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Posted: 3/27/2006 8:54:57 AM EDT
Gun shows caught amid heated crossfire
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/14187268.htm

Each weekend in America, vast arsenals of weapons are bought and sold. Critics say those buyers include criminals. Advocates insist it’s all legal.
By JUDY L. THOMAS
The Kansas City Star

AK-47s. SKS sniper rifles. Armor-piercing bullets. Machine gun displays.

It’s just another weekend at a Kansas City gun show, where there is so much firepower at your fingertips that even some gun enthusiasts shake their heads in wonder.

But the shows — which gained popularity in the 1990s and now number in the thousands nationwide — are coming under increasing fire as critics claim they are contributing to the incidence of violent crime.

“Gun shows are one of our main problems,” said Kansas City Mayor Pro Tem Alvin Brooks. “These are the guns that end up on the streets of America.”


<snip for length, click here for entire story>

Link Posted: 3/27/2006 8:56:13 AM EDT

. SKS sniper rifles. ....

Link Posted: 3/27/2006 8:56:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lon_Moer:

. SKS sniper rifles. ....




Credibility
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 8:58:17 AM EDT
Fuck KC
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:00:18 AM EDT
Didn't they become popular before the 90's? Like, I don't know... the 60's? I went to a helluva lotta shows in the 70's when I was a kid. I fiond it hard to believe that they didn't become popular until the 90's.


Guns end up on the streets? Does he mean to imply that guns bought at gun shows are often used in violent crime in urban settings? Or, does he mean to imply that guns are bought by average, law abiding citizens. I guess I'm a little confused to his point.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:02:42 AM EDT
Fuck these anti-gun liberal pieces of shit no good mother fuckers. I hope every one of them are beaten to death by criminals with bats and hammers and knives.

I'm sick of it, these scumbags are a scourge....
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:04:10 AM EDT

where there is so much firepower at your fingertips that even some gun enthusiasts shake their heads in wonder.



I wonder which 10 of these AR15's I'm going to buy today
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:07:07 AM EDT
They end up in the streets until the owner takes them inside.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:08:23 AM EDT
Why is it that they can continue to perpetuate this lie that dealers at gun shows somehow don't have to follow the rules and are quite willing to sell to criminals?
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:09:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By falaholic1:
They end up in the streets until the owner takes them inside.



I ran over an UZI and got a flat tire, these things shouldnt be in the streets!
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:13:36 AM EDT

“I think the average person would be in awe at what’s all legal now,” said Maj. Anthony Ell, commander of the Kansas City Police Department’s violent crimes division.




What a twit.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:15:59 AM EDT
Gun shows these days are nothing compared to the late 70's early 80's. You did not see a lot of AK's etc. But you had everything else.

Stacks of Uzi's, Belgium FAL's, Colt AR's galore, pallets of surplus ammo, tables full of MG and silencer parts.

I still wonder how many illegal MG's and silencers there have to be out there.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:48:49 AM EDT
So gun shows didn't become popular until the 90s, huh? Hell, I must have been going to the un-popular gunshows in the 80s, and I know they were around long before that. And since when do gunshow dealers sell to just anybody without filling out a 4470 form and a NICS check???? What a bunch of lying shitheads. The sad part is a lot of people buy into the lies.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:52:17 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:53:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:55:42 AM EDT

Critics contend that the biggest problem is a legal loophole that allows criminals and others who are prohibited from buying a firearm to obtain guns from unlicensed sellers at guns shows


False.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:58:05 AM EDT

“Gun shows are one of our main problems,” said Kansas City Mayor Pro Tem Alvin Brooks."

Oh sweet mercy do I fucking hate that fucking slimy fucking piece of fucking shit. I'm suger coating my feelings about that retched peice of race-baiting, festering, stinking, pile of filth too.


He's the same MFer who made the claim that it would be the man with the CCW you had to fear in his city parks at night. He worked every way possible to block CCW in Kansas City and was involved in the court case taken to the Supreme Court.

