The real intent of the 2nd Amendment was to protect duck hunters' rights and to make sure we can all still own as many flintlocks as we want.  

Oh, and to establish the National Guard.


The FIRST Amendment, on the other hand, is around to make sure all the TV networks can say whatever they want at any given time without recourse and also to provide free funding for pr0n artists and museums.

Quoted: Its not about how to create a militia`s or how to wage an insurgency to overthrowing the government.  Some here would seek to poison our minds and it at times is necessary to make it clear they are not the majority in America.

Amendment II A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Militia was compulsory before the U.S.C. you would be fined the price of a rifle and ammo if you did not have it for militia muster, you could not barrow a neighbors either, you had to show up and train.

The second amendment is about militia and stopping tyrannical government.

Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive. -- Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, Philadelphia 1787

Quoted: The 2nd Amendment is to allow private Citizen's to own firearms. A tank, or f-18 is not a firearm.

Funny, I don't see the word firearm in the 2nd Amendment.  It says arms.

Per dictionary.com:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=arms

arm2   Audio pronunciation of "arms" ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (ärm)
n.

  1. A weapon, especially a firearm: troops bearing arms; ICBMs, bombs, and other nuclear arms.
  2. A branch of a military force: infantry, armor, and other combat arms.
  3. arms
        1. Warfare: a call to arms against the invaders.
        2. Military service: several million volunteers under arms; the profession of arms.
  4. arms
        1. Heraldry. Bearings.
        2. Insignia, as of a state, an official, a family, or an organization.


v. armed, arm·ing, arms
v. intr.

  1. To supply or equip oneself with weaponry.
  2. To prepare oneself for warfare or conflict.


v. tr.

  1. To equip with weapons: armed themselves with loaded pistols; arm a missile with a warhead; arm a nation for war.
  2. To equip with what is needed for effective action: tax advisers who were armed with the latest forms.
  3. To provide with something that strengthens or protects: a space reentry vehicle that was armed with a ceramic shield.
  4. To prepare (a weapon) for use or operation, as by releasing a safety device.

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Quoted: Quoted: Its not about how to create a militia`s or how to wage an insurgency to overthrowing the government.  Some here would seek to poison our minds and it at times is necessary to make it clear they are not the majority in America. Amendment II A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. Militia was compulsory before the U.S.C. you would be fined the price of a rifle and ammo if you did not have it for militia muster, you could not barrow a neighbors either, you had to show up and train. The second amendment is about militia and stopping tyrannical government. Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive. -- Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, Philadelphia 1787

Please don`t  take my words out of context.  I said "AR15.com is a firearms site consisting of people who enjoy the shooting sports and who make clear to all the importance of maintaining our consitutional rights to continue to do so. Its not about how to create a militia`s or how to wage an insurgency to overthrowing the government. Some here would seek to poison our minds and it at times is necessary to make it clear they are not the majority in America".

I was sharing my opinion not defining the constitution.

Quoted: Please don`t  take my words out of context.  I said "AR15.com is a firearms site consisting of people who enjoy the shooting sports and who make clear to all the importance of maintaining our consitutional rights to continue to do so. Its not about how to create a militia`s or how to wage an insurgency to overthrowing the government. Some here would seek to poison our minds and it at times is necessary to make it clear they are not the majority in America". I was sharing my opinion not defining the constitution.

And I am disagreeing with you, the organizing often goes on through IMs and emails and not posted public but the material that is posted publically does change minds.

You should not be afraid to criticize government, you should not be afraid to assemble on the green and drill as it is every Americans duty to do so.

Quoted: Quoted: Please don`t  take my words out of context.  I said "AR15.com is a firearms site consisting of people who enjoy the shooting sports and who make clear to all the importance of maintaining our consitutional rights to continue to do so. Its not about how to create a militia`s or how to wage an insurgency to overthrowing the government. Some here would seek to poison our minds and it at times is necessary to make it clear they are not the majority in America". I was sharing my opinion not defining the constitution. And I am disagreeing with you, the organizing often goes on through IMs and emails and not posted public but the material that is posted publically does change minds. You should not be afraid to criticize government, you should not be afraid to assemble on the green and drill as it is every Americans duty to do so.

