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Posted: 3/29/2006 3:30:13 PM EDT
I keep hearing that we have about 17,000 in Iraq alone.
I am ex military and when I joined up I had to have a SS number,
birth certificate. Doesn't the military ask about these things .
The military must know they are letting in law breakers.
Why is this allowed.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 3:37:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 3:37:57 PM EDT by die-tryin]
QUOTAS ,No more , No less. Its to put bodies in. Recruiters will let ALOT of things get past that arent obvious (unless they are missing limbs. lol)
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 3:40:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 3:40:58 PM EDT by jpman7]
They volunteer?!
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 3:42:26 PM EDT
noncitizen aliens are allowed in and heavily recruited, they earn citizenship after a certain period as well
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 3:44:42 PM EDT
So why do we need amnesty? We want all the lazy cowards too?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 3:46:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 3:46:58 PM EDT by Lord_Grey_Boots]
They use fake green cards, or fake SSN cards. There was case about a year ago about soldier who joined using a fake green card, served honorably for a year or so, but got caught.

Is the 17,000 illegal aliens, or legal aliens?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 3:46:33 PM EDT
In the Corps, I served with citizens from Panama, Philippines, South Korea & who knows where else. As long as there's no real need for a security clearance, the background info can be kinda/sorta loose. Most of the guys with this background were in the common jobs: grunt, truck driver, cook, etc. etc.

Most of those guys were pretty good Marines as well.

Link Posted: 3/29/2006 3:47:07 PM EDT
it doesn't bother me... if they want to serve this country and become a productive citizen after gaining citizenship, then why not. it's a hell of a lot better than jumping the border and becoming a burden on society... in fact, it's a whole lot better than awhat a lot of Americans do.

i actually used to work with a guy who's father(a mexican citizen at the time) joined the United States military and rose to the rank of colonel.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 3:49:52 PM EDT
I doubt that they are "illegal". There are many "non-citizens" in the armed forces, but do not confuse them with "illegals".
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 3:49:59 PM EDT
actual illegals or just non-citizens?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 3:50:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BobCole:

Most of those guys were pretty good Marines as well.





A big +1.

I had two guys in my squad during Desert Shield/Storm, one from Mexico and another from Peru, and they were the best Marines I had. I only had to tell them once to do something and it would get done right.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 3:51:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise:
noncitizen aliens are allowed in and heavily recruited, they earn citizenship after a certain period as well



There were guys in my platoon that were not we not US born .
I understand that but they had to have a birth certifacte from somewhere.
All the military would have to do is run a check to see if they are here legally.
So what you are saying is we could have AL QAEDA joining the military by them
refusing to do any background checks.
Tell me where I'm wrong, if I am

Link Posted: 3/29/2006 3:53:43 PM EDT
The 17,000 was Illegal by fox news and many other sources on TV news
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 3:57:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bubblehead597:
I doubt that they are "illegal". There are many "non-citizens" in the armed forces, but do not confuse them with "illegals".



pray tell how they are not illegal?!
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 3:58:45 PM EDT
17K in Iraq in the military - doubt it. That's about 15% of the force in country. That would be an overwhelming majority of Hispanics in the military in Iraq. I guess if an illegal could get an SSN and was in a billet that did not require a security clearance it would be possible.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:00:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JHill:

Originally Posted By Bubblehead597:
I doubt that they are "illegal". There are many "non-citizens" in the armed forces, but do not confuse them with "illegals".



pray tell how they are not illegal?!



Non-citizens are permitted to enlist in the miltary in jobs that do not require a security clearance. Lot of Filipinos earned their citizenship that way. I had an Irish citizen who was an aircraft engine tech who worked for me as well.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:01:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 4:03:56 PM EDT by Mauser101]
Birth certificates and social security cards are easily forgable. Have a look at yours. My original birth certificate looks like a poorly made xerox with an embossed seal and the SS card is basicly a cheap color copy...and that's only 26 years old. Passports and drivers liscences are harder, but you just need more money.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:02:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JHill:

Originally Posted By Bubblehead597:
I doubt that they are "illegal". There are many "non-citizens" in the armed forces, but do not confuse them with "illegals".



pray tell how they are not illegal?!



Good grief! Haven't you guys ever heard of LEGAL resident aliens?

The aliens in the military are not the illegal ones.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:02:51 PM EDT
They sign their name and get a resident status if they make it out alive.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:05:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By H46Driver:

Originally Posted By JHill:

Originally Posted By Bubblehead597:
I doubt that they are "illegal". There are many "non-citizens" in the armed forces, but do not confuse them with "illegals".



pray tell how they are not illegal?!



