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Posted: 3/29/2006 7:32:49 PM EDT
Let me be the first to say I'll take both, and how will Cali ban these?

I'm just glad they arn't going to be scraped.

blog.nogo.se/2006/03/30/want-a-us-battleship-the-navy-is-donating-two/

cryptome.org/don032906.htm
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 7:34:05 PM EDT
group buy?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 7:35:35 PM EDT
i holding out for a nuclear sub.

battleships are so yesterday..
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 7:35:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 7:36:21 PM EDT by Soylent]
Do you realize how much fun I could have on the high seas with that and a satellite uplink giving me hourly reports on the location of any Greenpeace boats?

Link Posted: 3/29/2006 7:36:04 PM EDT
GROUP BUY!

I thought the WISCONSIN was put in Norfolk as a museum ship.

San Francisco turned down the IOWA. Dont know where she will end up.

Link Posted: 3/29/2006 7:38:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 7:45:37 PM EDT by Col-Kurtz]
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 7:44:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 7:44:45 PM EDT by FlamingGlory]
So... Where do you bid/apply? hy.gif
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 7:50:17 PM EDT
Can we get a Letter of Marque to go with it?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 7:55:13 PM EDT
If we all pitch in we can do eet!

Is an 18" gun considered WMD or AOW? and on top of the high purchase price to Uncle Sam, would we have to pay that Gustpo ATF tax stamp for the guns?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 7:59:42 PM EDT
Sorry, she only has 16" guns. We should do a group buy and then sail her over and wear her barrels out flattening someplace we don't like.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 8:00:25 PM EDT
I think they're 16" guns.

I'd settle for just one main gun turret for a working yard ornament and a few thousand rounds ammo & powder bags. Hell, I'd even supply my own .45 ACP blank primers!

I'd fire a salute every morning in honor of the brave men & women of the United States Navy to meet the Navy's memorial requirement.

On the other hand, it'd be a shame to cut up a ship like that. Maybe I'd just live on it. That would be nice for tooling around Long Island Sound. Hell of a fishing boat!
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 8:04:09 PM EDT
The Wisconsin is already at the Hampton Roads Naval Museuem.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 8:05:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 8:14:00 PM EDT
The city of Stockton, CA (KA) is trying to get the Iowa. The city has been in the middle of a huge re-development kick. They've brought in two new pro sports teams, rebuilt all of down town, and now want to bring the Iowa into the west's farthest inland port. San Franciscistan didn't want a war ship parked at their peace loving harbor, so Stockton is hoping to spend some unGodly sum of money so that they can have her here for a year or two before they realize how much it is really going to cost them to keep her here. Then, while waiting for another city to take her off their hands, she will sit and rust and decay because the city doesn't have the funds to care for her.

As much as I would love to have the Iowa near me to visit, I hope Stockton doesn't get her. She would be better at Pearl in Hawaii or in Seattle or San Diego. It would be a shame to park such an incredible piece of history in a city that lost $400,000 promoting a Neil Diamond concert that was supposed to prove they could bring big names to town.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 8:17:50 PM EDT
San DIego would be a fantastic place for the IOWA.

Put her right next to the MIDWAY.

Link Posted: 3/29/2006 8:23:39 PM EDT
I agree right next to the Midway would be mighty fine. Screw SF they can't have her.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 8:28:09 PM EDT
I thought the Iowa was in the Mothball fleet right now - Carquinez Straits?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 8:30:32 PM EDT
I just thought of something, if SF got her, it would be illegal, no guns in SF
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 8:38:37 PM EDT
We'll know if an Arfcommer buys it, just be on the lookout for the following post:

Question for Hivemind: Mini Y-Comp or Phantom Vortex for 16" Barrel

Link Posted: 3/29/2006 8:40:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GabbasaurusRex:
I thought the Iowa was in the Mothball fleet right now - Carquinez Straits?



