Quoted: Most of the money that illegals earn here gets sent back to Mexico for their families back there. They are a net suck on the US economy. The money they send home is the second or third largest source of foreign income in Mexico. They don't get paid enough or work for long enough to get health care benefits, so the families they have/start here get paid for by whom? Bueller? Bueller? That's right: you and I. Taxpayers. What happens when you amnestize them and make them legal? Will they suddenly make enough to afford Blue Cross or Cigna health insurance? No, but they'll qualify for every form of welfare there is, and have absolutely no incentive not to use it.

Your use of this perfectly cromulent word embiggens us all.

Call your politicians.

WHY?!?!?!?

Those MORONS are the ones got us INTO this trouble with illegals!!!

Refusing to protect our National Borders is TREASON of the first order!!!

Why? Dubai.

The press (except Lou Dobbs and a few others) aren't on this yet but they too can be moved.

Quoted: Most of the money that illegals earn here gets sent back to Mexico for their families back there. They are a net suck on the US economy. The money they send home is the second or third largest source of foreign income in Mexico. They don't get paid enough or work for long enough to get health care benefits, so the families they have/start here get paid for by whom? Bueller? Bueller? That's right: you and I. Taxpayers. What happens when you amnestize them and make them legal? Will they suddenly make enough to afford Blue Cross or Cigna health insurance? No, but they'll qualify for every form of welfare there is, and have absolutely no incentive not to use it.

Roger that.  The actual amount that goes South is 20 billion and is Mexico's largest cash cow.  After that is oil income.

Quoted: Call your politicians. WHY?!?!?!? Those MORONS are the ones got us INTO this trouble with illegals!!! Refusing to protect our National Borders is TREASON of the first order!!!

Becuase as long as you are doing one useless thing, posting on an internet board to bitch, you may as well do another 'useless' thing and contact the people you elect.  Or do you think fiery responces here are going to solve the issue?

Quoted: Quoted: Are they all just going to come here and go on public assistance? Get real... I'm in Michigan and a few years ago I had to have my porch replaced. I hired a contractor that had a very nice crew of Hispanic laborers (I didn't check for their green cards, sorry) fix the porch that the born-here, domestic white guy POS I originally hired to do the job had utterly screwed up... Hard working guys. They didn't come here and drop out. While I hope they were here legally, if they were illegal, I hope these guys get their amnesty. They were the essence of what America stands for. Well Sir, I was in LA and San Diego at the border itself, and in the overwhelmed hospitals and at the multi-car DUI pileups, and in South LA on "Mother's Day" (the first of every month) when they collect AFDC. And in the courtrooms where they get no time for their crimes because the jails are full. Where car insurance is rare as hen's teeth and hit and run is the only way to go. Every square inch of every wall is covered in graffiti. Where the University of California has abandoned the "racist" SAT because scores keep dropping. Where hospitals are closing. Where gated communities are the rule if you have money. I could continue. You need an unguided tour of urban Los Angeles. Spend some time at LA County Hospital and just outside LA Central Jail. You probably won't make it back, but then again Pollyannas with their head in the sand are as real a menace as many of them.

So your problem is the concentration of illegals becuase you live right on the border. Noted.

Thanks for the insult as well.

It should pretty funny when we add 12 million relatively poor citizens to our voting rolls to tip the balance WAY in favor of socialism. And you thought that America had income redistribution and socialism before!
I'm looking on the bright side. At least they weren't European immigrants. Europeans would have brought socialism,more atheism AND a bad work ethic. Most Mexican immigrants I know at least have a good work ethic and a similar religious background to my own. Now all I have to do is learn Spanish.....
Viva La Raza!

This is complete and utter BULLSHIT!!

I am sorry, but legalizing these criminal immigrants is unacceptable.


Just because we didn't catch heir asses at the border, it is somehow OK?

Fuck THAT!!!!!!!!!

The next two, three generations will have their hands full.

But then again, today's minorities will be tomorrows majority.

see below.

As if ammoman wasn't already swamped.....

I, for one, welcome our new lowriding overlords  

The senate go go fuck themselves.

