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Posted: 3/28/2006 5:08:53 AM EDT
Anybody have inside knowledge on the two helos? I was just curious if it were a Pave Low in Somalia would the incident have been the same?
 As I understand it the pave low is fairly well armored and armed as well as being able to carry more troops. It would seem to make sense for the Army to use this chopper in the hotspots. I'm sure there's a reason ( other than just $$) that the blackhawk is the preferred army helo. I see the pave low runs $40 million bux vs the blackhawk $10 million but with the cost of a B2 you could buy an awful lot of pave low choppers. |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 5:10:46 AM EDT
[#1]
Different helicopters with different missions. You hear more about blackhawks going down because their mission gets them much closer to the shit. When you're hovering over a building filled with no-goodniks with guns and RPG's, your helo tends to get beat up. If you beat up on a 53 like that, it'd go down too.
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Posted: 3/28/2006 8:22:47 AM EDT
[#2]
With 3 guns firing instead of just one I'd think it could suppress the RPGs anyhow.
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Posted: 3/28/2006 8:36:44 AM EDT
[#3]
Regardless of how well the aircraft is armored shit happens. Armor in helicopters is designed to protect the crew and not the aircraft it self, with the exception of a few instances I’ve seen in my 21+ years in aviation maintenance. And those two instances are the Apache with armor protection running the length of the tail boom for hyd lines, and the OH-58 with armor plates to protect the compressor.
There are features such as self sealing fuel bladders, but it’s simply impossible to completely armor each vulnerable spot in the aircraft, especially when it comes to flight controls. Quib Former Army Crew Chief A&P Mechanic 
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Posted: 3/28/2006 9:29:11 AM EDT
[#4]
An RPG to the tail rotor would bring a CH-53 down just as fast as a UH-60. Thats the vulnerable portion of every helicopter(thats where you aim in the next revolution;)).
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Posted: 3/28/2006 1:42:48 PM EDT
[#5]
I worked on the Pavelow (MH-53J) from 1988-1993. I was in Desert Shield/Desert Storm with them. While robust, it will not survive a RPG to the tail rotor or to the main rotor hub. It can take some small arms fire but once again, depends on what is hit.
There is a reason that the AF Spec Ops community likes flying low and fast at night. In a hover you are very vulnerable, even with a mix of .50BMG and 7.62x51 miniguns on-board. |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 3:13:05 PM EDT
[#6]
No helo has armor that will do squat against an RPG
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Posted: 3/28/2006 3:15:01 PM EDT
[#7]
A 53 there that day never would have happened.
Never. Lot more than money involved in NOT using a 53. |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 3:36:04 PM EDT
[#8]
AF has a pretty limited number of MH-53's, they are not a asset that you can just dial up and order. The raid in question was one that was on again off again for days at a time, hard to justfy tying up a deep pentration bird like the MH on this.
And given the nature of the insertion in Somalia it would have been a much bigger target. An RPG to the tail rotor and you're going down. I don't think there is anything flying including the A-10 that has enough armor to stop a standard RPG round. just my 3 pesos MB |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 3:42:07 PM EDT
[#9]
Especially when you consider that M1A2's are being taken out by RPGs as well. Many people think that an RPG is a regular hand grenade with a rocket on the end. They have no idea that its designed to penetrate tank armor (the HEAT warheads anyway; there are anti-personnel warheads also). |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 3:59:02 PM EDT
[#10]
This may be a dumb question, can you fit a RPG guard on the tail boom like they're putting on armor?
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Posted: 3/28/2006 5:48:17 PM EDT
[#11]
Are you talking the slat armor that is being put on the Strykers? That stuff weighs a couple tons. Your're talking adding at least a few hundred pounds to the very rear of one. It could take the weight, but at a reduced load capacity, and since it would be at the rear, it would throw the balance off. Also more importantly, even if it did stop the round, the fragments would still damage the rotors, as those aren't made from armor.
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Posted: 3/28/2006 6:38:25 PM EDT
[#12]
Totally out of the question. You not only add weight that affects the weight and balance of the aircraft, but you affect the flight characteristics of the aircraft. |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 6:41:22 PM EDT
[#13]
So what if there are 4 bad guys with RPG's? Duh. |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 6:43:33 PM EDT
[#14]
Helicopters are not really flying, they are beating the air into submission. It's hard to keep them up and easy to bring them down.
Nature of the beast.
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Posted: 3/28/2006 6:44:48 PM EDT
[#15]
Well I'm no expert, but I've seen pictures of A-10's with a tail shot off or hald a wing gone that have made it back. I think that there were a couple a in Desert Storm that got shot up pretty bad and got home. The A-10 is a pretty tough machine. |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 7:11:51 PM EDT
[#16]
Uhh shoot them.... duh. |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 7:15:07 PM EDT
[#17]
The A-10 from Desert Storm you're referring to had a hole blown in it's wing by a SAM and still made it back. I'd imagine it would shrug off an RPG hit pretty easilly. |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 7:19:05 PM EDT
[#18]
Did you flunk math in third grade? If Johnny is leading a four man helo strike mission and has four RPG's and sets up his ambush for the helo in four seperate spots and the helo only has three defensive gun mounts what are the odds that one of the four RPG's operators will be able to complete their mission? Anyone? Anyone? Buhler? Buhler? 
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Posted: 3/28/2006 7:26:26 PM EDT
[#19]
No I didnt, you posted a smartass comment and I responded with one.
 Lighten up Francis. |
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