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Posted: 3/28/2006 3:49:28 PM EDT
Mexico is an oil exporting country.

It has fertile farm lands and is rich in natural resources.

It has not one but two beautiful coasts to attract tourism.

Since Nafta, Mexico has a net trade surplus with the United States, before Nafta the United States had a surplus of exports to Mexico. The net value of both countries trade has increased since Nafta.

Factories that produced goods in the United States are now producing these same goods in Mexico. My Dodge one ton dually pickup was made in Mexico.

Mexico does not have to provide for a military capable of defending itself and freedom around the world. Mexico has not had to fund expensive wars against fascists and communists around the globe. Mexico does not send aircraft carrier fleets around the globe to feed starving people after regional and continental scale disasters. Mexico has not funded the rebuilding of not one but two former imperial states and the states of their victims. Mexico has not sent its citizens into space. Mexico has not sent its robots to explore the solar system.

Mexico ought to be rich but is instead poor. I demand to know why. Where is the wealth?

If you go to the border between El Paso and Juarez, you will see a prosperous city in the United States and miles of slums in Mexico. These two cities are seperated by a river only a few hundred yards across. The climate, the land, natural resources, geography, and even the people are pretty much the same on both sides of the river. The only major difference is one country has the constitution of the Untited States and one doesn't.

Is this the difference?

Is the fact that the Constitution recognizes the inalienable rights of man the key difference that makes America a success and Mexico a pauper and burden.

If so, the Constitution is a well published document; couldn't Mexico just translate the American Constitution into Spanish and copy it? Or is the document just worthless paper without its being upheld and celebrated as a critical pillar of life and liberty?

Mexico, that ought to be rich, is so poor that its citizens are willing to cross hostile deserts and even die to get to the United States. I hear Mexico's citizens say that they want justice. I hear El Presidente de Mexico, Vicinte Fox demanding that America must be just. How is Mexico just? If Mexico is just, then why must its citizens starve, why must its citizens leave in order to eat?
Why isn't Mexico being held accountable for its lack of justice to its own citizens? Why hasn't anyone from either Mexico or Armerica even thought to ask this question? Are citizens of both Mexico and America racists in not believing that Mexico should provide its own justice and its own wealth from its own land?

I'll tell you the problem. The problem is that Mexico is unjust. It is unjust to its own citizens and it is unjust to its neighbors both to it's north and to it's south. The problem is that it's citizens are the cause of their own injustice when they seek justice outside of their country even when they cannot provide justice to themselves. The problem is that you cannot have justice because you demand justice.

In order to have justice, you must seek Liberty!

You cannot flee to justice, you cannot steal justice, you cannot buy justice, you cannot own justice, you cannot trade in justice, you cannot earn justice. You will only have justice when you seek Liberty and you cannot have liberty when you do not fight for it. Every day the liberty in America fades, every demand for justice by those not willing to seek freedom or those not willing to understand liberty or those not willing to uphold liberty is a strike against liberty.

Those who seek only justice kill liberty.

I do not see responsible citizens of Mexico cheering for liberty or freedom, I only hear demands for justice. If it is justice you seek, then seek it from yourselves, seek it from your neighbors, seek it from the church and seek it from God. But do not demand justice. The justice that you demand cannot be provided by America. You must provide it on your own. Start by demanding liberty in Mexico. When you have liberty in Mexico you will provide your own justice.

The moment you turn your back on liberty, justice will die and part or all of you with it.



Link Posted: 3/28/2006 3:53:40 PM EDT
You have to want it, earn it, work for it and defend it.
They don't.
Vicente Fox's way is to get as many of his needy out to America and have them send money home to their families.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 3:55:30 PM EDT
Cause it's full of Mexicans wanting to leave!
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 3:55:49 PM EDT
Because they were neutral during WW2, and on the sly as much as they could supported the Nazi's.

Thats what they were and I believe still are today.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 3:56:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 3:58:00 PM EDT by cluster]
coruption so deep its beyond a gringos comperhension . <washington aint got shit on mexico as far as that dept goes>

racism is alive and well in mexico.. indians are the negros..

machismo

its become fully actepted that it will not change and leaving is the offical fix.


thats my answer.

Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:02:08 PM EDT
Oh Mexico.
So far from God, yet so close to the United States.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:04:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cluster:
coruption so deep its beyond a gringos comperhension . <washington aint got shit on mexico as far as that dept goes>

racism is alive and well in mexico.. indians are the negros..

machismo

its become fully actepted that it will not change and leaving is the offical fix.


thats my answer.




Yup.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:07:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 4:08:16 PM EDT by fossil_fuel]
i agree with everything that has been said so far, but i'm going to add a couple more. im gonna get flamed for this but i'll call em as i see em:

NAFTA/trade liberalization. while americans lose manufacturing jobs, latin america has lost many agricultural jobs because they can't compete with high-tech, government-subsidized US farming.

a HUGE organized crime element which has corrupted all levels of government. due to america's strict drug control laws but loose border control, this has created a huge opportunity for gangs to produce or import illegal drugs in mexico and smuggle them into the US through the porous border, and become massively powerful (and violent) in the process.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:08:56 PM EDT
Is this a trick question to set me up for getting my account locked?

Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:11:23 PM EDT
The only difference is the values of the respective cultures. It isn't even necessary to figure out which values are better here than there - the overall situation in Mexico is enough of an indicator of inferiority.

That says nothing about individual Mexicans or genetics. There are also probably some parts of Mexico that are nicer to live in due to microculture and values than say, Detroit, which is also deficient in positive values.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:17:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:20:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:

Originally Posted By IceHandLuke:
Is this a trick question to set me up for getting my account locked?




+ uno



Same here
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:22:07 PM EDT
Because it's easier to mooch off a wealthy neighbor.......and bleed the neighbor dry.......then it is to work to improve your own situation.

Why try?........just take from the people next to you!
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:26:32 PM EDT
One day a man was walking on a pier when he saw a boy fishing for crabs. Stopping for a while, he was amazed as the boy caught crab after crab, dropping each one of them into a bucket that was overflowing. Unable to control his curiousity, the man asked the boy if he was worried that the crabs might start crawling out of the bucket. The boy looked at his quizically and replied, "No, Sir! These are Mexican Crabs. As soon as one tries to get out the others drag him back into the bucket."
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:30:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 4:31:39 PM EDT by home_with_kids]
I'll risk getting banned.

Its because they are not part of the anglosphere. Britain ruled North America (sans Mexico), and begat the USA, and as an afterthought, Canada.

Britain ruled India, and begat, well, India. India has slowy grown into the country it is now because of the British influence, and the influence of the rule of law and justice that was the legacy of British rule. Don't get me wrong, British rule over India was not all wine and roses, and the Brits can be as arrogant and stubborn as us Americans. The Brits may also may have overstayed their welcome there. But I doubt you will find anyone who seriously believes that India would today be a better place if the British had never imposed colonial rule for the time they did.

Mexico inheirited its traditions from Spain, by then a tired used up country. The Spanish were only interested in setting up plantations and an economy suited to keeping the rich in power, and the serfs as drawers of water and bearers of wood (as turtledove would put it).

Look at countries around the world. Generally speaking, the ones that are improving their lot are the ones where either Brits or Yanks had an influence, and instilled capitalism and the belief that anyone could make it if they worked hard enough (either within the system, or at least at its edges).

The Phillipines provides an interesting dice roll. There was a long Spanish influence, and then a good dose of American influence. Hard to say which side will win out.

I am not knocking those of Spanish heritage, but you can't ignore the fall Spain took in the last 300 or so years. And only the future will tell how America, Britain, and the anglosphere respond to the siren song of government control over every aspect of life, and the corruption and downfall that results therein.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:32:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By IceHandLuke:
Is this a trick question to set me up for getting my account locked?




+100000000000000
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:36:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cluster:
coruption so deep its beyond a gringos comperhension . <washington aint got shit on mexico as far as that dept goes>

racism is alive and well in mexico.. indians are the negros..

machismo

its become fully actepted that it will not change and leaving is the offical fix.


thats my answer.




Man! youa re so right. I worked in Mexico City for two years and its all you said. Resumes were submitted with pictures. Those with Indian looks were descriminated on.