She's mothballed in Susuin Bay near Antioch, CA. There are a lot of service ships out there. It's part of the San Joaquin Delta, which has a deep water channel that goes all the way into the port of Stockton.

It's kind of funny looking out there, if you go to the right places along the levees, you can see what looks like ocean going frieghters sailing through a cornfield.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 8:47:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GabbasaurusRex:
I thought the Iowa was in the Mothball fleet right now - Carquinez Straits?



Take a look at my google map links

Arn't you located right near there
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 8:50:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Col-Kurtz:

Originally Posted By GabbasaurusRex:
I thought the Iowa was in the Mothball fleet right now - Carquinez Straits?



Take a look at my google map links

Arn't you located right near there


Yup, Benicia. I can see the mothball fleet from my church.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 8:57:31 PM EDT
There's been a lot of controversy lately over the city of San Francisco's rejection of the USS Iowa. Having lived in the Bay Area, all I can say is... San Francisco does not deserve the Iowa.

The Iowa should go someplace where the people are patriotic and actually want America to win its wars.

Sending Iowa to San Francisco would be an insult to the battleship and everyone who has ever served on her.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 9:05:18 PM EDT
I just wish I could see the look in the ATF agents' eyes when I am standing on the deck arguing that the entire battleship counts as a single destructive device and I should only have to pay for one tax stamp.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 9:14:33 PM EDT
Seems to make sense to park it next to USS Hornet. It's only ten miles away from where the ship currently is, and it'll make a nice companion ship.

NTM
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 9:19:28 PM EDT
Here are the locations of the four IOWA battleships on Google Earth:

IOWA 38 04 04.90 N 122 05 52.30 W
NEW JERSEY 39 56 22.00 N 75 07 59.00 W
MISSOURI 21 21 43.36 N 157 57 12.60 W
WISCONSIN 36 50 54.20 N 76 17 44.60 W


Link Posted: 3/29/2006 9:22:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 9:23:43 PM EDT by Mike_Mills]
I wonder if Long Beach, CA wants her? They could park her right next to the Queen Mary and the Russian submarine.

Of course, the "Spruce Goose" flew the coop but this would MORE than make up for that mistake.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 9:57:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mike_Mills:
I wonder if Long Beach, CA wants her? They could park her right next to the Queen Mary and the Russian submarine.

Of course, the "Spruce Goose" flew the coop but this would MORE than make up for that mistake.



The Queen Mary was the mistake.

Trying to maintain a ship that size without a lot of young draftees is very expensive forthe taxpayers. There's a reason that Los Angeles only has the bow of the Los Angeles on display.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 2:07:35 AM EDT
Bring her over to the east coast. How about New London....
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 2:14:03 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 2:40:31 AM EDT
We have the New Jersey here.. Standing watch over the Ben Franklin bridge.. She's the largest of the Iowa class BB's by 8". Yep you heard it. She's 8" longer than her sister ships and I believe the most decorated also. When her hull was laid here at the Philadelphia ship yard the workers decided that if she was going to bear the name New Jerey that she would have to be the largest in her class. So they somehow managed to sneek an extra 8" in her length..

I took my daughter to visit her last year. She got a real kick saluting the Ensign, the OOD and asking permission to board. They have a small flight sim ride of the scout plane that she carried. They had volunteers "Holystoning" her deck while we were there..

Link Posted: 3/30/2006 2:45:19 AM EDT
Impressive and beautiful ships.

I would NOT want to have been on the other end of a sustained barrage from one.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 4:03:21 AM EDT
A few facts before you stry to shoot her.

