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Posted: 3/27/2006 8:22:16 AM EDT
I'd like to share my opinion of this idea. I think a lot of Americans hear about it on TV for a second, think that it's a great middle ground policy to have, give it a passing grade without much thought, and move on to the next missing whit girl story du jour. In my opinion, the guest worker idea may even be worse than what we have now. This might start to sound like an ACLU rant but hear me out. It creates a second class citizen in this country. A person who is here, that works (maybe still less than minimum wage?), doesn't have the full rights of a citizen. Exhibit A for what this kind of policy has produced in the past is Germany. After WW2 there was a huge influx of so called "guest workers" into Europe in order to rebuild. Most of which came from Africa, and Islamic states in the Middle East (Mostly Turkey). Now, I understand we may not all be following the social problems of Germany day to day, but ask just about any German what has become of these temporary guest workers. They have become a permanent fixture in their demographics, an enraged minority (justified or not) but the treatment as a second class citizen. Same can be seen in France and the Netherlands. I'm not sure what the perfect solution to our immigration policy is, but I am sure that history has put forth an example not to follow and we may be doomed to repeat. How about actual border control, maybe up the quota for legal iimigration, do some background checks, and at least minimize the felons and social parasites that get into this country all while giving those who really do want a piece of the American Dream a fair shot which of course includes the duties of paying some damn taxes into the system instead of leeching off it entirely. I'll get off my soap box now.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 8:27:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 8:29:12 AM EDT
A "guest worker" program like the Bracero program in the 1960's would probibly be the best solution to the current problems we have with illegal immigration.

A program which would allow workers to work and live in the United States.
But would not allow the workers to immigrate their families or have them live in the US,
Nor could they ever apply for permanent residence in the US or citizenship.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 8:30:34 AM EDT
Guest Worker Program or as I call it Amnesty for criminals, nothing more just in invitation for more illegal’s to break the law, that’s all.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 8:33:32 AM EDT
If a guest worker gets stuck in a farming combine - who pays his medical bills?

That answer is enough for me to say no thanks.

Link Posted: 3/27/2006 8:35:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By migradog:
A "guest worker" program like the Bracero program in the 1960's would probibly be the best solution to the current problems we have with illegal immigration.

A program which would allow workers to work and live in the United States.
But would not allow the workers to immigrate their families or have them live in the US,
Nor could they ever apply for permanent residence in the US or citizenship.



As in Germany, it will be impossible to remove "guest workers" once enough time has elapsed.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 8:43:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hylton:
Guest Worker Program or as I call it Amnesty for criminals, nothing more just in invitation for more illegal’s to break the law, that’s all.




I agree 100% with you. Your quote is simple and to the point about what is really going on. If only our criminal President understood this also.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 8:47:42 AM EDT
The problem is that there are almost 30 million illegals in this country. It has become logistically impossible to deport them all. We have let a cat scratch become gangrene. The question is what do we do now?
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:35:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:
The problem is that there are almost 30 million illegals in this country. It has become logistically impossible to deport them all. We have let a cat scratch become gangrene. The question is what do we do now?



It isn't "logistically impossible", it is pretty easy to deport them all.

Build a wall on the borders, southern border first.
Cut out all entitlements to illegal aliens (education, healthcare, welfare, etc)
Make it a felony with a big fine for anyone here to employ illegal aliens or help them.
No bank loans, drivers licenses, etc for illegal aliens.
Anyone who reports incidents of companies/business hiring illegals gets a reward after it is found to be true.
State and Local agencies can arrest illegals.
Streamline the deportation process and run it around the clock.
Monetary incentives to arrest and deport illegals for states.
Illegal alines vehicles/money/etc confiscated if found in this country.
No more anchort babies: one parent must be a US citizen for the baby to become one.
Round them up and deport them.


Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:08:45 AM EDT
I think we need the people to pick our cabbage.

We need to be able to track them coming in and out etc.

I think its a good idea. Some one was worried that they would be come a "permentant" part of our society. Well - they already have! This way we can track the new ones comine in.

And with luck keep more of the bad ones out.

But any program will be moot if we dont shore up our borders. I dont blame any mexican for coming here. Land of opportunity with now real consquences for coming here illegally.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:32:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mister44:
I think we need the people to pick our cabbage.

We need to be able to track them coming in and out etc.

I think its a good idea. Some one was worried that they would be come a "permentant" part of our society. Well - they already have! This way we can track the new ones comine in.

And with luck keep more of the bad ones out.

But any program will be moot if we dont shore up our borders. I dont blame any mexican for coming here. Land of opportunity with now real consquences for coming here illegally.