One of the bosses who read all the major US paper said to me on reading about a politician. When it come to coruption, you Americans are amatures.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:43:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By slaughter:
Because they were neutral during WW2, and on the sly as much as they could supported the Nazi's.

Thats what they were and I believe still are today.



That's an interesting conjecture, I suppose you forgot to include the Mexicna Fighter squadrons that fought in the Pacific (on our side) accidentally?

In any case, a basic problem is the culture encourages raisng lots of children and discourages social or fiscal advancement. Plus the revolutionary history and semi- to full socialistic governments with hints of emergent communistic tendencies lurking in the shallows has made it very discouraging for the "haves" to invest in heavy capital businesses when the next revolution or government may confiscate it, and in certain situations, shoot the land or factory owners. That and as a colony, and later, the oppressors (so to speak)have encouraged Mexico to buy goods from Spain, England, France, the United States, etc rather than develop their resources and people to make it themselves. That;s changing but not that fast.

Hence lots of people with pretty good work ethics, family pride and big families to support and no jobs.

Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:51:08 PM EDT
property rights.


simple concept, but not one the powers that be are interested in.

TXL
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:54:24 PM EDT
Is there a 1st/2nd+ rate country anywhere in the world that isnt of European or Asian lineage? Not that there couldnt be if they worked hard enough, just wondering if there is today. I cant think of any offhand.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:54:32 PM EDT
I toured Mexico. If I stated why, I would be banned. Go there and you will see. Third wold s___hole. Acapulco is now experiencing drug wars. Mexico City is one big slum. On and On.

Mexico is controlled by the Spanish that conquered Mexico. Guys like Fox. The rest of the country is a bunch of indians. Look at the ones here. They are indian and that's one reason Fox and the Spanish want them gone-racists. Look at our indians and see the same
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:57:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PaDanby:

Originally Posted By slaughter:
Because they were neutral during WW2, and on the sly as much as they could supported the Nazi's.

Thats what they were and I believe still are today.



That's an interesting conjecture, I suppose you forgot to include the Mexicna Fighter squadrons that fought in the Pacific (on our side) accidentally?

In any case, a basic problem is the culture encourages raisng lots of children and discourages social or fiscal advancement. Plus the revolutionary history and semi- to full socialistic governments with hints of emergent communistic tendencies lurking in the shallows has made it very discouraging for the "haves" to invest in heavy capital businesses when the next revolution or government may confiscate it, and in certain situations, shoot the land or factory owners. That and as a colony, and later, the oppressors (so to speak)have encouraged Mexico to buy goods from Spain, England, France, the United States, etc rather than develop their resources and people to make it themselves. That;s changing but not that fast.

Hence lots of people with pretty good work ethics, family pride and big families to support and no jobs.




Yea, what he said. ^^^^
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:59:53 PM EDT
Great post.

If any country in the world is in need of democracy it is Mexico. Have you seen HOW RICH, rich Mexicans are? They are like oil sheik rich. They have all their babies in the US too. If the shit ever hits the fan in Mex they will just move here when their theiving days have run out.

I'd loved to see a little guillotine action in Zocalo Square for those sacks of shit.

Along the same lines, why do the poor of Mexico stop the North bound trek at the Canadian Border? No love for Frenchies?


Link Posted: 3/28/2006 5:12:49 PM EDT
Too much corruption, too little oversight of their money, not enough technology, not enough infrastructure (see curruption).
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 5:14:51 PM EDT
"Why can't Mexico become a first world country instead of a third world country?"

The answer, according to my neighbor who was born and raised in Mexico: the Mexican people.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 5:18:42 PM EDT
They have some very strange laws when it comes to forigen ownership of property. Especially when you get close to the border or close to the beach.

A buddy of mine is a legal resident alien from Mexico. He has property in Mexico that is close to the border, it is his family home. And if he takes US citizenship he says he could lose the property.

I know when I was in Costa Maya there was a lot of nice land that could be developed and provide a shit ton of jobs for those folks down there, but a forigener could not own it and I would not want to get involved with mexican "businessmen".

Plus there is no title insurance when you buy land down there. You could buy contested land and be fucked.