I don't think amnesty is going to get through the house.

It's not the "GOP":

Only 4 of the 10 Republicans on the committee supported the bill. They were the committee chairman, Senator Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania, and Senators Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, Mike DeWine of Ohio and Sam Brownback of Kansas. All eight Democrats on the committee voted in favor of the legislation.

Quoted: For those of you who are totally against this... What would you have ANY President do at this point? Round them up? Kick the doors down and go get everyone? Do you REALLY want the .gov to acquire the kind of ability and logistics it would take to nab 12 million people who don't want to be caught? (think slippery slope, folks) FWIW I agree we should close up the porous borders. But what are we to do now. The genie is out of the bottle. I am genuinely curious here. I don't want illegals here either but are the consequences worth the costs...? Honest discussion, do not flame me.

I propose we do the SAME THING the ATF does will gun people.

Seems they have more than enough manpower to find and harrass folks for minor firearms infractions.

I don't think we need to get ALL of the 12 million, but most of them would be nice. They are criminals, and this country should treat them as such.

Quoted: Quoted: For those of you who are totally against this... What would you have ANY President do at this point? Round them up? Kick the doors down and go get everyone? Do you REALLY want the .gov to acquire the kind of ability and logistics it would take to nab 12 million people who don't want to be caught? (think slippery slope, folks) FWIW I agree we should close up the porous borders. But what are we to do now. The genie is out of the bottle. I am genuinely curious here. I don't want illegals here either but are the consequences worth the costs...? Honest discussion, do not flame me. I propose we do the SAME THING the ATF does will gun people. Seems they have more than enough manpower to find and harrass folks for minor firearms infractions. I don't think we need to get ALL of the 12 million, but most of them would be nice. They are criminals, and this country should treat them as such.

That would work for me...

FYI to the other guys, I just wanted to get you thinking. Some of you are so angry about this illegal immigration thing (yes, I don't like it either, OK?) that I think you're not seeing the forest for the trees: You're advocating rounding all 12 or whatever million of these illegals and sending them home. What happens when they're done and the infrastructure you had to build to accomplish this suddenly has to justify its existence?

Remember, gun owners are just a newsworthy incident, a Democrat majority and a penstroke away from being the next "round 'em up" group.

Quoted: That's it, I'm fucking buying more ammo and magazines. Fuck the car payments.

Thanks man.  I hadn't laughed yet today...

www.grassfire.org/42/petition.asp?PID=8438370


Petition to Secure Our Borders

About the Petition:
Illegal immigration is one of the most serious threats facing our nation’s security. To this end, our nation MUST make this a NUMBER ONE priority, and aggressively address this problem at its source to truly stop the flow of illegal immigrants flooding into our nation.

Grassfire has launched this national petition to raise 275,000 citizens calling for our elected leadership to Secure Our Borders. Furthermore, we have outlined a six-point plan of action that among other things, would secure our borders, and protect the jobs and lifestyles of the “legal” residents living in our nation.

critical mass: (1) The amount of a fissile substance that will allow a self-sustaining chain reaction. The amount depends both on the properties of the fissile element and on the shape of the mass. (2) The number of honey hole hunchers necessary to sustain and increase a population. WE BE THERE......


ETA:

Quoted: It's not the "GOP": Only 4 of the 10 Republicans on the committee supported the bill. They were the committee chairman, Senator Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania, and Senators Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, Mike DeWine of Ohio and Sam Brownback of Kansas. All eight Democrats on the committee voted in favor of the legislation.

Thanks, guy. I was wondering how my Senator (Sessions) voted. Condolences on that eftard of yours.

Quoted: For those of you who are totally against this... What would you have ANY President do at this point? Round them up? Kick the doors down and go get everyone? Do you REALLY want the .gov to acquire the kind of ability and logistics it would take to nab 12 million people who don't want to be caught? (think slippery slope, folks) FWIW I agree we should close up the porous borders. But what are we to do now. The genie is out of the bottle. I am genuinely curious here. I don't want illegals here either but are the consequences worth the costs...? Honest discussion, do not flame me.

