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Posted: 3/29/2006 10:30:45 AM EDT
[#1]
SIMPLE ENOUGH FOR THE .GOV I don't think i like it though. how many acts in the last 10 years have been converted to felonies that were previously misdemeanors? A person has one felony and from then on, for life, he can't own/ posess a firearm? that is BS. might as well take away their right to vote for life as well. |
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Posted: 3/29/2006 10:33:59 AM EDT
[#2]
The key felony in question here appears to be aggravated assault on a cop. Not something would consider a minor offense in most worlds. |
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Posted: 3/29/2006 10:35:59 AM EDT
[#3]
Of course YOU'RE going to say that, copper. 
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Posted: 3/29/2006 10:50:35 AM EDT
[#4]
So? I can see that might have been actually worse than it was, if it was bargained down. Or it could have been something much less, and he was a moron and he had a public bargainer (i mean defender) "helping" him out. Do you know the story prior to the conviction? Regardless, my statements still stand- one felony, no matter how pickys%#@, and you don't get to own a gun for life. And only because someone thought they would cut off funds for the reinstatement of "rights" how much of a right is it if it can be taken away so easily, and never returned because of a legislative whim? Unlike the guys that want to vote as felons, there is no ACLU for gun owners. |
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Posted: 3/29/2006 10:53:02 AM EDT
[#5]
Yeah, I'm funny like that. Of course the other day iirc all the felon appologists were out speculating that the guy had some sort of traffic ticket and the feds just trumped everything up. I got no less than a dozen emails and IMs from good folks here wondering why how I knew the guys plight was his own fault before all the facts were in and why I took such a hard line on wait and see. The answer is simple, experience. Experience tells me that where there's smoke there is fire. It also tells me the feds in the current budget conditions, don't like waste on spurious expeditions. I figure about 99% of the time they get it right with the other 1% occuppied with dubious facts and pure collassal screw ups. |
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Posted: 3/29/2006 10:53:29 AM EDT
[#6]
How is it a bad precedent when a convicted felon is found guilty of firearms manufacturing, distribution and possession? And by DK's post this guys is manufacturing and distributing AR lowers. Only two were found but yet he has had many more in the past. They went somewhere. Simple math on that one. You guys need to pick a better battle than this one. |
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Posted: 3/29/2006 11:01:06 AM EDT
[#7]
Like the conversion of many crimes (non-felonies) into felonies in the last 10 or so years? Or how bout the fact there is NO method for "reinstating" the "right" to own a firearm once convicted? |
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Posted: 3/29/2006 11:02:55 AM EDT
[#8]
Last I looked, aggravated assault has always been a felony regardless of who the victim is. I'm not going to be writing my reps in regards to this dirtbag. |
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Posted: 3/29/2006 11:08:03 AM EDT
[#9]
In the other thread about this it failed to mention that he was a convicted felon. (At least of what i read) Sorry to say it but he knew better. He is going to jail for a few years. Good thing we didn't take collections for his defence we would be wasting our money.
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Posted: 3/29/2006 11:10:20 AM EDT
[#10]
You guys are hopeless.
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Posted: 3/29/2006 11:12:32 AM EDT
[#11]
+ 1,000,000 |
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Posted: 3/29/2006 11:22:00 AM EDT
[#12]
Who'? I think the vast majority here are saying, let the fool fry. I posted early in the other thread that I needed way more info before I would draw ant conclusions. A very basic search of this site by DKProf gave pretty convincing evidence against him. |
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Posted: 3/29/2006 11:24:08 AM EDT
[#13]
The ones who are hopeless happen to be the ones defending this guy, spinning the truth, making this into some type of assualt on LEGITMATE gun owners, etc.... |
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Posted: 3/29/2006 12:29:40 PM EDT
[#14]
You got on people about jumping to conclusions but then you went on to say he is guilty of being in possession, of manufacturing firearms, and of distributing firearms. When was the trial because I missed it. All we have right now are allegations from the ATF and part of their allegations are that a a milling machine, aluminum blocks, and blocks constitutes manufacturing for distribution. So based on those BS allegations it is an assault on legitmate gun owners. Now if they actually came out with evidence showing he was taking orders or showing he sold firearms that would be a totally different story. Since they haven't come out with that evidence and he hasn't had a trial you are jumping to the conclusion that he is guilty. I'll wait and see what actually comes out of this which is what everyone should do before they start jumping to conclusions. |
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Posted: 3/29/2006 12:47:45 PM EDT
[#15]
Sad case for him, sad for us other gun owners.