- It takes 660 pounds of gunpodwer to let sen one of her big shells on it's way Each grain of powder is a big as you thumb.
- Powder is loaded in 110 pound silk bags.
- Loading sequence is: load shell, 3 bags of powder followed by 3 more bags. If you are not real careful while operating the ram that pushes everything into place, you will get a misfire and have the tragedy that befell the Wisconsin. There are no "click stops" on the lever that controls the ram. It's controlled by a very skilled operator.
- Good crews an acomplish this loading feat every 30 seconds. After firing the barrel it drops to loading position while compressed air is blown through the barrel to remove any remaining burning embers. It is then returned to firing position. On the battleship (U.S.S. Washington: BB56) my father served on they got to the point where they could have their big guns ready to fire in 14 seconds. First captain was a real stickler for training. Probably saved the ship during it's many close calls.
- There were originally 20 5" guns on a battleship. These can be fired every 5 - 8 seconds. These guns were used for close in support of troops, to engage smaller ships and as anti-aircraft batteries. Good crews could usually hit a towed sleeve target on the thrid shot. Anti-aircraft firing was always aimed in the U.S. Navy and never just a bunch of flak thrown up in the hopes of hitting something. You had to be careful of where other ships were so you didn't hit them. What went up ahd to come down. According to my father a night time air attack on a fleet is the most spectacular thing he ever saw. Thousands of guns of various caliber going off all at once. To him fireworks were boring.
- A full broadside of all 9 16" guns was only done as a photo op. It really rattles the ship and actually pushes it sideways severla feet. Not unusual for it to pop electrical breakers and damage other equipment on board. Also usually done with less than full loads. One gun was usually used to find range and then other guns would be fired as they were ready to go. The gun itself recoils 6 feet into the turret when fired.
- Barrel life is measured in hundreds of rounds.
- There is a 16" tube you can see it, along with smaller tubed, at the old Watervliet Arsenal near Albany, NY. You can see it when you drive by on route 787 north as you pass the arsenal.
- Two types of shells. Bombardment shells weighing 2,200 pound and armor piercing weighing in at 2,700 pounds.
- Practical range of 21 miles with maximum range of 27 miles.
- During the Vietnam war, fighter jets would see the New Jersey firing it's big guns and the pilots would streak in and fly alongside the shells. This was strickly forbidden, but just too much temptation for the flyboys to resist. They would follow the shell to target and then peel off like a dive bomber at the last minute. The VC and ARVN could never figure out how such a small jet could carry such a big bomb.

- During WWII there were three classic battleship to battleship engagements.
1) Bismark v Hood. Hood blew up with all but 3 of her crew killed. A shell form the Bismark penetrated one of her powder magazines and she blew up like the Arizona did at Pearl Harbor.
2) Washington v Kirishima. Washington damaged Kirishima so bad she was abandoned and scuttled. This was a close in fight that started at about 8,000 yards. That's the battleship equivalent of two people in the same room with .45's going at it. Action was at night and was first action using radar controlled firing. This allowed American ships to stay dark while the Japanese ships needed searchlights to locate the enemy. South Dakota was in the fight too, but it made a few tactical blunders during the battle and was found by Japanese searchlights suffered several casualties and withdrew from the fight.
3) Battle of Leyte Gulf. Japanese lured big aircraft carriers and newer fast battleships away from area and then snuck in back door with sister ship to Yamato and other ships. Their object was to get amongst the invasion fleet and sink as much of it as they could before being sunk themselves. We were left with destroyers, "jeep carriers" and WWI battleships to protect invasion fleet and chase off Japanese. Navy did it at a cost of 2700 sailors lives. Admiral Halsey also lost 4 destroyers to a typhoon. Sunk with all personnel while driving through the storm to get at the bait the Japanese had dangled in front of him. An additional 1000 men lost in these incidents. Destroyers ran out of fuel and could not be refueled at sea during the typhoon.


The U.S.S. North Carolina (BB55) is the only battleship I have been on. It is the sister ship to the Washington. We took my parents down there in 1980. It was a close to the Washington as my father was ever able to come again as the state of Washington refused to ship as a memorial and she was scrapped in 1961. Got a great tour from my dad who knew every square inch of the ship. He served on the Washington for almost 6 years and was on every voyage it took except her trip into mothballs.