This is only a small part of why Mexico is a swarming shit hole.

Link Posted: 3/28/2006 5:21:08 PM EDT
Corruption.....plain and simple
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 5:22:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cluster:
coruption so deep its beyond a gringos comperhension . <washington aint got shit on mexico as far as that dept goes>

racism is alive and well in mexico.. indians are the negros..

machismo

its become fully actepted that it will not change and leaving is the offical fix.


thats my answer.




Indeed. It seems most people here are just a tad bit too young to realize that Mexico was on the "pink" list only a few decades ago, on the verge of becoming a communist nation.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 5:27:14 PM EDT
For the same reasons the American Indians had yet to invent the wheel when the Spanish arrived...

Darwin is a good place to start your inquiry.

Start with his book called: On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or The Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life

You don't see it listed with its full title all that often. I think it hurts some people's feelings.

Here are some other thoughts from Charles:

If the country were open on its borders, new forms would certainly immigrate, and this would also seriously disturb the relations of some of the former inhabitants. Let it be remembered how powerful the influence of a single introduced tree or mammal has been shown to be.

He who believes in the struggle for existence and in the principle of natural selection, will acknowledge that every organic being is constantly endeavouring to increase in numbers; and thus if any one being vary ever so little, either in habits or structure, and thus gain an advantage over some other inhabitant of the country, it will seize on the place of that inhabitant, however different it may be from its own place.

Of course if you are a Christian, then all this is just so much human fumbling in the dark.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 5:28:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cyclone:
Corruption.....plain and simple



Why are they so corrupt?
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 5:30:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 5:35:41 PM EDT by PAEBR332]

Originally Posted By TxLewis:
property rights.


simple concept, but not one the powers that be are interested in.

TXL



This is the reason virtually all third world nations are what they are.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 5:34:41 PM EDT
I bet if we actly enforced our immigration laws mexico would have a revolution in a month.

Like previus posters have said Corruption is so rampant in Mexico no one bats a eye.
The goverment of Mexico encorges the illegals to come to the US becouse its a release valve for there problems. think about they can get rid of there poor and in turn those people send money back to there familys increasing funds to their goverment hence why Mexico gets so up in arms whenever someone starts working to actly do something about the mess our border is.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 5:39:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zarathustra1:

Originally Posted By cyclone:
Corruption.....plain and simple



Why are they so corrupt?


decades of it being seen as the accepted norm.

Link Posted: 3/28/2006 5:40:18 PM EDT
Massive inbred corruption on virtually all levels of society and goverment
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 5:42:42 PM EDT
Its spiritual. The US was founded by people seeking to worship God in freedom. Mexico was founded by people seeking gold - greed (Cortez,etc). Greed and corruption still permeates all levels of Mexican government.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 5:43:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cyrax777:

Originally Posted By Zarathustra1:

Originally Posted By cyclone:
Corruption.....plain and simple



Why are they so corrupt?


decades centuries of it being seen as the accepted norm.


Link Posted: 3/28/2006 5:44:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cyrax777:

Originally Posted By Zarathustra1:

Originally Posted By cyclone:
Corruption.....plain and simple



Why are they so corrupt?


decades of it being seen as the accepted norm.




Why were there decades of it being seen as the accepted norm?

Why did it become the norm there? Was it just random chance?

I didn't turn out that way here. What factors were different?
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 5:45:09 PM EDT
Yep, and the most elementary example is something called La Mordita, or "The Bite"........you dont simply pay a traffic fine, you negotiate a price to keep your ass out of jail............a friend of mine and her husband went to Mexico and he was stopped for making a turn, and his "bite" was 500 dollars cash, paid to the officer on the spot, or rot in a Mexican jail..........they make the fine up on their own, and not based on a scale............cant pay? tough shit...........go to jail and get out when someone raises the money. And by then it has probably doubled what you were originally told


Originally Posted By cyrax777:

Originally Posted By Zarathustra1:

Originally Posted By cyclone:
Corruption.....plain and simple



Why are they so corrupt?


decades of it being seen as the accepted norm.