I fail to see how this is a prohibition on manufacturing for personal use however. SnS is screwed and there ain't shit that we can do about it IMO. So let's move on. This is a no winner. CYA guys, CYA. And if you get divorced or separated you had better really CYA. |
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Posted: 3/29/2006 1:05:38 PM EDT
[#16]
They are claiming he is a threat because he has some machining equipment in a basement.
 Not that he assaulted a cop. 
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Posted: 3/29/2006 1:08:16 PM EDT
[#17]
Uhhh..based on his OWN admissions here on ARF he has been manufacturing firearms. Based on his OWN admissions hereon ARF he has made 8 or more AR lower receivers. Of which only two were found during the search. So where did the other lowers go? Hmmm..sounds like distribution to me. Add to this a convicted VIOLENT FELON. What do really think? Ohhhhh, I know the ATF set him up. Yeah, that's it.  |
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Posted: 3/29/2006 1:15:48 PM EDT
[#18]
It is great that he could run for Mayor of DC, but can't own a firearm...how in the hell does that make sense?
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Posted: 3/29/2006 1:18:54 PM EDT
[#19]
Ok, I've read the article closely and i don't see anything about him being charged with manufacture for distribution. It states: "xxx is accused in a criminal complaint of being a convicted felon found by U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Agent Bernard Waggoner to be in possession of four weapons, including two Olivent crafted himself."
Where is any mention that the .gov is prosecuting him with manufacture for distribution? Looks to me like he's being prosecuted for felon in possession and the Asst US Atty says he's a danger to the community because he could make guns himself and he's a felon that shouldn't have them. |
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Posted: 3/29/2006 1:37:48 PM EDT
[#20]
First of all, it is his own damned fault, and he deserves what he gets. He knew damned well he was breaking the law.
Second of all, If I ever get arrested for something (prays I don't) I hope there is not a 40 pager in GD about it, and this one will probably make 2, 40 pagers. |
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Posted: 3/29/2006 4:48:36 PM EDT
[#21]
Based on his own admission or are you inferring all that from a picture that he posted? I have yet to see any reference to a thread where he said he was manufacturing firearms, the only reference I saw was someone said he posted a picture that showed multiple lowers. Do you know for certain all those lowers are his? Since you claim that they are by his own admission let's see the links to these admissions. You were the one getting on people for jumping to conclusion yet you are doing the same thing. I've never said the ATF set him up but I'm not saying the ATF doesn't have a case either. When the raid start started the ATF was pushing him and his girlfriend about the machineguns. They obviously didn't find anything related to those so they moved on to any other type of violation they could find. Right their the credibility of the ATF goes down the drain so I'm not going to jump to the conclusion like you have that that the guy is guilty and the trial is over just because the ATF is making an accusation. The guy is obviously a felon and obviously had firearms in his possession. As for the rest of the charges the ATF are claiming I'm not buying it until they prove it which so far they have not done. |
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Posted: 3/29/2006 5:02:07 PM EDT
[#22]
what we have here is the .gov throwing every charge they can at a convicted felon in possesion of firearms.
whether he is guilty of M&D or not he handed them all them info and ammunition the need to make such a case against him. for years all good gunowners have asked is for current laws to be enforced and when a bad guy is caught to drop the hammer. That is EXACTLY what has happened in this case. He knew the risks he was taking and risk he was putting on his family and freinds. A GOOD guy does not put his freinds at risk like this idiot. i could care less what he is charged with. I want to see what he is convicted on. |
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Posted: 3/29/2006 5:04:03 PM EDT
[#23]
It's bad you can't grasp reality. But you are right about one thing, nothing is proved yet in a court of law. But with information at hand, he's toast. And he's still a violent felon who was in posession of firearms. ETA: So what's all this? And this? Oh and this one. A DA fresh out of law school could make this case. Again you need a better case than this one to bash the ATF. |
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Posted: 3/29/2006 5:06:33 PM EDT
[#24]
Here's one thread in the archive: archive.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=254921 He post a range report from an 80% receiver that he finished - shows pictures of 4 more receivers he is working on (about 4 months ago), and intends ordering at least one more 80% receivers. He also includes pictures of 3 AK recievers, and mentiones expecting to finish one of them in a few days. He also pictures a 1911 and refers to his 10/22 in the thread. Here's another thread where he talks about his finished AR build, and also talks about being almost done with an AK: archive.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=38&t=213790
Maybe he never actually finished ANY of the other receivers, and doesn't really own the 10/22 that he claims to own - and perhaps that's why there were only TWO firearms mentioned - but by his own admission, he certainly was working on at least seven or eight other semi-auto rifles. I could be wrong, but I would imagine that IF they had found partly machined or almost finished receivers for AR's and AK's - that might have been mentioned as well. The fact that they didn't mention it could just mean that it wasn't worth mentioning, or it could mean that they didn't find them because he finished them and sold them or something. I agree completely that there is lots of information we don't have. But, if it is true that he IS a felon, then posting pictures of in-progress and completed AR and AK builds, along with his 1911 is a pretty serious self-indictment. 