Macman

That is the same excuse they used for the AMNESTY they passed in the mid-80s.  They said that would be it and they would "fix the problem".  Gee guess what, they didn't.

So we have the amnesty of the mid-80's, the amnesty of 2006, expect one around 2020 and another one around 2030.  

When the fuck is it going to stop!!!!

I'm not saying we kick in doors to find them but when they are found via other means, i.e., traffic stops,  applying for welfare, etc, kick them the fuck out!  

We should reward their bad behavior by doing an amnesty every 15 years?

Quoted: critical mass: (1) The amount of a fissile substance that will allow a self-sustaining chain reaction. The amount depends both on the properties of the fissile element and on the shape of the mass. (2) The number of honey hole hunchers necessary to sustain and increase a population. WE BE THERE...... ETA: Quoted: It's not the "GOP": Only 4 of the 10 Republicans on the committee supported the bill. They were the committee chairman, Senator Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania, and Senators Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, Mike DeWine of Ohio and Sam Brownback of Kansas. All eight Democrats on the committee voted in favor of the legislation. Thanks, guy. I was wondering how my Senator (Sessions) voted. Condolences on that eftard of yours.

Graham is about to get an earfull from me and the 300+ members of College Republicans here

Quoted: That's it, I'm fucking buying more ammo and magazines. Fuck the car payments.

and the pupose of that would be?????????????????

I would not be surprised if the GOP suddenly decided to go all-out Berlin wall on the border. There is huge opposition to amnesty among ordinary voters. All this talk about big business favoring amnesty is nonsense, because if the illegals became legal, their employers would have to start paying a lot more in minimum wage and mandatory benefits. If the Republicans can tack away from the Democrats, they could leave them as the party supporting amnesty, and also distance themselves from the pro-amnesty President, who is pretty unpopular right now.

Illegal aliens come here for free welfare, healthcare, drivers licenses, and because any child born here is an automatic citizen.  Stop giving this stuff out for free (pure socialism), and the "demand" will drop bigtime. As usual .gov and the press has everyone looking in every direction except for where the problem actually lies.  If you want to truly make a change you have to address the "demand" issues.

This has not happened and will not because the globialists that control the Whitehouse and both Houses of Congress want to see a united North America eventually free of borders ala the European Union.  Why do you think nothing has been done up til now? Only token "fixes." One more step toward world government...


Reccomended reading: None Dare Call it Treason... Twenty-Five Years Later  by John Stormer

So, if 4/10/2006 is the day every Mehican doesn't show up for work or buy crap at Wal-Mart on that day, we all need to go and drop some $$$ at grocery stores, WallyWorld, etc that day.

I have $350 budgeted for Winn-Dixie (food store) and ammo at Wally-World...

We have to spend the money where they shop, buying a new AR that day pobably won't counter-act them...

WTF..

Aside from all the negative effects illegal immigrants have on this country, this is an insult to legal immigrants like me. So our family did the work to get here legally and get greencard, and now have to wait another 4.5 years minimum to get citizenship while those illegals get legalized just because... they are ILLEGAL?

Quoted: Quoted: Most of the money that illegals earn here gets sent back to Mexico for their families back there. They are a net suck on the US economy. The money they send home is the second or third largest source of foreign income in Mexico. They don't get paid enough or work for long enough to get health care benefits, so the families they have/start here get paid for by whom? Bueller? Bueller? That's right: you and I. Taxpayers. What happens when you amnestize them and make them legal? Will they suddenly make enough to afford Blue Cross or Cigna health insurance? No, but they'll qualify for every form of welfare there is, and have absolutely no incentive not to use it. Roger that.  The actual amount that goes South is 20 billion and is Mexico's largest cash cow.  After that is oil income.

one really bad thing about that money.. some is drug money (a lot) goes to people who in some instances control the gov in mexico and i can guarantee you their interest is not ours. secondly lots of that drug money comes back or stays north of the border to finance probably the most numerous, best organized and ruthless gangs in the US.  

you worried about terrorists? the mexican and south american gangs (MS13) do more real damage than al-quaida and all the muslim fanatics combined will probably ever do in america.

talk about mis-managed priorities...