I don't have to read a word further to know this is nothing but a pack of lies from KC Star's normal parade of BS.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:58:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By falaholic1:
They end up in the streets until the owner takes them inside.



I was gona say the same thing. Most people keeps guns in their houses. Houses are usualy built next to streets.

Besides, if someone found a gun on the street, they would either claim it for themselves or notify the police.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:59:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By shotar:

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:
Why is it that they can continue to perpetuate this lie that dealers at gun shows somehow don't have to follow the rules and are quite willing to sell to criminals?



There are many private parties at shows selling personal collections Week after week show after show that are not " engaging in business ". They however sell to anyone with cash and seem to not know what an FFL is. We do ourselves no favor by not acknowledging that this goes on.



You can thank the ATF and the Brady Bill for that. If you tried to do a NICS check without an FFL they would hang up on you, and thanks to the ATF's enforcement of the "business only" requirement for FFLs lots of home gun dealers have lost their licenses. The only thing left to do now is outlaw private transfers.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 10:03:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By shotar:

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:
Why is it that they can continue to perpetuate this lie that dealers at gun shows somehow don't have to follow the rules and are quite willing to sell to criminals?



There are many private parties at shows selling personal collections Week after week show after show that are not " engaging in business ". They however sell to anyone with cash and seem to not know what an FFL is. We do ourselves no favor by not acknowledging that this goes on.



Can you tell me which shows these are because I have yet to find them. Every gun I have ever bought has a paper trail and I've been to tons of gun shows while living in several different states. Now occassionally I will see someone walking through the show with a deer rifle with a for sale sign on it but that's not the multiple unlicensed dealers you are claiming exist at every gun show. If you know about all those unlicensed dealers breaking the law why not just turn them into your friends at the ATF?
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 10:03:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By shotar:

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:
Why is it that they can continue to perpetuate this lie that dealers at gun shows somehow don't have to follow the rules and are quite willing to sell to criminals?



There are many private parties at shows selling personal collections Week after week show after show that are not " engaging in business ". They however sell to anyone with cash and seem to not know what an FFL is. We do ourselves no favor by not acknowledging that this goes on.



You can thank the ATF and the Brady Bill for that. If you tried to do a NICS check without an FFL they would hang up on you, and thanks to the ATF's enforcement of the "business only" requirement for FFLs lots of home gun dealers have lost their licenses. The only thing left to do now is outlaw private transfers.



Yep. Classic politics. Set the conditions and then cry about the conditions until you win another consession. Repeat as often as nessisary.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 10:07:43 AM EDT
SKS Sniper rifles?
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 10:10:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2006 10:13:51 AM EDT by Grunteled]

Originally Posted By Zippy_The_Wonderdog:
SKS Sniper rifles?



Apparently, if it has a scope and can hit a pumpkin at 50yds it's a 'sniper rifle'. God forbid we own weapons that we can predict where the bullet will hit. We'd be much better off if fewer people had rifles they could hit what they aimed at with!

ETA: Ban sights.... do it for..... ummmm..... do it for....... ahhhhh, the deer?
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 10:17:19 AM EDT
Wow, have you guys been writing feedback to the article? Good stuff! There's not one piece of feedback in defense of the article! Betcha this idiot reporter feels stupid now...
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 10:20:33 AM EDT

www.kansascity.com/images/kansascity/kansascitystar/news/GUNSHOW_ME_031206_KAM_069F_03-26-2006_4UKDDNQ.jpg

Pictures like this really piss me off. You think the photographer could get a decent pic of the damn price tags, I wanna know how much that flattop is going for!
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 10:24:08 AM EDT
Whats wrong with giving both sides to a story? They should also show what you'd see when you turn around....




Link Posted: 3/27/2006 10:25:41 AM EDT
Yeah, that bitch is getting pwn3d in the comments section, not one comment in favor of the article...I wonder if she or the paper will post any sort of rebuttal?
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:53:52 AM EDT
Gun shows used to be held at my local shopping mall, and they were free!
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:58:26 AM EDT

...Eighteen months ago, Congress did not reauthorize the part of the Brady Law that banned the manufacture and sale of 19 kinds of military-style assault weapons. Now that the weapons are back on the market, authorities say they are trying to get tougher on weapons violations.


the only good fucking thing in the entire article.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 12:06:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2006 12:07:57 PM EDT by JBowles]
This persons most recent artical.

