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Posted: 3/29/2006 10:18:45 AM EDT
Anyone looking for work?

HH
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

U.S. firm offers 'private armies' for low-intensity conflicts



SPECIAL TO WORLD TRIBUNE.COM
Wednesday, March 29, 2006

AMMAN — A leading U.S. security firm has offered to provide forces for any counter-insurgency mission around the world.

J. Cofer Black, vice chairman of Blackwater USA told the Special Operations Forces Exhibition (Sofex-2006), that his company could supply private soldiers to any country. Black, a former U.S. State Department counter-terrorism coordinator, said Blackwater has been marketing the concept of private armies for low-intensity conflicts.

"About a year ago, we realized we could do it," Black said.
Blackwater has been a leading private security firm in Iraq. The company provides thousands of foreign and Iraqi personnel for government and private security missions.

In his presentation in Amman, Jordan, on March 27, Black said Blackwater could supply peace-keeping forces. He said the company was capable of providing a brigade-sized force on alert.

One option, Black said, was for Blackwater to provide forces for Sudan's Darfour province. He said the company could bolster existing peace-keeping forces from the African Union.

"I believe there is a contribution to be made by a small force," Black said. "The issue is who's going to let us play on their team?"

Black said Blackwater would not participate in conventional military operations. He said he has discussed his concept with the United States and NATO.

"There is clear potential to conduct security operations at a fraction of the coast of NATO operations," Black said. "It's unusual and that's why I'm raising it. This is not what you do if your objective is more money."

Link Posted: 3/29/2006 10:19:42 AM EDT
GO ARFCOM! When did we volunteer?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 10:21:57 AM EDT
Hey, sweet - I'm a pretty low intensity guy, this is a perfect match!
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 10:23:29 AM EDT
Any room for a low-speed, high-drag non-operator in this army?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 10:25:18 AM EDT
Cool!
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 10:30:48 AM EDT
Hmmm, think they would let me bring my Play Station and bean bag chair?

Link Posted: 3/29/2006 11:31:11 AM EDT
This is a big departure from just doing security work.

Reminds me of Executive Outcomes.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 11:37:07 AM EDT
What if both sides want to hire them?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 11:38:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 11:38:55 AM EDT by SmilingBandit]

Originally Posted By bcw107:
What if both sides want to hire them?



Bidding war? (Low intensity of course)
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 11:38:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Reminds me of Executive Outcomes.



They were fairly successful in their time...
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 11:39:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bcw107:
What if both sides want to hire them?



Only shoot at people with less seniority than you. And remember, dead men can't file complaints with your superiors!
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 11:40:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
This is a big departure from just doing security work.

Reminds me of Executive Outcomes.



They're creeping dangerously close to the "M" word and anybody working for Blackwater will have to deal with that.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 11:44:01 AM EDT
How big is a brigade ?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 11:44:56 AM EDT
A brigade sized force? Woah.

It is an interesting concept. They would probably be cheaper and more effective than putting in peacekeepers from Ministan. Presumably they would get ROEs from the UN or something.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 11:48:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
This is a big departure from just doing security work.

Reminds me of Executive Outcomes.



They're creeping dangerously close to the "M" word and anybody working for Blackwater will have to deal with that.



That's exactly what I was thinking.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 11:52:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HoustonHusker: Anyone looking for work?
That's great news. The rest of the backwards planet is "insourcing" jobs to gun-toting Team Americans.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 11:52:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By eswanson:

Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
This is a big departure from just doing security work.

Reminds me of Executive Outcomes.



They're creeping dangerously close to the "M" word and anybody working for Blackwater will have to deal with that.



That's exactly what I was thinking.



I hate to break it to you but this puts them squarely in the definition of the "M" word fellas.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 11:52:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE:
They're creeping dangerously close to the "M" word and anybody working for Blackwater will have to deal with that.



What, mercenaries? Seems to me that's exactly what they are. Is that a bad thing? Or were you thinking of another word?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 11:52:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HoustonHusker:
Anyone looking for work?

HH
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

U.S. firm offers 'private armies' for low-intensity conflicts



SPECIAL TO WORLD TRIBUNE.COM
Wednesday, March 29, 2006

AMMAN — A leading U.S. security firm has offered to provide forces for any counter-insurgency mission around the world.