Quoted: For those of you who are totally against this... What would you have ANY President do at this point?

The problem would solve itself if street cops could arrests for immigration violations.

Fax them THIS

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: For those of you who are totally against this... What would you have ANY President do at this point? Round them up? Kick the doors down and go get everyone? Do you REALLY want the .gov to acquire the kind of ability and logistics it would take to nab 12 million people who don't want to be caught? (think slippery slope, folks) FWIW I agree we should close up the porous borders. But what are we to do now. The genie is out of the bottle. I am genuinely curious here. I don't want illegals here either but are the consequences worth the costs...? Honest discussion, do not flame me. send in the marines to the next rally... theres half a million of em right off Replace "Illegal immigrants" with "gun owners" and reevaluate. Do you REALLY want people (who would become taxpayers under this plan) out that bad? (in all honesty I think it's high time we scrapped our current tax system and instituted a "fair tax" or better, a flat sales tax so everyone is hit according to their consumption... Whether they're legal or not, they get taxed...) Taxpayers? Having 10 kids and collecting AFDC doesn't make you a "taxpayer". And when your husband works off the books for cash it still doesn't mean you contribute a dime to the tax base. Illegals inspire more tax evasion than tax payment. THAT IS WHY THEY ARE SO POPULAR. Low wages and a fellow law breaker make tax evasion a snap. No health insurance, workers comp, FICA? Such a deal! Are they all just going to come here and go on public assistance?

As soon as they drop an anchor baby, yes.

Plus the added cost for infrastructure; hospitals, freeways, jails, prisons, schools that 12 million people bring with them.

I wonder what housing prices would be like in So Cal if the 8 million illegals here disappeared? Commute times would certainly be shorter.

Quoted: Quoted: For those of you who are totally against this... What would you have ANY President do at this point? Round them up? Kick the doors down and go get everyone? Do you REALLY want the .gov to acquire the kind of ability and logistics it would take to nab 12 million people who don't want to be caught? (think slippery slope, folks) FWIW I agree we should close up the porous borders. But what are we to do now. The genie is out of the bottle. I am genuinely curious here. I don't want illegals here either but are the consequences worth the costs...? Honest discussion, do not flame me. Macman That is the same excuse they used for the AMNESTY they passed in the mid-80s.  They said that would be it and they would "fix the problem".  Gee guess what, they didn't. So we have the amnesty of the mid-80's, the amnesty of 2006, expect one around 2020 and another one around 2030.   When the fuck is it going to stop!!!! I'm not saying we kick in doors to find them but when they are found via other means, i.e., traffic stops,  applying for welfare, etc, kick them the fuck out!   We should reward their bad behavior by doing an amnesty every 15 years?

At the risk of sounding harsh, DUH. If they're picked up for some kind of violation, yeah, send 'em back...

I was responding to the people saying "send in the Marines to round 'em up" ASIDE from the obvious Posse Comitatus violations, it is a slippery slope.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: For those of you who are totally against this... What would you have ANY President do at this point? Round them up? Kick the doors down and go get everyone? Do you REALLY want the .gov to acquire the kind of ability and logistics it would take to nab 12 million people who don't want to be caught? (think slippery slope, folks) FWIW I agree we should close up the porous borders. But what are we to do now. The genie is out of the bottle. I am genuinely curious here. I don't want illegals here either but are the consequences worth the costs...? Honest discussion, do not flame me. Macman That is the same excuse they used for the AMNESTY they passed in the mid-80s.  They said that would be it and they would "fix the problem".  Gee guess what, they didn't. So we have the amnesty of the mid-80's, the amnesty of 2006, expect one around 2020 and another one around 2030.   When the fuck is it going to stop!!!! I'm not saying we kick in doors to find them but when they are found via other means, i.e., traffic stops,  applying for welfare, etc, kick them the fuck out!   We should reward their bad behavior by doing an amnesty every 15 years? At the risk of sounding harsh, DUH. If they're picked up for some kind of violation, yeah, send 'em back...