Non-citizens are permitted to enlist in the military in jobs that do not require a security clearance. Lot of Filipinos earned their citizenship that way. I had an Irish citizen who was an aircraft engine tech who worked for me as well.



I know that you do not have to be a citizen to join , but you are suppose to be here legally in the country. The military should do these kind of checks but it appears they are not.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:07:54 PM EDT
*Hudson*Somebody said 'Alien' and she though they meant 'Illegal Alien' and signed up! *Hudson*
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:09:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheTracker:

Originally Posted By H46Driver:

Originally Posted By JHill:

Originally Posted By Bubblehead597:
I doubt that they are "illegal". There are many "non-citizens" in the armed forces, but do not confuse them with "illegals".



pray tell how they are not illegal?!



Non-citizens are permitted to enlist in the military in jobs that do not require a security clearance. Lot of Filipinos earned their citizenship that way. I had an Irish citizen who was an aircraft engine tech who worked for me as well.



I know that you do not have to be a citizen to join , but you are suppose to be here legally in the country. The military should do these kind of checks but it appears they are not.



And where do you come by this info that they are illegals?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:19:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By TheTracker:

Originally Posted By H46Driver:

Originally Posted By JHill:

Originally Posted By Bubblehead597:
I doubt that they are "illegal". There are many "non-citizens" in the armed forces, but do not confuse them with "illegals".



pray tell how they are not illegal?!



Non-citizens are permitted to enlist in the military in jobs that do not require a security clearance. Lot of Filipinos earned their citizenship that way. I had an Irish citizen who was an aircraft engine tech who worked for me as well.



I know that you do not have to be a citizen to join , but you are suppose to be here legally in the country. The military should do these kind of checks but it appears they are not.



And where do you come by this info that they are illegals?



I wish I had a source to link to but I don't. Just what I heard before on the news.
If they are found out they do discharge them , but it was reported they just do not really
investigate to find them unless something happens with them and there are red flags raised.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:25:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By JHill:

Originally Posted By Bubblehead597:
I doubt that they are "illegal". There are many "non-citizens" in the armed forces, but do not confuse them with "illegals".



pray tell how they are not illegal?!



Good grief! Haven't you guys ever heard of LEGAL resident aliens?

The aliens in the military are not the illegal ones.



Exactly right, and interesting that some people do not have a clue about legal residency.

Possessing a "Green Card" fulfilled the citizenship requirement for enlistment when I was recruiting ('89-'92). Having legal residency and a Social Security Card meets enlistment requirements.

The individual's background will be checked, but the recruiter is not required to perform any investigations like some of you think.

Once on active duty, resident aliens did have to gain citizenship by a certain amount of time or they would be separated from the military.


Chris
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:28:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheTracker:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By TheTracker:

Originally Posted By H46Driver:

Originally Posted By JHill:

Originally Posted By Bubblehead597:
I doubt that they are "illegal". There are many "non-citizens" in the armed forces, but do not confuse them with "illegals".



pray tell how they are not illegal?!



Non-citizens are permitted to enlist in the military in jobs that do not require a security clearance. Lot of Filipinos earned their citizenship that way. I had an Irish citizen who was an aircraft engine tech who worked for me as well.



I know that you do not have to be a citizen to join , but you are suppose to be here legally in the country. The military should do these kind of checks but it appears they are not.



And where do you come by this info that they are illegals?



I wish I had a source to link to but I don't. Just what I heard before on the news.
If they are found out they do discharge them , but it was reported they just do not really
investigate to find them unless something happens with them and there are red flags raised.



Oh, you heard it on the news???? What, CNN? Those reports are wrong and just more bullshit to make the military look bad.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:30:37 PM EDT
Uhh, more arfcom misinfo. Illegals are not allowed into the military but green card holders are. Green card holders are not automatically given citizenship after they serve, but it helps. After Iraqi Freedom I, the DOD did grant citizenship to a mess of green card holders. Mainly a pR thing.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:37:43 PM EDT
A Navy coworker of mine a couple of years ago swam the River ant the age of 12. Then came amnesty. He now is a 10 year Navy veteran with a TS/SCI. Go figure.

In his defense he is a good guy.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:38:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By TheTracker:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By TheTracker:

Originally Posted By H46Driver:

Originally Posted By JHill:

Originally Posted By Bubblehead597:
I doubt that they are "illegal". There are many "non-citizens" in the armed forces, but do not confuse them with "illegals".



pray tell how they are not illegal?!



Non-citizens are permitted to enlist in the military in jobs that do not require a security clearance. Lot of Filipinos earned their citizenship that way. I had an Irish citizen who was an aircraft engine tech who worked for me as well.