Link Posted: 3/30/2006 4:10:20 AM EDT
One thing to say about Battleships..

Real Navy.. Fuckin A!
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 4:46:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 4:52:56 AM EDT by 1DaveF]
Do the 16" guns have M4 feed ramps? I'm not sure if it will load right without them. Can I bump fire it? Bing it to Stockton. It's only a 2 hr. drive for me. At least Stockton Wants her and is willing to take a risk. Like a turtle, you don't get anywhere unless you stick your neck out!
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 6:21:43 AM EDT
Great reply gaweidert!

Have you read the book BATTLSHIP AT WAR by Ivan Musicant? It's "The Epic Story of the USS Washingtion." A very good read, you'll really like it I imagine.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 6:33:01 AM EDT
Tag
Bumpfire it
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 6:42:38 AM EDT

Gaweidert, those tick points were awesome..but:


Originally Posted By gaweidert:
- During the Vietnam war, fighter jets would see the New Jersey firing it's big guns and the pilots would streak in and fly alongside the shells. This was strickly forbidden, but just too much temptation for the flyboys to resist. They would follow the shell to target and then peel off like a dive bomber at the last minute. The VC and ARVN could never figure out how such a small jet could carry such a big bomb.




This is the coolest thing I have read all day.

Link Posted: 3/30/2006 6:43:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 6:48:07 AM EDT by NimmerMehr]

Originally Posted By Soylent:
Do you realize how much fun I could have on the high seas with that and a satellite uplink giving me hourly reports on the location of any Greenpeace boats?



Well, if you in international waters, can't you just open fire on them and report them as "sunk".

Edit:
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 7:39:36 AM EDT
The USS Massachusetts could use a friend
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 7:44:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 7:52:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FunYun1983:
The USS Massachusetts could use a friend



I wish they would bring her to Battleship Cove. I used to drive to Newport about once a month just to look at her when she was mothballed here with the carriers. I was very upset when they moved her away.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:04:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1DaveF:
Do the 16" guns have M4 feed ramps? I'm not sure if it will load right without them. Can I bump fire it? Bing it to Stockton. It's only a 2 hr. drive for me. At least Stockton Wants her and is willing to take a risk. Like a turtle, you don't get anywhere unless you stick your neck out!



Yeah, Stockton "WANTS" her, but what is their motivation. Do they want to have a historic piece of military history that they can cherish and care for to make sure it is there for future generations to admire and respect?

Or did FORMER city manager Mark "Who cares about the budget" Lewis start the ball just to get another tourist attraction for the money?

I hope it's for the cherished piece of history, but after living in and near Stockton for nearly 20 years now, I'm not holding my breath. If they do get it, I pray they take care of her.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:11:01 AM EDT
Let's see.. Artillery shell in flight, Mach 2..? Speed of F-4... not so fast. Not least also, trying to turn the jet fast enough to follow the shell... yeah, right...


- Loading sequence is: load shell, 3 bags of powder followed by 3 more bags. If you are not real careful while operating the ram that pushes everything into place, you will get a misfire and have the tragedy that befell the Wisconsin.


Wisconsin?

NTM
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:15:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PaDanby:

Originally Posted By Mike_Mills:
I wonder if Long Beach, CA wants her? They could park her right next to the Queen Mary and the Russian submarine.

Of course, the "Spruce Goose" flew the coop but this would MORE than make up for that mistake.



The Queen Mary was the mistake.

Trying to maintain a ship that size without a lot of young draftees is very expensive forthe taxpayers. There's a reason that Los Angeles only has the bow of the Los Angeles on display.



well there's a job for the illegals to do....work the ship for 5 years and get your papers.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:17:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 8:18:39 AM EDT by 1DaveF]

"Yeah, Stockton "WANTS" her, but what is their motivation. Do they want to have a historic piece of military history that they can cherish and care for to make sure it is there for future generations to admire and respect?