We rarely do now and wont at all under the amnesty plans.  Right now INS will not even check the immigration status of mexican inmates inthe local jail until they are convicted of a felony. So if an illegal commits an ADW, but pleads down to a misdemeanor, INS will not deport him. He can commit 4 DUIs before any chance of deportation.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Are they all just going to come here and go on public assistance? Get real... I'm in Michigan and a few years ago I had to have my porch replaced. I hired a contractor that had a very nice crew of Hispanic laborers (I didn't check for their green cards, sorry) fix the porch that the born-here, domestic white guy POS I originally hired to do the job had utterly screwed up... Hard working guys. They didn't come here and drop out. While I hope they were here legally, if they were illegal, I hope these guys get their amnesty. They were the essence of what America stands for. Well Sir, I was in LA and San Diego at the border itself, and in the overwhelmed hospitals and at the multi-car DUI pileups, and in South LA on "Mother's Day" (the first of every month) when they collect AFDC. And in the courtrooms where they get no time for their crimes because the jails are full. Where car insurance is rare as hen's teeth and hit and run is the only way to go. Every square inch of every wall is covered in graffiti. Where the University of California has abandoned the "racist" SAT because scores keep dropping. Where hospitals are closing. Where gated communities are the rule if you have money. I could continue. You need an unguided tour of urban Los Angeles. Spend some time at LA County Hospital and just outside LA Central Jail. You probably won't make it back, but then again Pollyannas with their head in the sand are as real a menace as many of them. So your problem is the concentration of illegals becuase you live right on the border. Noted. Thanks for the insult as well.

Moved three states. Same shit, different state. The guys who built your porch off the tax rolls didn't commute from LA. It is actually a ludicrous statement you made. Almost everyone has seen the illegals. Herndon, VA has been having a problem with day laborers and Fairfax County, VA (where I lived for a while) is having to use code enforcement to keep single family homes from becoming tenements.

Previous waves of immigrants were legal. Previous waves swam or sank without social welfare programs. They learned English and assimilated. Those are huge differences from today's ILLEGAL border jumpers.

I probably will not vote for ANY republican this next election. I'd rather see them lose power then vote in more shithead democraps RINOs. Sad to say that the republicans have turned into a sad bunch of liberal money spending pussies.

Yeah, not all have but more and more are turning to the libtard side and we keep electing them anyways.

GringosOnProzac. Thats the GOP of today.

Quoted: Quoted: For those of you who are totally against this... What would you have ANY President do at this point? Round them up? Kick the doors down and go get everyone? Increase the fines for employing illegal immigrants 10-fold. Hire 1,000 more immigration officials to go to employers and enforce those laws. Hire 2,000 more border patrol agents per year, give them staff and material support and allow them to PURSUE illegal aliens seen crossing the border. (did you know BP are not allowed to chase illegals in vehicles?) Allow local police the authority to go after and arrest people violating immigration laws. Require proof of citizenship in order to vote in all federal elections. Stop offering free education, non-emergency medical care, housing subsidies and mortgage-incentives to illegal immigrants. Stop harrassing and threatening law-abiding citizens like the Minutemen and branding them as "vigilantes". REMOVE THE REASONS THEY COME HERE AND THEY'LL STOP COMING! What's so hard about that?

That's just for LA you're talking about right?

Quoted: WTF.. Aside from all the negative effects illegal immigrants have on this country, this is an insult to legal immigrants like me. So our family did the work to get here legally and get greencard, and now have to wait another 4.5 years minimum to get citizenship while those illegals get legalized just because... they are ILLEGAL?

Same here.

Quoted: 12 million?  bullshit.  try closer to 40 million illegals. this country is fucked.  seriously.

Exactly - the people pushing this fast-track to amnesty are lowballing the American public about how many illegal aliens there really are.

One way or the other, we need to secure the border.  Immigration and amnesty are contentious issues, but I don't think many will argue with putting a cork in things.  Do it for national security, do it for immigration control, do it in the War On Drugs.. Whatever.  Just clamp down on the southern border sooner rather than later.

Quoted: 12 million?  bullshit.  try closer to 40 million illegals. this country is fucked.  seriously.

Ha, ha, ha... try more like 100 MILLION!!!!