I agree for the most part. I live in Texas and I am royally pissed off with all the illegals screwing things up. Right now they cost each Texan (per capita) $765 per year. When we took on the evacuees from New Orleans, and those that needed hospital care coudn't get a hospital bed because the hospitals were full of ILLEGALS. Bush made an address today and he strongly stated that the guest worker proposal IS NOT AMNESTY! Get it through your thick skulls Remember, he was Govenor of TEXAS and did a damn fine job. He knows what he is doing. BTW, there are not 30 million, more like 12 million and about 2 million are in prison. Border control is key, second, enforcement of immigartion laws, and third a worker program. With the worker program we will know who they are and where they work. They need to leave their families in Mexico; otherwisw they will start having kids so the can become citizens. I believe if Juan gets hurt in a combine accident, the Mexican government should pay for health care, since Juan will be sending most of his money South. I have several Mexican-American friends, who would rather be called Americans, and they agree with my views.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:38:19 AM EDT
I am not in favor of amnesty but I am in favor of a big guest worker program, and the guests should be able to become citizens after some time. With a guest worker program we can choose who the guests are, that means we can get higher skill people rather than the people who are so desparate they'll cross the desert without water to get a job. I can also see there being a fee to apply to be a guest worker, and opening the pool to most countries. I don't see why I have to hire a Mexican who only speaks Spanish when I can hire a Sri Lankan who speaks English. Right now we have the worst of all possible worlds.

Economic growth comes from two things: growth of the labor force and growth of the capital pool. For our economy to grow we need more workers.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:42:29 AM EDT
I don't like the "Guest Worker" program, but I am willing to make this a first step. If we get them documented and export all the "undocumented" workers, it will be a start.

If they are documented, they have to get medical insurance, pay taxes etc.

I don't like the "Guest Worker" system but it has to be better than the wink, wink, nudge, nudge program they use now.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:44:07 AM EDT
"Guests" should be invited, not invite themselves. Send all the illegals back over the border and we need some guest workers, hire blond wimmin from Sweden
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:51:40 AM EDT
This is the beginning of the 2nd Mexican War.

They are not immigrants wanting to become Americans -They want to annex the southwest for Mexico.

They use the word "racist" and "bigot" on anyone who opposes this invasion ,because they have seen how effective others have used this term on white politicians.
Those terms are the 'kiss of death' to white politicians.

Something like 58% of Mexicans in America think the southwestern states belongs to Mexico.
The constant waves of illegals coming across our southern border is encouraged by Mexican goverment.

It's an invasion pure and simple.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 12:06:38 PM EDT
Who pays their medical bills? All their babies are instant citizens who can then sponsor the citizenship of the entire extended family. Free schooling for the kids. Medicare and Social Security for the grandparents.

If the cost of govenment health care, schools, police, courts, medicaid, medicare, social security etc. is factored in illegals are NO BENEFIT WHATSOEVER TO THIS COUNTRY!

Who does all the work Australians, and every friggen other first world country, "won't do"?

The SLAVE WAGES you POS "employers" pay them isn't what is bringing them. The TAXPAYER FUNDED programs the middle class pays for is what is attracting them.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 12:09:49 PM EDT
"Guest Worker" program = I give up let them stay.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 12:15:01 PM EDT
Call your legislators.

http://www.capwiz.com/nra/dbq/officials/

Current phone numbers for you politicians.

The only thing you'd have to do to kill the so-called "guest worker" program is require the employer to cover medical costs the "guest" and their family incur while in the US. Add that, and the whole thing falls to pieces. Without taxpayers subsidizing illegals, no employer would want them.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 12:21:07 PM EDT
Who Left the Door Open?
Time Magazine, September 20, 2004

A “must read,” this comprehensive Time Magazine report (unusually truthful and honest for the mainstream media), looks at the damage and dangers from illegal immigration, and the reasons the U.S. fails to protect itself.

Some highlights:

• Enforcement: Illegals crossing U.S. borders are not subjected to any of the searches and background checks airports visitors are. Before long, many obtain phony identification papers to mask their unlawful presence. The highest levels of the U.S. and Mexican governments have orchestrated a perverse reality as Mexico sends its poor north to take jobs illegally, and the U.S. arrests just enough to create the illusion that it is enforcing immigration laws, while allowing most to get through. Many illegals even have their jobs lined up before they leave Mexico. Corporate managers place orders with smugglers for a specific number of illegal workers, and are rarely, if ever, punished for it. Thanks to significant resistance from politicians, corporations and special interest groups, the government’s employer-sanctions program has all but disappeared. From 1992 to 2002, arrests on job sites declined 94%, and fines for immigration law violations plunged 99%.
• Borders / Terrorism: An estimated 3 million illegal aliens will come into the U.S. in 2004 – roughly 3 times the number of legal immigrants. An estimated 190,000 illegals have come from countries other than Mexico and have melted into the U.S. population so far in 2004, including from Middle East nations with large populations hostile to the U.S. Law-enforcement authorities believe the mass movement of illegals offers the perfect cover for terrorists seeking to enter the U.S., especially since tighter controls have been imposed at airports.
• Politicians: Politicians dodge the issue, even though public-opinion polls show that Americans overwhelmingly favor a crackdown on illegal immigration. Many big companies aggressively fend off the enforcement of laws that would shut down their supply of illegal workers. Politicians of both parties rely heavily on the donations from big businesses, which unfortunately favors cheap illegal labor.
• Costs / Crime: Illegal immigration holds down the pay of American workers, rewards illegals and the businesses hiring them, and breeds resentment among citizens who can't understand why illegal aliens receive government-funded health care, education benefits and subsidized housing. Community hospitals might be forced to shut down due to growing deficits from treating increasing numbers of illegal aliens. Smugglers use fleets of stolen cars, resulting in Arizona ranking first nationwide in cars stolen per capita. Local police explain the financial ripple effect from illegals under arrest – they can't make bond and thus spend more time in jail, they get a public defender, and are entitled to treatment for health problems, all at taxpayer expense. Open borders allow illegals to come into the country, commit crimes and return home with little fear of arrest or punishment. The U.S. Border Patrol stops literally thousands crossing into the country illegally with U.S. criminal records, whom returned to Mexico and were trying to re-enter the U.S. Of 400,000 illegal aliens ordered to be deported, 80,000 have criminal records. Unfortunately, the Homeland Security Dept. does not know their whereabouts, including those from countries that support terrorism.
• Guestworker Plans: Announcements of President Bush’s proposed “guestworker” plan were widely interpreted in Mexico to mean that once Mexican citizens cross illegally into the U.S., they would be able to stay and eventually gain permanent residence, causing a massive increase in new border crossings.
• IDs: Mexico has actively pushed U.S. businesses and city and state governments to accept Mexican “matricula consular” cards as legal identification, allowing illegals to secure driver's licenses and other identification, and open bank accounts. Because of the exploding illegal population in the U.S., Mexicans sent a record $13 billion back home in 2003, the 3rd largest source of revenue in Mexico's economy.
• Environment: Near the border, migrants discard backpacks, plastic bags, trash and soiled clothes, and leave behind revolting mounds of personal refuse. They cut fences intended to hold in cattle and horses, and many cows that eat the plastic bags left behind die. The immigrants also steal vehicles and saddles, and poison dogs to quiet them. The illegal traffic is so heavy that some ranchers, because of the disruptions and noise, get very little sleep at night.
• Wages / Unemployment: Evidence suggests that it is low wage rates, not the type of job, that American workers reject. Managers testify that that they hired illegals because their corporations refused to pay wages that would let them attract American workers.




Link Posted: 3/27/2006 12:27:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:
I am not in favor of amnesty but I am in favor of a big guest worker program, and the guests should be able to become citizens after some time. With a guest worker program we can choose who the guests are, that means we can get higher skill people rather than the people who are so desparate they'll cross the desert without water to get a job. I can also see there being a fee to apply to be a guest worker, and opening the pool to most countries. I don't see why I have to hire a Mexican who only speaks Spanish when I can hire a Sri Lankan who speaks English. Right now we have the worst of all possible worlds.

Economic growth comes from two things: growth of the labor force and growth of the capital pool. For our economy to grow we need more workers.

GunLvr



What makes you, or anybody else so sure they even want citizenship? I see a lot of Mexican flags waving at these demonstrations.
Since by definition they're lawbreakers anyway, what makes you think they'd comply with any kind of "guest worker" program?

We have enough workers for our economy to grow, the problem is the depressed wages in so many areas of the workforce because of the illegals. All this hysteria about nobody being left to do the jobs of the Mexicans, I know for a fact in Central Illinois Americans detassle corn, I know that in Maine Americans roof houses, and in Nebraska Americans still work construction.

Link Posted: 3/27/2006 12:31:15 PM EDT
The first step in this process is to punish the living shit out of any employer who is caught utilizing illegal labor. $100K per head is a good start. The next step is to deport all of the illegals. The third step is to cease welfare. The fourth step is to utilize the inmate population and the welfarians in the unskilled labor positions, and in the general laborer positions (construction, etc.), you let the laws of supply and demand take over. Who gives a shit if things get more expensive because contractors are having to pay "above the table". You'll save at least some of it in the end via taxes.

The concept of a "chain gang" of welfarians who don't want to work, but are being forced to to make their way in life would start to eliminate the "I love my welfare mentality". Of course, the commerce that would evolve out of this would be great. The welfarians w/ kids would have the money to pay for day-care, etc.

Link Posted: 3/27/2006 12:33:26 PM EDT
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