbines, and one scoped rifle with ammo for each. The agents would also have their issued sidearms. The towers would be manned 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 12:39:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TravisM1:
A counter-protest would be quickly labeled "racist" and "discriminatory". We have to be "diverse".


I like my idea.
Mark the border. 50 yards on the US side of the border, put up a 20 foot, prison-style chain link fence, razor wire and all. In 150 yard increments along this fence, on the US side of the fence, are towers with two armed border patrol agents. The 50 yards between the "actual border" and the "new border" will be known as the Shoot Zone", because thats what should happen when someone is within that area.
Each tower is equipped with communications equipment, two shotguns, two semi-auto carbines, and one scoped rifle with ammo for each. The agents would also have their issued sidearms. The towers would be manned 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.




Don't even have to do that, just mine one out of every 10 miles of the border, then post huge signs in Spanish all along the border: "There are millions of mines along this border, we are not sure where they all are, care to find out?"
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 12:44:34 AM EDT
I've been wondering that too. Polls show a massive support for a crack down on illegal immigrants. A huge march in DC would be very powerful.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 1:10:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 1:11:19 AM EDT by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By TravisM1:
A counter-protest would be quickly labeled "racist" and "discriminatory". We have to be "diverse".


I like my idea.
Mark the border. 50 yards on the US side of the border, put up a 20 foot, prison-style chain link fence, razor wire and all. In 150 yard increments along this fence, on the US side of the fence, are towers with two armed border patrol agents. The 50 yards between the "actual border" and the "new border" will be known as the Shoot Zone", because thats what should happen when someone is within that area.
Each tower is equipped with communications equipment, two shotguns, two semi-auto carbines, and one scoped rifle with ammo for each. The agents would also have their issued sidearms. The towers would be manned 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.



750-odd miles of border * 5280 ft-mile / 3 ft-yd = 1,320,000 towers...

Assuming 2 guards per tower, that's 2,640,000 troops PER SHIFT

We don't have that many soldiers in the entire military - there are only 1.5 million troops in the active duty service (that includes all branches - so obviously a good portion of them couldn't be used for guard duty (unless you want to shove some USAF LTC into a guard tower instead of in his F-22. And expect him to accurately fire weapons he may never have seen before (or engage targets with his Beretta 9mm))....

Check your facts, man....
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 1:12:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Check your facts, man....



How about every 500 or 750 yards?
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 1:20:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TravisM1:

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Check your facts, man....



How about every 500 or 7500 yards?



Maybe, the bottom line is this is not 1900. The maginot line was stupid, and so is massive manpower today. UAVs, Aerostats (they are already flying, just not with EO/IR sensors). You can monitor the border with seismic sensors, cameras, FLIR, UAVs, etc. We could shut it down with 2000 people, and the right technology.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 1:23:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 1:40:22 AM EDT by AROptics]
Check out the Israeli fence on the West Bank. Far less expensive. I did all the math and distances to cover in another thread but I don't have archive search function. Costs less than a year in Iraq.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/fence.html

And our fence? No mines, no machine guns, no razor wire. It would simply take longer for individuals to navigate than the Border Patrol response time and would channel vehicles (drugs, cesium, nukes) into chokepoints where they could be checked.

Will some will still find a way? Of course, but won't be millions and millions annually for the rest of time. And another thing, it would be tougher than legal immigration which would still be an option for the motivated.
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