I respect your right to disagree.   My use of firearms is for pleasure and sport.  My CCW is to protect
my family and myself.    It  just good once and a while for those who talk the loudest to know  just because we tend to not say alot,  does not mean the rest of this countries citizens are sheep.  We will defend ourselves and our government against any enemies foreign or domestic.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Please don`t  take my words out of context.  I said "AR15.com is a firearms site consisting of people who enjoy the shooting sports and who make clear to all the importance of maintaining our consitutional rights to continue to do so. Its not about how to create a militia`s or how to wage an insurgency to overthrowing the government. Some here would seek to poison our minds and it at times is necessary to make it clear they are not the majority in America". I was sharing my opinion not defining the constitution. And I am disagreeing with you, the organizing often goes on through IMs and emails and not posted public but the material that is posted publically does change minds. You should not be afraid to criticize government, you should not be afraid to assemble on the green and drill as it is every Americans duty to do so. I respect your right to disagree.   My use of firearms is for pleasure and sport.  My CCW is to protect my family and myself.    It  just good once and a while for those who talk the loudest to know  just because we tend to not say alot,  does not mean the rest of this countries citizens are sheep.  We will defend ourselves and our government against any enemies foreign or domestic.

Just for shits and giggles, mind defining what you mean by "our government"

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Please don`t  take my words out of context.  I said "AR15.com is a firearms site consisting of people who enjoy the shooting sports and who make clear to all the importance of maintaining our consitutional rights to continue to do so. Its not about how to create a militia`s or how to wage an insurgency to overthrowing the government. Some here would seek to poison our minds and it at times is necessary to make it clear they are not the majority in America". I was sharing my opinion not defining the constitution. And I am disagreeing with you, the organizing often goes on through IMs and emails and not posted public but the material that is posted publically does change minds. You should not be afraid to criticize government, you should not be afraid to assemble on the green and drill as it is every Americans duty to do so. I respect your right to disagree.   My use of firearms is for pleasure and sport.  My CCW is to protect my family and myself.    It  just good once and a while for those who talk the loudest to know  just because we tend to not say alot,  does not mean the rest of this countries citizens are sheep.  We will defend ourselves and our government against any enemies foreign or domestic. Just for shits and giggles, mind defining what you mean by "our government"

"Just for shits and gigles"  LOL. Another person to not take seriously.

Tyrants only are rebels Scarcely had he finished these words, when a great tumult arose in the west; and turning to that quarter, I perceived, at the extremity of the Mediterranean, in one of the nations of Europe, a prodigious movement--such as when a violent sedition arises in a vast city--a numberless people, rushing in all directions, pour through the streets and fluctuate like waves in the public places. My ear, struck with the cries which resounded to the heavens, distinguished these words: What is this new prodigy? What cruel and mysterious scourge is this? We are a numerous people and we want hands! We have an excellent soil, and we are in want of subsistence? We are active and laborious, and we live in indigence! We pay enormous tributes, and we are told they are not sufficient! We are at peace without, and our persons and property are not safe within. Who, then, is the secret enemy that devours us? Some voices from the midst of the multitude replied: Raise a discriminating standard; and let all those who maintain and nourish mankind by useful labors gather round it; and you will discover the enemy that preys upon you. The standard being raised, this nation divided itself at once into two bodies of unequal magnitude and contrasted appearance. The one, innumerable, and almost total, exhibited in the poverty of its clothing, in its emaciated appearance and sun-burnt faces, the marks of misery and labor; the other, a little group, an insignificant faction, presented in its rich attire embroidered with gold and silver, and in its sleek and ruddy faces, the signs of leisure and abundance. Considering these men more attentively, I found that the great body was composed of farmers, artificers, merchants, all professions useful to society; and that the little group was made up of priests of every order, of financiers, of nobles, of men in livery, of commanders of armies; in a word, of the civil, military, and religious agents of government. These two bodies being assembled face to face, and regarding each other with astonishment, I saw indignation and rage arising in one side, and a sort of panic in the other. And the large body said to the little one: Why are you separated from us? Are you not of our number? No, replied the group; you are the people; we are a privileged class, who have our laws, customs, and rights, peculiar to ourselves. PEOPLE.--And what labor do you perform in our society? PRIVILEGED CLASS.--None; we are not made to work. PEOPLE.--How, then, have you acquired these riches? PRIVILEGED CLASS.--By taking the pains to govern you. PEOPLE.--What! is this what you call governing? We toil and you enjoy! we produce and you dissipate! Wealth proceeds from us, and you absorb it. Privileged men! class who are not the people; form a nation apart, and govern yourselves.* * This dialogue between the people and the indolent classes, is applicable to every society; it contains the seeds of all the political vices and disorders that prevail, and which may thus be defined: Men who do nothing, and who devour the substance of others; and men who arrogate to themselves particular rights and exclusive privileges of wealth and indolence. Compare the Mamlouks of Egypt, the nobility of Europe, the Nairs of India, the Emirs of Arabia, the patricians of Rome, the Christian clergy, the Imans, the Bramins, the Bonzes, the Lamas, etc., etc., and you will find in all the same characteristic feature:--Men living in idleness at the expense of those who labor. Then the little group, deliberating on this new state of things, some of the most honorable among them said: We must join the people and partake of their labors and burdens, for they are men like us, and our riches come from them; but others arrogantly exclaimed: It would be a shame, an infamy, for us to mingle with the crowd; they are born to serve us. Are we not men of another race--the noble and pure descendants of the conquerors of this empire? This multitude must be reminded of our rights and its own origin. THE NOBLES.--People! know you not that our ancestors conquered this land, and that your race was spared only on condition of serving us? This is our social compact! this the government constituted by custom and prescribed by time. PEOPLE.--O conquerors, pure of blood! show us your genealogies! we shall then see if what in an individual is robbery and plunder, can be virtuous in a nation. And forthwith, voices were heard in every quarter calling out the nobles by their names; and relating their origin and parentage, they told how the grandfather, great-grandfather, or even father, born traders and mechanics, after acquiring wealth in every way, had purchased their nobility for money: so that but very few families were really of the original stock. See, said these voices, see these purse-proud commoners who deny their parents! see these plebian recruits who look upon themselves as illustrious veterans! and peals of laughter were heard. And the civil governors said: these people are mild, and naturally servile; speak to them of the king and of the law, and they will return to their duty. People! the king wills, the sovereign ordains! PEOPLE.--The king can will nothing but the good of the people; the sovereign can only ordain according to law. CIVIL GOVERNORS.--The law commands you to be submissive. PEOPLE.--The law is the general will; and we will a new order of things. CIVIL GOVERNORS.--You are then a rebel people. PEOPLE.--A nation cannot revolt; tyrants only are rebels. CIVIL GOVERNORS.--The king is on our side; he commands you to submit. PEOPLE.--Kings are inseparable from their nations. Our king cannot be with you; you possess only his phantom. And the military governors came forward. The people are timorous, said they; we must threaten them; they will submit only to force. Soldiers, chastise this insolent multitude. PEOPLE.--Soldiers, you are of our blood! Will you strike your brothers, your relatives? If the people perish who will nourish the army? And the soldiers, grounding their arms, said to the chiefs: We are likewise the people; show us the enemy! Then the ecclesiastical governors said: There is but one resource left. The people are superstitious; we must frighten them with the names of God and religion. Our dear brethren! our children! God has ordained us to govern you. PEOPLE.--Show us your credentials from God! PRIESTS.--You must have faith; reason leads astray. PEOPLE.--Do you govern without reason? PRIESTS.--God commands peace! Religion prescribes obedience. PEOPLE.--Peace supposes justice. Obedience implies conviction of a duty. PRIESTS.--Suffering is the business of this world. PEOPLE.--Show us the example. PRIESTS.--Would you live without gods or kings? PEOPLE.--We would live without oppressors. PRIESTS.--You must have mediators, intercessors. PEOPLE.--Mediators with God and with the king! courtiers and priests, your services are too expensive: we will henceforth manage our own affairs. And the little group said: We are lost! the multitude are enlightened. And the people answered: You are safe; since we are enlightened we will commit no violence; we only claim our rights. We feel resentments, but we will forget them. We were slaves, we might command; but we only wish to be free, and liberty is but justice.