J. Cofer Black, vice chairman of Blackwater USA told the Special Operations Forces Exhibition (Sofex-2006), that his company could supply private soldiers to any country. Black, a former U.S. State Department counter-terrorism coordinator, said Blackwater has been marketing the concept of private armies for low-intensity conflicts.

"About a year ago, we realized we could do it," Black said.
Blackwater has been a leading private security firm in Iraq. The company provides thousands of foreign and Iraqi personnel for government and private security missions.

In his presentation in Amman, Jordan, on March 27, Black said Blackwater could supply peace-keeping forces. He said the company was capable of providing a brigade-sized force on alert.

One option, Black said, was for Blackwater to provide forces for Sudan's Darfour province. He said the company could bolster existing peace-keeping forces from the African Union.

"I believe there is a contribution to be made by a small force," Black said. "The issue is who's going to let us play on their team?"

Black said Blackwater would not participate in conventional military operations. He said he has discussed his concept with the United States and NATO.

"There is clear potential to conduct security operations at a fraction of the coast of NATO operations," Black said. "It's unusual and that's why I'm raising it. This is not what you do if your objective is more money."




Saw this coming. Executive Outcomes had real success early on in Africa till Klinton effed it up. Mersc are usually cheaper to the taxpayer too. Mercs are how Africa will be cleaned up.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 11:55:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 11:55:45 AM EDT by Bama-Shooter]

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Saw this coming. Executive Outcomes had real success early on in Africa till Klinton effed it up. Mersc are usually cheaper to the taxpayer too. Mercs are how Africa will be cleaned up.



Mercs in Africa. Hmmmm...sounds famaliar.

Where's my Wild Geese movie at?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 11:56:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
This is a big departure from just doing security work.

Reminds me of Executive Outcomes.



They're creeping dangerously close to the "M" word and anybody working for Blackwater will have to deal with that.




I've yet to see what's so bad about the "m" word. It isn't the '60s.

EO did a better job at Peacekeeping than the UN with their connections to "real" militaries.

I'd want a brigade of Blackwater boys watching my back than Jordanians in blue berets.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 11:57:47 AM EDT
I can just imagine the great intel they get before an operation too.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:00:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 12:01:34 PM EDT by Spade]

Originally Posted By sgthoskins:
I can just imagine the great intel they get before an operation too.



You mean like from the private intel companies that exist? Hell, you'll get better intel from a private company often than from the CIA, who sometimes decides that they just don't feel like doing something when ordered to?

Or they could just have their own intel and analysis guys inside the company. Some companies have that you know.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:00:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:02:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Spade:

Originally Posted By sgthoskins:
I can just imagine the great intel they get before an operation too.



You mean like from the private intel companies that exist? Hell, you'll get better intel from a private company often than from the CIA, who sometimes decides that they just don't feel like doing something when ordered to?

Or they could just have their own intel and analysis guys inside the company. Some companies have that you know.



Nah Spade, I was talking about the country that hires the firm. I can't imagine what kind of info they would pass out to the contractor. Could be a mess.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:04:32 PM EDT
Be the "Wild Geese"
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:06:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sgthoskins:

Originally Posted By Spade:

Originally Posted By sgthoskins:
I can just imagine the great intel they get before an operation too.



You mean like from the private intel companies that exist? Hell, you'll get better intel from a private company often than from the CIA, who sometimes decides that they just don't feel like doing something when ordered to?

Or they could just have their own intel and analysis guys inside the company. Some companies have that you know.



Nah Spade, I was talking about the country that hires the firm. I can't imagine what kind of info they would pass out to the contractor. Could be a mess.



Never heard of the phrase "trust but verify" huh?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:06:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sgthoskins:
Nah Spade, I was talking about the country that hires the firm. I can't imagine what kind of info they would pass out to the contractor. Could be a mess.



Well, you'd hope the contractor would be smart enough to do plenty of research before they got the contract and all.

And have a couple cargo planes on standbye to leave.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:06:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Admiral_Crunch:

Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE:
They're creeping dangerously close to the "M" word and anybody working for Blackwater will have to deal with that.



What, mercenaries? Seems to me that's exactly what they are. Is that a bad thing? Or were you thinking of another word?



There were HUGE ARFCOM squabbles about the true definition of "Mercenary" back when the four Blackwater contractors were killed at the bridge in Fallujah. Very bitter.

I don't have a problem with calling "private armies" the "Mercenary" word, but Blackwater employees have categorically rejected the word. I'm anxious to see how it's handled.