Go Jeff and John

www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/14187267.htm

Machine gun dealer does business at a brisk clip
By JUDY L. THOMAS
The Kansas City Star

FAYETTE, Mo. — In just four years, Jeff and John Overstreet went from running a print shop to renting out machine guns to blaze away on their shooting range.

“Most people don’t realize it’s legal,” said Jeff Overstreet, whose company, CMMG Inc., also manufactures and sells semiautomatic assault weapons and accessories.

CMMG, which stands for Central Missouri Machine Guns Not quite.. HEHE, is a frequent vendor at area gun shows, setting up displays at 25 to 30 shows a year around the state. Its inventory of assault weapons is impressive.

One commemorates firefighters who died at the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001. And the odd-looking PS90 is a civilian version of a weapon used by the Secret Service.

Although CMMG sells primarily to civilians, Overstreet said, it also does business with law enforcement agencies, the military and private contractors in Afghanistan and Iraq. It operates out of a nondescript building several miles outside Fayette.

“We take our business very, very seriously,” Overstreet said. “When we applied for our federal license, everyone had to be fingerprinted and have their mug shots taken and the sheriff had to be notified. Then we all had to pass a federal background check.”

Among CMMG’s 20 machine gun models — available for rent only at their Fayette range — are the military M-16 and the MP5SD, which is used by law enforcement and counterterrorism agencies worldwide.

Before shooting the weapons, a person must sign a waiver and undergo a background check, Overstreet said.

His prices are $10 for a 30-round magazine, a bargain compared with what you would pay in Las Vegas, where similar enterprises charge $1 a round.

Still, it only takes about four seconds to empty a magazine. But some gun enthusiasts say it is worth the money.

“It can be fun, but it’s harder to hit things than you think,” said Kevin Jamison of the Western Missouri Shooters Alliance.

CMMG only allows people to rent machine guns during regular “shoots,” which are usually held every month or two. Overstreet said the shoots draw from 80 to 150 persons.

The company also sponsors competitions, such as the “Midwest 3-Gun Championships” coming up April 29 and 30. Prizes total in the thousands of dollars, and participants come from across the United States.

Renting is one thing, but buying a machine gun can be a major undertaking, Overstreet said.

“They’re all subject to a very extensive federal background check,” he said. “It usually takes about six months.”

Machine guns also are not cheap. Overstreet noted that when the federal government started regulating machine guns in the gangster era of the 1930s, you could purchase one for $175.

Today, civilians can only legally buy machine guns made before 1986. Even an old M-16 can cost $7,000 to $15,000.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 12:17:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Gun shows these days are nothing compared to the late 70's early 80's. You did not see a lot of AK's etc. But you had everything else.

Stacks of Uzi's, Belgium FAL's, Colt AR's galore, pallets of surplus ammo, tables full of MG and silencer parts.

I still wonder how many illegal MG's and silencers there have to be out there.



That's why they call it the "Good Old Days"
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 12:44:37 PM EDT
It has been sad to see Kansas falling to the socialists. I expected better of Kansans.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 1:12:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
It has been sad to see Kansas falling to the socialists. I expected better of Kansans.



Kansas City is actually in Missouri you know

Name me a large downtown that's anything other than a political cesspool.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 1:14:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lon_Moer:

. SKS sniper rifles. ....








Link Posted: 3/27/2006 1:30:31 PM EDT
This is a great opportunity if we play our cards right.

What we do is…

Come up with some reasonable rules to close the “gun show loophole.” (Which doesn’t really exist I know.) In reality the new rules should make it easier for people to get dealers licenses and conduct background checks.