Quoted: Quoted: Number of gun owners in the U.S. = 80 million+ Size of U.S. Military = 1.5 million (approximately) Yep, they couldn't possibly get us all.

They don't have to.  99% or more of that 80 million will hand in their guns and be home in time to watch American Idol.

I can't speak for the east but in the northwest here many many of the gun owners are shooters, they spend thousands of rounds practicing and have thousands more in storage, if a large scale gun grab was attempted the gov forces were still be outnumbered even if most the hunters turned in their arms.

Quoted: I can't speak for the east but in the northwest here many many of the gun owners are shooters, they spend thousands of rounds practicing and have thousands more in storage, if a large scale gun grab was attempted the gov forces were still be outnumbered even if most the hunters turned in their arms.

Yup, just drive 'em to the Columbia from both sides and watch them float out ot sea..

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Please don`t  take my words out of context.  I said "AR15.com is a firearms site consisting of people who enjoy the shooting sports and who make clear to all the importance of maintaining our consitutional rights to continue to do so. Its not about how to create a militia`s or how to wage an insurgency to overthrowing the government. Some here would seek to poison our minds and it at times is necessary to make it clear they are not the majority in America". I was sharing my opinion not defining the constitution. And I am disagreeing with you, the organizing often goes on through IMs and emails and not posted public but the material that is posted publically does change minds. You should not be afraid to criticize government, you should not be afraid to assemble on the green and drill as it is every Americans duty to do so. I respect your right to disagree.   My use of firearms is for pleasure and sport.  My CCW is to protect my family and myself.    It  just good once and a while for those who talk the loudest to know  just because we tend to not say alot,  does not mean the rest of this countries citizens are sheep.  We will defend ourselves and our government against any enemies foreign or domestic. Just for shits and giggles, mind defining what you mean by "our government" "Just for shits and gigles"  LOL. Another person to not take seriously.