How 100 million you may ask? Well a provision of this legislation allows all the new Mexican pseudo-citizens to bring their families to the U.S.!!!

Are you scared yet? You should be.

Goodbye United States. Hello balkanized third world shithole.  

Quoted: That would work for me... FYI to the other guys, I just wanted to get you thinking. Some of you are so angry about this illegal immigration thing (yes, I don't like it either, OK?) that I think you're not seeing the forest for the trees: You're advocating rounding all 12 or whatever million of these illegals and sending them home. What happens when they're done and the infrastructure you had to build to accomplish this suddenly has to justify its existence? Remember, gun owners are just a newsworthy incident, a Democrat majority and a penstroke away from being the next "round 'em up" group.

You are thinking of it in the wrong way, as very little new infrastructure (or no new infrastructure) would need to be built to take care of the problem.  The main sticking point is how our deportation rules/laws are outdated and slow.  They need to be streamlined into a 5 minute process, instead of taking months, involving jails/detention centers, and allowing the illegals to walk back into our society.

Corporations/businesses who employ illegals need to be fined heavily and felony charges handed out.  Offer a reward system of 10% of the fine (tax free) to whoever turns in a business, if it is founded and a fine levied.  

State and Local Police forces could also be authorized and offered incentives to arrest illegal aliens.

Also, as has been said, the numbers the Government puts out (8-12 million illegals) is around half to a 3rd of what is actually here.  There are roughly 2-3 million illegals coming here yearly, and have been for quite a few years.  

Okay all I got to say on this matter is for starters, I am totally against the illegals being here. No they should not get their amnesty, why should they get a free pass while others wait in line legally because the politicians don't wanna deal with trying to rid of them all. Secondly this guest worker program, they claim this will allow the illegals to work 5 years or so, after they pay a fine, and taxes. Then they are deported back to wherever, where they get on a pending list of legal citizenship. This isn't that bad of an idea, but it needs to be less than 5 years, maybe 1 year at the most.

Now onto the other factor, this mass protesting. They are protesting in huge numbers (especially LA, but thats not a surprise there) they are coming out and waving their flag, burning the american flag, calling us racist gringos with no fear of being nabbed and deported. This is utter bullshit that they got away with this.

Also, sit and deny it all you want, but if theres some sort of immigration laws passed where these illegals will be considered felons and are to be deported, they're not gonna hide in fear, they have the numbers now (ie: the recent rallies) they will no doubt turn violent and start riots ala France a few months ago, but probably worse. Also that and having gangs like MS13help
Theres gonna be some very tense days/months/years ahead of us on this subject.

just thought i would give my 2 cents.

rykn0w - good post.

And to those legal immigrants of this site, and within our Nation - I'm proud to call you my fellow American.

Granted like with most things in the US involving paperwork - I'm sure its overwhelming to those who do wish to become US Citizens - but for our legislators to roll over and even consider allowing this otherwise named "amnesty" is compete bullshit.

They apparently arent listening, and dont give a shit with regards to this Nation's sovereignty.  It's an insult to my ancestors who came to this country and legally set up residency.  

Our politicians are failing us again - Repubs and Dems - no difference.

They're ignoring us - and they couldnt care less.

We're fat, lazy and content with our lives - carry on.

Don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure in the 18th Century, these politicos would have been DRAGGED from their offices.


BTW - for you Texans - might want to check this out - in Crawford

www.areckoning.com/

Quoted: Quoted: 12 million?  bullshit.  try closer to 40 million illegals. this country is fucked.  seriously. Ha, ha, ha... try more like 100 MILLION!!!! How 100 million you may ask? Well a provision of this legislation allows all the new Mexican pseudo-citizens to bring their families to the U.S.!!! Are you scared yet? You should be. Goodbye United States. Hello balkanized third world shithole.

Thank God, that is 100 Million jobs that Americans won't do.

Oh wait...

And the day after the millions and millions are legalized NOTHING will have changed for the better. The border will remain wide open and the flood will continue. Who are they kidding?

25% at least will settle in Cali. That will give Cali so much power in representation that one state will be enough to when in entire election without any help from the south or the midwest.