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Posted: 3/29/2006 5:06:42 PM EDT
[#25]
Is there other data beside the article? I don't see any intent charge mentioned. The items apparently were mentioned as proof that he was a danger to the community which sounds like something to do with setting bail rather than the actual complaint. I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV (or the internet). |
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Posted: 3/29/2006 5:11:23 PM EDT
[#26]
Oh... so if someone has the equipment to bend AK flats, and they help someone bend flats that they don't own, they are manufacturing? Because if so, every AK build party is a manufacturing party. |
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Posted: 3/29/2006 5:13:18 PM EDT
[#27]
"Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned." (The complete quote is "Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned, nor hell a fury like a woman scorned." William Congreve) |
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Posted: 3/29/2006 5:19:27 PM EDT
[#28]
Well, I'm not totally up on that portion of the law. But it might help your case if your not a convicted felon X 3, doing a build party. But don't let your team membership go to waste. Search the archive. He sealed his own case. |
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Posted: 3/29/2006 5:21:39 PM EDT
[#29]
In the other thread, I came out and stated that I would not be defending the LEO's for once. Now that I learn he is a convicted felon (and has been convicted of assaulting an officer), I take that back. I now hope they screw this guy, hard. Although at the same time, I hope it doesn't somehow become a precedent for erronously charging law-abiding gun owners with intentions that don't exist. This guy is only huring home-builders by making them look like Tim McVeigh-type nutjob felons. Little/no sympathy from me. |
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Posted: 3/29/2006 5:32:55 PM EDT
[#30]
"Olivent was convicted in Blount County in 1997 of three felonies, one of which involved the aggravated assault of a law enforcement officer" And had a bitter ex but still kept firearms in the house.
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Posted: 3/29/2006 5:39:25 PM EDT
[#31]
I seem to remember that thread...... Yes, he was a felon, but that wasn't known at first, and when it did come out, it was unknown what they were, and so on.. (no need to rehash). But bras tacks: He is being charged as a FIP, and he should man up and do the time. But as a far as manufacturing, if he was making AND SELLING, then there might be a case, but if he was making for personal use, then I don't think it can be a maunfacturing charge, becaus it is legal to fbuild from flats or 80% recievers. Also, remember the case in the 9th circus, where they ruled in favor of the Convict making unregistered MG's for personal use? Came out about what, 2 years ago? Maybe a little less. About the same time as the Emerson case. |
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Posted: 3/29/2006 5:40:52 PM EDT
[#32]
I'm sorry, but was there news the SnS blew up a feeral building? I seemed to have missed that....... |
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Posted: 3/29/2006 5:41:23 PM EDT
[#33]
Thank God Bush is in office
 
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Posted: 3/29/2006 5:57:44 PM EDT
[#34]
The ATF will not start kicking door of every guy that has a drill press and Mill.
He was a Felon, he played with fire and got burnt. As per the ATF website as long as you are not a Feelon you can make your own Weapons. (A7) Does the GCA prohibit anyone from making a handgun, shotgun or rifle? [Back] With certain exceptions a firearm may be made by a nonlicensee provided it is not for sale and the maker is not prohibited from possessing firearms. However, a person is prohibited from making a semiautomatic assault weapon or assembling a nonsporting semiautomatic rifle or nonsporting shotgun from imported parts. In addition, the making of an NFA firearm requires a tax payment and approval by ATF. An application to make a machinegun will not be approved unless documentation is submitted showing that the firearm is being made for a federal or state agency. [18 U. S. C. 922( o), (r), (v), and 923, 27 |
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Posted: 3/29/2006 6:02:18 PM EDT
[#35]
Sounds like good work by the ATF. This is exactly what they should spend their time doing, going after felons with guns.