For the record, I don't have a problem with the word or the people who perform the JOB, as long as it's not under the color of the American government.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:08:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Spade:

Originally Posted By sgthoskins:
Nah Spade, I was talking about the country that hires the firm. I can't imagine what kind of info they would pass out to the contractor. Could be a mess.



Well, you'd hope the contractor would be smart enough to do plenty of research before they got the contract and all.

And have a couple cargo planes on standbye to leave.



One would think and hope.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:25:01 PM EDT
Why did they not like the term "mercenary"?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:26:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By str8t1:
Why did they not like the term "mercenary"?



They didn't like the negative connotations and, as "contractors" to the US government and private companies in a defensive/security role, thought the term didn't apply.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:32:30 PM EDT
Blackwater was being paid by a contract that the US government provided.
I would say if they start accepting money from foreign govements to send private armies.
I think that is mercenary work. but Iam not saying that there is anything wrong with it.
Just call it what it is.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:35:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 12:36:42 PM EDT by Spade]

Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE:

I don't have a problem with calling "private armies" the "Mercenary" word, but Blackwater employees have categorically rejected the word. I'm anxious to see how it's handled.




Oh.

I intern for a government contractor, and didn't mind the term when I got called it. I embrace it. Long tradition, with a very Irish connection at times. So I like it. Even if I do sit at a desk and pass reports to people who get to travel and do fun things. I make a mean big white binder too.

"God take away your alms. For as you live by charity, so do I by war, and to me it is genuine a vocation as yours." - Sir John Hawkwood, Mercenary General
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:39:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 1:51:49 PM EDT by CitySlicker]
This reminds me of Executive Outcomes (forcibly shut down in '98)...
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:52:15 PM EDT
tag for later reading
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 1:51:09 PM EDT
Would the Geneva Convention apply for these hired troops? They would be reprenting a ,gov and wear uniforms etc.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 2:03:05 PM EDT
I would do it, mercs or not. they get paid big time money. I just wonder if they can carry the serious gear for combat. I would hate to think they would be sent on peace keeping with just a rifle. that could get ugly.just some light gear would do, mortors or armor vehicals V-150s would work(even those out dated) I would just have to see the gear and how they operate. just because you have a bunch of gun ho type together. does not mean it will work. too many chiefs not enought indians so to speak.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 2:15:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pinkmist:
I would do it, mercs or not. they get paid big time money. I just wonder if they can carry the serious gear for combat. I would hate to think they would be sent on peace keeping with just a rifle. that could get ugly.just some light gear would do, mortors or armor vehicals V-150s would work(even those out dated) I would just have to see the gear and how they operate. just because you have a bunch of gun ho type together. does not mean it will work. too many chiefs not enought indians so to speak.



I don't see why BW would not have those things.

Also, you get what you pay for, if the country doesn't want to pay for armor, then they don't get armor.

Though, I would think that BW would basicly sell it as a package and you don't realy get to pick and choose like that.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 2:20:20 PM EDT
Internet commandoes will sign up in droves.

They may put together a brigade-sized bunch of guys, but they will not have the capability of an army brigade.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 2:27:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FunYun1983:

Originally Posted By pinkmist:
I would do it, mercs or not. they get paid big time money. I just wonder if they can carry the serious gear for combat. I would hate to think they would be sent on peace keeping with just a rifle. that could get ugly.just some light gear would do, mortors or armor vehicals V-150s would work(even those out dated) I would just have to see the gear and how they operate. just because you have a bunch of gun ho type together. does not mean it will work. too many chiefs not enought indians so to speak.



I don't see why BW would not have those things.

Also, you get what you pay for, if the country doesn't want to pay for armor, then they don't get armor.

Though, I would think that BW would basicly sell it as a package and you don't realy get to pick and choose like that.



So where would they get, store, and practice with this equipment?

The govt. wouldn't let a private citizen own a mortar or the other items needed for a mercenary unit, so would they be allowed to have it on US soil?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 2:28:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:
Internet commandoes will sign up in droves.

They may put together a brigade-sized bunch of guys, but they will not have the capability of an army brigade.