We should also put a provision in that would strictly regulate rifles with barrels under 16”. The new law would treat these rifles as handguns. (Drastically reducing the restrictions I know, but the average anti gunner won’t have a clue.)

Then, to limit the availability of machine guns, we need to strictly regulate the new manufacture and possession of fully automatic weapons to those with a Federal license.

Put the whole thing into one bill and insist it gets voted on as a package.

Link Posted: 3/27/2006 1:40:43 PM EDT
Guns shows suck these days. Jerky, coins, cheap jewlery, beanie babies etc.


SKS sniper rifles That is an oxymoron
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 1:42:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Grunteled:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
It has been sad to see Kansas falling to the socialists. I expected better of Kansans.



Kansas City is actually in Missouri you know



Oh that Kansas City...
Seen enough around here about BS political crap in Kansas, the State, also.


Name me a large downtown that's anything other than a political cesspool.


Too true.
If there ever is a civil war in this country I suspect it will degenerate into urban vs rural lines with the .gov attmepting to take from the rural folks to maintain power and security in the cities. Similar to now, only more at gunpoint.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 2:08:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By shotar:

There are many private parties at shows selling personal collections Week after week show after show that are not " engaging in business ". They however sell to anyone with cash and seem to not know what an FFL is. We do ourselves no favor by not acknowledging that this goes on.



You are absolutely correct. Perhaps we need to take up a collection for these Beacons of Freedom, perhaps buy them Carribbean vacations or other such prizes as tokens of appreciation.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 2:14:09 PM EDT
Is it even possible to mount a scope onto an SKS and be able to reload?
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 2:27:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Thuban:
This is a great opportunity if we play our cards right.

What we do is…

Come up with some reasonable rules to close the “gun show loophole.” (Which doesn’t really exist I know.) In reality the new rules should make it easier for people to get dealers licenses and conduct background checks.

We should also put a provision in that would strictly regulate rifles with barrels under 16”. The new law would treat these rifles as handguns. (Drastically reducing the restrictions I know, but the average anti gunner won’t have a clue.)

Then, to limit the availability of machine guns, we need to strictly regulate the new manufacture and possession of fully automatic weapons to those with a Federal license.

Put the whole thing into one bill and insist it gets voted on as a package.




Bump, because I like the way you think Thuban!!

--VT
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 2:32:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 2:48:31 PM EDT
So where do I find the low-power, highly innacurate rifles?
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 5:38:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pzjgr:
Fuck these anti-gun liberal pieces of shit no good mother fuckers. I hope every one of them are beaten to death by criminals with bats and hammers and knives.





Your health will suffer if you don't let your feeling out..............................
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 5:55:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By shotar:

Originally Posted By SWIRE:

Originally Posted By shotar:

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:
Why is it that they can continue to perpetuate this lie that dealers at gun shows somehow don't have to follow the rules and are quite willing to sell to criminals?



There are many private parties at shows selling personal collections Week after week show after show that are not " engaging in business ". They however sell to anyone with cash and seem to not know what an FFL is. We do ourselves no favor by not acknowledging that this goes on.



Can you tell me which shows these are because I have yet to find them. Every gun I have ever bought has a paper trail and I've been to tons of gun shows while living in several different states. Now occassionally I will see someone walking through the show with a deer rifle with a for sale sign on it but that's not the multiple unlicensed dealers you are claiming exist at every gun show. If you know about all those unlicensed dealers breaking the law why not just turn them into your friends at the ATF?



Akron, Medina, Berea, Niles, oh hell, nearly all of them in Ohio



So if I sell a couple of rifles a year I no longer use at a gun show, to fund a new rifle or two, I am doing something wrong? Especially if I take down the Driver License#, verify they are of legal age and make them sign a reciept stating that they are legal to buy a gun? Ask for a CCW also as that is a pretty good sign that they are good to go.

I don't see an issue at all, legality wise.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:56:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Grunteled:

Name me a large downtown that's anything other than a political cesspool.





Nashville, Knoxville & Chattanooga will do for starters. memphis, OTOH, would have to rise to reach cesspool level.
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