Boxer and Fienstien will run the country without being elected to the white house

I shit you not...

Senate proposal gains backing across Mexico

By Mark Stevenson
The Associated Press

MEXICO CITY — Mexicans cheered the proposal approved Monday by the Senate Judiciary Committee to legalize undocumented immigrants and provide temporary work visas, and credited huge marches of immigrants across the United States as the decisive factor behind the vote.

Mexican President Vicente Fox said the vote was the result of five years of work dating to the start of his presidential term in 2000, and puts Mexico one step closer toward the government's goal of "legalization for everyone" who works in the United States.

"My recognition and respect for all the Hispanics and all the Mexicans who have made their voice heard," Fox said. "We saw them turn out this weekend all across the United States, and that's going to count for a lot as we move forward."

Some Mexican media outlets were even more euphoric, predicting final approval for the committee bill as drafted, and suggesting the weekend demonstrations showed Mexico still holds some sway over former territories it lost in the 1846-48 Mexican-American War.

"With all due respect to Uncle Sam, this shows that Los Angeles has never stopped being ours," reporter Alberto Tinoco said on the Televisa television network's nightly news broadcast, referring to a Saturday march in Los Angeles that drew an estimated 500,000, mainly Mexicans.

But U.S. Ambassador Tony Garza warned Mexicans on Monday that the proposal still faces a long, difficult path through Congress.

"The debate will no doubt be heated and at times contentious," Garza wrote in an open letter distributed in Mexico City. "The debate in the Senate is only one part of the lengthy process."

The bill is designed to strengthen enforcement of U.S. borders, regulate the flow into the country of so-called guest workers and determine the legal future of the estimated 11 million immigrants living in the United States illegally.

The bill would double the Border Patrol and would authorize a "virtual wall" of unmanned vehicles, cameras and sensors to monitor the U.S.-Mexico border. It also would allow more visas for nurses and agriculture workers, and would shelter humanitarian organizations from prosecution if they provide nonemergency assistance to illegal residents.

Fox has been pushing for a immigration accord that would grant some form of legal status to many of the estimated 6 million undocumented Mexicans in the United States. He is likely to bring up the topic when he meets with President Bush starting Thursday in Cancún, Mexico.

Although a bill granting amnesty to illegal immigrants is unlikely to be approved by Congress, Fox remains hopeful that at least a guest-worker program will be put in place before he leaves office Dec. 1.

If the United States approves such a program, it would bolster Fox's image and aid the prospects of Felipe Calderon, presidential candidate for Fox's National Action Party, or PAN, said George Grayson, a Mexico expert at the College of William & Mary.

Illegal immigration has emerged as a significant issue in the campaigns of Mexico's three major presidential hopefuls for the July 2 elections, and the United States has asked Mexico to do more to strengthen security along their common border.

Somebody needs to put a hole in Fox's fat fucking head. I say about the size of 1/2 inch.

Quoted: Does the measure include Social Security numbers? Background checks? More people adding tax money into the idiotic Social programs we have going is a good thing. There could be a bright (ish) side to this, guys. I will not throw anything out without analyzing it. Remember, the Dubai Ports Deal looked bad at first blush too. Wasn't so bad after you really looked into it though.

VIDEO

Quoted: For those of you who are totally against this... What would you have ANY President do at this point? Round them up? Kick the doors down and go get everyone? Do you REALLY want the .gov to acquire the kind of ability and logistics it would take to nab 12 million people who don't want to be caught? (think slippery slope, folks) FWIW I agree we should close up the porous borders. But what are we to do now. The genie is out of the bottle. I am genuinely curious here. I don't want illegals here either but are the consequences worth the costs...? Honest discussion, do not flame me.

Let them stay, but make any crime they commit, no matter how small punishable by death.

You Californians better get ready to surrender your homes to the Mexicans. It is their land and you're nothing but a squatter.

The first action will be modest in scope: Proposition 13 (limits property tax increases) is reversed to pay for the needs of  La Raza. Your property taxes go up exponentially. Next, reparations.

Here comes the bubble burst!