Link Posted: 3/28/2006 5:46:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zarathustra1:

Originally Posted By cyrax777:

Originally Posted By Zarathustra1:

Originally Posted By cyclone:
Corruption.....plain and simple



Why are they so corrupt?


decades of it being seen as the accepted norm.




Why were there decades of it being seen as the accepted norm?

Why did it become the norm there? Was it just random chance?

I didn't turn out that way here. What factors were different?



Cortez, Pizarro, and the other explorers infected the region with a love of gold. Before they arrived, it was largely a civilized, agrarian society.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 5:49:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 5:50:56 PM EDT by Zarathustra1]

Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:

Originally Posted By Zarathustra1:

Originally Posted By cyrax777:

Originally Posted By Zarathustra1:

Originally Posted By cyclone:
Corruption.....plain and simple



Why are they so corrupt?


decades of it being seen as the accepted norm.




Why were there decades of it being seen as the accepted norm?

Why did it become the norm there? Was it just random chance?

I didn't turn out that way here. What factors were different?



Cortez, Pizarro, and the other explorers infected the region with a love of gold. Before they arrived, it was largely a civilized, agrarian society.



Ahh, there it is. It actually is the White man's fault.

Those poor Indians... It was like Eden before the White man arrived? They came bearing apples?
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 5:49:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 5:52:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
Rampant corruption, machismo that gets in the way of rational thought, and a deeply rooted social laziness that has to be seen to be believed.


Regarding that last comment....seriously, is there another culture anywhere in the world where
the businesses would tolerate its workers taking a long nap in the afternoon?

The siesta is, to me, proof of a profound laziness that's deeply rooted in their culture.

The only good thing I can think of to say about it is that it seems to apply only in Mexico. I've
never seen a Mexican immigrant, legal or otherwise, taking a nap on the job here in America.


CJ



So why are they like that? You are describing the symptoms, but what is the cause?
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 5:55:06 PM EDT
i dont care why they are like that they are. not to mention there bringing it to america.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 5:55:55 PM EDT
My mom says there's a lot of Mexicans in Mexico.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 5:56:38 PM EDT
my mom says theres alot in california.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 6:02:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 6:05:29 PM EDT by eddiein1984]
Massive corruption. No tradition of engineering and research in the physical sciences. A relatively uneducated population. Too many hours of UNIVISION variety shows. A good portion of the motivated, capable workforce heads north each year.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 6:04:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By eddiein1984:
Massive corruption. No tradition of engineering and research in the physical sciences. A relatively uneducated population. Too many hours of UNIVISION variety shows.



I will be fine if I never hear SABADO GIGANTE!!! ever again.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 6:06:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 6:08:10 PM EDT by Zarathustra1]

Originally Posted By eddiein1984:
Massive corruption. No tradition of engineering and research in the physical sciences. A relatively uneducated population. Too many hours of UNIVISION variety shows.



OK. Why?

Boarders are arbitrary creations. Why is the complete opposite state of affairs true north of Mexico?

Link Posted: 3/28/2006 6:08:06 PM EDT
is that all you do is ask why? why dont you tell us.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 6:10:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:
Cortez, Pizarro, and the other explorers infected the region with a love of gold. Before they arrived, it was largely a civilized, agrarian society.



Hahahahaha. Yeah, the Aztecs were real civilized. Bunch of peace loving noble brown men, who happened to revel in mass human sacrafice rituals, but hey, we all have our weird little cultural traditions, don't we?

Once corruption takes root in a society, it's almost impossible to shake off. Why? Because anyone who "plays by the rules" is a sucker, and destined to be at the back of the line. Almost without exception, culturals that are free of corruption tend to be very successful economically and socially. As corruption increases, the fortunes of those societies decline in equal measure.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 6:11:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zarathustra1:

Originally Posted By eddiein1984:
Massive corruption. No tradition of engineering and research in the physical sciences. A relatively uneducated population. Too many hours of UNIVISION variety shows.



OK. Why?

Boarders are arbitrary creations. Why is the complete opposite state of affairs true north of Mexico?




Mexico has never had the rule of law, and rights in property. Both are creations of the state. While the border may be arbitrary, the legal systems in our nation and Mexico are vastly different.
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