Why do you think they will hire internet commandos? There is no reason, BTW, that they can't put together a group as skilled and well trained as a military battalion. It is doubtful that they would have the same organic airborne, artillery and logistics capabilities though.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 2:30:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dance:

Originally Posted By FunYun1983:

Originally Posted By pinkmist:
I would do it, mercs or not. they get paid big time money. I just wonder if they can carry the serious gear for combat. I would hate to think they would be sent on peace keeping with just a rifle. that could get ugly.just some light gear would do, mortors or armor vehicals V-150s would work(even those out dated) I would just have to see the gear and how they operate. just because you have a bunch of gun ho type together. does not mean it will work. too many chiefs not enought indians so to speak.



I don't see why BW would not have those things.

Also, you get what you pay for, if the country doesn't want to pay for armor, then they don't get armor.

Though, I would think that BW would basicly sell it as a package and you don't realy get to pick and choose like that.



So where would they get, store, and practice with this equipment?

The govt. wouldn't let a private citizen own a mortar or the other items needed for a mercenary unit, so would they be allowed to have it on US soil?



Easy solution. You base it somewhere else. They ought to buy some land in Russia, buy a few Russian politicians, and hire a bunch of elite snake eating types with lots of time in Chechnya and Afganistan.... then teach them to fight like Americans, with American combined arms doctrine.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 2:31:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Spade:

Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
This is a big departure from just doing security work.

Reminds me of Executive Outcomes.



They're creeping dangerously close to the "M" word and anybody working for Blackwater will have to deal with that.




I've yet to see what's so bad about the "m" word. It isn't the '60s.

EO did a better job at Peacekeeping than the UN with their connections to "real" militaries.

I'd want a brigade of Blackwater boys watching my back than Jordanians in blue berets.



Did a far better job and didn't have to rape and pillage like the UN does where ever it lands.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 2:32:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dance:

Originally Posted By FunYun1983:

Originally Posted By pinkmist:
I would do it, mercs or not. they get paid big time money. I just wonder if they can carry the serious gear for combat. I would hate to think they would be sent on peace keeping with just a rifle. that could get ugly.just some light gear would do, mortors or armor vehicals V-150s would work(even those out dated) I would just have to see the gear and how they operate. just because you have a bunch of gun ho type together. does not mean it will work. too many chiefs not enought indians so to speak.



I don't see why BW would not have those things.

Also, you get what you pay for, if the country doesn't want to pay for armor, then they don't get armor.

Though, I would think that BW would basicly sell it as a package and you don't realy get to pick and choose like that.



So where would they get, store, and practice with this equipment?

The govt. wouldn't let a private citizen own a mortar or the other items needed for a mercenary unit, so would they be allowed to have it on US soil?



Think again.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 2:37:05 PM EDT
Soldiers loyal only to a paycheck.
What if ATF/UN hired them to confiscate your guns?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 2:39:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By double_wielder:
Soldiers loyal only to a paycheck.
What if ATF/UN hired them to confiscate your guns?



You don't know that they would be loyal only to a paycheck. BW hires mostly ex military types, who still consider themselves American soldiers, just.....for a different organization.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 2:42:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By double_wielder:
Soldiers loyal only to a paycheck.
What if ATF/UN hired them to confiscate your guns?



You don't know that they would be loyal only to a paycheck. BW hires mostly ex military types, who still consider themselves American soldiers, just.....for a different organization.



Lets hope it stays that way.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 2:47:02 PM EDT
Im a pretty good Spec-Ops in Battlefield 2, do I qualify?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 3:01:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By double_wielder:
Soldiers loyal only to a paycheck.
What if ATF/UN hired them to confiscate your guns?



You don't know that they would be loyal only to a paycheck. BW hires mostly ex military types, who still consider themselves American soldiers, just.....for a different organization.



Uh no. They take no oath of loyalty to the US Constitution. They fight for the highest bidder. Mercs have a bad reputation for a reason.

They are all for themselves and will cut your delicate throat for enough credits. The above question about them taking your weapons and shooting your dog is a very valid point. Think about it.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:13:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By topknot:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By double_wielder:
Soldiers loyal only to a paycheck.
What if ATF/UN hired them to confiscate your guns?



You don't know that they would be loyal only to a paycheck. BW hires mostly ex military types, who still consider themselves American soldiers, just.....for a different organization.



Uh no. They take no oath of loyalty to the US Constitution. They fight for the highest bidder. Mercs have a bad reputation for a reason.

They are all for themselves and will cut your delicate throat for enough credits. The above question about them taking your weapons and shooting your dog is a very valid point. Think about it.



Ever met a contractor? I know a few. And they wouldn't like you.
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