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Posted: 3/29/2006 6:05:17 PM EDT
[#36]
It's not legal if you are a convicted felon. You can't do it. Period. |
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Posted: 3/29/2006 6:14:09 PM EDT
[#37]
Reading is fundamental
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Posted: 3/29/2006 6:16:23 PM EDT
[#38]
But there are some here who would claim any anti-2A enforcement is always wrong, despite the facts of the case. Remember, ATF is always evil, always wrong, always stomping the rights of the individual, always always always
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Posted: 3/29/2006 6:29:33 PM EDT
[#39]
I'm agreeing with Shotar (and that doesn't happen often) and BamaShooter here. This guy just plain fucked up. Of course, that was my opinion in the first thread. He's a convicted felon, and he has guns. Check. Mate.
Do not pass "GO" Do not collect $200. I hope they throw the book at this dumbass. Oh,. and it's till the wife's fault, right?
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Posted: 3/29/2006 6:31:27 PM EDT
[#40]
Actually the rights to bear arms and vote can be restored through a full pardon.
So there is a recourse, however not too many Presidents or Governors are gonna stick their name to a case like that. It happens but rarely. No sympathy here, I am anti-criminal by profession and personal beliefs. You violate our laws you should not enjoy the benefits of our society. |
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Posted: 3/29/2006 6:37:34 PM EDT
[#41]
Link for members with Archive Server access. Looks like he was a busy bee, WAY after his felony conviction.
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Posted: 3/29/2006 6:39:11 PM EDT
[#42]
You can't use "ATF" and "reasoning" in the same sentence. You can however, use "ATF" and "cook" in the same sentence, though they prefer to flame broil. |
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Posted: 3/29/2006 6:41:36 PM EDT
[#43]
This is one of the glaring points that was missed in the other thread. ATF ninja's DIDN'T crash through all of this shitbag's windows, DIDN'T pistol whip him, or kill his dog or whatever the usual accusations are. Instead, it sounds from the account like they acted like a professional law enforcement agency. Not one person mentioned that in 40 pages. Would it not make sense to be more engaging towards the ATF? Transparency on both sides would allow everyone to relax a bit. Flame away, armchair freedom fighters. |
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Posted: 3/29/2006 6:44:14 PM EDT
[#44]
Fixed it for you. |
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Posted: 3/29/2006 6:53:38 PM EDT
[#45]
I'm personally in favor of allowing non-violent felons to regain their firearm rights when their sentences are completed. Maybe even minor violent offenses like fighting or DV.
However, that is not the law in present-day society. "ShootnScoot" was a felon. He chose to make receivers or almost-receivers. He apparently had guns too. The ATF, in this case, has a decent case. Why was this guy making "almost receivers"? He couldn't own the finished product. Was he just making them for fun? C'mon here! ATF has a history of BS charges, but I don't think this is one of them. SnS's first mistake was getting married. His second was making gun stuff as a felon. His third was telling his wife what he was doing and lastly, pissing her off was the final straw. He might have been a decent guy, but he shouldn't have been fooling around with guns. He'll have a chance to tell it to a judge and maybe even a jury too. John |
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Posted: 3/29/2006 6:59:04 PM EDT
[#46]
Appears his felony convictions were way, way back in 1997.
So long ago, maybe he forgot he was a felon. Maybe he has Alzheimer's Disease. hock.gif |
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Posted: 3/29/2006 7:08:55 PM EDT
[#47]
Why are you guys surprised?
People do not become criminals and felons because they are smart and law abiding. They become felons because they are dumb and stupid. If he was into any firearms at all he would have known it was illegal for him possess let alone manufacture any weapons. Then he posts it one the internet. 1 or 2 he would have a case he was building them for himself. He has over 8 receivers and has a build party. And wet behind the ears DA or even a retarded one is going to have a field day with this guy. |
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Posted: 3/29/2006 7:14:21 PM EDT
[#48]
i wonder if he got in to building because he was a felon?
not sorry for him at all and i hope none of his guns ended up in other criminals hands. |
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Posted: 3/29/2006 7:22:09 PM EDT
[#49]
As I said in the other thread. If someone is so concerned about having guns off paper that they will lie cheat and deceive people who think that they are friends in order to get them that way, it is a pretty good indicator that they know damned well they can't get them in the conventional manner. Like I also mentioned earlier. It might be wise for those who bought his lowers that seem unaccounted for, to contact the ATFE and turn them in potentially as contraband or at least contact them, through your attorney in this regard. No, they can't arrest you for voluntarily turning in potentially contraband items. Better for you to seek them out, than for them to seek you out. |
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Posted: 3/29/2006 7:33:36 PM EDT
[#50]
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