Or did FORMER city manager Mark "Who cares about the budget" Lewis start the ball just to get another tourist attraction for the money?

I hope it's for the cherished piece of history, but after living in and near Stockton for nearly 20 years now, I'm not holding my breath. If they do get it, I pray they take care of her."


I don't know the motivation for wanting her. If it is to be a successful tourist attraction, it should be maintained as a floating museum. If the city spends the money to do it, they should reap the benefits. Can an individual buy a battleship? Maybe Spanos could partner with the city? I'm not from Stockton, so I don't know the local politics.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:22:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 9:31:08 AM EDT by dayv27]

Originally Posted By 1DaveF:

I don't know the motivation for wanting her. If it is to be a successful tourist attraction, it should be maintained as a floating museum. If the city spends the money to do it, they should reap the benefits. Can an individual buy a battleship? Maybe Spanos could partner with the city? I'm not from Stockton, so I don't know the local politics.



The worst part of it all, is how you would have to get to where they are going to park her.

Ya know the scene in "Vacation" where they are driving through the wrong side of town, and the "Roll 'em up!" line? It starts with that off of the freeway, and then past a sulfur storage area, through a not-well-protected gasoline distribution center, over a nearly one lane bridge, and finally back into the closed down Naval communication station. To make the trip in attractive, and safe, for tourists, they are going to have to spend a boat load of money just to repair the roads from all of the truck traffic, and re-do the bridge that enters the naval base. It's going to be more expensive to make the nesseccary upgrades to get the people to the boat than it will be to get the boat to Stockton.


Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:25:35 AM EDT
Man, talk about the ultimate bachelor pad!
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:46:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bumblebee_Bob:
Can we get a Letter of Marque to go with it?



Aaarrrrrrrrr matey. We be salin for the African coasty to keel haul some skinnys. WHAT SAY YE??????
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 10:08:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 10:12:00 AM EDT by WayneG]

Originally Posted By Col-Kurtz:
I found the Iowa! I'm going to need a bigger pool.

maps.google.com/?ll=38.068243,-122.097663&spn=0.002547,0.004098&t=h


and her friend

maps.google.com/?ll=36.848427,-76.295607&spn=0.002589,0.004098&t=h



I inspect ships out at the MARAD facility at Susuin Bay, (my command converts decommed vessels for "other work") so I've seen the IOWA up close. She's gonna need a lot of work!

WISCONSIN, on the other hand, is already set up for conversion here in beautiful Norfolk. The interior is environmentally sealed, so she's going to have to be "opened up" for public access, but that's not going to be too hard.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 10:15:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 10:18:54 AM EDT by gaweidert]
I have a few copies of the book "Battleship At War". My late father met the author at a reunion once hwen he was writing the book. I got him a copy of it when ti came out. Surprisingly, he read it to see where the heck they ahd been durign the war. A lot of time the crew was in the dark as to where exactly they were.

The 16" shell does not hold it's velocity all that well for obvious reasons. When you are on the receiving end, you an hear and sometimes see them coming at you. Because of the high arc trajectory and cross sectional area of the round it slows down pretty quick. Muzzzle velocity of the shells is as follows

16" AP: 2300 fps.
16" Bombardment: 2635 fps.

AP shells were used in Vietnam to destroy enemy pillboxes. They would be fired to land short of the target, burrow into the soil and explode under the fortification. All AP shells had a built in delay so that they would not explode on contact but only after burrowing into a ships vital areas.
For those interested in one of the most decorated warships in American History here is a link to the site dedicated to the Washington. www.usswashington.com/

For those in the Navy today, the people who served on these ships had some really long deployments. My father was one at sea for 22 months. To his dying day, never learned to swim.

Here's a link to his photo (William P. WeidertSr.)
www.usswashington.com/profil1a.htm#williampweidert

He passed away in 1999 and is still sorely missed. Missing form his awards are three bronze stars. I never knew he had earned them unti lafter he had died.
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