I know that you do not have to be a citizen to join , but you are suppose to be here legally in the country. The military should do these kind of checks but it appears they are not.



And where do you come by this info that they are illegals?



I wish I had a source to link to but I don't. Just what I heard before on the news.
If they are found out they do discharge them , but it was reported they just do not really
investigate to find them unless something happens with them and there are red flags raised.



Oh, you heard it on the news???? What, CNN? Those reports are wrong and just more bullshit to make the military look bad.



I was just asking if someone had heard this. And I hope this is not true.
Marine for 8 years
Semper Fi

and I think it was on both fox and CNN ,but maybe I just misheard it and it was said it was legal
aliens.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:46:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheTracker:

All the military would have to do is run a check to see if they are here legally.






I knew Marines who joined overseas, never hit the US until they came for boot camp.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:48:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CannoncockerUSMC:
Uhh, more arfcom misinfo. Illegals are not allowed into the military but green card holders are.






Yet more misinfo.


Foreign recruits do not have to have a "green card" per se. Some joined from PI, etc.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 5:05:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BobCole:

Originally Posted By CannoncockerUSMC:
Uhh, more arfcom misinfo. Illegals are not allowed into the military but green card holders are.






Yet more misinfo.


Foreign recruits do not have to have a "green card" per se. Some joined from PI, etc.



What you're stating must be branch-specific, because it is not outlined in the Army regulation (AR 601-210) for enlistment.

2–4. Citizenship
a. Applicant is eligible for enlistment if any of the following applies:
(1) Citizen of the United States.
(2) Alien who has been lawfully admitted to the United States for permanent residence.
(3) National of the United States.
(4) Citizens (to include naturalized citizens) of the Federated States of Micronesia (FSM), Palau, and the Republic of the Marshall Islands (RMI).
(5) Applicants and enlistees will be advised that, if they are not a U.S. Citizen, U.S. National, or a citizen of the FSM, Palau, or the RMI that they must obtain U.S. citizenship to remain in the U.S. Army for more than 8 years.

b. Documents to verify eligibility include (return all documents to applicant after proper citizenship entries are made on the DD Form 1966):
(1) For U.S. citizens.
(a) Birth certificate.
(b) INS Form N–550/551/570 (Naturalization Certificate).
(c) INS G–845 (Verification Request).
(d) U.S. passport.
(e) DD Form 372 (Request for Birth Verification).
(f) DS Form 1350 (Certification of Birth).
(g) FS Form 545 (Certification of Birth Abroad of U.S. Citizen).
(h) FS Form 240 (Report of Birth Abroad of U.S. Citizens).
(i) Tribal card (not expired) or letter from tribal council for American Indians born in Canada under the Jay Treaty.

(2) For aliens. Applicants must present their INS Form I–551 (Permanent Residence Card) showing that the person has been admitted to the United States for permanent residence. INS I–551 cards issued after 1989 are only valid for 10 years and must be renewed. Additionally, any INS I–551 card with an expiration date within 6 months of the accession date must be renewed. Applicants with expired cards keep their permanent residence status; however, they must apply for renewal of their permanent residence status INS I–551 card and must obtain verification in the form of an original receipt from the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services indicating that the applicant has paid for an INS I–90
(Application to Replace Permanent Resident) renewal application prior to shipment to training. INS I–151 cards are no longer valid and applicant must obtain an INS I–551 card. Resident alien cards without the picture of the applicant are invalid for enlistment purposes. Resident aliens must provide proof of place of birth.

(5) For foreign nationals. Persons other than U.S. citizens or lawfully admitted permanent resident aliens are generally not authorized to enlist according to 10 USC 3253. However, the following exception exists with respect to the island nations of the FSM and the RMI.


I wouldn't think that the basic criteria for enlistment would vary too much between branches.


Chris
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 5:06:46 PM EDT
i needed to prove citizenship when i joined ROTC. they let non-citizens join, but you need to be a citizen before commissioning.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 5:23:37 PM EDT
The amount of misinformation is astounding.

1. They are not Illegal. They require a Green Card to enlist in a non security clearance MOS.
2. Even grunts go through a background check DOD/FBI. We find out about all those
supposed sealed records while a juvenile and more. Backgrounds are thorough, and
now 30 days delay min before you enlist and ship.
3. Serve honorably in a combat zone they get automatic citzenship (rightfully so).
4. While serving and in good standing the Army National Guard pays citizenship fees (do not know about others).

There it is in plain English. It may not be 100% but its damn near it.

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