I asked what you meant by "our government"
Thats a ambiguous term.
To me "our government" means the principles and ideas.
To another "our government" may simply mean the institution of government.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Please don`t  take my words out of context.  I said "AR15.com is a firearms site consisting of people who enjoy the shooting sports and who make clear to all the importance of maintaining our consitutional rights to continue to do so. Its not about how to create a militia`s or how to wage an insurgency to overthrowing the government. Some here would seek to poison our minds and it at times is necessary to make it clear they are not the majority in America". I was sharing my opinion not defining the constitution. And I am disagreeing with you, the organizing often goes on through IMs and emails and not posted public but the material that is posted publically does change minds. You should not be afraid to criticize government, you should not be afraid to assemble on the green and drill as it is every Americans duty to do so. I respect your right to disagree.   My use of firearms is for pleasure and sport.  My CCW is to protect my family and myself.    It  just good once and a while for those who talk the loudest to know  just because we tend to not say alot,  does not mean the rest of this countries citizens are sheep.  We will defend ourselves and our government against any enemies foreign or domestic. Just for shits and giggles, mind defining what you mean by "our government" "Just for shits and gigles"  LOL. Another person to not take seriously. I asked what you meant by "our government" Thats a ambiguous term. To me "our government" means the principles and ideas. To another "our government" may simply mean the institution of government.

Why do you care? Everyone can see thru his bullshit so don't sweat it.

If and when he comes up with a legitimate argument based on salient points, intelligently written...well, then just maybe someone will give a shit.
I ain't holding my breath.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Please don`t  take my words out of context.  I said "AR15.com is a firearms site consisting of people who enjoy the shooting sports and who make clear to all the importance of maintaining our consitutional rights to continue to do so. Its not about how to create a militia`s or how to wage an insurgency to overthrowing the government. Some here would seek to poison our minds and it at times is necessary to make it clear they are not the majority in America". I was sharing my opinion not defining the constitution. And I am disagreeing with you, the organizing often goes on through IMs and emails and not posted public but the material that is posted publically does change minds. You should not be afraid to criticize government, you should not be afraid to assemble on the green and drill as it is every Americans duty to do so. I respect your right to disagree.   My use of firearms is for pleasure and sport.  My CCW is to protect my family and myself.    It  just good once and a while for those who talk the loudest to know  just because we tend to not say alot,  does not mean the rest of this countries citizens are sheep.  We will defend ourselves and our government against any enemies foreign or domestic. Just for shits and giggles, mind defining what you mean by "our government" "Just for shits and gigles"  LOL. Another person to not take seriously. I asked what you meant by "our government" Thats a ambiguous term. To me "our government" means the principles and ideas. To another "our government" may simply mean the institution of government. Why do you care? Everyone can see thru his bullshit so don't sweat it. If and when he comes up with a legitimate argument based on salient points, intelligently written...well, then just maybe someone will give a shit. I ain't holding my breath.

Make up your mind you said you were ignoring me.  

Quoted: Quoted: Number of gun owners in the U.S. = 80 million+ Size of U.S. Military = 1.5 million (approximately) all our small arms in the world are powerless against some of the gov't equipment.  Even machine guns won't slow down a B-52.

First off, I am not advocating the over throw of the government or terrorism. I post strictly for the sake of arguement. And historically speaking your arguement has no merit.

Lightly armed citizens have successfully defended themselves from heavily armed, well trained armies in the past. In 1943 in Warsaw, Poland, less than 1,000 half starved Jews armed themselves with pistols and Molitov Cocktails and held off the German Army for over a month. In the 1980s the Mujahadien armed only with little more than battle worn rifles and a few shoulder fired missles, repelled an invasion by one of the most powerful nations ever to exist on this planet. Rag tag groups have in the past and even now in places all over the world used guerilla tactics to even the odds against well trained, heavily armed military forces.

If a Hitleresque tyrant ever came to power in this country and began rounding up Americans they would have a mess on their hands and the freedom loving people of this nation could defend their liberty and their lives.

Quoted: Part 1 Part 2 Part 3

What is sad is that we are facing manpower shortages when it could be solved quickly and efficiently. Your born male and able bodied your in the militia. With the proper training and the right missions our problems on the southern border could be shut down quickly and efficiently. A lot of college boys would be spending summer vacation on our southern border. It would do them a hell of a lot of good. There would be no need for draft anybody that refuses to serve looses their government aid immediately. I have a son who I know it would do him good. Great student and everything but it would be a good experience for him. Snow ball chance in hell of this happening. Washington doesn't give a crap about this country. There is a few Senators and Representatives that are still patriots before politicians but not many. We will continue down our present course of being paralyzed to do anything meaningful to stop the invasion.